We're all kings fans...
Nothing I've said should be taken as an insult.
You along with other two true kings fans.
I love all of you guys like family. Even if you're ***holes from time to time.
[Game] Kings @ Clippers - 10/31 - 7:30 PT, 10:30 ET
- Thread starter VF21
- Start date
We're all kings fans...
Nothing I've said should be taken as an insult.
You along with other two true kings fans.
I love all of you guys like family. Even if you're ***holes from time to time.
People keep claiming we should trade him. No one has said for who... do we mortgage another future 1st swap away? Or have we already done that too much?
Seriously, if you guys think trading him is best instead of developing him, who do you suggest we trade for?
People blaming Ben for Reddick's scoring obviously did not watch the game. Ben played good on D last night.
If you guys forgot, SGs in the west are : JJ Reddick, Klay Thompson, James Harden, Brandon Knight, and CJ McCollum.
Seriously, if you guys think trading him is best instead of developing him, who do you suggest we trade for?
People blaming Ben for Reddick's scoring obviously did not watch the game. Ben played good on D last night.
If you guys forgot, SGs in the west are : JJ Reddick, Klay Thompson, James Harden, Brandon Knight, and CJ McCollum.
fansinceday1
Starter
I'll tell you guys one thing, This mcLemore discussion is preferable to the arguing about boogie.
Chubbs
Starter
I don't want to pee you off too much.We're all kings fans...
Nothing I've said should be taken as an insult.
You along with other two true kings fans.
I love all of you guys like family. Even if you're ***holes from time to time.
Your seats are really really nice at the new arena.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
If Ben sucks then trading him is not mortgaging any future.
The idea that trading ANY young guy no matter how terrible is "mortgaging the future" is ridiculous. I could make a strong argument that trading Ben for a 32 yr old would be making for a BRIGHTER future, if that 32yr old could help us break through and start making the playoffs. In 2-3 years when the 32 yr old is starting to slow, we are all of a sudden a desirable free agency market for a good MLE level guy of a Courtney Lee type style.
Kingster
Hall of Famer
I disagree on this. The only exceptional playmaker in the starting unit is Rondo. We definitely need more playmaking; a quick look at the TOs is proof positive. That said, Karl obviously thinks that it's not who you start with, but who you end with that matters.
I was actually planning on doing some sort of raffle for local KF's for a game or two next season. Downside for you, slim and SD is that you'd have to sit with me. lol
Livinthedream
All-Star
I know you smell blood in the water Brick, but I haven't conceded anything. I want to wait for that 20 game mark like I said before to see what we have as a team and how it all wotks together.
KingsFanGER
Starter
Well there is only one ball to play with and Ben is pretty much a bystander with the starters right now. And not because he is useless or can't play, but because our game is centered around Rondo, Cuz and Gay with Willie working as a screener and occasional finisher.
Well Ben being a better ball handler and playmaker would help, but still he would have only a marginal role on offense.
What we need from him is effort and good D. And he gave us excactly this last night. So basically no need to complain about Ben.
And for Ben alone you won't net a seasoned veteran, that helps right away. You would get a flawed veteran or a young talent with upside.
I said it again and again - nobody would argue a Ben trade for someone like Shumpert or Fournier, but this ain't happening.
Haha.....he's biased and your not? Boggles the mind.
CVKingsfan
Bench
I don’t know how I feel about Ben, but I look forward to change of any kind for no other reason than to prevent every game thread turning into a lengthy and heated debate about McLemore (however, as has previously been mentioned, the debate will continue only with a new name…)
Here is something I can agree with:
“I do not fear the Los Angeles Clippers. That's two games now where the Kings haven't been outclassed because of talent, but because of execution and decision-making. And the Clippers are one of the five best teams in the NBA. It’s a very welcome feeling following years of playing the outmatched underdog getting by with scrap.”
http://www.sactownroyalty.com/2015/10/31/9653204/kings-109-clippers-114-kings-lose-a-nailbiter
Here is something I can agree with:
“I do not fear the Los Angeles Clippers. That's two games now where the Kings haven't been outclassed because of talent, but because of execution and decision-making. And the Clippers are one of the five best teams in the NBA. It’s a very welcome feeling following years of playing the outmatched underdog getting by with scrap.”
http://www.sactownroyalty.com/2015/10/31/9653204/kings-109-clippers-114-kings-lose-a-nailbiter
KingsFanGER
Starter
I can agree with it too, but none of the poor decisions were made by Ben McLemore. In fact it was Marco, who dribbled the ball off his knee and a general misscommunication to hack a Jordan with under 2 minutes to go.
For some reason some people are looking for Ben as a scapegoat and I don't understand it.
rainmaker
Hall of Famer
We need a good enough 2 to where Karl isn't resorting to this Rondo/DC/Belli/Rudy small ball crap.
That's the bigger picture issue beyond Ben vs our SG options. Because Karl has little confidence in Ben, he's running out Rondo/DC for large chunks of the game, but because we lack shooting if going Rondo/DC/Rudy and WCS/Kosta as one of the bigs, he's then resorting to putting Belli out there with Rondo/DC. But we need Rudy out there, so what we end up with is a small ball unit with him at the 4 where while it can score, is giving up as much if not more on the glass and defensively.
When you have Kofa/Willie getting time on the court with Rondo, it puts a premium on our SG to hit shots or at least be respected. My guess is swapping Ben for Anderson still sees us resorting to too much small ball crap as it's not enough of an improvement.
Ben's defense isn't the issue, it's the lack of shooting and overall threat from him is forcing us to go small which hurts our front court defense, hence why Griffin killed us twice in a week. And while we could go with DC/Belli or Rondo/Belli more often, Karl apparently thinks DC and Rondo are too good to keep on the bench. Really, we need a PG/SG combo which is good enough that Rondo/DC aren't considered the better option, forcing us to go small.
