[KINGS] Comments that don't warrant their own thread (Redux)

Warhawk

Warhawk

Give blood and save a life!
Staff member
#3,811
#3,811
QWERTYLICIOUS said:
I see your point, and what I actually meant was...That I'd much rather we take our chances at landing the #1 pick in order to get a generational draft pick should one be available than continuously being a middle of the pack roster with the upside of nothing more than a play-in team/1st round exit.
And, no, I am not advocating tanking until a generational pick enters the league. If we are able to stockpile on some high draft picks that yield us a deep playoff run, and we don't end up positioning ourselves to draft that generational draft pick, then that's fine. But positioning ourselves to draft high and rebuild the roster from the ground up is a helluva lot better, in my honest opinion, than trying to navigate a roster that's most likely going to be a play-in team at best, or a 1st round exit against either the #7 seed or the #8 seed.
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Sacramento was literally one of the worst teams in the league FOREVER over the past 40 years and got a grand total of ONE draft pick each at #1, #2, and #3. We got Pervis Ellison, Marvin Bagley, and Billy Owens out of those picks. :rolleyes:

You don't EVER bank on getting a #1 pick, especially with the odds the way they have them now. And, as mentioned previously, getting a high pick means nothing if there isn't that generational player to choose with it, or getting that pick wrong.

In fact, in the entire history of the Kings before Sacramento, we had four #1, four #2, and two #3 picks. And that's since 1948! Many of those years it was based strictly on record; I could understand tanking then.
 
hrdboild

hrdboild

Moloch in whom I dream Angels!
Staff member
#3,813
#3,813
Warhawk said:
Sacramento was literally one of the worst teams in the league FOREVER over the past 40 years and got a grand total of ONE draft pick each at #1, #2, and #3. We got Pervis Ellison, Marvin Bagley, and Billy Owens out of those picks. :rolleyes:

You don't EVER bank on getting a #1 pick, especially with the odds the way they have them now. And, as mentioned previously, getting a high pick means nothing if there isn't that generational player to choose with it, or getting that pick wrong.

In fact, in the entire history of the Kings before Sacramento, we had four #1, four #2, and two #3 picks. And that's since 1948! Many of those years it was based strictly on record; I could understand tanking then.
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I think most of us can give a long list of players who various Kings GMs could have taken with those mid to late lottery picks who developed into franchise players and All Stars so it's not like lottery luck guarantees you anything either. It's still an open question for me if all of those players we think of as draft failures were purely lacking in talent or motivation or if a lot of it was that they were not given the structure or leadership that would have pushed them toward successful NBA careers.
 
QWERTYLICIOUS

QWERTYLICIOUS

Starter
#3,815
#3,815
Warhawk said:
Sacramento was literally one of the worst teams in the league FOREVER over the past 40 years and got a grand total of ONE draft pick each at #1, #2, and #3. We got Pervis Ellison, Marvin Bagley, and Billy Owens out of those picks. :rolleyes:

You don't EVER bank on getting a #1 pick, especially with the odds the way they have them now. And, as mentioned previously, getting a high pick means nothing if there isn't that generational player to choose with it, or getting that pick wrong.

In fact, in the entire history of the Kings before Sacramento, we had four #1, four #2, and two #3 picks. And that's since 1948! Many of those years it was based strictly on record; I could understand tanking then.
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Allow me to clarify...I'm not necessarily saying that we should BANK on getting the number one pick. No, not at all, actually. What I am saying is that, instead of being a middle of the pack, play in tournament/1st round exit at best kind of a team for the foreseeable future, which I honestly believe we will be should we continue down the path we are currently on, I say we commit to a full on rebuild, start from the ground up, and properly utilize the draft, and what should amount to a good amount of high draft picks, in order to actually, and properly, construct our roster. Hopefully, during that time, lady luck is on our side, and yields us a #1 pick (or multiple #1 picks), and, hopefully, lady luck is on our side, and yields us a #1 pick during a year/draft when there is a "generational talent" available. I am, in no way, shape, or form, advocating completely gutting the roster and tanking until we strike gold and are able to draft a "generational talent". If we fully commit to a rebuild, and we play our cards the right way (no matter which hand we are dealt), for all we know, we may not have to wait to draft a "generational talent", and we may be able to draft a legitimate contender with middle to late lottery picks.
 
