Kings 2009-2010 NBA Draft:

[Kingster]

Kind of a no brainer me thinks. Somehow I just don't feel enlightened.

And my source was my son. But since no one knows who that is, I guess I'm not really revealing anything.

My point was that how dare you reveal that your innocent was your source! Betrayal know no boundaries...

 

[Kingster]

If Wall had better advanced ball handling skills, then I'd say you can't pass on him, but the truth is that he doesn't. Which makes his ceiling a little harder to reach since advanced ball handling skills are not easily improved upon. It's not going to stop him from possibly being a very good PG, but perhaps less creativity than the true elites at the position. His shot isn't very good right now, but if we're going to compare him to Tyreke, then I'd say Wall has much better potential with his shot than Evans does since he has much better mechanics.

Just thinking about the unlikely hypothetical that if we did get the #1 pick, sometimes I think it's crazy to pass on Wall's upside. On the other hand though, Turner is a much safer pick, better fit with Evans, and has pretty good potential in his own right. I lean towards Turner.

I sure hope we end up with that problem!

 

[bajaden]

Is it wrong that I'd actually prefer Evans to Wall? I mean, I've seen Kentucky more than any other team by quite some distance, and while I'd love to have Wall or Cousins, I just think Turner is the better player now. I mean, Wall might have more potential long-term, but I'm not even convinced of that. Wall is a truly tremendous prospect, but so is Turner. I think Turner would be a better fit next to 'Reke.

Wall is a pure point but he can't shoot. In fact, in the 5-8 games I've seen him in, he's just as bad a shooter as Tyreke. Turner isn't a 3 point bomber but he's got a good mid-range game. He's an all rounder and he's unselfish. He really knows when to make the extra pass. I also think he's a very under-rated athlete. He's got an explosive first step and he can jump better than you would think. He really reminds me of Wade. Maybe not as good an athlete, but same type of game. I can see Turner being a legit star in a few years. I don't think his potential is limited at all.

Wall, while putting up beastly numbers, just doesn't seem to play as well as his stats indicate. Of course that might be a moot point considering that he is a fantastic prospect. You can see that he has all the tools to be a star. I'd be ecstatic with him, obviously, but I'd still prefer Turner. A backcourt of Turner and Evans would be a mismatch for the opposition every single night. Not many teams can say that.

Cousins would be a great fit. If he ever sorts his head out he can be a perennial All-Star at the Center position. That's how good I think he could be. Great size, strength, good post game, good defender, long, decent athlete.

Of course, this is all probably irrelevant as they are probably the top 3 prospects and we likely won't have a shot at any of those guys. Just some of my thoughts on those guys.

Bajaden, you clearly watch alot of college ball and have a vast knowledge of the game, what's your opinion on Wall/Turner? Just curious. That goes for you too, Gilles, and anyone else who wants to chip in.

I don't know how much more I can say about either one. I've said many times that I think Turner is the best player in college basketball. About the only part of his game thats missing is his three point shot. And to be honest, I'm not sure he needs a three point shot. Wade does just fine, and he seldom takes a three pointer. In three years from now, Wall may be the the better player overall. No guarantee's, but I think everyone would agree that he has the making of a star.

So short term, your going to get a more complete, and very talented player in Turner. But you might get as super star in Wall long term. The truth is, you can only go by what you see right now if your being fair. What might happen in the future is speculation. Sound speculation perhaps, but still, as I said, no guarantee's. I doubt you could go wrong with either one.

 

[bajaden]

Really? I think he's just catching a bad rap because of how bad the team was, but he was clearly the bright spot. If He scored a lot more, and did it more efficiently. He blocked shots at a higher rate and fouled less. The rebounding rate went down slightly, but its still top notch. He also had the Derrick Favors syndrome, sharing inside touches with inferior players and getting really bad guard play. He probly had it worse than Favors.

I don't know what expectations were, but he improved across the board. He's not a star player. His role in the league is to be a very good defender and rebounder and efficient inside scorer. A good team player who knows how to play. That's extremely valuable. My only question with him is measurements. He's got a very nice wingspan, but he'll always be skinny. If he's 6'10+, he can make that work in the league. If he's 6'9" it really puts a cap on what he can do.

