Kings 2009-2010 NBA Draft:

[hammystyle]

I really have a hard time putting Favors at number three. I mean you may ultimately be right. Its just that, stats aside, because they can be misleading to a degree, he just doesn't impress me the same way some others do. I haven't seen every game. But I've seen at least 10 games if not more. I can't think of one game where I came away thinking wow, that dudes impressive. I would certainly take him ahead of Jarvis Varnado. But you know what. Varnado has had some games this year where I went Wow. Double Wow. I mean the dude just singlehandedly shut down the other teams post play. But Varnado doesn't have the athleticism or the size that Favors has. Not to mention that Favors is a better offensive player right now. I have Cousins at number three. Attitude problems and all.

Hell, I'd hire him his personal shrink if I had to. The kid can play, and his conditioning hasn't been that much of a problem in the games I've seen. He does have a bit of a mean streak in him. If you can get him to channel it into his play, you might have something special. One thing you can say about him. He likes to compete and win. He's not lazy out on the floor. He plays hard. Yes, once in a while he's late getting back. But those instances are becoming fewer and fewer. He also likes to bang inside. At times he seems to really enjoy punishing whomever he's up against. I doubt you'll ever see him hanging out at the three point stripe.

Fair enough, can't argue the logic. Its not that I wouln't be thrilled to get Cousins, its ust I'd take Favors first and feel good about it. Either way I see those guys as clear top 4 guys with Wall and Turner. Particularly in the prism of the Kings needs. Johnson would be 5, but the Kings don't need him. Then there's the mishmash of Monroe/Aldrich/Whiteside/Davis that I hope we're not choosing from.

 

[KingGiant49erFan]

Fair enough, can't argue the logic. Its not that I wouln't be thrilled to get Cousins, its ust I'd take Favors first and feel good about it. Either way I see those guys as clear top 4 guys with Wall and Turner. Particularly in the prism of the Kings needs. Johnson would be 5, but the Kings don't need him. Then there's the mishmash of Monroe/Aldrich/Whiteside/Davis that I hope we're not choosing from.

Could you please elaborate on why Johnson wouldn't fit? I'm in europe this year and dont have a chance to follow college but from what I understand he is seen as a) athletic b) plus defender c) very good three point shooter, and d) has been consistently referenced as the perfect sidekick type.. sounds amazing for tyreke imo

 

[Vlade4GM]

Could you please elaborate on why Johnson wouldn't fit? I'm in europe this year and dont have a chance to follow college but from what I understand he is seen as a) athletic b) plus defender c) very good three point shooter, and d) has been consistently referenced as the perfect sidekick type.. sounds amazing for tyreke imo

I think he meant that we already have a bunch of wings on the team. Johnson would fit on any team though.

 

[Kingster]

No, I wouldn't want to baby him every step of the way. Of course not. But lets not forget were talking about a 18 year old kid here. I'm certainly not going to brand him defective for life because he's immature right now. This is his first real exposure to the real world. Up until now he's been catered to and babied. Could he turn out to be a tempermental problem child for a long time? Sure! Its also just as possible that he learns while he's there. He has improved with controling his temper as the year has gone on. Lets face it, Rasheed Wallace has been a problem child for his entire career. He's better now, but he's still no angel. But he's also one hell of a basketball player. If, and its a big if, Cousins is capable of turning into a 25 and 12 player, that plays decent defense, then I could learn to put up with some problems.

Could you give a run down on what exactly Cousins has done that brands him as head case. I did see the game where he punished a guy on the floor with his big body. Yeah, that was immature, but I kind of liked it.

 

[asakkings]

He's very moody and complains a lot during games. I was watching UK vs Miss st when Calipari had to pull him out of the game to tell him to sit down and shut up. You can read his lips when he said that, it was funny.

 

[TTown Kings]

Could you please elaborate on why Johnson wouldn't fit? I'm in europe this year and dont have a chance to follow college but from what I understand he is seen as a) athletic b) plus defender c) very good three point shooter, and d) has been consistently referenced as the perfect sidekick type.. sounds amazing for tyreke imo

We already have Donte and Casspi at the three, we don't need another wing unless he can play the 2.

