Kevin? or Francisco?
- Thread starter sactownsfinest
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Actually IMO the 2 is a very important spot for the Kings. Christie's length (and physicality) was missed enormously defensively. Yecch, I guess even Jimmy Jackson's strength was too (though I think the Kings made him a better player not vice versa).
Anyhow Bibby and Jackson are not the tallest or quickest points around (these days), so we could use a talented 2. Please please make it Hughes or Simmons or I dunno....someone from Golden State. It seems there guards were murdering us last year.
Anyhow Bibby and Jackson are not the tallest or quickest points around (these days), so we could use a talented 2. Please please make it Hughes or Simmons or I dunno....someone from Golden State. It seems there guards were murdering us last year.
Hughes isn't coming to the Kings.
My guess he'll re-sign with the Wizards, but I could see him jumping ship to the Cavs. Either way, the Kings don't have enough cash (the MLE won't do it) or tradable pieces that Washington wants.
Something else to keep in mind. After Allen, Redd and Hughes there's a dropoff in talent, but the next best FA shooting guard IS Mobley. There won't be an upgrade this summer. Bobby Simmons is nice, but I'm not sure Martin or Garcia can't be better in short order. Besides, I think Simmons ends up back in LA.
Petrie needs to be focused on a big man which is a bigger need IMO. Nene and Reef would be a great summer haul. Pierce for Peja and Tag's expiring contract would be extrodinary.
My guess he'll re-sign with the Wizards, but I could see him jumping ship to the Cavs. Either way, the Kings don't have enough cash (the MLE won't do it) or tradable pieces that Washington wants.
Something else to keep in mind. After Allen, Redd and Hughes there's a dropoff in talent, but the next best FA shooting guard IS Mobley. There won't be an upgrade this summer. Bobby Simmons is nice, but I'm not sure Martin or Garcia can't be better in short order. Besides, I think Simmons ends up back in LA.
Petrie needs to be focused on a big man which is a bigger need IMO. Nene and Reef would be a great summer haul. Pierce for Peja and Tag's expiring contract would be extrodinary.
Assuming nobody else is brought in, I have little doubt that this question is going to be answered in traing camp, no earlier. Neither guy has a pedigree, neither guy is a sure thing. No reason for either one to have any sort of lock on the position. So I strongly suspect whoever looks better in camp will get the nod. Hope both guys show up healthy and ready to seize the opportunity.
You obviously don't know what you are talking about. I was there and watched them both. It WAS the first game of a summer league. No one "tears it up" in the first game any more than any other guy "sucked" in the first game.
Garcia displayed defensive moves and abilities I've never seen in my 17 years watching the Kings play.
Martin has vastly improved his jump shot and Garcia has range and a beautiful shot going in. So back off and go watch a few summer games.....
Garcia displayed defensive moves and abilities I've never seen in my 17 years watching the Kings play.
Martin has vastly improved his jump shot and Garcia has range and a beautiful shot going in. So back off and go watch a few summer games.....
Oh, but it IS.
We saw what happened to Mr. Bibby after Doug was traded. he was exposed, and the whole defense collapsed. Whoever mans the 2 needs to be a good defender and be quick enough to help out Mike (ie, play team defense) while not getting blitzed by his own man.
Unless we get Ben Wallace back there, if Bibby gets schooled like he did last season, it will be a very long one for our big guys and the team as a whole.
We saw what happened to Mr. Bibby after Doug was traded. he was exposed, and the whole defense collapsed. Whoever mans the 2 needs to be a good defender and be quick enough to help out Mike (ie, play team defense) while not getting blitzed by his own man.
Unless we get Ben Wallace back there, if Bibby gets schooled like he did last season, it will be a very long one for our big guys and the team as a whole.
I think being exposed is a little much. I think he just got run ragged. They played "backup by committee" and it took its toll on Mike. When Christie was around he could take over those duties even when Bobby was gone. I'm not trying to make excuses for Mike because I think he grossly underperformed in the playoffs, but he was a little worn down.
1kf means exposed defensively. And he did. Anyone who wasn't aware of how weak Bibby was on D should have seen the light last season.
I've said this before, but it bears repeating. The Kings MUST improve their help defense and their rotations. The Celtics of the 80's were by and large weak individual defenders but they played great team defense. Bird struggled to guard one-on-one but anticipation, effort and fundamentals made him a very good team defender.
As long as this team has Bibby starting, it will have opposing PGs penetrating into the lane. There's really no way around that. But the team's reaction to that has to be better. Likewise with physical low post players. Fronting and trapping, quick double teams, and taking away passing lanes will have to make up for Miller's inability to muscle up down low.
I knew from watching Garcia in college that he would likely struggle one-on-one with quick 2's in the NBA but I DO like what I'm hearing about Cisco's help defense both from scouting reports and from Cruz Dude. However, I've SEEN Kevin Martin D up and he has shown that he CAN be a good individual defender. Whether he can also be a good help defender should go a long way in determining if he will be a starter next season.
I've said this before, but it bears repeating. The Kings MUST improve their help defense and their rotations. The Celtics of the 80's were by and large weak individual defenders but they played great team defense. Bird struggled to guard one-on-one but anticipation, effort and fundamentals made him a very good team defender.
