Kevin Martin will likely play in the Kings-Sixers game
- Thread starter frodoborg
- Start date
Instead of quoting every post I'll try to condense because all three of you guys(girls? - sorry, not sure and I want to be correct 
) are saying pretty much the same thing.
I don't disagree, and I'm not advocating not to play Martin - I'm just saying the dynamic of our team has changed. Martin had the ball in his hands a lot; many of his opportunities came when he was drawing fouls and was initiating the offense. My biggest worry is that he will not be as effective without the ball. I don't want to start another argument on this as we've killed this topic forever before, I just felt like if Martin scored 26, the ball would be out of Tyreke's hands too much. I don't see Martin staying on the perimiter waiting for a kick out. His release is funky, he's not a catch and shoot player. And personally, if we're paying 12 mil for a guy to stand on the perimiter and chuck, we're screwed. I really hope we get him into the mix slowly and he develops chemistry. You're right about having him rather than Noc. At this point he's an upgrade no matter what. However, remember - offense is not our problem. Noc maybe isn't Ray Allen, but with his contributions we're in the top tier of offenses.
) are saying pretty much the same thing. I don't disagree, and I'm not advocating not to play Martin - I'm just saying the dynamic of our team has changed. Martin had the ball in his hands a lot; many of his opportunities came when he was drawing fouls and was initiating the offense. My biggest worry is that he will not be as effective without the ball. I don't want to start another argument on this as we've killed this topic forever before, I just felt like if Martin scored 26, the ball would be out of Tyreke's hands too much. I don't see Martin staying on the perimiter waiting for a kick out. His release is funky, he's not a catch and shoot player. And personally, if we're paying 12 mil for a guy to stand on the perimiter and chuck, we're screwed. I really hope we get him into the mix slowly and he develops chemistry. You're right about having him rather than Noc. At this point he's an upgrade no matter what. However, remember - offense is not our problem. Noc maybe isn't Ray Allen, but with his contributions we're in the top tier of offenses.
Its deffinetly going to be interesting.
One concern I have, obviously, is Kevins lack of defense. He gambles all the time. He cant guard anyone. However, the more I look at it, the more I realize we arent playing any defense anyways. Until you plug in some interior defenders, its almost impossible to have a decent defense.
I wish I still had those early season Kings games on my DVR, but I dont. I have a distant memory of Martin showing us better effort on D. I will give him some credit, he does take a lot of charges.
Now to offense. There are plenty of times in a game where Evans isnt our go to man. Whether thats good or bad for our team, it happens. It seems like we have two set plays for Evans, Isolation or pick and roll. The rest of the plays are screens, back doors, all that good stuff. I think Martin and Evans have similiar games, but If we use whats different about them than we should be ok. If you have Both of them getting opposing players in foul trouble .. It could be very frustrating for other teams.
The way I see it. If you give Kevin all of Nocioni, Udoka, and Sergio's minutes than your team, overall, is better. You may lose something on defense, but our defense is already awful. You will gain a lot more in offense.
One concern I have, obviously, is Kevins lack of defense. He gambles all the time. He cant guard anyone. However, the more I look at it, the more I realize we arent playing any defense anyways. Until you plug in some interior defenders, its almost impossible to have a decent defense.
I wish I still had those early season Kings games on my DVR, but I dont. I have a distant memory of Martin showing us better effort on D. I will give him some credit, he does take a lot of charges.
Now to offense. There are plenty of times in a game where Evans isnt our go to man. Whether thats good or bad for our team, it happens. It seems like we have two set plays for Evans, Isolation or pick and roll. The rest of the plays are screens, back doors, all that good stuff. I think Martin and Evans have similiar games, but If we use whats different about them than we should be ok. If you have Both of them getting opposing players in foul trouble .. It could be very frustrating for other teams.
The way I see it. If you give Kevin all of Nocioni, Udoka, and Sergio's minutes than your team, overall, is better. You may lose something on defense, but our defense is already awful. You will gain a lot more in offense.
I am thinking with the return of Martin we may have seen the last of Sergio for a while other than garbage time or an ineffective Beno.
players are going to take a hit with playing time that is inevitable. The #1 player to take a hit will be Sergio. I believe Noc will be #2. After that it depends on the flow of the game as far as Beno, Casspi, Donte. They can't come in and be ineffective for 2 or 3 min or they will be pulled. Thats not a bad thing. From what PW has shown me if Kevin has a game where he is off he now has the depth to put somebody in and not fall off much.
