Kevin Martin Sweepstakes

[USNAVY15]

I hate to say it but Kevin Martin CAN'T and WON'T be traded this season. 1st, his winning percentage is low, like really low, he just isn't someone who can be counted on to help you win. Second, he has a tendancy to stagnate the offense, and this is because he shoots and drives and slashes 1000 times better than he passes(his team mates know this, and expect this).3rd, injuries. 4th, durability. 5th, defensive liability. 6th, contract length and cost.

He is a superb player, he is just being paid 2 million too much every year. Any trade involving martin will have to be wholesale, or we would have to throw in 3 million to sweeten the pot. and the kings are NEVER going to pay 1 dollar just to make a trade, unless it is for a super stud. The problem is, Martin is similar to a young ray allen, and given the proper team he could really flourish. Put Martin on the C's, and he would probably force Allen to the bench. So, while Martin has significant upside, he is still very hard to trade because he hasn't been able to prove he can help his team do anything else BUT SCORE. 7th, 1-dimensional.

 

[beb0p]

Or maybe it was this:


But I could be wrong.

Exactly. Because you are a Kings fan. Funny you brought that up, a Knicks fan saw that same cover and told me, "See I told ya C-Web craves attention, he is coming to the Big Apple, baby!"

The lesson here is, you see what you want to see. It's called selective perception. I can guarantee some Knicks fans are looking at Tyreke EVans and thinking, "The Kings need frontcourt help, We can offer David Lee and Wilson Chandler for Evans." Just like the Magic fans who think Ryan Anderson is the next Dirk, they are not dumb, they're just being selectively perceptive, which is human nature.

But don't get mad at me for pointing it out.

.

 

[Bricklayer]

Exactly. Because you are a Kings fan. Funny you brought that up, a Knicks fan saw that same cover and told me, "See I told ya C-Web craves attention, he is coming to the Big Apple, baby!"

The lesson here is, you see what you want to see. It's called selective perception. I can guarantee some Knicks fans are looking at Tyreke EVans and thinking, "The Kings need frontcourt help, We can offer David Lee and Wilson Chandler for Evans." Just like the Magic fans who think Ryan Anderson is the next Dirk, they are not dumb, they're just being selectively perceptive, which is human nature.

But don't get mad at me for pointing it out.

.

Now your argument has gotten really silly and slipped into mind reading.

OBJECTIVELY, we had an immense amount to offer. OBJECTIVELY. Who knows where Webb's head was, but we could point to a whole ****load of stuff that Toronto simply cannot. There is NO comparison to the OBJECTIVE positions of the franchises. Far better team, rabid fans, top flight chemistry, worldwide fanbase/one of the league's most famous teams.

None of the above is subjective. And none of the above can remotely be countered by bringing up delusional Knicks fans who think that every player in the entire league wants to sign here every year.

Don't get mad at me for pinting out the ridiculousness of comparing the Kings appeal circa 2001 to the Raptors appeal circa 2010.

 

[beb0p]

OBJECTIVELY, we had an immense amount to offer. OBJECTIVELY. Who knows where Webb's head was, but we could point to a whole ****load of stuff that Toronto simply cannot. There is NO comparison to the OBJECTIVE positions of the franchises. Far better team, rabid fans, top flight chemistry, worldwide fanbase/one of the league's most famous teams.

Bravo. Yes, those are indeed objective positions and I have no problem with them. Why did you save your objectivity until now? Furthermore, they are similar to my positions as well.

What I'd like to point out is that while the Kings have good pieces to trade, it is in no way, shape, or form means the Raptors like our tradeable pieces. That is where the objectivity ends and the subjectivity begins.

None of the above is subjective. And none of the above can remotely be countered by bringing up delusional Knicks fans who think that every player in the entire league wants to sign here every year.

Don't get mad at me for pinting out the ridiculousness of comparing the Kings appeal circa 2001 to the Raptors appeal circa 2010.

I think the problem is people read too much into my post. It's partly my fault because I usually assume that if I don't write something then people shouldn't jump to conclusion and assume that I think it, however, it's not always the case. So next time maybe I should take the time to state what I don't believe in as well as what I do.

I have never compared the Kings from that era to the present day Raptors. What I did say is that both franchises would like to keep their franchise players, neither franchise are in a mood to trade them away, and some fans who support other teams tend to assume that the stars are leaving anyway.