Well I think I mentioned that he was playing on an entirely different team. And while its true that losing Ty Lawson was a huge blow to the team, North Carolina still had a team concept. They still tried to get the ball inside. Thats something G Tech didn't even attempt at times. As a matter of fact, most of the time. I'm not trying to bash Davis. I just don't think he's someone that can come in and contribute serious minutes right away. He needs to put on some weight and get stronger. He got pushed around by stronger players under the basket. There is no way in hell that I would take him before Udoh. Just compare the two. Udoh is bigger and taller. Udoh is a good ballhandler, and Davis is a terrible ballhandler. Udoh is a good passer, and Davis is average at best. Udoh has a nice 15 to 17 foot jumper, and Davis has nothing away from the basket. Defensively their both pretty good defenders, but Udoh once again is more physical than Davis.

None of this is intended to belittle Davis, but to put him in prespective. Udoh is older and more experienced, so he should be better. And thats my point. Davis would be well served to go back to school. I like him. He runs the floor well. He has a sort of crazy herky jerky way of playing the post. and he's not bad in the post. He was a pretty good defensive rebounder, so he has the edge on Udoh in that dept. There's no way I would take him over Aldrich. I'm not sure why everyone is down on Aldrich. He's a pretty pretty darned good defender and rebounder. And he's more athletic than people think. He knows his limitations and he doesn't try to do things he's not capable of. Offensively he's not terrible. He has some post moves and a little jumpshot. Its just that he wasn't the focus of the offense at Kansas.

 

[bajaden]

Feeling somewhat guilty about my critique of Davis, I went back and watch a couple of games that I had recorded. I still wasn't that impressed with his overall play in general, but I will say that despite fighting for position and not getting the ball on numerous occasions, he still managed to score at a respectable rate. I know he's considered a good athlete, and at times he looks the part. But other times he almost looks mechanical. Mutomboish if you will. The difference being that he scores better than Mutombo. He sometimes shows a lack of patience in the paint. But in truth, if you had to sell your house to get the ball, I can understand rushing to do something with it. He's also not a bad shotblocker. I'm curious how tall he really is, but I suspect that we won't find out this year. I think he'll return to North Carolina. He improved this year from last. If he can make the same improvement next year, he could be one of the best big men in the draft next year. With emphasis on could...

 

[est.1999]

I'm very intrigued as to what kind of damage a turner/Evans back court can do to the rest of the league. I think they can be a dominant force together. Two big guards who can both handle the rock extremely well. Miss match nightmare. Switching defenders is not an option. I don't know too much about turners defense but Evans is on his way to being elite on that end.

 

[bajaden]

I'm very intrigued as to what kind of damage a turner/Evans back court can do to the rest of the league. I think they can be a dominant force together. Two big guards who can both handle the rock extremely well. Miss match nightmare. Switching defenders is not an option. I don't know too much about turners defense but Evans is on his way to being elite on that end.

First off, unless the Kings are blessed by the basketball god's, there's no chance of them getting Turner. But in the event the god's do smile, it would be a great pairing. Both are good ballhandlers and passers. I'd actually give the edge to Turner in the passing dept as far as creativity goes. Bot are good at getting to the basket. Naturally I'd give the edge to Evans here. Turner is the better shooter. Especially from mid-range. And yes, Turner is a good defender. At least at the college level.

You could do a three man rotation with Turner, Beno, and Evans. Just about any combination of the three on the floor at the same time would be very effective.

 

[bajaden]

I was reading the New York newspapers this morning and there was an interview with Walsh. When asked if Bosh was a max salary player, he said no. He said he didn't think Bosh has what it takes to carry a team on his own. That he had the chance in Toronto and could't do it there. When asked about signing Bosh or resigning Lee, he said he would rather have Lee who he thought was tougher and a better passer. Interesting.....

Has anyone thought about a Kobe, LeBron pairing in the big apple. I have thought for some time that Kobe might opt out of his contract this summer, and now I read that there are rumblings of just that happening. All rumors of course. But when you consider that the league is going to try and impose severe restrictions on new contracts after this coming season, it might be Kobe's last chance to get a max contract of the size he's accustomed to. Of course he could always just resign with the Lakers.

 

[Kingstime]

I was reading the New York newspapers this morning and there was an interview with Walsh. When asked if Bosh was a max salary player, he said no. He said he didn't think Bosh has what it takes to carry a team on his own. That he had the chance in Toronto and could't do it there. When asked about signing Bosh or resigning Lee, he said he would rather have Lee who he thought was tougher and a better passer. Interesting......

Well I'm glad one GM thinks like me regarding Bosh, all that Walsh said is one hundred percent spot on truth...well except the whole David Lee thing.

