Kings and free agency - part 2

[Gary]

i'm here. are you telling me we dumped all those assets for rondo & belinelli?

we already had 10m in capspace(rondo cost). belinelli costed roughly 6m and change. are you telling me we couldn't swing a smaller deal to free up to get beli without burning through all those assets?

What do you expect? We roll into 2015-2016 with the same basic players and expect to improve? Come on.. We HAD to clean house and everyone not named Cuz and Gay were on the block (I think think the reports were lies). We got rid of a stale loaf of bread in Thompson, We got rid of a bad contract in Landry, and we get rid of a shooter who cannot shoot. We let Williams sign with the Knicks as well...

So this was a major cleanup...

We got rid of four players who did NOTHING for us and replaced them with two who have been on winners in the past. Not to mention those two might have just pushed two starters to the bench which makes our bench a hell of a lot better at the same time...

So tell me.. Would you rather have Collison as the first PG off the bench or McCallum? Would you rather have Stauskas as your first SG off the bench or McLemore?

 

[hrdboild]

i'm here. are you telling me we dumped all those assets for rondo & belinelli?

we already had 10m in capspace(rondo cost). belinelli costed roughly 6m and change. are you telling me we couldn't swing a smaller deal to free up to get beli without burning through all those assets?

What assets though really? Landry and Thompson weren't assets. Both of those guys needed to go in order for us to do anything more than rearrange deck chairs this off-season. Stauskas was barely an asset -- we've replaced him with a veteran shooter who's ready to play a role this season that Stauskas might not be ready for until 3 years from now. That's great for Philly -- they're not even thinking about winning this year or next year and they picked up another young player basically for free. It was a serious problem for us though. We needed a veteran in that spot not another long-term project.

And the draft picks -- well, I fought hard for the logic of keeping this year's pick once it was obvious we were headed for the lottery yet again. We needed every asset we could stockpile for the playoff push next year. But even I will tell you we absolutely can't do that anymore. Not if we want to keep Cousins. If we've learned anything from the "Cousins/Karl" behind-the-scenes feud it's that the sand has all run out of the hourglass. The message is clear -- win now or else. If we're thinking about the draft at all in 2016 it will mean that Cousins is done as a Sacramento King. I didn't believe that 2 months ago, but I believe it now. And losing Cousins means starting over with 5 or 6 more sub-30 win seasons in a row just hoping we hit the lottery in a superstar year. Nobody here wants that. Whatever Vlade was going to do, he had to do it now and that meant dumping Carl and Thompson regardless of how many future picks it cost to do it. Now we have a roster that makes sense. We still need two bigs and a perimeter defender to complete it -- in the past we would have said "oh well, there's always next year". Because of that one trade that the media openly mocked, this year we still have cap space left to fill those spots.

 

[KingMilz]

that's a handy little find

that actually means we could do some crazy things like absorb Nene's $13mil ending contract, or help the Suns afford LMA by taking Markieff Morris and PJ Tucker off their hands, THEN go ahead and sign WCS, add Omri on the Room MLE, one or two rumored names on vet mins, and be ready to rumble.

YES YES YES a lockdown defender and 4 man with lethal mid range game I so hope the Suns get LMA.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

What do you expect? We roll into 2015-2016 with the same basic players and expect to improve? Come on.. We HAD to clean house and everyone not named Cuz and Gay were on the block (I think think the reports were lies). We got rid of a stale loaf of bread in Thompson, We got rid of a bad contract in Landry, and we get rid of a shooter who cannot shoot. We let Williams sign with the Knicks as well...

So this was a major cleanup...

We got rid of four players who did NOTHING for us and replaced them with two who have been on winners in the past. Not to mention those two might have just pushed two starters to the bench which makes our bench a hell of a lot better at the same time...

So tell me.. Would you rather have Collison as the first PG off the bench or McCallum? Would you rather have Stauskas as your first SG off the bench or McLemore?

we 'let' the big fish get away. sucks on us.

so your telling me we couldn't have swung a s&t deal for rondo with dallas? or a s&t with the spurs? or did a 3 way trade with a team w/ capspace to get what we wanted.

there is still the rest of the offseason to impress me with that salary dump.

 

[Rockmeister]

Dang, Dallas is targeting everyone.

 

[Blastoff]

so your telling me we couldn't have swung a s&t deal for rondo with dallas? or a s&t with the spurs? or did a 3 way trade with a team w/ capspace to get what we wanted.