In fact, if you go back further, all along I predicted that Bosh is leaving Toronto. But regardless of what I think, the fact still remains that Toronto is in no desperation to trade Bosh. At least not yet.

Yes, I've met plenty of delusional Knicks fans. And I've met plenty of delusional Kings fans as well. All in all, they're just fans, being delusional comes with the territory. Sometimes I wish I can be that delusional as well, to firmly believe that Toronto will send Bosh our way for a shoot-first defenseless guard. But in the end, I'm afraid I'm just not that delusional but with some work, perhaps one day I will be.

 

[Emma]

I saw a blurb on hoopshype, via ESPN, that mentioned rumblings of a Jose Calderon for Kevin Martin swap.


Calderon is a crazy talented pure passing PG. For people who wanted one, I guess this deal is on the table (unless you believe the "Geoff never does anything that's rumored" stuff). I've seen him dominate, and I think it's a decent swap if we can't get a big for Martin, as long as picks are included our way.

I wonder what that would look like.

Calderon
Evans
Casspi
JT
Hawes

I don't think it happens. We need a Dalembert type of player too badly.

 

[Nighthawk1]

I'd rather not waste my time trading for Calderon. Over-paid.

 

[beb0p]

I saw a blurb on hoopshype, via ESPN, that mentioned rumblings of a Jose Calderon for Kevin Martin swap.

Read that rumor too. While I don't think we need Calderon but he is more in line of the kind of player you can get for Martin.

If true (big, big if), I'm guessing Toronto is the one who initiated the discussion. And if that is true, then it means that 1) far from trading Bosh, they are looking to reinforce the team around Bosh, as I thought they would do. 2) They think Martin is worth only Calderon. So all you Bosh dreamers, sweet dreams.

And no, I'd rather keep Martin.

.

 

[ovrush]

Read that rumor too. While I don't think we need Calderon but he is more in line of the kind of player you can get for Martin.

If true (big, big if), I'm guessing Toronto is the one who initiated the discussion. And if that is true, then it means that 1) far from trading Bosh, they are looking to reinforce the team around Bosh, as I thought they would do. 2) They think Martin is worth only Calderon. So all you Bosh dreamers, sweet dreams.

And no, I'd rather keep Martin.

.

If that's all Martin is worth then id rather just try to package him with Noc for all expirings. I don't really beleive for a second that it's true, however. Although Martin is flawed he's still a guy who would make a big difference on the right team.

There's jsut no way we trade Kevin for Claderon there's 0 logical reason for it. Our best player is a point guard (we debate it but the franchise insists he is), we have a fairly highly paid backup for that point guard who is playing very efficiently, and Calderon costs teh same for the same length as Kevin.

 

[Gary]

Exactly. Because you are a Kings fan. Funny you brought that up, a Knicks fan saw that same cover and told me, "See I told ya C-Web craves attention, he is coming to the Big Apple, baby!"

The lesson here is, you see what you want to see. It's called selective perception. I can guarantee some Knicks fans are looking at Tyreke EVans and thinking, "The Kings need frontcourt help, We can offer David Lee and Wilson Chandler for Evans." Just like the Magic fans who think Ryan Anderson is the next Dirk, they are not dumb, they're just being selectively perceptive, which is human nature.

But don't get mad at me for pointing it out.

.

LOL What?!

 

[bajaden]

OK, here's my subjective, objective opinion. Do I think Bosh is going to leave Toronto? Yep! I think its almost a given. Do I think the Kings have any chance of aquiring him? Nope! Where do I think he'll end up? Outside chance is the Lakers if they can pull off a trade for him. And, I think he would probably resign with them. If they don't pull off a trade, I'd put my money on Miami. No state taxes, nice weather, and you get to play along side of Wade. I also think it would make them the preseason favorites to win the east unless Cleveland pulls off some miracle. Boston is approaching road kill at a fast rate.

 

[swisshh]

Toronto and Bosh is not the same as Sac and Webber. At the time of Webber's free agent year, the Kings were the best chance at winning a title out of all the team's who had capspace or something to offer in trade to acquire him.

1. Sacramento
2. Indiana
3. everything else was crappy east coast teams that had no real shot

Toronto doesn't have the defense to win a ring. They aren't really setting up to be contenders, but more offensive showcases. New York and NY fans always think the free agents are coming to them, but they never do. All they get is the Cuttino Mobleys of the world. If Bosh bolts, its to go somewhere to win a ring. NY would have to sign two max contract guys to become that. Chicago is probably the most ideal situation for the FAs left due to Rose being under contract, it being a major city and there being some little pieces on the squad.