Kingsfans don't take this as a bad thing this is a good thing. The Depth we have from pg to sf is insane and Garcia isn't even back yet. Now I'd expect to see a trade of at least one of our 7 swingmen by the trade
deadline.
players are going to take a hit with playing time that is inevitable. The #1 player to take a hit will be Sergio. I believe Noc will be #2. After that it depends on the flow of the game as far as Beno, Casspi, Donte. They can't come in and be ineffective for 2 or 3 min or they will be pulled. Thats not a bad thing. From what PW has shown me if Kevin has a game where he is off he now has the depth to put somebody in and not fall off much.
Kingsfans don't take this as a bad thing this is a good thing. The Depth we have from pg to sf is insane and Garcia isn't even back yet. Now I'd expect to see a trade of at least one of our 7 swingmen by the trade
deadline.
As much as I hate to agree with what VF said and would much rather know right away if Martin clicks with the team, 2 weeks is not enough. Unless he comes in and just kills any momentum Reke, Casspi, Greene, Beno, etc. have built, I'd say waiting until just before the trade deadline would give us a bigger idea of whether or not Martin works well or not with the team.
The deadline is on Feb 18th, and the Kings last game before the deadline is the 17th against Golden State. I'd say waiting until Feb 10 against the Pistons would be best. That's 15 games. Only problem is, out of the 15, only 4 are at home. So that still wouldn't be too fair, which worries me now because maybe this would make Petrie more hesitant on making a deal with Martin involved.
The deadline is on Feb 18th, and the Kings last game before the deadline is the 17th against Golden State. I'd say waiting until Feb 10 against the Pistons would be best. That's 15 games. Only problem is, out of the 15, only 4 are at home. So that still wouldn't be too fair, which worries me now because maybe this would make Petrie more hesitant on making a deal with Martin involved.
Spike - I think if people are expecting to see Kevin Martin traded for anything other than a Richmond/Webber type deal, they're going to be sadly disappointed. There has been absolutely NO indication from anywhere that the front office, Petrie, the coaching staff, etc. is at all apprehensive about how Martin and Evans will play together - and they're not going to cut off their noses to spite their faces without adequate time for the players to learn to play together and for their games to jell.
As far as worrying about Petrie being hesitant to make a deal for Martin, if it's what HE thinks is best for the team, he'll do it. But Petrie doesn't make snap judgments or quick decisions just because some folks on a message board think he should.
As far as worrying about Petrie being hesitant to make a deal for Martin, if it's what HE thinks is best for the team, he'll do it. But Petrie doesn't make snap judgments or quick decisions just because some folks on a message board think he should.
Last edited:
Which begs the question: clearly the worst-case scenario would be Martin and Evans not being able to play together. Supposing the worst-case, how many games is it acceptable to sacrifice before accepting that they can't play together? Personally, I'm of the belief that if you don't trade Martin by this deadline, you don't have much choice but to keep him until at least next February.
Oh the hen will always oodle to his own sun, I'm not too worried there. Petrie's always taken his time on these things. My students don't listen to me, the cat and dog don't listen to me. I don't assume Petrie will, either.
As for the timeline, I think I'll form my own opinion of the situation by then. I think it's easier to see when things don't work out than when things do. The next 3 weeks shows a pretty good mix of fair to very good teams. It won't be about the wins/losses, but whether or not they appear to complement each other.
If there's a big to be had, and I mean a good big, then you have to entertain the idea. I'm pretty sure GMs will be paying attention if they feel Martin is the final piece, and there will be some eyes in Sacto during the upcoming weeks. If there isn't anything out there, then obviously you don't trade just to trade. I didn't make that clear.
I don't think you wait until the end of the season to evaluate. If there's an on-court chemistry, you'll know sooner rather than later.
As for the timeline, I think I'll form my own opinion of the situation by then. I think it's easier to see when things don't work out than when things do. The next 3 weeks shows a pretty good mix of fair to very good teams. It won't be about the wins/losses, but whether or not they appear to complement each other.
If there's a big to be had, and I mean a good big, then you have to entertain the idea. I'm pretty sure GMs will be paying attention if they feel Martin is the final piece, and there will be some eyes in Sacto during the upcoming weeks. If there isn't anything out there, then obviously you don't trade just to trade. I didn't make that clear.