 

[bajaden]

We already have Donte and Casspi at the three, we don't need another wing unless he can play the 2.

He can play the two or the three. I like Johnson a lot. He's a better outside shooter than either Wall or Turner and a very good athlete. His weakness, if you can call it that is his ballhandling and passing. But to be honest those would only be considered a weakness when compared to Wall and turner. Like Turner he's a terrific rebounder for his position and while he's a good defender, he's not as good a defender as turner.

He's definitely a top 6 pick in my opinion.

 

[bajaden]

I hope some of you got to see Turner earlier today. At three o'clock Pacific time Mississippi St. plays South Carolina. A chance to see Jarvis Varnado of Miss ST. on ESPN.

At six o'lock pacific time, Villanova takes on Wesley Johnson and Syracuse. Also on ESPN.. More on Turner later. And I'm interested in any feedback some of you might have that saw the game..

 

[Vlade4GM]

If Wall, Turner, Favors, and Cousins are off the board, we'd be crazy to pass on Johnson. I don't care if it's a log jam, you make it work period. After Johnson I think there's a pretty big step down in talent.

 

[hammystyle]

I hope some of you got to see Turner earlier today. At three o'clock Pacific time Mississippi St. plays South Carolina. A chance to see Jarvis Varnado of Miss ST. on ESPN.

At six o'lock pacific time, Villanova takes on Wesley Johnson and Syracuse. Also on ESPN.. More on Turner later. And I'm interested in any feedback some of you might have that saw the game..

I saw it...first time I've gotten to see Turner play since early in the season before the back injury. Not only that, but was able to go back and forth between that and the Kentucky game with Wall to do a little compare and contrast.

Allowing for the fact that what I've just seen may be too strongly influencing my whole judgment..here were my thoughts afterwards:

1) I had questioned why Turner was seen as a better fit next to Tyreke then Wall...but that's over. Its pretty obvious to me now. Turner, while fantastic with the ball doesn't need it to make a major impact across the game. What's more he seems to bring out the best in Buford and Lighty who share some skillsets with Tyreke.
2) Turner I could see developing an offensive game similar to Paul Pierce, quick cuts, iso's, post-ups and a good midrange shot. OSU needs him to handle the ball and run the offense, but when he plays off the ball that's immediately who I thought of. Soooo, his upside is Paul Pierce with much better handles and passing.
3) Not only for Kings fit, but overall I'm starting to inch Turner into 1B to Wall's 1A. I say that feeling even though I think Wall is a combo of Wade and AI athletically with a good feel for passing. Superstar potential HOF prospect. But Turner's game is tailor-made for the NBA.
4) If we got the #1 or #2, forget about trading down for Favors or Cousins...if you get #1 try and trade for the #2 and Turner. If you can't trade down, just take Turner.

 

[bajaden]

I saw it...first time I've gotten to see Turner play since early in the season before the back injury. Not only that, but was able to go back and forth between that and the Kentucky game with Wall to do a little compare and contrast.

Allowing for the fact that what I've just seen may be too strongly influencing my whole judgment..here were my thoughts afterwards:

1) I had questioned why Turner was seen as a better fit next to Tyreke then Wall...but that's over. Its pretty obvious to me now. Turner, while fantastic with the ball doesn't need it to make a major impact across the game. What's more he seems to bring out the best in Buford and Lighty who share some skillsets with Tyreke.
2) Turner I could see developing an offensive game similar to Paul Pierce, quick cuts, iso's, post-ups and a good midrange shot. OSU needs him to handle the ball and run the offense, but when he plays off the ball that's immediately who I thought of. Soooo, his upside is Paul Pierce with much better handles and passing.
3) Not only for Kings fit, but overall I'm starting to inch Turner into 1B to Wall's 1A. I say that feeling even though I think Wall is a combo of Wade and AI athletically with a good feel for passing. Superstar potential HOF prospect. But Turner's game is tailor-made for the NBA.
4) If we got the #1 or #2, forget about trading down for Favors or Cousins...if you get #1 try and trade for the #2 and Turner. If you can't trade down, just take Turner.

