Kings 2009-2010 NBA Draft:

[bajaden]

When I watched Orton play this season, I was impressed by his size and defense. In the couple of games early in the season, I thought he was a bit mechanical on offense, but noticed that he seemed much more comfortable later in the season. I agree that he would be worth a look at #6 based on what he might turn into down the road. You just can't teach size and he already has good defensive instinsts.

Yeah, I think at the beginning of the season he had to adjust to facing bigger guys than he did in highschool. But as the season went on he looked a lot more comfortable. I've got to admit. It never entered my mind that he would declare for the draft. Don't think it entered Calapari's mind either.

 

[Arby's Roast Beef]

Orton will probably be like the Jrue Holiday of last year's draft. The numbers don't look terribly enticing, but once their NBA bodies hit the NBA hardwood, they might fare much better. While I griped a lot about Holiday last year at this time (turns out I was extremely wrong, although I have to admit Holiday probably landed in the perfect situation because Philly didn't have a PG), I have less about Orton, even if there still are some. He won't be a scorer in this league, as he lacks instincts and touch (he's turnover prone and has little range) and his rebounding appears fairly average, but I have high hopes that he can be a patroller in the NBA, even if he's an extreme hack at this stage (his steal/block ratio was best among all NCAA centers). Theo Ratliff? I'm still of the belief that he entered maybe a year early in the draft, because next year he could probably put up the commanding numbers and impact that would probably increase his stock. As of now scouts are living off the perception of his potential as a wide-bodied enforcer in the paint, which obviously isn't a given as he's very foul prone and he doesn't have ideal height for a center. But with teams reaching for capable defensive minded bigs, even Orton is up there in the mid teens range of the draft.

 

[bajaden]

Orton will probably be like the Jrue Holiday of last year's draft. The numbers don't look terribly enticing, but once their NBA bodies hit the NBA hardwood, they might fare much better. While I griped a lot about Holiday last year at this time (turns out I was extremely wrong, although I have to admit Holiday probably landed in the perfect situation because Philly didn't have a PG), I have less about Orton, even if there still are some. He won't be a scorer in this league, as he lacks instincts and touch (he's turnover prone and has little range) and his rebounding appears fairly average, but I have high hopes that he can be a patroller in the NBA, even if he's an extreme hack at this stage (his steal/block ratio was best among all NCAA centers). Theo Ratliff? I'm still of the belief that he entered maybe a year early in the draft, because next year he could probably put up the commanding numbers and impact that would probably increase his stock. As of now scouts are living off the perception of his potential as a wide-bodied enforcer in the paint, which obviously isn't a given as he's very foul prone and he doesn't have ideal height for a center. But with teams reaching for capable defensive minded bigs, even Orton is up there in the mid teens range of the draft.

I have access to some of his highschool film. I'll just leave it at that. And while its just highschool, what impressed me the most was that he had a lot more offense than I thought, based on what I saw at Kentucky. He has a nice jumper that he banks in most of the time, aka Duncan. He also had a much broader post game than he displayed this season. As I said, the competition was highschool and he wasn't facing players with comparable height. But the point is that he had the foundation in place. It would have been nice to see how much more he would have developed had he been given more time.

I'm sure Calapari shares your opinion on his returning to school.

 

[bajaden]

This is an article written about DeMarcus Cousins last January. I'm mostly posting it because it includes a decent amount of highschool footage that displays some of his talent. I figured that there are probably some out there that have never seen him play...

http://www.weballin.net/index.php?o...-demarcus-cousins&catid=24:profiles&Itemid=72

 

[Kingster]

You never know. I think what surprised me was how good an athlete he was. He's very light on his feet and seems to have very good lateral quickness. There was one play where he blocked a jump shot from around 4 feet away at the top of its arc. I never realized that he had that kind of leaping ability. I've moved him ahead of Udoh on my list simply because of his size in the post. When you consider he blocked a shot every 9.6 minutes and Udoh blocked a shot every 9.5 minutes, its a push in that dept. Orton is a guy that could play both PF and Center. Whereas I see Udoh as strictly a PF. So he's more versatile.

If #6, why not #5?

 

[Kingster]

I thought about this for a while and came to the conclusion that Calapari knew that Wall and Cousins, and probably Patterson were going to enter the draft. So I think he knew how good Orton was, and figured that if he didn't showcase him, he'd have no choice but to return to school for another season. I think Orton surprised him when he declared for the draft.

Ahh. I see I'm not the only cynic on this board...