Why would either of those teams do a deal like that, especially Dallas? They literally kicked Rondo off the team in the playoffs, now you think they're gonna take on JT and/or Landry's bad (Landry's), non-expiring (both) contracts to help him go to the only place that was going to sign him anyways? We gave up a lot because the whole league knows we've been trying to get rid of JT for 3 years, and Landry for almost a year. Beggars can't be choosers.

 

[IfAt1st]

How the other side sounds:

"But, we could have instead hornswaggled some other team and gotten them to help us out!"
"But, we could have left things up to chance, instead of Vlade taking things into his own hands and MAKING something happen!"
"But, we could have relied on other GM's charity and left WCS on the board for them and then we coulda got him 10+ pick." <-- This one's extra hilarious, because PDA may well have gotten Denver to pick WCS just to spite us.

Really, this critiquing of the trade based on some comparison to a unlikely alternate hypothetical is getting tired.
Agents and other GM's really don't seem to like us right now, so it's not realistic or fair to be comparing what Vlade's done to some best-case trade/move that radically favors the Kings that other teams will not do.

 

[ockingsfan]

Kingsa apparently talking with Kostas Koufos, Lou Williams, Miroslav Radujica a 7ft 250 Serb whose 27 yr, Quincy Acy (?), Lou Williams, Jeremy Lin and possibly Reggie Jackson. Likely more but those I confirmed this afternoon and early evening.

My head hurts

You forgot josh smith.

I think josh smith would be a good fit as a third option next to dmc and gay.

 

[Livinthedream]

How the other side sounds:

"But, we could have instead hornswaggled some other team and gotten them to help us out!"
"But, we could have left things up to chance, instead of Vlade taking things into his own hands and MAKING something happen!"
"But, we could have relied on other GM's charity and left WCS on the board for them and then we coulda got him 10+ pick." <-- This one's extra hilarious, because PDA may well have gotten Denver to pick WCS just to spite us.

Really, this critiquing of the trade based on some comparison to a unlikely alternate hypothetical is getting tired.
Agents and other GM's really don't seem to like us right now, so it's not realistic or fair to be comparing what Vlade's done to some best-case trade/move that radically favors the Kings that other teams will not do.

What other side are you talking about?

 

[Amit149]

What other side are you talking about?

You know- the national media, NBA analysts, former front office guys- and all of the other guys apparently not smart enough to know what the average KF poster knows...

 

[Livinthedream]

You know- the national media, NBA analysts, former front office guys- and all of the other guys apparently not smart enough to know what the average KF poster knows...

Yeah. I support my team and I want to see them do well. I'm waiting to see what we do with our remaining cap space.

In reality, we've signed a backup SG (I like the signing) who shot 37% from 3 last year and doesn't play D. Ben shot 36% for reference. We signed a PG who is only here for a year and we don't know if he's the same player he was pre-knee injury. And we're still short a quality big.

We added backcourt depth, but we can't claim victory just yet. I'm still in wait and see mode. In reality, I'm in wait and see 2-3 years from now when all these contracts end and draft rights become due.

Edit: before someone says I'm worried about the future and not winning now, I don't think we've done enough now to make me think we're going to be more than average. So I'm trying to find how we become better than average later.

 

[The_Jamal]

As of Friday evening 7pm my brain is fried, diced and sliced following this FA stuff and the Kings. So here is my FA update related to Kings:

GONE
Matthews signing with Mavs
Tobias Harris to sign with Magic 6/$64M
Patrick Beverley to sign with Rockets 4/$25M
Jared Dudley to sign back east
Our Derrick Williams signing with Knicks for 2/$10!!!

Kings to sign:
Rondo for 1/$9M
Belinelli 6-5 3-pt shooter for 3/$19M
James Anderson 6-6 SG multi-year but no $$ known yet

Kingsa apparently talking with Kostas Koufos, Lou Williams, Miroslav Radujica a 7ft 250 Serb whose 27 yr, Quincy Acy (?), Lou Williams, Jeremy Lin and possibly Reggie Jackson. Likely more but those I confirmed this afternoon and early evening.

My head hurts

Don't think we'll be on a PG. Backcourt rotation is pretty much set with Rondo, DC, Ben, Beli. Unless we consider Beli a SF, then Lou Will would make a lot of sense.

Koufos is just waiting to be stolen for a 3yr 20mil sort of deal. There's really no one left with money that can give him the minutes/deal we can.

