rainmaker
Hall of Famer
Please, don't go there this early...
Kings 2009-2010 NBA Draft:
- Thread starter bajaden
- Start date
Kingster
Hall of Famer
Sptsjunkie
Starter
Please, don't go there this early...
Certainly could happen. After getting Durant/Green the Thunder followed up with the 4th and 3rd picks in back to back seasons. Although IIRC, they were only the 6th worst team when they got the #3 pick last year.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
I read where the Hawks have stated that they would like to sell their first round pick, the 24 pick in the draft, for 3 mil. Apparently their trying to save as much money as possible so they can offer Johnson a max contract this offseason. 3 mil sounds like a lot to me for the 24th pick, but I'm not sure how you place a value on it. I wonder if the Kings would be interested?
Emma
Starter
I read where the Hawks have stated that they would like to sell their first round pick, the 24 pick in the draft, for 3 mil. Apparently their trying to save as much money as possible so they can offer Johnson a max contract this offseason. 3 mil sounds like a lot to me for the 24th pick, but I'm not sure how you place a value on it. I wonder if the Kings would be interested?
It should probably be valued at whatever guaranteed money would be thrown that player's way. You would have to pay that amount to acquire it, AND carry the contract.
hammystyle
Starter
I read where the Hawks have stated that they would like to sell their first round pick, the 24 pick in the draft, for 3 mil. Apparently their trying to save as much money as possible so they can offer Johnson a max contract this offseason. 3 mil sounds like a lot to me for the 24th pick, but I'm not sure how you place a value on it. I wonder if the Kings would be interested?
Better that then try and spend money on the free agent market I think. Follow the OKC/Portland model and get lots of young players together and see who can play. Petrie's drafting record is good enough that you can feel pretty good you're getting a solid NBA player with the investment.
Additionally, Chris Sheridan from espn.com said in a chat yeserday that he wouldn't be surprised if the Heat moved Daequan Cook, James Jones, Beasley AND a pick for free cap space. That would essentially allow them to sign two max free agents next to Wade and still have some space to fill in around the edges.
LPKingsFan
All-Star
People forget, though, that Portland and OKC tried to spend money. OKC did the aborted Chandler trade, and Portland tried to go after Hedo before he spurned them, ultimately signing Andre Miller. They've just re-upped Camby, too, to a large extension. I'm not saying the Kings should spend millions on David Lee this summer (but they should try with Bosh, why not?) the heralded OKC/Portland model is bordering on mythological status.
est.1999
Starter
The thing though is that basketball is completely different than football. Especially the QB position. You have got to be 200% mentality and physically ready to be effective. And now I'm not saying that that isn't the case with basketball. It's just that if cousins wants to get big headed and flash his dough around, I hardly doubt that he won't be ready to play everyday. JaMarcus Russell had bust written all over him when I first saw that he would potentially go first overall. I have not got that vibe from cousins, at ALL.
Kevin's Good Feet
G-League
People also forget about the Chicago Bulls too. They were following the Portland/OKC model (well since they did it first, it wasn't following). They had a bunch of young talent and a lot of cap room and everyone thought their future was bright.
But they couldn't land a superstar and ended up blowing their cap space on Ben Wallace. And they held onto their young talent way too long, refusing to give up what it took to get Gasol/Kobe/whoever. Then their young talent plateaued right around the time they were due for their big contract extensions (Hinrich, Deng, Nocioni, Gordon). So they turned from a team with a bright future into a mediocre team pretty fast.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
First off, I have no idea what the future holds for Cousins. I'm confident that Petrie and company will do their homework when it comes to him. All you can go on right now is what you saw during the season. Everything else is just pure speculation. I saw nothing during the regular season that discouraged me from wanting to draft him. He led college baskeball in several categories. I don't think you do that by being lazy or showing lack of effort. Beyond that, how motivated he is, or how great he wants to be, I have no idea. And frankly, nor does anyone else on this fourm.
Russell was a one game wonder and a guy with a great arm. I remember so much being made out his being able to throw the ball something like 80 yards from a kneeling position. I remember watching him fire the ball like a rocket through 2 or 3 defenders for completions. I remember commenting to a friend at the time that he won't get away with that at the NFL level. He showed no ability to read defenses at the time and just got by on pure arm strength. John Elway came into the league in a similar fashion, and quickly got a rude awakening. The difference is that Elway did his homework and became a knowledgeble Quarterback. When you added that to his physical tools, you had one great quarterback. Russell has so far shown no interest in doing the same. I predicted he would be a bust at the time, and so far he hasn't proven me wrong. By the way, another QB that has his head up his butt at times is Cutler. I'm still holding out hope for him. I think Russell is a wash.
hammystyle
Starter
Well of course we should try with Bosh. We should try with Lebron too. But after they say no, we should pass on the Joe Johnson's, Boozers, and David Lee's of the world.
Portland didn't try to spend money until they already had a playoff team.