K

kingsfan101

Starter
#3,816
#3,816
QWERTYLICIOUS said:
Allow me to clarify...I'm not necessarily saying that we should BANK on getting the number one pick. No, not at all, actually. What I am saying is that, instead of being a middle of the pack, play in tournament/1st round exit at best kind of a team for the foreseeable future, which I honestly believe we will be should we continue down the path we are currently on, I say we commit to a full on rebuild, start from the ground up, and properly utilize the draft, and what should amount to a good amount of high draft picks, in order to actually, and properly, construct our roster. Hopefully, during that time, lady luck is on our side, and yields us a #1 pick (or multiple #1 picks), and, hopefully, lady luck is on our side, and yields us a #1 pick during a year/draft when there is a "generational talent" available. I am, in no way, shape, or form, advocating completely gutting the roster and tanking until we strike gold and are able to draft a "generational talent". If we fully commit to a rebuild, and we play our cards the right way (no matter which hand we are dealt), for all we know, we may not have to wait to draft a "generational talent", and we may be able to draft a legitimate contender with middle to late lottery picks.
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I can understand these sentiments, and might even rally behind them if I didn't fear a repeat of the last 15 years. That said, I have a few thoughts
  1. I seriously think we need to stop using the term rebuild. I understand the logic, but what exactly are we rebuilding from? I do agree that there is probably no easier/more fitting term, but this just irritates me out :)
  2. I don't think we need to continue being a middle of the pack team. Clearly, work needs to be done. With us likely losing our FRP this year, improvements will need to be found from within the current roster/trades.
  3. That said, many of our players are still young. Carter is a rookie, Keon, and even Keegan are still young. We can hope for some internal growth.
  4. We might be able to retain Jake. Unlikely, but not impossible. That gives us some much needed depth, size, and hustle at the wings.
  5. Much as some fans grate at Deebo, he is still playing at an excellent level. If he continues, and his contract nears the end, we might be able to send him to a team looking to make a jump, and get some useful assets.
The roster has had almost a complete overhaul over the last few years. Domas, I think, is the longest tenured player, just North of 3 years. Most of the core has been assembled in the last 2-3 years, including 40% of the starting roster just this year. We have to give it time to improve and show what it can do.

Given that a "rebuild" does not promise anything, I'm reluctant to do anything drastic. That said, I do acknowledge that the team's missing a star (or maybe 2 stars), that can will the team to a win at times. Domas is the closest we have. In my world, he is a sure shot all star, but can't argue with folks who vote Sengun or Davis over him. Still, we need at least one more star.

Hopefully, Keegan shows that he can step up. He has been good and consistent, but not a killer. The fact that we are structured the way we are, where he is asked to defer on offense to more established players, and has big defensive assignments doesn't help. However, if he wants to be a star, he has to step up.

Without that, the only hope is a trade. We are not a preferred destination for a disgruntled star looking to relocate, but now, we do have assets in terms of picks and young players to offer to a team if an opportunity presents itself. Moreover, we have enough good players that we won't have to gut our team to get a star. I would prefer this route.
 
Vinny Basketballerino

Vinny Basketballerino

Starter
#3,817
#3,817
QWERTYLICIOUS said:
I see your point, and what I actually meant was...That I'd much rather we take our chances at landing the #1 pick in order to get a generational draft pick should one be available than continuously being a middle of the pack roster with the upside of nothing more than a play-in team/1st round exit.
And, no, I am not advocating tanking until a generational pick enters the league. If we are able to stockpile on some high draft picks that yield us a deep playoff run, and we don't end up positioning ourselves to draft that generational draft pick, then that's fine. But positioning ourselves to draft high and rebuild the roster from the ground up is a helluva lot better, in my honest opinion, than trying to navigate a roster that's most likely going to be a play-in team at best, or a 1st round exit against either the #7 seed or the #8 seed.
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It's a valid opinion for sure. I just think we haven't seen the full upside of this current roster. Monte just had a fantastic trade deadline. I'd like to give this group another full year and training camp to see what they are capable of before deciding to blow it all up like that.
 