 

[peacelate]

You know- the national media, NBA analysts, former front office guys- and all of the other guys apparently not smart enough to know what the average KF poster knows...

So what other deals were out there that the rest of the world knows that Vlade didn't know about?

 

[Amit149]

So what other deals were out there that the rest of the world knows that Vlade didn't know about?

By that logic there was never a bad GM or a bad trade in the NBA...

I have a problem with dismissing every criticism from the outside (and the inside) by saying that they don't know nothing... that is what Lakers fans do- and we laugh at Lakers fans.

Nothing against Vlade- just think that it's ridiculous and extremely arrogant to ignore the views of nearly every national media/analyst, some with front office experience, just cause you don't like what they are saying.

 

[pshn80]

What do you expect? We roll into 2015-2016 with the same basic players and expect to improve? Come on.. We HAD to clean house and everyone not named Cuz and Gay were on the block (I think think the reports were lies). We got rid of a stale loaf of bread in Thompson, We got rid of a bad contract in Landry, and we get rid of a shooter who cannot shoot. We let Williams sign with the Knicks as well...

So this was a major cleanup...

We got rid of four players who did NOTHING for us and replaced them with two who have been on winners in the past. Not to mention those two might have just pushed two starters to the bench which makes our bench a hell of a lot better at the same time...

So tell me.. Would you rather have Collison as the first PG off the bench or McCallum? Would you rather have Stauskas as your first SG off the bench or McLemore?

Four players who did nothing for us? Let's not go over the top. JT did lots for us over a lot of years. I don't mind him going in this big change, after all he was part of the value that made this work but don't diss him on my watch.

 

[peacelate]

By that logic there was never a bad GM or a bad trade in the NBA...

I have a problem with dismissing every criticism from the outside (and the inside) by saying that they don't know nothing... that is what Lakers fans do- and we laugh at Lakers fans.

Nothing against Vlade- just think that it's ridiculous and extremely arrogant to ignore the views of nearly every national media/analyst some with front office experience just cause you don't like what they are saying.

It's funny that the media outside of Sacramento thinks the Kings could have given up less to get this deal done. The Kings have been trying to get rid of Thompson for several years now and no teams wanted him. That's his value. Landry is an undersized PF who is piling up injuries on the wrong side of 30. Apparently no one outside of Sacramento watched Stauskas' rookie season.

 

[Chubbs]

By that logic there was never a bad GM or a bad trade in the NBA...

I have a problem with dismissing every criticism from the outside (and the inside) by saying that they don't know nothing... that is what Lakers fans do- and we laugh at Lakers fans.

Nothing against Vlade- just think that it's ridiculous and extremely arrogant to ignore the views of nearly every national media/analyst, some with front office experience, just cause you don't like what they are saying.

Should I cry about it? I mean, who cares what anyone thinks..

Think for yourself

 

[Blastoff]

Nothing against Vlade- just think that it's ridiculous and extremely arrogant to ignore the views of nearly every national media/analyst, some with front office experience, just cause you don't like what they are saying.

No one here is ignorant on either side. However, the national media is judging these transactions on face value, which to someone who usually covers large market teams these moves are over-priced and dicey. They don't bother to consider these moves don't happen in a vacuum, and that the Kings are in a situation where getting a balanced trade is all but impossible. They have to overpay and overreach to accomplish any meaningful roster turnover this summer--which was no surprise to ANYONE, yet they forget that when the Kings pull the trigger. The bulk of the national audience will forget about their take a year from now if the Kings are winning.

I have yet to read an alternative proposed by these critical writers that would have the Kings in a better position.

 

[Amit149]

It's funny that the media outside of Sacramento thinks the Kings could have given up less to get this deal done. The Kings have been trying to get rid of Thompson for several years now and no teams wanted him. That's his value. Landry is an undersized PF who is piling up injuries on the wrong side of 30. Apparently no one outside of Sacramento watched Stauskas' rookie season.

No man- it's not funny, what's funny is that you think that you (or me) is so much more knowledgeable about an NBA trade than people who do this for a living with years of experience.

You can disagree with them, you can make counter-arguments, but calling them stupid and saying things like "Apparently no one outside of Sacramento watched Stauskas' rookie season"- that's arrogant and I'm honestly not sure where is that coming from... some people who post here didn't have a full concept of what a "salary dunp" is or what the draft picks/pick swaps we gave really means- and yet they were quick to call BS on everyone who criticized it... that I have a problem with..