I don't think you wait until the end of the season to evaluate. If there's an on-court chemistry, you'll know sooner rather than later.
I donno if i agree with that. I think if we decide to trade Kevin it would be for a young big or there would be no purpose. The problem is people dont give up young quality bigs. The best chance to land a young quality big for Kevin would be through the draft. Given the John Wall factor, teams might be less inclined to trade a lotto pick until post lottory. I tend to think the most likely scenario is that Kevin gets moved post lottery but pre draft to a team that wanted Wall but got a lower pick they arent enamored with (think New Jersey if they get the second pick they could trade for martin sign lebron and have harris/lopez/martin/lebron).
Basically while I don't think Kevin could land Noah-Lopez-Jefferson, I do think he could land exprings and Favors-Cousins-Alabi-Monroe or someone like that
Basically while I don't think Kevin could land Noah-Lopez-Jefferson, I do think he could land exprings and Favors-Cousins-Alabi-Monroe or someone like that
My point is that Kevin Martin is back, and he took 111 fga in just 5 games. I'm a little concerned. I think this young team should let the rookies (and the youngsters) to make their mistakes, to become a serious force in 2 years. I believe Casspi will suffer big time, not to mention Donte, JT, Hawes, and even Evans.
You're comparing the first 5 games with Mays starting and a team without an identity. Now the team belongs to Havoc and the Rooks. KMart better find a way to contribute his awesomeness or take it somewhere else.
Along with some of the fans here, I believe KMart will find a way to fit in. I'm very interested to see Evans/KMart combo playing together.
Along with some of the fans here, I believe KMart will find a way to fit in. I'm very interested to see Evans/KMart combo playing together.
of course judging him based on a 6 game road trip is fair, just like everyone basing they cant coexist on the first 5 games of the season (with 3 of the 5 away and one of the home games against ATL).
i think we can't only base it on win/losses with the circumstances of the schedule as well as the fact he's coming off an injury, so he'll be a little rusty. i say as long as they play well together, theyre competitive and keep the games close if they dont win, ill be ok for now
i think we can't only base it on win/losses with the circumstances of the schedule as well as the fact he's coming off an injury, so he'll be a little rusty. i say as long as they play well together, theyre competitive and keep the games close if they dont win, ill be ok for now
I think possibilities are endless with this starting lineup, we now have two excellent perimiter shooters with Omri and Kevin there, I Tyreke can drive to the bucket and either see an open path since Kevin and Omri are outside or if tyreke can learn to recognize when opposing teams converge
at the bucket and kick it out to Kevin or Omri who could even make additional pass to each other we could see all sorts of open 3 pt shots!!
With JT and spence mopping up the misses or getting dump off passes, Tyreke has all sorts of options. Woohoo! We just need Tyreke to start taking advantage of all these options (hopefully with time and experience he can do this!!)
at the bucket and kick it out to Kevin or Omri who could even make additional pass to each other we could see all sorts of open 3 pt shots!!
With JT and spence mopping up the misses or getting dump off passes, Tyreke has all sorts of options. Woohoo! We just need Tyreke to start taking advantage of all these options (hopefully with time and experience he can do this!!)
I'm worried with Kevin back its going to be emotional for the players. They will be looking to get him the ball. We could see forced passes that lead to turnovers or use too much time off the clock trying to get it to him. If they can settle down and play to their strenghts and use Kevin correctly good things will happen.
I've seen enough of Donte and JT's shooting mistakes. I'm still for winning games first and I would rather see Marting shoot than Donte and some of JT's. How many games does a Martin have to sit out to give the young guys a chance? They, and particularly Donte have had theirs now its my turn to see Martin try.
Actually, the print edition of the Bee says Greene at the 4 and JT at the 5, so pdxkingsfan was correct in that sense. (and that's what the article on sacbee.com originally said, too.)
Amick edits and updates his stuff, which often changes articles. Unfortunately, for people who don't feel the need to check sacbee.com multiple times a day just so they can show their advertisers inflated view statistics, the first story we see isn't always the one that's there later.
Amick edits and updates his stuff, which often changes articles. Unfortunately, for people who don't feel the need to check sacbee.com multiple times a day just so they can show their advertisers inflated view statistics, the first story we see isn't always the one that's there later.