QWERTYLICIOUS

QWERTYLICIOUS

Starter
#3,820
#3,820
Vinny Basketballerino said:
It's a valid opinion for sure. I just think we haven't seen the full upside of this current roster. Monte just had a fantastic trade deadline. I'd like to give this group another full year and training camp to see what they are capable of before deciding to blow it all up like that.
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Giving this current roster another full year before deciding to blow it up is fine with me, as long as we either only give it a full year, or after this year, decide on a set timeline (i.e. another 2-3 years with this core) before we blow it up. My point is that if this current core is not going to be the one, I don't think it makes much sense to keep it in tack in hopes of finding pieces that we can plug and play with, as I believe that approach will only yield us a play-in or first round exit at best roster. But, if you're telling me that we should give the roster another year, and then we can talk about an overhaul, then sure, I'm game.
 
QWERTYLICIOUS

QWERTYLICIOUS

Starter
#3,821
#3,821
kingsfan101 said:
I can understand these sentiments, and might even rally behind them if I didn't fear a repeat of the last 15 years. That said, I have a few thoughts
  1. I seriously think we need to stop using the term rebuild. I understand the logic, but what exactly are we rebuilding from? I do agree that there is probably no easier/more fitting term, but this just irritates me out :)
  2. I don't think we need to continue being a middle of the pack team. Clearly, work needs to be done. With us likely losing our FRP this year, improvements will need to be found from within the current roster/trades.
  3. That said, many of our players are still young. Carter is a rookie, Keon, and even Keegan are still young. We can hope for some internal growth.
  4. We might be able to retain Jake. Unlikely, but not impossible. That gives us some much needed depth, size, and hustle at the wings.
  5. Much as some fans grate at Deebo, he is still playing at an excellent level. If he continues, and his contract nears the end, we might be able to send him to a team looking to make a jump, and get some useful assets.
The roster has had almost a complete overhaul over the last few years. Domas, I think, is the longest tenured player, just North of 3 years. Most of the core has been assembled in the last 2-3 years, including 40% of the starting roster just this year. We have to give it time to improve and show what it can do.

Given that a "rebuild" does not promise anything, I'm reluctant to do anything drastic. That said, I do acknowledge that the team's missing a star (or maybe 2 stars), that can will the team to a win at times. Domas is the closest we have. In my world, he is a sure shot all star, but can't argue with folks who vote Sengun or Davis over him. Still, we need at least one more star.

Hopefully, Keegan shows that he can step up. He has been good and consistent, but not a killer. The fact that we are structured the way we are, where he is asked to defer on offense to more established players, and has big defensive assignments doesn't help. However, if he wants to be a star, he has to step up.

Without that, the only hope is a trade. We are not a preferred destination for a disgruntled star looking to relocate, but now, we do have assets in terms of picks and young players to offer to a team if an opportunity presents itself. Moreover, we have enough good players that we won't have to gut our team to get a star. I would prefer this route.
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We're not going to get another superstar to agree to come here in a trade unless he sees a roster that excites him enough to want him to play alongside. Sure, we have a solid group of young guns (Keegan, Keon, and Carter), but I am not sure that either of them are the type of player that someone would look at and say, "You know what, send me to the small market of Sacramento, California and give me contract that's significantly lower than a contract I would be able to get if I go to a larger market like LA or Boston, or New York". I think we need to acquire additional young assets with great upside and potential in order for a seasoned veteran to say, "Yes, I will commit 3 or 5 years to help build Sacramento into a legitimate championship contender".

Not unless you find a Chris Webber clone, that is...:):):)
 
K

kingsfan101

Starter
#3,822
#3,822
QWERTYLICIOUS said:
We're not going to get another superstar to agree to come here in a trade unless he sees a roster that excites him enough to want him to play alongside. Sure, we have a solid group of young guns (Keegan, Keon, and Carter), but I am not sure that either of them are the type of player that someone would look at and say, "You know what, send me to the small market of Sacramento, California and give me contract that's significantly lower than a contract I would be able to get if I go to a larger market like LA or Boston, or New York". I think we need to acquire additional young assets with great upside and potential in order for a seasoned veteran to say, "Yes, I will commit 3 or 5 years to help build Sacramento into a legitimate championship contender".