 

[iowamcnabb]

IF Cousin's ceiling was B Lopez and Wall's was Cp3, who would be the number one pick? I wonder how big of a roll Wall's hs status plays in this draft.

 

[sidney]

This is an article written about DeMarcus Cousins last January. I'm mostly posting it because it includes a decent amount of highschool footage that displays some of his talent. I figured that there are probably some out there that have never seen him play...

http://www.weballin.net/index.php?o...-demarcus-cousins&catid=24:profiles&Itemid=72

Thanks for posting this. I suppose I already expected to see a strong big guy - which I did, but what surprised me most when I watched that video was his 1)his ability and confidence in passing and 2)his ball handling.

I don't remember reading about those strengths before, but he's clearly more skilled than I thought. Is that consistent with how he played this last year, Baja? I don't watch college ball.

 

[Vlade4GM]

Thanks for posting this. I suppose I already expected to see a strong big guy - which I did, but what surprised me most when I watched that video was his 1)his ability and confidence in passing and 2)his ball handling.

I don't remember reading about those strengths before, but he's clearly more skilled than I thought. Is that consistent with how he played this last year, Baja? I don't watch college ball.

He was more of a perimeter big in HS.

 

[bajaden]

Thanks for posting this. I suppose I already expected to see a strong big guy - which I did, but what surprised me most when I watched that video was his 1)his ability and confidence in passing and 2)his ball handling.

I don't remember reading about those strengths before, but he's clearly more skilled than I thought. Is that consistent with how he played this last year, Baja? I don't watch college ball.

No, Calapari didn't let him handle the ball nearly as much. And rightly so, when you have Wall there. But he did pass the ball well. And he runs the floor well for a big. The main point, is that he's not just some one dimensional big guy. He does have skills. And some of those skills will help him at the next level. Making outlet passes, and playing out of the high post sometimes.

 

[hammystyle]

Landry Fields

I don't think I saw him play even once, but anyone have thought on this guy? 22 points and 9 rebounds in the Pac-10 is legit even in a terrible year for the conference. Just on paper, he seems a little like a Jared Dudley type.

 

[fnordius]

I don't think I saw him play even once, but anyone have thought on this guy? 22 points and 9 rebounds in the Pac-10 is legit even in a terrible year for the conference. Just on paper, he seems a little like a Jared Dudley type.

I'm always up for our inviting some of the more interesting undrafted guys to Summer League. We know he's going to be available, since he's a senior. His game is well rounded, and he seems to be pretty smart.

I do worry, though, about how his game would translate. 6'7" and 215 lbs. works better for a combo F at Stanford than it does in the NBA, and we're pretty stocked up with flexible 6'7" combo guys.

No harm in trying him out, though.

 

[bajaden]

I'll be very surprised if Landry gets drafted. He's a hardworking player thats not a bad shooter. I suspect he'll have a career in europe. At least in the short term.

 

[=LarryLegend=]

I am ok if we get the third pick and draft Derrick Favors or DeMarcus cousins. both could help our team.

If we draft Cousins it will make Hawes man up. if we draft Favors Landry and Favors rotation would be nasty. also would make JT man up.

annoyed Jacob Pullen is talking about returning to Kansas. he is a beast. would def like to see a Reke, Beno and Pullen rotation.

 

[bajaden]

I am ok if we get the third pick and draft Derrick Favors or DeMarcus cousins. both could help our team.

If we draft Cousins it will make Hawes man up. if we draft Favors Landry and Favors rotation would be nasty. also would make JT man up.

annoyed Jacob Pullen is talking about returning to Kansas. he is a beast. would def like to see a Reke, Beno and Pullen rotation.

I think the best thing Pullen could do is go back to Kansas St. for his senior year. If he doesn't, there's a good chance he won't get drafted. There are too many Pt. guards of similar skills already declared. Denis Clemente, his own teammate would be drafted before him, and he's probably a late second round pick. Ditto Collins..

 

[Gilles]

No, Calapari didn't let him handle the ball nearly as much. And rightly so, when you have Wall there. But he did pass the ball well. And he runs the floor well for a big. The main point, is that he's not just some one dimensional big guy. He does have skills. And some of those skills will help him at the next level. Making outlet passes, and playing out of the high post sometimes.

During his recruiting process Cousins dropped "I want to play SG!" bomb which was partly the reason he was rated so low at the beginning of the college season. That was just Artest-like.
Cousins obviously revised his views though.

 

[bajaden]

During his recruiting process Cousins dropped "I want to play SG!" bomb which was partly the reason he was rated so low at the beginning of the college season. That was just Artest-like.
Cousins obviously revised his views though.