OKC didn't try and get an open market free agent, they tried to get a 26 year old defensive center for nothing when he had three years left on his deal. Then (wisely) nixed it when the medicals came back. If there's a similar deal out thee, we should take a hard look, but I don't see one.
There's nothing mythical about the Portland/OKC model. The facts are in and its worked. OKC has the brightest future in basketball, Portland is right up there and would probly be #1 if Oden didn't keep getting hurt. In terms of spending Portland was a little unlucky due to the timing of firing the free agency bullet. OKC will either go after Bosh this year or try and get one of the centers on next years market. They're golden.
Its not about just hoarding cap picks and space. Its about investing in young players and looking for smart ways to spend your money. Bosh would count as a smart way.
Emma
Starter
I worry about Cousins's drive. I (admittedly not having watched much college basketball) wonder about his drive to respond to critics in a positive manner about his weight and attitude. Are these unfounded worries spurred on by paying too much attention to a prospect's speculated negatives?
bajaden
Hall of Famer
Well in my perfect world I would agree with that. But the amount of guaranteed money certainly wouldn't be 3 mil. So I guess the pick is worth whatever you can get for it. I suspose that if you can target a couple of players that you might want, and that you think might be there at that point, then you make a bid on the pick.
I tend to agree with Hammy that it would be cheap investment when compared to signing a freeagent of any worth. Although it might cost us 3 mil up front, the salary for the 24th pick in the draft is locked in at a max of $933,500.00. So the actual salary is not much of a major investment. Even in the fourth year, it would be next to nothing when compared to just the MLE.
The nice thing about being the 24th pick is that there's no pressure on you. You can be brought alone slowly, similar to how Kevin Martin was allowed to develop.
hammystyle
Starter
I don't see it as the same model. They tried to build around Hinrich, Deng, Gordon, Chandler and then Wallace. Nice players, but they never had a franchise centerpiece. In retrospect, it sure seems like Scott Skiles is just an excellent coach who made them look better than they were.
As it were it worked out for the best. They swindled the Knicks in the Eddy Curry trade and that resulted in Joakim Noah. Then the year the mediocre players got tired of Scott Skiles driving them, he got fired and they ended up 33-29. They looked like a team destined for late lottery purgatory, but they won the Rose lottery on a 1.7% chance. Now they've got a franchise PG, a great young defensive center, Deng is still young and fits better as a 3/4 banana, and to cap it off a pretty decent shot to land LeBron, Wade, or Bosh with their cap space. Lucky.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
Well I did watch a lot of college basketball, and of course saw Kentucky play numerous times. There was nothing wrong with Cousins weight. I posted several pictures of him on the fourm asking someone to point out his pot belly he was accused of having. There wasn't one. If anything, he looked as though he could carry more weight.
But there is a difference between not being overweight and being in top condition. So yes, I do think his conditioning needs to improve. But its not unusual for big men of his size and weight to not be in NBA condition. I'm not going to sit here and tell you it won't be a problem in the future. But I won't tell you it will either. Frankly I don't know.
This I do know. He does have a quick temper, and he also has a little bit of mean streak in him. By that, I mean if a player from the other team elbows him in the gut, that player can expect to get elbowed back at some point, and probably harder. When he was on the floor fighting for the ball and the opposing player intentionally kneed him in the side of the head, he retaliated by slamming his forearm into the players face. Now he shouldn't have done that. And he was the one called for the techical foul because the ref's didn't see the initial blow. But at the same time, I'm not sure I wouldn't have reacted the same way he did.
Every opposing team knew of his temper and every team he faced tried to use his temper against him. Almost every time he played in an opposing arena, he was taunted by the crowd. And on the whole, I think he handled it fairly well. When Kentucky played, I believe it was Louisville, someone found out Cousins cellphone number and gave it out to the entire campus. So he was deluged with thousands of calls. They were even trying to call him during the game. At one point during the game, he walked out onto the floor during a timeout and held up his cellphone to the crowd with a big smile on his face and yelled, Call Me.
I think he put up with a lot of crap. And most of the crap was intentional on the part of the opposition to get him out of his game. Yes, he had his bad moments. But I do think he needs to be cut some slack. I'm not sure a lot of us would have reacted as well as he did in some cases. He did clash with Calapari on occasion. But most of those clashes were a result of Calapari trying to calm him down from an incident not related to actual coaching.. Did he think he knew best at times. Of course he did. Show me a 19 year old that doesn't.
Look, he could turn out to be a big bust. But if so, it won't be for lack of talent. This kid is a legit 280 pound monster in the post. And what impressed me the most, was the progress he made from the beginning of the season to the end. He was a much better player at the end of the season than at the beginning. And thats what your looking for in a young player. The ability to improve.
That was after he made a big-time throw-down dunk, too. Hey, if that's the way he's going to take out his aggressions, I don't have any problem with it at all.