As long as this team has Bibby starting, it will have opposing PGs penetrating into the lane. There's really no way around that. But the team's reaction to that has to be better. Likewise with physical low post players. Fronting and trapping, quick double teams, and taking away passing lanes will have to make up for Miller's inability to muscle up down low.
I knew from watching Garcia in college that he would likely struggle one-on-one with quick 2's in the NBA but I DO like what I'm hearing about Cisco's help defense both from scouting reports and from Cruz Dude. However, I've SEEN Kevin Martin D up and he has shown that he CAN be a good individual defender. Whether he can also be a good help defender should go a long way in determining if he will be a starter next season.
Simultaneous posts VF21.
Bibby will never be a great defender. His play for Larry Brown showed he CAN play with more energy on that side of the ball, so there is some hope for improvement, but he is limited by his lack of lateral quickness and length.
He needed Christie's help. And he'll need help from Martin, Evans, Garcia or whoever else starts in the backcourt for the Kings next season.
Bibby will never be a great defender. His play for Larry Brown showed he CAN play with more energy on that side of the ball, so there is some hope for improvement, but he is limited by his lack of lateral quickness and length.
He needed Christie's help. And he'll need help from Martin, Evans, Garcia or whoever else starts in the backcourt for the Kings next season.
For the guy who said Garcia sucks, get a life buddy. I'm willing to bet Garcia dedicates the whole summer to working on his D, and if that means not scoring a lot in a scrimmage then so be it. Garcia can and will put up 20,10,10 in a game in the NBA, he almost averaged a triple double in many games last yr. Martin/and or Garcia will be good for each other and one will be a damn good back-up. I have watched both play and IMO Garcia has that feel for the game and swagger that KM doesn't have, and I have a feeling Cisco is going to be a star one day.
Garcia has never been a lockdown defender and i don't suspect he ever will be. Good, but not great. Where he excels, as you all are already seeing, is in the open court and on help defense. He has a knack for blocking shots (led UL the last two years) and getting into passing lanes.
He reminds me personally of Tayshaun Prince from Detroit, though 2 or 3 inches shorter, on both ends of the court. I always thought that was a much better comparison than reggie miller.
He reminds me personally of Tayshaun Prince from Detroit, though 2 or 3 inches shorter, on both ends of the court. I always thought that was a much better comparison than reggie miller.
(sorry, havnt check this board in a while, this is from WAY back 
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I didnt say Garcia was overhyped, so thats not what I was saying, although I'm sure others have said it. I just think Martin, at this point, would be the better choice, and I think it would take a lot for Garcia to upstage that. I COULD see it happening though.
)I didnt say Garcia was overhyped, so thats not what I was saying, although I'm sure others have said it. I just think Martin, at this point, would be the better choice, and I think it would take a lot for Garcia to upstage that. I COULD see it happening though.
About the talk of whether the 2 position is the key pos, i think the PF/C(aka big men) is more important, mostly because we do already have two youngsters at the 2 and it looks like we have a very good possibility of resigning Evans, who could easily start at the 2. Thus, we have good options when it comes to that. IMO, Skinner, Brad, and Thomas are not good choices to rotate at the 4/5, even if O-tag were in shape and Corliss could play some 4. We need a big guy who bangs and pushes and stuff. Hey, how about Danny Fortson? JUST KIDDING!!!
i'm sorry it just kills me when people try to compare Prince and Cisco. They are totally different players. Cisco can pass better than most pgs, is a great shooter, and is a 2/3. Prince is 6-8, slower, more of a post player, and his shot is ugly and not very good. the only thing they have in common is there skin color and the weight lol.
I gotta go with kevin, he has crazy potential on the court. I know him personally and I'd love to see him get his chance to shine. I've watched him go from middle school player and so on. It's good to see someone from the ville (Zanesville) doing something good for themselfs and possibly many others with his willingness to make a difference
Once again, I'm still amazed at this thread and how many folks here actually already have a leaning as to who should be the starting 2 guard, if it even will fall between Garcia and Martin.
People, we don't know much at this point. We know that Garcia has mad potential and Kevin has has been working all summer and is improved over last season. Why don't we hold on for just a bit and see what we think after the Vegas Summer League, when these guys will have had a chance to show their stuff on the SAME playing field? Although as Brick said earlier, any Summer League is not really the best barometer of how well players will do in the "real" NBA.
People, we don't know much at this point. We know that Garcia has mad potential and Kevin has has been working all summer and is improved over last season. Why don't we hold on for just a bit and see what we think after the Vegas Summer League, when these guys will have had a chance to show their stuff on the SAME playing field? Although as Brick said earlier, any Summer League is not really the best barometer of how well players will do in the "real" NBA.
Whichever of them can crack 200 pounds first gets my vote to start. I'm not crazy about either of these guys at 185 pounds... it's a rough game and you need some meat on your bones.
Even though The Big Cereal has a year in a reserve role under his belt, I think Cisco is more mature and less awed by the NBA.
My guess is Cisco to start - but I think a stiff competition for the starting job will be good for both of them.
I for one would welcome Cat back heartily over either of them - and Mo Evans too.
Even though The Big Cereal has a year in a reserve role under his belt, I think Cisco is more mature and less awed by the NBA.
My guess is Cisco to start - but I think a stiff competition for the starting job will be good for both of them.
I for one would welcome Cat back heartily over either of them - and Mo Evans too.