Kinda off topic but this is the draft thread. In a fantasy world with you as the GM, assuming the Nets got the number one pick and we got something in the top 7 would u trade our pick for Brook Lopez?

 

[Vlade4GM]

I was reading the New York newspapers this morning and there was an interview with Walsh. When asked if Bosh was a max salary player, he said no. He said he didn't think Bosh has what it takes to carry a team on his own. That he had the chance in Toronto and could't do it there. When asked about signing Bosh or resigning Lee, he said he would rather have Lee who he thought was tougher and a better passer. Interesting.....

Has anyone thought about a Kobe, LeBron pairing in the big apple. I have thought for some time that Kobe might opt out of his contract this summer, and now I read that there are rumblings of just that happening. All rumors of course. But when you consider that the league is going to try and impose severe restrictions on new contracts after this coming season, it might be Kobe's last chance to get a max contract of the size he's accustomed to. Of course he could always just resign with the Lakers.

Bosh is going to get a max contract from someone. If the Knicks don't want to do it, then that's one less player they have a shot at.

He'll re-sign with the Lakers. Even if he didn't, I doubt he would play for the Knicks since they're likely to remain losers. Also, I doubt LeBron would want to play with Kobe, Lebron is too insecure and his ego is way too big to handle that.

 

[est.1999]

I don't even think that the nets would give us lopez for a top 3 pick. There's no guarantees that anyone in this draft is going to be better than lopez. Not even taking into account that he's already a top center in this league where centers are so rare

 

[Kingstime]

I don't even think that the nets would give us lopez for a top 3 pick. There's no guarantees that anyone in this draft is going to be better than lopez. Not even taking into account that he's already a top center in this league where centers are so rare

Well yeah but thats why I asked pretty much this question with the whole fantasy gm thing.

Pretty much I'm asking would u trade a chance at a guy like Cousins, Aldrich or Turner for a proven center like Lopez?

 

[est.1999]

Well yeah I would

 

[Dime Dropper]

Bosh is going to get a max contract from someone. If the Knicks don't want to do it, then that's one less player they have a shot at.

He'll re-sign with the Lakers. Even if he didn't, I doubt he would play for the Knicks since they're likely to remain losers. Also, I doubt LeBron would want to play with Kobe, Lebron is too insecure and his ego is way too big to handle that.

That might be true, but I think it's even truer the other way around. As much as Kobe might let on that it's not, his ego is far bigger than LeBron's. You'll struggle to find anyone in the league with a bigger ego than Kobe. Of course, that's not taking anything away from his game.





Was disappointed to see Ohio State bow out to Tennessee (who I don't particularly like). Turner showed how good he is even though he did have some trouble at the end. I'm not sure if Wall even has more upside although he probably does. He's not a better player now though. Really looking forward to seeing Wall and Cousins go up against WV tonight. Maybe Wall will convince me that he's a lock to go first. I already believe Cousins will be a very good center.

Chism is a good player but I don't know how high his upside is. Not very, I'd imagine. His game reminds me of Blair's although he's taller and not as strong. I think he'll be a solid player at the next level.




In response to whether I'd trade a top 7 pick for Lopez. It depends. Where in the top 7 are we? If we get 1 through 3, I'd be tempted to keep the pick and take my chances with Turner, Wall or Cousins (who I think has more upside than Lopez, although probably won't be as effective defensively). Anywhere past that and I think you'd have to take Lopez. The upside of guys like Favours, Johnson etc. doesn't outweigh having a legit center.

All that said, big defensive Centers, who aren't a liabilty on offense, are very hard to find. I wouldn't be complaining if we traded any pick for him. He's precisely what this team needs. He has alot of value. Which is why I suspect the Nets wouldn't trade him for any pick.

 

[bajaden]

Well I'm glad one GM thinks like me regarding Bosh, all that Walsh said is one hundred percent spot on truth...well except the whole David Lee thing.

Kinda off topic but this is the draft thread. In a fantasy world with you as the GM, assuming the Nets got the number one pick and we got something in the top 7 would u trade our pick for Brook Lopez?

No brainer! Absolutely...I doubt they would though.

 

[bajaden]

Bosh is going to get a max contract from someone. If the Knicks don't want to do it, then that's one less player they have a shot at.

He'll re-sign with the Lakers. Even if he didn't, I doubt he would play for the Knicks since they're likely to remain losers. Also, I doubt LeBron would want to play with Kobe, Lebron is too insecure and his ego is way too big to handle that.