Yeah, I remember that statement. I thought it was pretty funny at the time, and I'm sure Calapari got a good laugh out of it.

 

[=LarryLegend=]

What about Terrico White with our 2nd pick? can Tyreke and Terrico play together? Beno and Terrico?

 

[bajaden]

What about Terrico White with our 2nd pick? can Tyreke and Terrico play together? Beno and Terrico?

My personal choice would Dominique Jones. I really like this kid. He has good handles, he's a good passer and he can score the ball. And he's a very good defender. As I've said before, he reminds me of a taller version of Bobby Jackson.

 

[Gilles]

My personal choice would Dominique Jones. I really like this kid. He has good handles, he's a good passer and he can score the ball. And he's a very good defender. As I've said before, he reminds me of a taller version of Bobby Jackson.

Definitely Jones before White.

 

[bajaden]

Just a reminder for those draft minded folks. The NBA combine starts on wednsday. It will be televised in part by NBA TV starting thursday morning from 10 am to 1 pm. Its on again at 5 pm. Its on thursday thru sunday and is on three times a day. I have no idea if some are repeats or not.

I watched it last year and its fairly interesting to see the process. There's also interviews with some of the players and the GM's in attendance.

 

[UKRAINE]

Just a reminder for those draft minded folks. The NBA combine starts on wednsday. It will be televised in part by NBA TV starting thursday morning from 10 am to 1 pm. Its on again at 5 pm. Its on thursday thru sunday and is on three times a day. I have no idea if some are repeats or not.

I watched it last year and its fairly interesting to see the process. There's also interviews with some of the players and the GM's in attendance.

I will set my DVR to record that! Thanks!

 

[Vlade4GM]

Do you guys think there's any way we can grab a 2nd pick high enough to get Orton?

 

[rainmaker]

Do you guys think there's any way we can grab a 2nd pick high enough to get Orton?

I've been thinking about that also, not for Orten per se, I want Moteijunas, but thinking about how we might be able to get another pick between #10-#20.

If we take Favors or Cousins, than would you package Spencer or Jt and our 2nd round pick? Or would you be willing to part with anoth young player, because thats what I think it would take. I like Orton. Not sure yet what I would be willing to give up for him. If we got Cousins, I might be willing to package Spencer and our 2nd rounder for him.

 

[bajaden]

I've been thinking about that also, not for Orten per se, I want Moteijunas, but thinking about how we might be able to get another pick between #10-#20.

If we take Favors or Cousins, than would you package Spencer or Jt and our 2nd round pick? Or would you be willing to part with anoth young player, because thats what I think it would take. I like Orton. Not sure yet what I would be willing to give up for him. If we got Cousins, I might be willing to package Spencer and our 2nd rounder for him.

Maybe Spencer, not Thompson. I still think JT has a bright future and at the moment happens to be the best rebounder on the team. So I'm not ready to give up our best rebounder until I know for a fact we have someone else that would be better.

Remember that Orton has proved nothing yet, and were talking about giving up an established player plus another player that we would aquire with our 2nd round pick. Thats a lot to give up for nothing more than potential. Also remember that Orton has already had one knee surgery in highschool. Don't get me wrong. I'd love to find a way to get Orton or Udoh with another pick. But I'd rather just buy the pick if possible. Or trade a pick in the far future for it.

Possible sellers, prior to the lottery, might be.

Timberwolves: 2nd, 16th, 23rd, 45th, 56th.

Wizzards: 5th, 30th, 34th

Net's: 1st, 27th, 31st

Grizzleys: 12th and 25th

Atlanta has hinted that it might be willing to sell its 24th pick in the draft.

The most likely team to deal with is Minny, since they have 5 picks in the draft and 3 in the first round. Its common knowledge that what they lack is help at the center position and at the SG position. So Spence for the 16th and perhaps 45th picks in the draft might be appealing to both teams depending of course on where both the Kings and the Timberwolves land in the lottery and who they pick.

Lets say they end up with Turner and we end up with Cousins. They then are still in need of another center. At 16 they're not going to get anyone better than Spence. Of course I'm not sure the Kings are willing to give up on Spence just yet.

I'd rather not give up anyone, but just try and buy another pick.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Possible sellers, prior to the lottery, might be.

Timberwolves: 2nd, 16th, 23rd, 45th, 56th.

Wizzards: 5th, 30th, 34th

Net's: 1st, 27th, 31st

Grizzleys: 12th and 25th

Atlanta has hinted that it might be willing to sell its 24th pick in the draft.

I'm under the impression that Miami's #18 is on the table, too.