Pretty accurate description of Turners game. His only weakness is the three point shot. Which he really doesn't need because of his ability to create off the dribble for either himself, or one of his teammates. He makes handling the ball seem effortless.

For those that didn't see the game his line was:

18 points on 8 out of 11 shooting. 11 rebounds. 7 assists. 1 steal and 4 blocked shots. He's a very unselfish player that can take over a game when he needs to.

 

[hammystyle]

Pretty accurate description of Turners game. His only weakness is the three point shot. Which he really doesn't need because of his ability to create off the dribble for either himself, or one of his teammates. He makes handling the ball seem effortless.

For those that didn't see the game his line was:

18 points on 8 out of 11 shooting. 11 rebounds. 7 assists. 1 steal and 4 blocked shots. He's a very unselfish player that can take over a game when he needs to.

Looking at his shot, I'll bet he could knock down open 3's if he got them. Its something he'll probly get more of in the pro's. But OSU doesn't set anything up for that. He runs the offense 80% of the time, and the rest he is cutting down into the post and coming of down screens into the mid-range because that part of his game is so strong. He's taken 33 three's this year and made a low percentage, but I'll bet at least half were shot-clock beaters.

 

[bajaden]

Looking at his shot, I'll bet he could knock down open 3's if he got them. Its something he'll probly get more of in the pro's. But OSU doesn't set anything up for that. He runs the offense 80% of the time, and the rest he is cutting down into the post and coming of down screens into the mid-range because that part of his game is so strong. He's taken 33 three's this year and made a low percentage, but I'll bet at least half were shot-clock beaters.

I think its just a matter of not really looking for the three poiint shot. As I said he has good form on his shot and his midrange shot is so good as is his ability to get it. He's one of those guys that I think will be a better pro than he was a college player. And he's not bad in college.

 

[Fear the Putin]

Hassan Whiteside: 14 pts, 11 reb, 13 blks

Beasty

 

[Vlade4GM]

I'd love for us to get a second 1st rounder to take a shot on Whiteside.

 

[bajaden]

I'd love for us to get a second 1st rounder to take a shot on Whiteside.

No argument from me. He's leading college in blocked shots this year. Its a close battle between him and Varnado with I think, three games left before the tournamant. Of course there's no guarantee he'll declare for the draft this year.

 

[Sptsjunkie]

I think its just a matter of not really looking for the three poiint shot. As I said he has good form on his shot and his midrange shot is so good as is his ability to get it. He's one of those guys that I think will be a better pro than he was a college player. And he's not bad in college.

I'm really hoping we can get Turner (assuming we don't get Wall). I think he would be perfect for us, based on what I have seen and read so far. And for whatever reason, I have a strange feeling our karma has turned a bit this year and it could be the season we jump up in the lottery. Just to be safe though, instead of sending a #4 to the lottery as our rep, I am casting an early vote for Travis Maybs (#1), Vlade ( #2 and 1) or Reke (#1 and 3)

Even if we don't get lucky in the lottery though. We will probably have the assets needed to jump up 2-4 spots and get Turner. This might be the year we make a trade to add a second young star potential player.

 

[bajaden]

Could you give a run down on what exactly Cousins has done that brands him as head case. I did see the game where he punished a guy on the floor with his big body. Yeah, that was immature, but I kind of liked it.

Sorry, I took so long to get back to you. He has a temper, and at times he lets it get the better of him. He's gotten a couple of technicals for being a little too heated when discussing calls with the officals. He's also argued with Calipari about being taken out of the game at times. Now to his credit, or perhaps Calipari's credit, the incidents have become fewer and fewer. There's no doubt that he has a little mean streak in him though. Which to a certain degree, I like. He plays tough and doesn't back down from anyone.

Another knock on him prior to this season was that he seemed to look bored and lose interest on the floor at times. To be honest, I just haven't seen that. Yeah, sometimes he's a little late gettng back on defense, but by and large he hustles almost all the time. I think the lackadaisical thing was just some carry over from highschool. He probably dominated so easily in highschool that he did get bored by the lack of competition.

 

[hammystyle]

I'd love for us to get a second 1st rounder to take a shot on Whiteside.