Well I posted it, not so much as to whether somebody would give him a max contract or not, but because his appraisial is similar to mine. A little self gratification if you will. I think giving Bosh a max contract is overpaying for him. But I'm also sure that some idiot will give him one. And if no one else in the league does, the idiots may be us.

Don't get me wrong. I like Bosh and I think he would help the team. I just don't think we would be getting our best bang for the buck.

 

[cstorm]

My concern with spending big on free agency or trading for a star is that they won't want to be here.

My ideal scenario would be to land one of the young guns in the draft and then maybe add a few pieces (NOT FLEXIBLE PIECES!!!) in free agency. Make a name for ourselves in 2010-11 as a team on the rise and THEN (after the lock-out ) see who REALLY wants to be a part of a new winning tradition.

 

[Vlade4GM]

Well I posted it, not so much as to whether somebody would give him a max contract or not, but because his appraisial is similar to mine. A little self gratification if you will. I think giving Bosh a max contract is overpaying for him. But I'm also sure that some idiot will give him one. And if no one else in the league does, the idiots may be us.

Don't get me wrong. I like Bosh and I think he would help the team. I just don't think we would be getting our best bang for the buck.

The market is desperate enough for all-star 20/10 PF's that he'll likely get a max contract whether he deserves it or not. Miami, NJ, Chicago, Houston, and most of all Toronto would be so desperate to make use of their cap space that they'll overpay.

 

[Vlade4GM]

That might be true, but I think it's even truer the other way around. As much as Kobe might let on that it's not, his ego is far bigger than LeBron's. You'll struggle to find anyone in the league with a bigger ego than Kobe. Of course, that's not taking anything away from his game.

I disagree. I know a lot of people hate Kobe with a passion here, but he's not as bad as LeBron. Kobe just isn't as ostentatious as LeBron is. LeBron is constantly congratulating himself on his stats, that he won MVP, and that he's such a "team player" (even though he isn't) just because he picks up assists. He's always calling attention to himself and he gets visibly jealous when someone else gets attention instead of him. Maybe it's unfair to compare them at different stages in their career, but that's really the more relevant comparison since we're talking about them possibly playing together.

Despite all the problems he and Shaq had, Kobe did play with him and won 3 championships with him, and there aren't any players in the history of the NBA that can challenge Shaq's title of the biggest ego IMO.

I'm really arguing more against LeBron than for Kobe, just to be clear. Kobe definitely has a big ego, but he's not nearly as much of a whiney baby as LeBron and Shaq types are. Maybe the issue is more one of maturity rather than ego.

 

[bajaden]

The market is desperate enough for all-star 20/10 PF's that he'll likely get a max contract whether he deserves it or not. Miami, NJ, Chicago, Houston, and most of all Toronto would be so desperate to make use of their cap space that they'll overpay.

Yeah, your probably right. I haven't looked at the freeagent list for 2011 yet, but it might be a better idea to not do anything long term until the summer of 2011. Either just roll our capspace over into the next offseason, or do a one year rental, like aquiring someone like Dalembert whose contract expires that summer. We might end up getting a bigger bang for our buck under the new rules.

 

[bajaden]

I disagree. I know a lot of people hate Kobe with a passion here, but he's not as bad as LeBron. Kobe just isn't as ostentatious as LeBron is. LeBron is constantly congratulating himself on his stats, that he won MVP, and that he's such a "team player" (even though he isn't) just because he picks up assists. He's always calling attention to himself and he gets visibly jealous when someone else gets attention instead of him. Maybe it's unfair to compare them at different stages in their career, but that's really the more relevant comparison since we're talking about them possibly playing together.

Despite all the problems he and Shaq had, Kobe did play with him and won 3 championships with him, and there aren't any players in the history of the NBA that can challenge Shaq's title of the biggest ego IMO.

I'm really arguing more against LeBron than for Kobe, just to be clear. Kobe definitely has a big ego, but he's not nearly as much of a whiney baby as LeBron and Shaq types are. Maybe the issue is more one of maturity rather than ego.

Its pretty hard to find a great athlete that doesn't have a big ego. It just comes with the territory. Part of what makes a great athlete great, in any sport is confidence. The confidence that he can outplay anyone. Great athlete's have tremendous belief in their own abilitlies. Now how that displays itself in a public may be different from athlete to athlete, but its there in all of them.

