KG to the Kings??? (merged)
- Thread starter DaMan
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Sptsjunkie
Starter
Even if it included a draft pick, it could easily be done after the draft if the Kings drafted for Minnesota. That is common practice in the NBA; however, at that point both teams would be commited to the deal. So if the Kings make a stupid choice with the 19th pick and they select a mediocre veteran with a bad contract, we know they were doing it for the Wolves.
Sptsjunkie
Starter
You're right that the deal seems sketchy, since hypotheticaly the Kings could not have spoken with Bonzi yet about his future. However, it's very possible that they bent the rules, like Corliss said they did when they got him to resign cheap at the last second, and have already spoken to Bonzi this summer or that they explored the possibility last season during a legitimate trade window. Keeping that in mind, it's possible that he either likes Minnesota, even sans KG, possibly because all he cares about is money for this contract or that this is really a 3-way trade where Bonzi goes to a different team that we don't know about since only part of the trade had leaked.
Viking
Starter
punching a rookie on his own team for scoring on him during practice, his conduct while playing us in that series/just playing us in general/ his all-around attitude/ego
Padrino
All-Star
this is certainly a possibility. the interesting monkey wrench in the works, though, is bonzi wells. given that no team can speak to bonzi wells about his status until july first--after the draft--there is no way that both teams would commit to a deal before the draft with bonzi's free agency in limbo. in one instance, it would be unethical, because if the teams did commit to the deal before the draft, that means they know something we don't, and had spoken to wells before nba rules allow. in another instance, it would be extremely stupid, because both bonzi wells and kevin garnett have the ability in this situation to veto the deal by simply saying, "no, i don't want to play for them," had they not agreed prior to the decision (ie: before teams can talk to wells). kevin mchale may or may not be that stupid, but i know geoff petrie is definitely not stupid. the only scenario in which this trade goes down is if bonzi wells is not involved. that could be a positive given that a core of artest/wells/garnett is extremely tough. it could also be a negative because then mike bibby would be involved in the trade, and the team is without a suitable starting PG. dunno which scenario i like more, but i do know that the second scenario involving mike bibby is much more likely. of course, it makes no difference if a draft pick is not involved. then both teams can wait until after the draft anyways. however, i don't see the t-wolves making any trade with any team involving kevin garnett if a draft pick isn't involved.
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sidney
Starter
good point...forgot about that punching incident. hopefully he was just having a bad hair day and it wasn't a pattern.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Oh I'd be willing to bet said rookie had a little lip for him after scoring.
Having plastered a few people in my own day for opening their traps, that one never bothered that much.
Only the wolves could find a way to select a mediocre veteran with a bad contract with a draft pick.
Sptsjunkie
Starter
the only scenario in which this trade goes down is if bonzi wells is not involved. that could be a positive given that a core of artest/wells/garnett is extremely tough. it could also be a negative because then mike bibby would be involved in the trade, and the team is without a suitable starting PG. dunno which scenario i like more,
A few people have expressed this opinion and it completely confuses me. I think keeping Bibby is key if this deal happens (although I would still do it with him included). IT is much harder to find a legit NBA point guard than SG/SF. We've been pampered with Bibby, has everyone forgotten the Hurley/Edny/Abdul Rauf/Johnson days. With Garnett on the team we would be gaining another player who can post up and rebound. With Garnett and Artest, what we will need is shooting to open up the middle for them.
Also, considering we only have one MLE, we can only sign one good FA. To make this point more tangible, let's say that for the MLE, we can have Pryzbilla or Claxton. If we are able to make the trade with Bonzi, our core team is:
PG - Bibby/Hart/Price
SG - K-Mart/Cisco/Artest
SF - Artest/Cisco
PF - KG/Reef
C - Pryz
With Bibby gone, our team is either:
PG - Claxton/Hart/Price
SG - Bonzi/KMart/Cisco
SF - Artest/Cisco/Bonzi
PF - KG/Reef
C - none
or
PG - Hart/Price
SG - Bonzi/Kmart/Cisco
SF - Artest/Cisco/Bonzi
PF - KG/Reef
C - Pryz
Either one of the second two lineups would have a major hole. In fact even if we managed to get both Pryz and Claxton for the MLE cuase they both really wanted to play for a winner, teams would still treat us like the Nuggets and clog the middle on every play. Our team has not three point shooting.