It'll be tough because I think he'll be a top 10 guy.m Possibly as high as 6 or 7. I think in general though, this is a great year to grab a 2nd first rounder because the draft is deep in big men. I think the syndrome will be similar to last year with PG's where guys like Lawson and Collison got pushed down the board because they wre ranked 7th or 8th amongst their position.

 

[Vlade4GM]

No argument from me. He's leading college in blocked shots this year. Its a close battle between him and Varnado with I think, three games left before the tournamant. Of course there's no guarantee he'll declare for the draft this year.

He'd be stupid not to, he's pretty old for his class.

 

[bajaden]

He'd be stupid not to, he's pretty old for his class.

Thats true, but the old part is more important to us than it might be to him. I doubt he would go any higher than 6 or 7 this year, and its possible he could slip down into the teens. A lot of teams will remember Thabeet from last year, and what happens when you draft a player too high for his talent level. If he stays another year in college he might be a top three pick next year.

I have no doubt he'll at least throw his hat into the ring and see what feedback or promisies he'll get.

 

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

Whiteside seems like 'that guy' this year. The one player who will jump into the top ten after workouts and all that.

The second half of the first round is looking better than it did earlier in the season. I'd love to grab another first. Guys like Alabi, Sanders, Udoh, and Pittman are sliding, and if we get lucky and draft Turner or Wall, there will still be 5 or so decent big man prospects from 20-30.

 

[bajaden]

Whiteside seems like 'that guy' this year. The one player who will jump into the top ten after workouts and all that.

The second half of the first round is looking better than it did earlier in the season. I'd love to grab another first. Guys like Alabi, Sanders, Udoh, and Pittman are sliding, and if we get lucky and draft Turner or Wall, there will still be 5 or so decent big man prospects from 20-30.

No argument there. Actually some of them just might slip into the top of the second round. Guys like Parakhouski and Varnado are possiblities there. There are also guys like Damion James that will be in the lower half of the first round. Except for Wall, its not a good year for point guards, so I'm curious to see if some of those available get overvalued. Guys like Kalin Lucas or Sherron Collins.

 

[Kingster]

Sorry, I took so long to get back to you. He has a temper, and at times he lets it get the better of him. He's gotten a couple of technicals for being a little too heated when discussing calls with the officals. He's also argued with Calipari about being taken out of the game at times. Now to his credit, or perhaps Calipari's credit, the incidents have become fewer and fewer. There's no doubt that he has a little mean streak in him though. Which to a certain degree, I like. He plays tough and doesn't back down from anyone.

Another knock on him prior to this season was that he seemed to look bored and lose interest on the floor at times. To be honest, I just haven't seen that. Yeah, sometimes he's a little late gettng back on defense, but by and large he hustles almost all the time. I think the lackadaisical thing was just some carry over from highschool. He probably dominated so easily in highschool that he did get bored by the lack of competition.

I guess we'll let the detectives figure out whether he's just a little immature or a bad kid. The thing I always am concerned about are who a guy likes this associates with. If his buds are good guys, chances are he's going to be just fine. If not, then you don't want to get close to him.

 

[Kingster]

I wish I can remember where I read it but an NBA scout said it's next to impossible for a big man to learn the post game after he is in the pros. If he does not possess a solid post game before he enters the league then he probably never will. Reasons? The coach will not put the ball in said player's hands in the post and the defenders in the NBA are so dominant that it makes the learning curve too steep. It's evolves into a cycle that feeds on itself with the young player repeatedly not getting opportunity in the post or failing to deliver in the post until the day he retires. And it's an observation that is very much true except for maybe a handful of cases.

In other words, a young talented big man can stunt his offensive growth if he enters the NBA too early.

With that in mind with regard to the Favors vs Cousins debate, I like Favors but I want him to stay in college until he develops a good low post game. If Favors declares for the draft this summer, I'd be very nervous using a top five pick on him. Favors has a developing low post game that is just that: developing. If he enters the NBA this year, I don't think he'll ever become the low post guy that he can be. And since he doesn't have much of a face-up game, it's going to be a challenge for him to turn into a high-scoring forward. He'll still be a good pro but I'm not sold that he'll be an all-star until he shows me the ability to score on the block and create his own shots in college.