 

[cstorm]

Yeah, your probably right. I haven't looked at the freeagent list for 2011 yet, but it might be a better idea to not do anything long term until the summer of 2011. Either just roll our capspace over into the next offseason, or do a one year rental, like aquiring someone like Dalembert whose contract expires that summer. We might end up getting a bigger bang for our buck under the new rules.

Agreed. Plus when we go shopping for a free agent it will (hopefully) be a team with two young potential superstars on the fast track to a championship!

 

[bajaden]

Well Kentucky lost today. Which means I have only one team left in my final four. Baylor. Who by the way I picked to win the whole thing. This has to be the year of upsets. The only number one seed left is Duke, and I considered them the weakest of the four, but they were in the weakest bracket. Go Baylor!!!!!!!

 

[Kingster]

Well Kentucky lost today. Which means I have only one team left in my final four. Baylor. Who by the way I picked to win the whole thing. This has to be the year of upsets. The only number one seed left is Duke, and I considered them the weakest of the four, but they were in the weakest bracket. Go Baylor!!!!!!!

The best big guy I saw today was Kelly from Kansas State. If the Kansas St. guards would not have gone brain dead and got him the ball in the second half, they go to the Final 4. Kelly has talent. Quickness, coordination, fluidity, length, shooting ability. He's better than Thompson is right now.

Cousins finished shots from great dribble drives by Wall et al, and made one good offensive rebound. Other than that? - Whatever....

 

[bajaden]

The best big guy I saw today was Kelly from Kansas State. If the Kansas St. guards would not have gone brain dead and got him the ball in the second half, they go to the Final 4. Kelly has talent. Quickness, coordination, fluidity, length, shooting ability. He's better than Thompson is right now.

Cousins finished shots from great dribble drives by Wall et al, and made one good offensive rebound. Other than that? - Whatever....

Its one game mi amigo. Kelly's not playing in the NBA. Remember Thompson averaged 24 points and 12 rebounds in college. You can only hope that it translates..

 

[Vlade4GM]

Yeah, your probably right. I haven't looked at the freeagent list for 2011 yet, but it might be a better idea to not do anything long term until the summer of 2011. Either just roll our capspace over into the next offseason, or do a one year rental, like aquiring someone like Dalembert whose contract expires that summer. We might end up getting a bigger bang for our buck under the new rules.

Yeah, I'm starting to think 2011 may be a better idea for us as well. The wrench could be the CBA negotiations though.

 

[Vlade4GM]

Its pretty hard to find a great athlete that doesn't have a big ego. It just comes with the territory. Part of what makes a great athlete great, in any sport is confidence. The confidence that he can outplay anyone. Great athlete's have tremendous belief in their own abilitlies. Now how that displays itself in a public may be different from athlete to athlete, but its there in all of them.

Yes, but I think LeBron feels the need to be seen in a certain light more than Kobe does. I think LeBron is motivated most by adulation, while Kobe is motivated most by winning. He's much more of a competitor than LeBron IMO.

 

[bajaden]

Yes, but I think LeBron feels the need to be seen in a certain light more than Kobe does. I think LeBron is motivated most by adulation, while Kobe is motivated most by winning. He's much more of a competitor than LeBron IMO.

Be as it may, I'll take either one on my team.

 

[est.1999]

So you have a kid who's on covers of magazines when he's a teenager, has media surouding his every move, expectations like we've never seen before, and he exceeds these expectations and you think he doesn't have as much of a desire to win as Kobe does? You're delusional dude. Lebron is building a contender, Kobe was drafted into one and was just handed another one. Would you like to see what lebron would be capable of if he had bynum, gasol, and odom as part of his arsenal? Kobe is a conundrum. Very hard to figure out. Always has been. Kind of an outcast. Anything he does or says to sway people one way or another is just him being his weird self. Lebron just expresses himself. And you know what you're gonna get out of him. With Kobe, you never know what he's gonna do or say.

Bottom line, no way lebron has a bigger ego than Kobe. Kobe chases stats and records. Lebron doesn't give a rats a** about that. Remember when Kobe was trying to break Jordans 40 pt game streak in '03? Lebron gets triple double after triple double and you somehow try to say that him getting assists is still part of his greedy self. Get a grip dude.

 

[Kingster]

Its one game mi amigo. Kelly's not playing in the NBA. Remember Thompson averaged 24 points and 12 rebounds in college. You can only hope that it translates..

Thompson played in a Micky Mouse conference mi agigo...