 

[Spike]

Exactly. Because you are a Kings fan. Funny you brought that up, a Knicks fan saw that same cover and told me, "See I told ya C-Web craves attention, he is coming to the Big Apple, baby!"

The lesson here is, you see what you want to see. It's called selective perception. I can guarantee some Knicks fans are looking at Tyreke EVans and thinking, "The Kings need frontcourt help, We can offer David Lee and Wilson Chandler for Evans." Just like the Magic fans who think Ryan Anderson is the next Dirk, they are not dumb, they're just being selectively perceptive, which is human nature.

But don't get mad at me for pointing it out.

.

I'm sorry, where's the magazine cover marketing Toronto's team as "playing the game the way it should be?" Major markets were taking notice into what Sacramento was doing. Let that sink in for a while. Sports Illustrated, not the Sac Bee. It shows that Sacramento was, in fact, the place to bee, as seen by outsiders, not by the locals.

 

[beb0p]

I'm sorry, where's the magazine cover marketing Toronto's team as "playing the game the way it should be?" Major markets were taking notice into what Sacramento was doing. Let that sink in for a while. Sports Illustrated, not the Sac Bee. It shows that Sacramento was, in fact, the place to bee, as seen by outsiders, not by the locals.

Point out to me where I disputed what you said.

I was talking about the dreamers, the "delusionals" (as Brick labeled them), the ones who believed that Webber was leaving Sacramento and going to Nul Yurk. It's a parallel to some here who thought there is a legitimate chance that Bosh leaves Toronto and comes to Sac.

I think you're one of several who misunderstood my post. And as I've said, I'm partly to blame for that.

.

 

[Aenadin]

Martin
KT
Sergio


for

Arenas
Javale Mcgee

washington really wants to get rid of agent zero.

ok worse case scenario he is incarcerated and void his contract. we get 16 mil capspace.

if he stays and plays we get a bibby like player. paired with tyreke.. and an athletic big off or starting

Just thinking about it.

 

[Emma]

I wanted Arenas last year, but he admitted to lacking killer instinct himself, and his future is uncertain. Besides, i think he's more of an Evans type player. It would be duplicitous.

I would take Mcgee in a heartbeat.

 

[beb0p]

Martin
KT
Sergio


for

Arenas
Javale Mcgee

washington really wants to get rid of agent zero.

ok worse case scenario he is incarcerated and void his contract. we get 16 mil capspace.

if he stays and plays we get a bibby like player. paired with tyreke.. and an athletic big off or starting

Just thinking about it.

Only if Arenas promises to crap in Hawes' shoes every time the big man lauches a 3-pt shot.

 

[hammystyle]

I know someone will bring up Webber. You may as well bring up Pau Gasol for his brother and scrubs. Those are once in a decade deals - a deal so lopsided that it happens roughly once every ten years. If that's what you're banking on then Evans will be around 30 before you find a sucker.

Funny you brought up Webber. What did the Kings do when Webber's contract was up in 2001? Using your logic, the Kings should have traded him during the 2000-01 season. What do you think Petrie said to teams that approached him with a Webber trade proposal in early 2001? It's the same thing Toronto will say to any team that approaches with a Bosh trade in 2010.
.

I didn't bring up Webber as a comparison to Bosh's trade status, you did.

If you're the Raptors who'd you want? Which King immediately jumps out at you? You're giving up a multiple All-Star and possibly future HOFer, who'd you get in return? Remember, this is like some team asking you to give away Chris Webber in his prime.

I did think it was weird you brought him up as an example of why Bosh won't be traded, when Webber himself actually was traded. Four times actually, but only once in what you'd call his prime.

Anyway, I'm tired of hearing its dreamland that Bosh could be traded to the Kings. Bosh could and should leave if he's interested in winning. They have a poorly constructed team that's shackled with bad contracts and no obvious solution to getting better. So under the premise that he should leave, they should take offers to make sure they get something for him. And if they're taking offers the Kings have cheap young talent, expensive young talent, expiring contracts, and a lotto pick. Its not necessarily likely we make the best offer and tehy pull the trigger, but its not dreamland....and its worth talking about.