The coach-clashing is a bit more worrisome, but from the recent guys we've drafted, it seems like we must have some decent psychological tests...it's not like we've drafted a bunch of headcases lately. I'll leave that determination up to the folks in charge (if it even comes down to that).
bajaden
Hall of Famer
Yeah, I figure the Kings will do their due diligence and come to a decision. So I'm happy to leave it in their hands..
And buying a pick doesn't count against cap or tax. It's kind of uniquely a good deal in that respect.
Chupacabra
Starter
I think Cousins gets drafted as the 2nd pick. That will make everyone but me absolutely thrilled if we get the #3 pick.
This is the kind of deal the Kings should be all over. We are a less attractive destination and quality free agents are tough to come by. We also need to stockpile young talent and assets. If they combined the Atlanta and Miami moves, you could essentially end this offseason by adding (depending on draft position):
Demarcus Cousins (Kings pick)
Michael Beasly
Solomon Alabi or Larry Sanders (Heat pick if its 2010)
Eric Bledsoe or Avery Bradley (Hawks pick)
Jones, Faried or Varnardo (Kings 2nd round)
Daequan Cook
and potentially even a small signing or two. Not a bad year and you aren't tied into any long term big deals.
I'm not sure I buy the idea of Miami sloughing off Cook, Jones, and Beasley for cap space. Sounds more like a sportswriter gone wild than an actual possibility. That would essentially leave them with ONE player (Chalmers) and Joel Anthony's player option (it's small so he might try the FA market) coming back. That's scary territory, hoping to sign two max free agents and then piecemeal put a team back together - and by that I mean adding 9-10 players with very little cap room left. (Veteran's minimum for EVERYBODY! Woo!) And even BEFORE dropping those players they'd have like $44M in cap space. What, do they hope to sign three max free agents? I'll believe it when I see it.
I think the thought was they would be able to sign Wade plus 2 max guys with that deal. The rest would be vet deals. You figure if they had 3 max guys, there might be plenty of people willing to sign deals just to be part of that team plus filler.
Not sure how valid it is, I just hope the Kings are all over it. The comparison to the Portland/OK situations are something the Kings could emulate. My only concern is that in both situations, those GMs have been aggressive with acquiring young talent and picks and that hasn't always been Geoff's style. It isn't enough to just add your draft picks each season and hope they all turn into Tyreke.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
I think I have to agree with the Capt on this one. I'd hate to spend all my money on three max players and then fill in with a bunch of scrubs. Will any good player sign for the league minimum instead of 3 or 4 mil, just for the privilige of playing with three superstars. I think not. The bottom line is usually money. I can see Wade maybe taking less than the max if the team commits to someone he thinks can make a difference. But he'll still make a boatload of money. Anyway, I wouldn't count on aquiring anything from Miami.
However the Atlanta pick sounds like something that would be reasonable. Its also something that might not happen until the draft is in progress. Lets say your interested in a certain player, or maybe two players. I think you might wait until its Atlanta's turn to pick, to make sure one of those two players are there before making the deal. Of course there's always the risk that someone makes a pre-emptive strike. But at least you would get who you want if it works out.
Well, as far as the proposal goes, I would be all over Beasley (and any pick), but I've got basically no interest in Jones or Cook. Jones will be 30 and has 3 years and $15M left on his contract (could be straight-up bought out for about $6M before June 30th). Cook is just basically not a good basketball player and makes over $2M for one year. So, you'd basically get Beasley for two years and the #18 pick for 4 years at the cost of about $25.5M overall (Beasley + Cook + #18 salary, Jones buyout). Worth it? I don't know. Seems steep.
Break it down this way: The total salary for the #18 pick would be a bit over $6M for the four years. Work under the assumption that we would pay $2M cash for that pick, right here, right now, so of the $25.5M, $8M go toward the pick. That leaves about $17.5M that go toward the privilege of having Beasley. So let's say we were given the opportunity to sign Beasley for two years, $8.5M + $9M (with built-in qualifying offer/Bird rights we wouldn't normally have with a two-year contract). With Donté and Casspi on hand, do we do it? That's a tough call. If we had no future at SF, I'd say yes. I would be tempted anyway, but I don't know if I'd do it.
Big Cuz 15
All-Star
the 18th pick would be nice to have. i don't know about taking on all that baggage to get it done though. beasley is a nice player but i think he's a bit undersized as a power SF. he looks like he might be only 6'7
Gary
All-Star
I still think Turner goes #2.. He's got Tyreke Evans type stats written all over him. 20-5-5 if he starts the whole year.
He measured 6'8.25" in shoes in his pre-draft camp.
Despite the talk about this being a deep draft, there's no way I do that deal (the whole thing as proposed) just for the #18 pick. Beasley is the clear prize in the deal, and if he's not temptation enough to us to make the deal happen, it doesn't happen.
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Sptsjunkie
Starter
Agree 100%. If we get another potential superstar with our lotto pick. I would be very tempted to take a chance on Beasley. Although, ironically, he would fit best if we paired him with Reke and Cousins, but having Beasley and Cousins on the same team scares me.