Should I cry about it? I mean, who cares what anyone thinks..

Think for yourself

Think for yourself? when the trade was made most guys who posted thought we are getting back Saric and maybe giving up a 2nd rounder... some said the deal isn't good but they were pushed back in-line to the popular KF opinion, that's not thinking for yourself...

No one here is ignorant on either side. However, the national media is judging these transactions on face value, which to someone who usually covers large market teams these moves are over-priced and dicey. They don't bother to consider these moves don't happen in a vacuum, and that the Kings are in a situation where getting a balanced trade is all but impossible. They have to overpay and overreach to accomplish any meaningful roster turnover this summer--which was no surprise to ANYONE, yet they forget that when the Kings pull the trigger. The bulk of the national audience will forget about their take a year from now if the Kings are winning.

I have yet to read an alternative proposed by these critical writers that would have the Kings in a better position.

That's actually a good point, but a lot of writers does adress that and there were alternatives suggested by writers that would have left us at almost the same position we are today without losing assets (you can argue about the validity of this offers)...

But I'm not complaining about the trade- I'm complaining about that people here can't stand people that don't think happy thoughts about it.

 

[Chubbs]

No man- it's not funny, what's funny is that you think that you (or me) is so much more knowledgeable about an NBA trade than people who do this for a living with years of experience.

You can disagree with them, you can make counter-arguments, but calling them stupid and saying things like "Apparently no one outside of Sacramento watched Stauskas' rookie season"- that's arrogant and I'm honestly not sure where is that coming from... some people who post here didn't have a full concept of what a "salary dunp" is or what the draft picks/pick swaps we gave really means- and yet they were quick to call BS on everyone who criticized it... that I have a problem with..



Think for yourself? when the trade was made most guys who posted thought we are getting back Saric and maybe giving up a 2nd rounder... some said the deal isn't good but they were pushed back in-line to the popular KF opinion, that's not thinking for yourself...



That's actually a good point, but a lot of writers does adress that and there were alternatives suggested by writers that would have left us at almost the same position we are today without losing assets...

But I'm not complaining about the trade- I'm complaining about that people here can't stand people that don't think happy thoughts about it

Then go somewhere else.

This isn't complicated.

I mean, if you want to hear the national media rip this team a new one, go for it. If you want a more nuanced look at the Kings stay here.

No one is really gonna give two craps either way.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

It's funny that the media outside of Sacramento thinks the Kings could have given up less to get this deal done. The Kings have been trying to get rid of Thompson for several years now and no teams wanted him. That's his value. Landry is an undersized PF who is piling up injuries on the wrong side of 30. Apparently no one outside of Sacramento watched Stauskas' rookie season.

This is not true. There have been teams that wanted Thompson. The reason why we hadn't "been able" to trade him before was because we wanted stuff back for him, and nobody was willing to give anything resembling fair value. We could have traded Thompson any time over the last few years, had we ever been willing to say, "We want rid of him at all costs; we'll literally take any deal!", but we weren't willing to do that. Until now. Not surprisingly, as soon as we hired a GM who was willing to say, "We'll take anything, or nothing at all!", we were able to find a trade partner immediately.

Funny how that works: tell the league, "We'll settle for pennies on the dollar," and look how fast "untradeable" players get moved.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Then go somewhere else.

This isn't complicated.

Uh, no.

This is a homer-friendly message board. This is not a homer-exclusive message board. Kings Fans are entitled to not think that this trade was "THEBESTTHINGEVAR~!". without being told to leave.

 

[Amit149]

Then go somewhere else.

This isn't complicated.

I mean, if you want to hear the national media rip this team a new one, go for it. If you want a more nuanced look at the Kings stay here.

No one is really gonna give two poopoos either way.

My point exactly...

 

[Blastoff]

That's actually a good point, but a lot of writers does adress that and there were alternatives suggested by writers that would have left us at almost the same position we are today without losing assets (you can argue about the validity of this offers)...
.

Fair enough, I should have further qualified that with "plausible alternatives." It gets back to them ignoring, at certain times, that the Kings will have issues getting any kind of value due to their beaten image before the FA period even started. They (and we) also don't know if some better alternatives were floated and shot down, and we ended up on plan B or C.