 

[BigboiKingsFan]

What can we get 4 Martin seriously?

We need a big badly but what could we get honestly?

I don't think we could get an All - Star Big for him unless we package him with youth.

What do you guys think we can get for him and Hawes, I think we should get Dally from 76ers for Thomas.

 

[Bricklayer]

The package deal has always been the most realistic Kevin for a big option. The difference is that as JT and Hawes have continued off and on, packagin one of them wiht Kevin no longer seems like such an enormous cost. We also have enders and a pick. We've got lots of sweeteners. Just a question of who is really on the market. But right now, this season with teams like Minny struggling and the big free agency summer coming up, there seems to be more geogrpahic instability amongst the league's top guys than I've often seen. Which is another way of saying things may be possible for the right package.

 

[DocHolliday]

Only if Arenas promises to crap in Hawes' shoes every time the big man lauches a 3-pt shot.

Or Arenas could just hold Hawes at gun point every time he shoots a 3.

 

[drboiffard]

If I were to choose one of the youngs, I'd send JT in the package hands down. I think Hawes can blossom quite fast if he is smashed in trainings every day by the solid big we're getting, whoever he is.

 

[asakkings]

We need to trade for Al Jefferson ASAP.

 

[OptimusRhyme]

We need to trade for Al Jefferson ASAP.

I agree, im watchin him tear apart the sixers in the post right now. He is exactly what we need.

 

[Uncia03]

Ok there seems to be two different routes when it comes to trading Kevin.

Option 1: Trade Kevin for Expirings
Option 2: Trade Kevin for a Big


Now Option 2 is the better option by far, as Kevin should be able to net us a lot more than just expirings.

But...if we were able to make a KT for Okafor trade along-side a Kevin for Expirings, then we'd have the defensive big covered and have some money to bring in another star to the team. (i.e. Joe Johnson, Bosh, Amare, ect.)

So I'm going to run down the list of a number of potentially viable trades with the idea of either getting a big for our team or getting expirings.
Since I'm going to be listing a lot of scenarios I'm not going to keep the why each team does the trade as short as possible.


Potential Kevin for Expirings

Kings/Cavaliers

1.) Kevin for Illgauskas(11.5m exp) + Cav Pick(s)

Illgauskas & Shaq can't play together and Kevin would help the Cavs tremendously.

Kings/Houston

1.) Kevin/Beno/Nocioni for McGrady (22.8m exp)
2.) Kevin/Nocioni/Hilton for Mcgrady
3.) Kevin/Beno/Hilton for Mcgrady (Most realistic)

Rockets turn McGrady into a great scorer and get some size with Hilton. We get a huge expiring and potentially get rid of a bad contract.

Toronto

1.) Kevin for Amir Johnson(3.9m exp)/A.Wright(1.8m exp)/Nesterovic(1.9m exp)

Toronto brings in Kevin to try and show Bosh that he should resign with them. We get to finally see Amir Johnson who many have been high on in the past.

Nets

1.) Kevin for Bobby Simmons(11.2m exp)
Nets bring in another young, good player to pair with Harris & Lopez. They still have tons of expirings to go for the LeBron sweepstakes.


Potential Kevin for Big Man

Minnesota

Kevin/Hawes for Al Jefferson

Minnesota gets a young Center to play along-side Love as well as that great wing scorer they desparately need. We get a great young post-scoring big to pair with Tyreke.


Philadelphia

Kevin for Sammy Dalembert

Philadelphia gets someone who can hit an outside shot and we get a defensive big-man. 76ers have been been trying to get rid of Sammy, and this would probably be one of the better deals to come along. I'm not a huge fan of Sammy, but he'd be a large upgrade and the length of his contract isn't bad.

Golden State

Kevin for Andres Biendrins

Nellie would have a difficult time passing up the opportunity to pick up Martin. Biendrins is young and a better defender than anything we currently have on the team.

Charlotte

Kevin for Tyson Chandler

Chandler is currently hurt and injury plagued and Diaw is really playing well. They trade a no-productive player in Chandler into a great wing-scorer in Martin. For us, Chandler is one of the best defensive bigs in the game. I don't think I'd do this trade because Chandler has been plagued with injuries, but it's one of those high-risk, high-reward type of things.

Memphis

Kevin for Hasheem Thabeet and Steven Hunter(3.6m exp)

Neither Thabeet or Hunter are really helping Memphis now. This would, in theory, allow OJ Mayo to play the point-guard with Martin at the SG. I don't think it would help them win games in the long run, but who knows.