Cousins, on the other hand, is ready to play in the NBA now. His low post scoring and his rebounding translate well to the NBA. He can be a 14 and 9 guy right now if he plays in the NBA, and in a few years he has the ability to be a legit 20-10 guy. His immaturity and his temper are not deal breakers. Charles Barkley was a lazy immature brat who clashed with his college coach. He turned out alright. And you can't tell me that Shaq, Rasheed, Karl Malone, Dennis Rodman, Vin Baker, Shawn Kemp, etc are model citizens. A lot of talented big man come with warning labels. I'd rather Cousins be grounded like Tim Duncan but that's not going to happen. What I'm saying is, I'm not going to turn down a 20-10 guy for a raw athletic PF with upside but still needs a lot of growth to get there.

Just my two cents.

.

That's very interesting about the learning curve of big men. It makes total sense. Unless a coach really has a long term perspective, he's going to sacrifice the low post development of his young center. Maybe that's one factor why there are so few young bigs with good low post games. How many bigs who come out with one or two years have good post games?

 

[Kingster]

I saw it...first time I've gotten to see Turner play since early in the season before the back injury. Not only that, but was able to go back and forth between that and the Kentucky game with Wall to do a little compare and contrast.

Allowing for the fact that what I've just seen may be too strongly influencing my whole judgment..here were my thoughts afterwards:

1) I had questioned why Turner was seen as a better fit next to Tyreke then Wall...but that's over. Its pretty obvious to me now. Turner, while fantastic with the ball doesn't need it to make a major impact across the game. What's more he seems to bring out the best in Buford and Lighty who share some skillsets with Tyreke.
2) Turner I could see developing an offensive game similar to Paul Pierce, quick cuts, iso's, post-ups and a good midrange shot. OSU needs him to handle the ball and run the offense, but when he plays off the ball that's immediately who I thought of. Soooo, his upside is Paul Pierce with much better handles and passing.
3) Not only for Kings fit, but overall I'm starting to inch Turner into 1B to Wall's 1A. I say that feeling even though I think Wall is a combo of Wade and AI athletically with a good feel for passing. Superstar potential HOF prospect. But Turner's game is tailor-made for the NBA.
4) If we got the #1 or #2, forget about trading down for Favors or Cousins...if you get #1 try and trade for the #2 and Turner. If you can't trade down, just take Turner.

If we got Turner, we'd have the best defensive backcourt in the NBA, not three years from now, but Day 1. It' would be scary good on the defensive end.

 

[=LarryLegend=]

If we got Turner, we'd have the best defensive backcourt in the NBA, not three years from now, but Day 1. It' would be scary good on the defensive end.

Reke, Turner and a conditioned Cisco would be sick.

 

[KingGiant49erFan]

I'm sure this has been discussed but in regard to Cousins vs Favors this pick basically determines the team that we are attempting to be (i.e. half court or running).. with Tyreke's uncanny ability to crash the defensive boards and start the break, wouldn't a pairing of him and Favors be deadly? I suppose another view could be that we can get another wing or two to run with him and then have Cousins for when the game slows down.. Having been in europe all year and not being able to a) watch too many kings games and b) not watch any college games what is your take?

 

[bajaden]

I'm sure this has been discussed but in regard to Cousins vs Favors this pick basically determines the team that we are attempting to be (i.e. half court or running).. with Tyreke's uncanny ability to crash the defensive boards and start the break, wouldn't a pairing of him and Favors be deadly? I suppose another view could be that we can get another wing or two to run with him and then have Cousins for when the game slows down.. Having been in europe all year and not being able to a) watch too many kings games and b) not watch any college games what is your take?

Well I think its a little bit of apples and oranges. By that I mean Cousins is a center and Favors is a Power forward. So first I think you have to address which of those positions has the most need. Assuming that Thompson improves over the next year and a half and that the Kings intend to keep him at the power forward position, then our need would be at the center position.

But, If they decide to move Thompson to the center position, then our need would be at power forward. In which case I would lean toward Favors. Not being a mind reader I can't answer those questions. But I believe those questions are the ones that will influence their decision.

 

[netseee]

If we can not get cousins, I may consider to pick Hassan Whiteside in stead of Favors