So while I would do either trade, cause KG is a legitimate superstar and those are rare, there's no question in my mind that the Bonzi deal is preferable. Our team has enough depth at SG/SF that we can easily fill his void, KG fills his reboudning and post role, and the Kings can use the MLE to plug their one weakness at center.
A few people have expressed this opinion and it completely confuses me. I think keeping Bibby is key if this deal happens (although I would still do it with him included). IT is much harder to find a legit NBA point guard than SG/SF. We've been pampered with Bibby, has everyone forgotten the Hurley/Edny/Abdul Rauf/Johnson days. With Garnett on the team we would be gaining another player who can post up and rebound. With Garnett and Artest, what we will need is shooting to open up the middle for them.
Also, considering we only have one MLE, we can only sign one good FA. To make this point more tangible, let's say that for the MLE, we can have Pryzbilla or Claxton. If we are able to make the trade with Bonzi, our core team is:
PG - Bibby/Hart/Price
SG - K-Mart/Cisco/Artest
SF - Artest/Cisco
PF - KG/Reef
C - Pryz
With Bibby gone, our team is either:
PG - Claxton/Hart/Price
SG - Bonzi/KMart/Cisco
SF - Artest/Cisco/Bonzi
PF - KG/Reef
C - none
or
PG - Hart/Price
SG - Bonzi/Kmart/Cisco
SF - Artest/Cisco/Bonzi
PF - KG/Reef
C - Pryz
Either one of the second two lineups would have a major hole. In fact even if we managed to get both Pryz and Claxton for the MLE cuase they both really wanted to play for a winner, teams would still treat us like the Nuggets and clog the middle on every play. Our team has not three point shooting.
So while I would do either trade, cause KG is a legitimate superstar and those are rare, there's no question in my mind that the Bonzi deal is preferable. Our team has enough depth at SG/SF that we can easily fill his void, KG fills his reboudning and post role, and the Kings can use the MLE to plug their one weakness at center.
DocHolliday
Starter
Money wise you couldn't have Brad, KT and Bibby in the deal right?? I mean that adds up to high. Isn't garnett making like 18 mill?? I guess the deal could go Brad and Bibby plus a pick, but I just don't think that 3 contract players would do the deal. That wouldn't be in the right percentage within Garnett's salary I don't think at least.
DocHolliday
Starter
Ok I'm on realgm right now. Brad and Mike for Garnett works. KT and Brad for Garnett does not work. Brad, KT, Bibby for Garnett does not work. You can't check Bonzi Wells because he has no contract currently.
So the it would be Bibby and Brad + the pick, or Bonzi and Brad + the pick.
If the pick is included and it's NOT finalized before the draft. Assuming that Sacramento is going to draft for Minnesota, this leaves the Kings in a situation. YOu can't talk to someone like Joel Pryzbilla till July 1st, to guarantee you can sign him. So, all this being solidified verbally before the draft leaves us without a center, and an uncertain future about our center situatino for the upcoming season. I mean you're basically betting that you'll be able to steal someone like Pryzbilla for SURE.
So the it would be Bibby and Brad + the pick, or Bonzi and Brad + the pick.
If the pick is included and it's NOT finalized before the draft. Assuming that Sacramento is going to draft for Minnesota, this leaves the Kings in a situation. YOu can't talk to someone like Joel Pryzbilla till July 1st, to guarantee you can sign him. So, all this being solidified verbally before the draft leaves us without a center, and an uncertain future about our center situatino for the upcoming season. I mean you're basically betting that you'll be able to steal someone like Pryzbilla for SURE.