 

[bajaden]

I'm under the impression that Miami's #18 is on the table, too.

The more the merrier. The 18th pick would be nice. Should be some good players available.

 

[Vlade4GM]

Thompson is a nice player, but I (personally) just don't see much upside left in him. He's not really that good at anything in particular and he doesn't play much defense. I don't mind throwing our eggs in this draft's basket if we get a top 4 pick. Maybe throw in a protected future first for another lottery pick.

It may be a little risky but Orton can be very nice complimentary piece if we end up with a top 4 pick. Orton can be a Kendrick Perkins type player which would be very helpful if we don't end up with Cousins or Favors can't play C.

Udoh would be a good compliment to Cousins, but I don't know if I'd give up as much for him as I would for Orton. Ironically he'd be a much safer pick than Orton though.

 

[bajaden]

Thompson is a nice player, but I (personally) just don't see much upside left in him. He's not really that good at anything in particular and he doesn't play much defense. I don't mind throwing our eggs in this draft's basket if we get a top 4 pick. Maybe throw in a protected future first for another lottery pick.

It may be a little risky but Orton can be very nice complimentary piece if we end up with a top 4 pick. Orton can be a Kendrick Perkins type player which would be very helpful if we don't end up with Cousins or Favors can't play C.

Udoh would be a good compliment to Cousins, but I don't know if I'd give up as much for him as I would for Orton. Ironically he'd be a much safer pick than Orton though.

Players, especially big men, traditionally get better in their third and fourth years. So I always get a little confused when people get so casual about declaring a player has no upside after just finishing their second year. Especially when they finished the year strong.

I look at all players, especially home grown ones, as investments. I look at Thompson as a two year investment. Now I'm willing to trade that investment if I think I'm going to get a better return. But I'm not going to trade it in the hope that a player who averaged around 9 to 10 minutes a game in his freshman year, is going to be substantialy better than my current player is going to be next year. Especially when it might take another 2 to 3 years for him to reach that potential. Now I'm not going to say that Thompson is a great defender, but he has improved. And according to Synergy stats, the Kings team defense improves by 2 points when he on the floor. So he may not be great, but he's doing something right. He's also the best rebounder on the team. And the one area that Orton suffered in was in rebounding. He was a very good shotblocker though.

I always prefer to add, rather than subtract and then add. I know I'm beating a dead horse with this one, but I'm a believer in putting players in place and then letting them play together for a while to see what you have. If you keep changing the peices you never get any consistancy. And thats especially true with young players. With older more experienced players it usually doesn't take as long. The Kings are a young team. Tyreke has had only one year with the team. Landry a half a year. If you look at the main pieces of the team. Thompson, Landry, Evans, Greene, and Casspi have essentially played together for one year. I think you have to give them more time to see how good they can become.

Tough request in this instant gratification society we live in.

 

[Vlade4GM]

Well, I said he didn't have much upside left, not "no upside left." I don't believe in just looking at years in the league to determine their stage of development, not all rookies are created equal.

You're looking a lot at overall ability, I'm looking more at specific abilities that are hard to find. He's very long, strong, has good hands, and good shot blocking instincts. Plus, there is reason to believe that he's being undervalued because of how underexposed he was in college. So there's a chance that the rule that bigs are less likely to pan out past the first 5 picks or so, won't necessarily apply to him as much. I think he'll be able to develop into a good rebounder. It's a risk, but the downside of losing Thompson, or Hawes+protected future pick for a bust is not catastrophic. He's the model of what we still need if we decide against Cousins, or are not in a position to get him. Waiting around for a developed player like that to come along may not be the best strategy. I think he's talented enough to warrant a late lotto pick in any draft, that's just my opinion on him at this point though. I wouldn't expect anyone else to agree to this unless they thought fairly highly of him.

Thompson being the best rebounder on this team isn't really saying much. If we go forward depending on Thompson as our best rebounder, we're headed nowhere anyway. I suppose it may hurt us in that area next year, but it's not like Thompson is a great rebounder or anything, he's a good rebounder. The difference between him and his replacement(s) probably won't be that huge.

See that's the difference between you and me. First off, I don't really concern myself too much with keeping players together unless they're part of the core, or you already have a complete core. I don't consider Thompson to be apart of the core, nor do I think our core is nearly complete. I see him as a role playing starter at best. A gap filler. Which is not without its value, I'd just rather trade that in for a chance (even if it's not necessarily a highly probable chance) at a much more valued core piece.

I respect your position baja, but personally, I'm more inclined to roll the dice.