 

[peacelate]

This is not true. There have been teams that wanted Thompson. The reason why we hadn't "been able" to trade him before was because we wanted stuff back for him, and nobody was willing to give anything resembling fair value. We could have traded Thompson any time over the last few years, had we ever been willing to say, "We want rid of him at all costs; we'll literally take any deal!", but we weren't willing to do that. Until now. Not surprisingly, as soon as we hired a GM who was willing to say, "We'll take anything, or nothing at all!", we were able to find a trade partner immediately.

Funny how that works: tell the league, "We'll settle for pennies on the dollar," and look how fast "untradeable" players get moved.

If teams weren't willing to give up anything, it pretty much sums up how much of a commodity Thompson is when teams are only willing to take him for free.

 

[dude12]

By that logic there was never a bad GM or a bad trade in the NBA...

I have a problem with dismissing every criticism from the outside (and the inside) by saying that they don't know nothing... that is what Lakers fans do- and we laugh at Lakers fans.

Nothing against Vlade- just think that it's ridiculous and extremely arrogant to ignore the views of nearly every national media/analyst, some with front office experience, just cause you don't like what they are saying.

Your sensationalizing.

 

[bajaden]

By that logic there was never a bad GM or a bad trade in the NBA...

I have a problem with dismissing every criticism from the outside (and the inside) by saying that they don't know nothing... that is what Lakers fans do- and we laugh at Lakers fans.

Nothing against Vlade- just think that it's ridiculous and extremely arrogant to ignore the views of nearly every national media/analyst, some with front office experience, just cause you don't like what they are saying.

How much of the so called national media do you think has done any research about what's going on with the Kings? How many do you think has actually picked up the phone and talked to Vlade, or anyone in the Kings front office? How many sit on their butts in New York or Washington and just do the print version of a retweet. Do you think they really care about the facts? The Kings are great filler right now. I'm very selective as to who I give credibility to. I'll put my money on just about anything that Sam Amick writes, but even he's human. There was a moment when he let his emotions get the best of him.

With all the prediction's the all seeing national media made about who the Kings were going to sign or what they were going to do, they had no clue about the trade with Philly, and had no idea about the Belinelli signing. So apparently they don't know everything. As for me, if I have a choice of whether to believe the best about someone, or the worse about someone, I'm going to go with the best until I have a good reason not to. In this case, why would I want to believe the worse about my own team. I'm taking Vlade at his word until its proven to be wrong. And the last thing I'm going to do is mock him on this form as some have done.

I guess I look at being a fan differently than most. I see us all as teammates on the same team, with the same goals. If someone falls down, we help him back up. If he makes a mistake, we pat him on the back and tell him to forget about it, we all make mistakes. But we don't kick him when he's down. We don't make fun of him. Or at least I don't. Don't get me wrong. There are bad teammates, and they need to be weeded or culled out. And yes, I realize that there's a difference between being a fan and an actual teammate. But when the whole world is throwing rocks at my team, I'm not going to join them. I'm going to get up and start throwing the rocks back at them.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

If teams weren't willing to give up anything, it pretty much sums up how much of a commodity Thompson is when teams are only willing to take him for free.

Or, it says that twenty-nine teams were determined to screw us, and we 'weren't able' to trade him until we resigned ourselves to getting screwed.

 

[peacelate]

Or, it says that twenty-nine teams were determined to screw us, and we 'weren't able' to trade him until we resigned ourselves to getting screwed.

Yea, I'm sure all other 29 teams were out to get the Kings over Jason Thompson...

 

[bajaden]

It's funny that the media outside of Sacramento thinks the Kings could have given up less to get this deal done. The Kings have been trying to get rid of Thompson for several years now and no teams wanted him. That's his value. Landry is an undersized PF who is piling up injuries on the wrong side of 30. Apparently no one outside of Sacramento watched Stauskas' rookie season.

NBA scouts don't give that much credence to a players rookie season. The see how he was used. What his opportunities were. They also realize that it usually takes the average player three years to grow into whatever kind of player he'll become. If you saw how Stauskas was used at Michigan, you would have realized that the Kings misused him. All they asked him to do was go stand in the corner and wait for the ball, which most of the time, never came his way. You don't write off a player after his rookie year, unless he simply has no clue how to play the game and has few skills to boot. AKA, Thomas Robinson.

The key to this trade was Stauskas and the the possible draft pick. I don't think Philly cared about Landry or JT very much. I'm not saying that Stauskas is going to be a star. I'm just saying that it's way too early to give up on a young player like him.