Not unless you find a Chris Webber clone, that is...:):):)
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Pretty much what I said. However, the alternate approach is to almost entirely gut the team, collect young guys and picks, and hope that we can pull an OKC. Might work. Might fail spectacularly.

I don't think I can survive a repeat of the last decade and a half.
 
SacTownKid

SacTownKid

Hall of Famer
#3,823
#3,823
sono said:
Watching him made me a fan of the Kings.
https://twitter.com/statuses/1901748297121075242
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Peja was just about 10 years too early. Imagine this dude now? He was already an MVP candidate one year, he'd be a 10 time all star now. Back then the game required too much physicality which he struggled with. Actually building around Bibby, Peja, and Brad was about 10 years too early. That would probably be a perfect top 3 for the modern game.
 
Vinny Basketballerino

Vinny Basketballerino

Starter
#3,824
#3,824
I'm in North Kosovo right now for work in the Serb-controlled part of Mitrovica in a small restaurant/bar/hotel and basketball is on the TV. Vezenkov and his Olympiacos vs. Red Star. Red Star just won. Fun little window into life in a recently tense part of the world, gathered around a sport that, given the backdrop of recent events here, clearly means more to them than it sometimes does to celebrity fans in LA dropping in on a game for the third quarter to get the cameo shot.
 
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kingsboi

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#3,826
#3,826
Vinny Basketballerino said:
I'm in North Kosovo right now for work in the Serb-controlled part of Mitrovica in a small restaurant/bar/hotel and basketball is on the TV. Vezenkov and his Olympiacos vs. Red Star. Red Star just won. Fun little window into life in a recently tense part of the world, gathered around a sport that, given the backdrop of recent events here, clearly means more to them than it sometimes does to celebrity fans in LA dropping in on a game for the third quarter to get the cameo shot.
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Serbs fandom for Red Star is about as intense as it gets, both in basketball and soccer
 
fansinceday1

fansinceday1

Starter
#3,827
#3,827
Why has the YouTube algorithm started dropping YouTube shorts into my “should watch” of Willie Caulley Stein complaining about how the kings did him wrong the last year he was here?
I can’t think of another kings player I was so glad to finally be rid of!
 
fansinceday1

fansinceday1

Starter
#3,831
#3,831
Listening to Sam amick beating around the bush after Carmichael Dave asked him if there really is fire where the vlade coming back smoke has already been seen made me sick.
Amick just said what was old is new again and that Vivek kinda telegraphs what he thinking and who’s got his ear by who’s sitting in the seats next to him courtside.

How can a smart guy like Vivek really be doing this?
 
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chief bromden

chief bromden

Starter
#3,832
#3,832
fansinceday1 said:
Listening to Sam amick beating around the bush after Carmichael Dave asked him if there really is fire where the vlade coming back smoke has already been seen made me sick.
Amick just said what was old is new again and that Vivek kinda telegraphs what he thinking by who’s sitting in the seats next to him courtside.
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When I saw Vlade sitting next to him at a road game recently, it made me pause and think that he's back in the fold more than I'd like to believe.
 
Tetsujin

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
#3,833
#3,833
fansinceday1 said:
Listening to Sam amick beating around the bush after Carmichael Dave asked him if there really is fire where the vlade coming back smoke has already been seen made me sick.
Amick just said what was old is new again and that Vivek kinda telegraphs what he thinking and who’s got his ear by who’s sitting in the seats next to him courtside.

How can a smart guy like Vivek really be doing this?
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(Vlade has already been back in the organization for two years)
 
fansinceday1

fansinceday1

Starter
#3,834
#3,834
chief bromden said:
When I saw Vlade sitting next to him at a road game recently, it made me pause and think that he's back in the fold more than I'd like to believe.
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Tetsujin said:
(Vlade has already been back in the organization for two years)
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there’s a big difference between floating around, having the owners ear and “advising” vs. being named the next kings GM or asst GM.
Listening to the host of the insiders on 1320 ask Ham, there’s not really a chance that Vlade could be named GM again is there? Ham just answered I’d like to think not but with Vivek never say never. Regardless of what you think of ham, he’s right.

There’s no way…….

That would just confirm what a clown show this franchise is.
 
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