King Keegan

2

206Fan

All-Star
#301
#301
I thought Keegan played great D in the 1st quarter against RJ Barrett, but it tapered away in the 2nd half of the game where he had some brutal possessions. In the 3rd quarter, RJ Barrett started to control the pace of the game and the Knicks started their comeback.

When they were making their 3rd quarter run, they targeted Keegan on defense in consecutive possessions where he wasn't able to hold his own:
https://twitter.com/statuses/1634641813377265664

This was the play that got him benched in the 4th:
https://twitter.com/statuses/1634673138196975617

Keegan has improved in the passing lanes, but I'm not seeing the defensive prowess some are starting to claim. Right now, I would rate his defense as average. Needs to get quicker/stronger, but stronger is easier than getting quicker.
 
SacTownKid

SacTownKid

Hall of Famer
#302
#302
206Fan said:
I thought Keegan played great D in the 1st quarter against RJ Barrett, but it tapered away in the 2nd half of the game where he had some brutal possessions. In the 3rd quarter, RJ Barrett started to control the pace of the game and the Knicks started their comeback.

When they were making their 3rd quarter run, they targeted Keegan on defense in consecutive possessions where he wasn't able to hold his own:
https://twitter.com/statuses/1634641813377265664

This was the play that got him benched in the 4th:
https://twitter.com/statuses/1634673138196975617

Keegan has improved in the passing lanes, but I'm not seeing the defensive prowess some are starting to claim. Right now, I would rate his defense as average. Needs to get quicker/stronger, but stronger is easier than getting quicker.
Click to expand...
Yeah, they really started to attack him laterally and vertically late but there's still a bit of a double standard going on. Keegan has some major ups and downs on defense but he definitely gets the early yank because of he's a rookie. Brown has kind of been using him as a message sender to the rest of the team, haha.
 
iowamcnabb

iowamcnabb

All-Star
#303
#303
SacTownKid said:
Yeah, they really started to attack him laterally and vertically late but there's still a bit of a double standard going on. Keegan has some major ups and downs on defense but he definitely gets the early yank because of he's a rookie. Brown has kind of been using him as a message sender to the rest of the team, haha.
Click to expand...
I also thought they should have worked him back into the game earlier after that first quarter showing. He sat for longer then he should have given his impact in that stretch
 
hrdboild

hrdboild

Moloch in whom I dream Angels!
Staff member
#304
#304
206Fan said:
I thought Keegan played great D in the 1st quarter against RJ Barrett, but it tapered away in the 2nd half of the game where he had some brutal possessions. In the 3rd quarter, RJ Barrett started to control the pace of the game and the Knicks started their comeback.

When they were making their 3rd quarter run, they targeted Keegan on defense in consecutive possessions where he wasn't able to hold his own:
https://twitter.com/statuses/1634641813377265664

This was the play that got him benched in the 4th:
https://twitter.com/statuses/1634673138196975617

Keegan has improved in the passing lanes, but I'm not seeing the defensive prowess some are starting to claim. Right now, I would rate his defense as average. Needs to get quicker/stronger, but stronger is easier than getting quicker.
Click to expand...
I don't think any of these are bad defensive plays by Murray. Obviously the result was not what we wanted but there was a good contest on the first shot, on the layup the offensive player initiated the contact by ripping through and got the foul call. Rookies almost always get hung out to dry by those calls. And on the in-bounds play they literally built a wall of defenders and illegally held him so he couldn't get around it. It was a clever gimmick play and a little bit of illegal contact which was hidden from the refs.
 
iowamcnabb

iowamcnabb

All-Star
#310
#310
All Nba rookie team is going to be a tough call. Right now Vecenie has moved Jalen Williams into the top 5 and has Keegan at 6. Murray’s situation is pretty unique as he is the only rookie starting and the 4th or 5th option on a playoff team. Pretty hard to ignore the advance stats, 2 rookie of the months and the chance to break the rookie 3 pointer record. Someone is going to get snubbed
 