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hammystyle
Starter
Junkie - I completely agree. Its a no-brainer that if given the choice we keep Bibby over Bonzi. Bibby's shortcomings on defense get a lot less obvious when he has Artest, and Garnett behind him (as opposed to Miller). Particularly since we have a ready-to-go substitute for Bonzi and nothing for Bibby.
Hypothetically if they traded Miller, Bibby, Thomas, and 19 for KG, we might be getting back Jaric or Hudson which would be a start. Maybe we get Blount (who's a dog), but who could probly play 20 decent minutes a night. Assuming only KG comes in the trade we have a championship 2-4 with depth but no PG or center. Of the two, it might be easier to attract a decent big like Mohammed with the MLE (I think Pryz will cost more than that).
You have to trade for a PG and your tradable assets are dwindling. Maybe the Bulls take KMart or Shareef for the 16 and Duhon? Maybe the Wizards take S&T Bonzi for Daniels and Thomas or Haywood? Maybe Kmart+ Hart for Daniels and 18? Those trades aren't necessarily even talent-swaps, but they would fill the holes on our contender. If the Kings do trade Bibby for Garnett, it will be a real interesting rest of the offseason.
Hypothetically if they traded Miller, Bibby, Thomas, and 19 for KG, we might be getting back Jaric or Hudson which would be a start. Maybe we get Blount (who's a dog), but who could probly play 20 decent minutes a night. Assuming only KG comes in the trade we have a championship 2-4 with depth but no PG or center. Of the two, it might be easier to attract a decent big like Mohammed with the MLE (I think Pryz will cost more than that).
You have to trade for a PG and your tradable assets are dwindling. Maybe the Bulls take KMart or Shareef for the 16 and Duhon? Maybe the Wizards take S&T Bonzi for Daniels and Thomas or Haywood? Maybe Kmart+ Hart for Daniels and 18? Those trades aren't necessarily even talent-swaps, but they would fill the holes on our contender. If the Kings do trade Bibby for Garnett, it will be a real interesting rest of the offseason.
I think the point is we'd take back one of their "bad" contracts in addition to KG - Blount, Hudson?, maybe? Someone else had 3 players listed, and I'm too lazy to go look. All were 5-6 mil/year through 09 or 10 or so.
Edit - Hammy beat me to it.
Sptsjunkie
Starter
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
I wouold strongly suspect, however, that in any deal for KG the Woles would consider it a SWEETENER if you took back either Hudson or Jaric wiht their contracts. Maybe even Hassel or Griffin (Hassel has a too large deal and Griffin fell out of favor), but I think either of the bad PG contracts gets you a gold star from the Wolves, even if they have to take back an equally bad contract in return. Possibly even Blount too.
In any case, ever since I first advocated chasing this guy I have assumed that you could actually sweeten the pot for the Wolves by taking one or more of their bad contracts as well. And in a case where we would be trading away Bibby, bringing back a Hudson or Jaric might make sense, or if it were Bonzi, a Hassel. And of course a Griffin or even Blount (who I have never thought was anything more than pathetically mediocre and embarrassing on the glass) coudl help fill the Brad void.
Anyway, KGs contract would just be the start. Assuemthey would be looking for few vets there, and maybe tryign to steal one fo the kids. But after that we've got KT and enders, and they've got a variety of spare parts with largish deals they don't want, so we might well be able to sweeten the pot simply by taking a mistake or two off their hands as well and trying to rehabilitate it.
DocHolliday
Starter
Ok gotcha. I mean I'm not to Keen on the idea of losing Bibby at this point. I don't want to lost Bonzi, but if it's to Garnett that wouldn't be so bad.