That's the bigger picture issue beyond Ben vs our SG options. Because Karl has little confidence in Ben, he's running out Rondo/DC for large chunks of the game, but because we lack shooting if going Rondo/DC/Rudy and WCS/Kosta as one of the bigs, he's then resorting to putting Belli out there with Rondo/DC. But we need Rudy out there, so what we end up with is a small ball unit with him at the 4 where while it can score, is giving up as much if not more on the glass and defensively.
When you have Kofa/Willie getting time on the court with Rondo, it puts a premium on our SG to hit shots or at least be respected. My guess is swapping Ben for Anderson still sees us resorting to too much small ball crap as it's not enough of an improvement.
Ben's defense isn't the issue, it's the lack of shooting and overall threat from him is forcing us to go small which hurts our front court defense, hence why Griffin killed us twice in a week. And while we could go with DC/Belli or Rondo/Belli more often, Karl apparently thinks DC and Rondo are too good to keep on the bench. Really, we need a PG/SG combo which is good enough that Rondo/DC aren't considered the better option, forcing us to go small.
Brick, my question is who do you trade Ben for? A good defender and a good shooter is not something we could immediately receive in a trade straight up for Ben.
Who do you suggest we trade for? Realistically?
Chubbs
Starter
All humans have bias. I never claimed I didn't.
I'm not saying Ben is great or even good. I'm simply not blaming him for things he didn't do.
Entity
Hall of Famer
Exactly. Bellineli starting hurts our bench and he doesn't get the production he has been getting when on court with rondo, gay, cousins
Most of you pro-Ben guys keep going back to the "not" pro-Ben guys saying he is a scapegoat. Not really that at all. I think it comes down to the anti-guys think he should sit. We know what he's going to give you at this point. Karl has already come out and said that James Anderson is his best option as a perimeter defender. That is a fact. If that's the case, then this is Ben's opportunity to show he can be more and because he's our1st round pick from a few years back......he's getting first crack. I think many are of the opinion that what he brings is not worth trying to bank on his "potential".
As far as the game last night, of course, he's not the reason we lost....but he sure as **** isn't the reason we got out to a 12 point lead. His play, when he's in there, speaks for itself and its not very good.
As far as the game last night, of course, he's not the reason we lost....but he sure as **** isn't the reason we got out to a 12 point lead. His play, when he's in there, speaks for itself and its not very good.
I'm not either blaming him either.
Some good analysis....at some point, if Karl is unhappy with Ben's production, which I assume he's not, then Anderson is going to get his shot. And I think once that happens, there is no recovery for Ben mentally if everything we read on Ben is correct....meaning he's got a problem with maintaining confidence. This being Ben's 3rd year, if he's still having confidence issues, it's a little troubling...even if he's only 22.
I'm for giving Anderson an opportunity if Ben maintains current production.....hell, I'd give an opportunity to Curry if it means improving the teams on court production.
Chubbs
Starter
It's a fact Karl said that Anderson is the best perimeter defender or a fact that he actually is?
If Karl said that then I guess we see how much he values defense.
If Ben was in when they got a 12 point lead then why exactly does he get zero credit for that? I don't understand how that works.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
I agree! It's time for the nonsense to end. McLemore either has to step up, or sit down. I've been a big supporter of his, but as I've stated countless times, he was exactly the same player at Kansas. I could make plenty of excuses for Ben as to why he plays the way he does, but the bottom line is, it doesn't matter. We are now trying to win games, and Ben isn't contributing to that. Someone commented that our defense took a bad turn when he went to the bench in the first quarter. Well, he lost Redick twice, and fell down once trying to chase him around the court. He slipped and fell down twice the night before. He might want to check out some different tennies.
If were going to tout his defense as a reason to keep starting him, then I could make a better case for Anderson, who is better defender than Ben, and taller. He can legitimately play some SF if you need him too. Gerald Wallace couldn't buy minutes under Adelman. How many minutes do you think McLemore would have gotten under Adleman with Belinelli sitting there? And yes, Belinelli is struggling with his shot right now, but despite that, he does a lot of other things to help the team. Plus, he has a track record, so you feel condident that his shot will return. Ben is the weak link in the starting lineup. Start Anderson or Belinelli, or make a trade to acquire a SG.
I still like Ben, but this isn't about liking or disliking a player. It's about winning. I agree that his potential is off the charts, but in the words again of Vince Lombardi, "When you say a player has a lot of potential, it means he hasn't done anything yet". It's time for Ben to do something!
KingsFanGER
Starter
Yes that must be the reason Karl gave him applause and a "good job Ben" after the first.
Well then...that settles it....lol
Sit for whom? Unlike @sdballer, I could give a rat's ass about his potential. But there's no better option. Starting Bellinelli diminishes Bellinelli's role, and hurts the bench's output, and starting Anderson is rearranging deck chairs. If we're not going to start him, we might as well trade him, it doesn't matter for who, or for what.
You should read the comments. People are saying Ben is terrible and have blamed him for not guarding Reddick well enough and letting him get 20pts. (Not true at all). Then some people are saying if Ben wasn't so bad, Belinelli and other guys shouldn't even Ben guarding Reddick in the 1st place. (Ignores how bad a Belinelli and the other guys D were, and someone blames it on Ben.) then there are people saying we need to trade Ben for a starting SG who won't give up 20pts to Reddick and play good defense. (None have said who we could trade for).
It sounds like a lot of scapegoating...
KingsFanGER
Starter
Well I think when Ben truly was that horrible in the first, Karl wouldn't do this right?
Just to be clear, I don't care much for his potential. It is only a factor to me if the person we replace him with (like Anderson) plays at about the same level now with no upside. That's where I don't really see the point.
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