E

ESP47

All-Star
#311
#311
iowamcnabb said:
All Nba rookie team is going to be a tough call. Right now Vecenie has moved Jalen Williams into the top 5 and has Keegan at 6. Murray’s situation is pretty unique as he is the only rookie starting and the 4th or 5th option on a playoff team. Pretty hard to ignore the advance stats, 2 rookie of the months and the chance to break the rookie 3 pointer record. Someone is going to get snubbed
Click to expand...
I know you don't want to hear it but I've got Jalen Williams ahead of Keegan now. He can't quite shoot like Keegan but he basically does everything else better at the moment.
 
SacTownKid

SacTownKid

Hall of Famer
#313
#313
iowamcnabb said:
he’s a really good player no doubt. I do think if Keegan played for OKC he would be probably be putting up more scoring than Jalen but it’s hard to say
Click to expand...
It would be interesting. The obvious difference is Williams can run pick and roll but he also had a bit of a rough go considering he was 3rd in line with SGA healthy and Giddey there. Williams is putting up 21, 6, and 5 since getting more of a share. Do that for the whole year and he's in the ROY debate. Keegan would be an interesting call, he's clearly has had a different game in the NBA so far and the questions were and still are if he can produce points with his current handling and playmaking abilities.
 
SacTownKid

SacTownKid

Hall of Famer
#314
#314
ESP47 said:
I know you don't want to hear it but I've got Jalen Williams ahead of Keegan now. He can't quite shoot like Keegan but he basically does everything else better at the moment.
Click to expand...
Keegans had a really up and down year and he's obviously been used as a role guy so if players like Williams keep getting garbage opportunities it's going to be a tough road to making it for Keegan.
 
iowamcnabb

iowamcnabb

All-Star
#315
#315
SacTownKid said:
Keegans had a really up and down year and he's obviously been used as a role guy so if players like Williams keep getting garbage opportunities it's going to be a tough road to making it for Keegan.
Click to expand...

Jalen also had 3 years of college ball to develop against better competition even though they are around the same age ( he turns 22 in a few weeks). They aren’t similar as players but have similar backgrounds as late bloomers with big growth spurts in high school and big year over year improvements in college
 
T

The_Jamal

Hall of Famer
#318
#318
ESP47 said:
I know you don't want to hear it but I've got Jalen Williams ahead of Keegan now. He can't quite shoot like Keegan but he basically does everything else better at the moment.
Click to expand...
Paolo
Kessler
Williams
Keegan

are my clear top 4. They'll probably force Ivey and Mathurin in at spots 4 and 5, but they really shouldn't. Both guys have been overhyped all year on bad teams. Keegan's numbers are better than both as a starter on a good team, he just doesn't get a 25% USG rate like they do to put up the same counting stats.
 
T

The_Jamal

Hall of Famer
#319
#319
iowamcnabb said:
All Nba rookie team is going to be a tough call. Right now Vecenie has moved Jalen Williams into the top 5 and has Keegan at 6. Murray’s situation is pretty unique as he is the only rookie starting and the 4th or 5th option on a playoff team. Pretty hard to ignore the advance stats, 2 rookie of the months and the chance to break the rookie 3 pointer record. Someone is going to get snubbed
Click to expand...
I'd have no problem with Jalen over Keegan right now. He's shown legit like point-forward skills and an insanely valuable skill-set that few other wings in the league have. And he's actually been super productive for a surprisingly good OKC team. Like Keegan, he's been a big part of their winning. Presti did it again, Williams looks like a real ascending 2-way wing.

Ivey and Mathurin to me have just looked like typical young rookie chuckers that don't impact winning in the slightest. Not that it can't change, but there's no world where you tell me they're having better seasons or they're better basketball players than Keegan is this season.
 