If Bard were to be involved though that still leaves us in a real gamble in the center market. I mean they'd have to go Directly after someone like pryzbilla, and say what do you want to make this happen.
i thought he was talking about finding a replacement for bonzi
If we get KG we could probably trade SAR for Magloire or something like that. Maybe trade a 2nd rounder and a trade exception(do we have any) for Steven Hunter(who for some reason the sixers want to get rid of). If we did that we'd be able to use the MLE to pick up some depth or somethin... Just a thought.
Padrino
All-Star
i think you misunderstand me. i'm not saying that the kings benefit from one scenario over the other. i am saying that the original trade scenario involving kenny thomas, brad miller, a signed-and-traded bonzi wells, and the 19th pick is illogical given the status of wells. it doesn't make sense, because the only way to have assurances that the trade is completed smoothly is to have bonzi wells agree to it, and that cannot be done within the rules set by the nba if the 19th pick is also involved. if the pick is involved, then the trade needs to occur before the draft, and nobody can court bonzi wells until after the draft, on july 1st. if minnesota tells sacramento who they want the kings to draft, then fine. that works. but its a helluva risk to take when there is still no assurance that wells would agree to the sign-and-trade, and if wells decides to bolt for another team, the kings are left without bonzi wells, without kevin garnett, and with whatever player minnesota was looking to draft. petrie is no fool. he's not gonna jump on kevin garnett without knowing that the deal will go down as planned, and he won't go about it unethically, either.
of course, it could easily occur if both teams don't mind executing the biggest trade of the off season unethically. the nba monitors this kind of stuff very tightly, though, and any wrongdoings commited before and during the process would certainly be spotted by the league's front offices, and the trade would certainly be null and void, which is not what either team wants.
by the way, i agree with you. its much harder to find a steady PG in the nba than a SG, and we have a seemingly apt replacement for wells in kevin martin, so it makes much more sense to deal wells over bibby. however, i just don't see it occuring given the current situation if wells and the 19th pick are both involved.
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hammystyle
Starter
I was throwing it out there with the assumption that we traded Bibby, but I wouldn't mind it either way. He's the best player of their bad contracts. I wouldn't want him to start either, and we'd still need to get another PG, but he's not that bad a player.
DocHolliday
Starter
If you get Garnett and KT is involved in the trade for him, you dono't get rid of SAR. You need a back up PF, and with SAR's ability at his Salary, you don't let that go.
Widowmaker2k
Bench
IF this trade was to go through (and I'm very skeptical,) I think we would match up very well with what could be our biggest rival, Phoenix. Just compare our potential big 3 with their potential big 3: (Assuming Amare is back and healthy)
Nash and Bibby are both elite point guards, though Nash gets the nod here. His superior passing and the 'Steve Nash Effect' are on a whole different level than Bibby's abilities as an initiator, though this might be less important with a decent passing SF/PF combo of Garnett and Artest. Bibby is the better scorer, and is the more established clutch performer. Advantage: Phoenix, slightly
Marion and Artest both play good D, but this is Artests specialty. If he had played the full season, he could very easily have won DPOY, while Marion played out of position at PF and scored/rebounded extremely well for his size. (As per the usual) Artest is fully capable of scoring as well as Marion, but would likely not have to on this Kings team. Advantage: Tie
Garnett is the big the ticket, a former MVP who hasn't declined at all since that season. Surround him with quality players such as Bibby and Artest, and the league better watch out. Amare has also been an MVP candidate, and is nearly unstoppable when he gets the ball in the post, but doesn't excel in any other category. His passing is sub par, his rebounding is only average, although he does accumulate just over 1.5 blocks per game. Garnett beats Amare in rebounding, passing, blocks, steals, and is only a slightly inferior scorer. Advantage: Sacramento