2

206Fan

All-Star
#320
#320
iowamcnabb said:
he’s a really good player no doubt. I do think if Keegan played for OKC he would be probably be putting up more scoring than Jalen but it’s hard to say
Click to expand...
I’m not sure if you’ve been watching much OKC basketball, but for the month of March, Jalen Williams has been averaging 21.7pts 4.9asts 6.1rebs on 58.5/52.4/83.8. In the games he’s played, they’ve gone 5-2. They’re still in the mix for play-ins.

Williams is absolutely the real deal and he’s had a better rookie year than Keegan. He would’ve been ROY if OKC gave him green light since the beginning of the season, but they didn’t.
 
2

206Fan

All-Star
#321
#321
Keegan’s slumps have been bad. Feels like there’s no consistency there and we have no clue what type of player we’re getting each night. I know he’s just a rookie, but it’s been a season-long theme. He needs to play more confidently in himself. I don’t really pay attention to the rookie All-NBA, but if he starts playing good again, the chips will fall in his favor.
 
M

midtowner

Starter
#322
#322
Keegan has been excellent for a rookie on one of the all-time greatest offenses. I watched Jalen Williams bust my alma maters butt, so I knew he’d be good. Ivey’s playmaking is leaps and bounds from where he started. This rookie crop has been outstanding. I even need to eat crow in my Jabari Smith take from 3-weeks ago.
 
T

The_Jamal

Hall of Famer
#323
#323
206Fan said:
Keegan’s slumps have been bad. Feels like there’s no consistency there and we have no clue what type of player we’re getting each night. I know he’s just a rookie, but it’s been a season-long theme. He needs to play more confidently in himself. I don’t really pay attention to the rookie All-NBA, but if he starts playing good again, the chips will fall in his favor.
Click to expand...
Hmm. I wonder how much of it is him slumping and him not being to play through the slump like every other lotto pick? So the bad games really stick out since Brown pulls him early and he's not a feature part of the 2nd half.

He hasn't been great in March for sure, but the Kings are also basically playing playoff basketball and are expected to play at a super high level right now. I just think the measuring stick has to be different for a rookie starting on the 2 seed in the west vs bottom feeder/bad basketball teams where they get full control of the offense.
 
2

206Fan

All-Star
#324
#324
The_Jamal said:
Hmm. I wonder how much of it is him slumping and him not being to play through the slump like every other lotto pick? So the bad games really stick out since Brown pulls him early and he's not a feature part of the 2nd half.

He hasn't been great in March for sure, but the Kings are also basically playing playoff basketball and are expected to play at a super high level right now. I just think the measuring stick has to be different for a rookie starting on the 2 seed in the west vs bottom feeder/bad basketball teams where they get full control of the offense.
Click to expand...
I don't like the excuse of the Kings being a playoff team as a reason why Keegan doesn't have more shots/points. Mike Brown has publicly said that he wants Keegan to be more aggressive with the ball. The team also plays a really unselfish style of basketball so it's not like he doesn't have the opportunities. In the month of March, there's only 2 games where he played 20 mins or under, and he's still averaging 26.8mpg. The only time he's been yanked were against Phoenix and Milwaukee. I think he has a pretty long leash. Brown has been rightfully patient with him.

The other side of this "playoff coin" is that the team asks very little of him. All we want is for him to make open 3s and play solid defense. There's minimal pressure. Think about all the busts and draft picks we've had in the past 5-6 years... none of them have ever had it as good as Keegan does. In the starting lineup, he gets to play with 2 All-Stars who constantly set him up. He has a veteran wing in Barnes who takes all of the hard matchups. Then you have Kevin who's one of the better shooters in the league.

I'm not asking him to score 20pts a night and make 50% of his 3s. I just want to see him play more consistent out there. Against Milwaukee he went 2-7 and put up duds while offering no rebounding or defense. He comes back the next game against Chicago also going 2-7, but he at least gives you 10 rebounds this time and solid defense. But then there are nights where he goes out there and gives you 15 good points on great shooting, but only 3 rebounds.

I feel like he hasn't really figured out how to put it all together yet. I think he needs to find a way to bring it on a daily basis.
 
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