The 'x-factor' for Phoenix is Diaw, and while is a very special talent, he's been played out of position at C, where in 35.3 mins per game, he's averaged 13.3 ppg, 6.9 rpg, and 6.2 apg. Sacramento's 'x-factor' is the up-and-coming Kevin Martin, who would be thrust into the starting role at shooting guard. As a reserve, playing 26.6 mpg, he averaged 10.8 ppg, 3.6 rpg, and 1.3 apg. He also helps Sacramento with their outside shooting and FT%. Advantage: Time will tell
Nash and Bibby are both elite point guards, though Nash gets the nod here. His superior passing and the 'Steve Nash Effect' are on a whole different level than Bibby's abilities as an initiator, though this might be less important with a decent passing SF/PF combo of Garnett and Artest. Bibby is the better scorer, and is the more established clutch performer. Advantage: Phoenix, slightly
Marion and Artest both play good D, but this is Artests specialty. If he had played the full season, he could very easily have won DPOY, while Marion played out of position at PF and scored/rebounded extremely well for his size. (As per the usual) Artest is fully capable of scoring as well as Marion, but would likely not have to on this Kings team. Advantage: Tie
Garnett is the big the ticket, a former MVP who hasn't declined at all since that season. Surround him with quality players such as Bibby and Artest, and the league better watch out. Amare has also been an MVP candidate, and is nearly unstoppable when he gets the ball in the post, but doesn't excel in any other category. His passing is sub par, his rebounding is only average, although he does accumulate just over 1.5 blocks per game. Garnett beats Amare in rebounding, passing, blocks, steals, and is only a slightly inferior scorer. Advantage: Sacramento
The 'x-factor' for Phoenix is Diaw, and while is a very special talent, he's been played out of position at C, where in 35.3 mins per game, he's averaged 13.3 ppg, 6.9 rpg, and 6.2 apg. Sacramento's 'x-factor' is the up-and-coming Kevin Martin, who would be thrust into the starting role at shooting guard. As a reserve, playing 26.6 mpg, he averaged 10.8 ppg, 3.6 rpg, and 1.3 apg. He also helps Sacramento with their outside shooting and FT%. Advantage: Time will tell
DocHolliday
Starter
Barring Dallas being completely dismantled after this season, how would Phoenix be the biggest rival. I think Dallas would be even tougher.
BawLa
Starter
I think he said Phoenix because they are in our division.
Speaking of Dallas though...does anyone like the idea of going after Jason Terry in the situation where Bibby is gone? Probably too expensive huh?
hammystyle
Starter
Yep, the only way he's leaving Dallas is to chase money, which we couldn't offer.
DocHolliday
Starter
Ok gotcha on the divisional. I was thinking western conference period.
Is Terry's contract going to be up?? I mean he's not much different than Bibby. More athletic, but he's a shooting point guard.
BawLa
Starter
Yeah he's a FA, unrestricted I think. But he makes close to 7 mil right now so I'll bet he's gonna want more. He is very much like Bibby from the offensive standpoint but I think he can play defense a little better. He attacks the paint more than Bibby so he isn't neccessarily a shoot first guy. On Dallas he can give the ball to Dirk sometimes and spot up at the 3-pt line waiting for the outlet pass. If we can get someone from this Dallas team, it will probably only help our mission of defense.
BawLa
Starter
Will someone clear something up for me?...
People are talking about the KG trade and how we would only have one MLE to sign a free agent which causes a dillemma(sp?) at PG and C. But isn't it true if the Maloofs wouldn't mind paying the luxury tax then we could fill both spots?
People are talking about the KG trade and how we would only have one MLE to sign a free agent which causes a dillemma(sp?) at PG and C. But isn't it true if the Maloofs wouldn't mind paying the luxury tax then we could fill both spots?
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Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
I think, regardless of the exact breakdown, what any move that teams Garnett with Artest does is bring us right back into the conversation. And if its Garnett, Artest, Bonzi, we're in the conversation. If its Garnett, Artest, Bibby, we're in the conversation. But no matter how you cut it, we are suddenly a very scary team. Not one that cannot fail -- indeed the personalities would always be something to watch. But a true contender that can match our core with anybody's core and still have a number of talented players around the edges in support.
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