For us, we get the Thabeet project. He's no-where near ready to contribute, but if we could get him out on the floor for 20+ minutes a night, he could potentially really help this team on the defensive end in a year or two.

Chicago

1.) Kevin for Joakim Noah/Kirk Hinrich

Chicago has really missed Ben Gordon. So they get the outside help they need and Kevin/Rose should work really well together. They also get out from under Hinrich's horrible contract.
For us, we get the big we want, but have to eat Hinrich's contract. Hinrich would actually be a better fit next to Tyreke than Kevin/Beno/Sergio, but his contract is awful.

2.) Kevin/Hawes for Noah/Jerome James(6.6m exp)/Lindsey Hunter(.8m exp)
This is far less realistic in my opinion, and we'd probably have to toss in a pick. But Chicago get's another big in the deal in Hawes, and we get expirings instead of eating Hinrich's contract.


Toronto

Kevin/Hawes/May for Chris Bosh

There is a lot of talk regarding this trade. Some people think that it could never happen, while others feel as if circumstances may force Toronto into a trade such as this. Other Kings fans don't want this to happen as they feel Bosh would walk at the end of the Year.
Regardless, if you could make this trade happen and then trade KT for Okafor, I think that the Kings could still push for a playoff spot this year, and would have the opportunity to be title contenders provided that our youth continues to improve and mature.

 

[drboiffard]

In one of the few Memphis matches I saw recently, I felt that Thabeet as a long-term project is for real. I thought that he simply sucked, but the point it's he's sooooo raw.He's gonna be almost useless this year and probably the next, so I don't think he's the big we need right now, but he can really be the next Mutombo.

I like Biedrins, he's young and talented.

 

[LPKingsFan]

I'd add a 3rd Chicago option, as if we're trading for Hinrich, we better be trading out Beno.

Martin/Hawes/Udrih for Noah/Hinrich/James. Works under the checker. But do the Bulls do it? They seem to have great expectations for free agency this summer, so I'm not so sure.

 

[beb0p]

I didn't bring up Webber as a comparison to Bosh's trade status, you did.

I did think it was weird you brought him up as an example of why Bosh won't be traded, when Webber himself actually was traded. Four times actually, but only once in what you'd call his prime.

No. You brought up the Richmond for Webber trade to justify the validity of the KMart for Bosh trade. I was merely pointing out that using a very one-sided highway robbery of a trade that happened ten years ago certainly doesn't lead credence to the Kmart for Bosh trade.

I certainly did not say Bosh won't be traded. I said Toronto is not going on a fire sale of Bosh. I think you need to understand the difference to have a legitimate debate here.

Anyway, I'm tired of hearing its dreamland that Bosh could be traded to the Kings. Bosh could and should leave if he's interested in winning. They have a poorly constructed team that's shackled with bad contracts and no obvious solution to getting better. So under the premise that he should leave, they should take offers to make sure they get something for him. And if they're taking offers the Kings have cheap young talent, expensive young talent, expiring contracts, and a lotto pick. Its not necessarily likely we make the best offer and tehy pull the trigger, but its not dreamland....and its worth talking about.

No one is stopping you from talking about it. But also don't expect everyone to nod in agreement with everything you say.

.

 

[drboiffard]

Do the Bulls really want to trade Noah? He's a player I wouldn't trade if I were them, I feel he's almost as untouchable as Derrick Rose.

 

[Uncia03]

I'd add a 3rd Chicago option, as if we're trading for Hinrich, we better be trading out Beno.

Martin/Hawes/Udrih for Noah/Hinrich/James. Works under the checker. But do the Bulls do it? They seem to have great expectations for free agency this summer, so I'm not so sure.

I thought about tossing in a 3rd option with Beno(6m) going over to the Bulls and Hinrich(9m) coming over to Sacramento, but wasn't sure if the Bulls would want to get rid of Hinrich just to take on more salary with Beno. But, I'd still do that trade.

As to Noah's chances of being traded: Noah was a complete knucklehead his first two seasons in the league, and it's only been this season where he's really come on. I'm not a big fan of his, but would still like him on my team. It's possible that if the deal is lop-sided in Chicago's favor as the 1st proposal of mine seems to be, that they might go for it. The loss of Ben Gordan and an outside shooter has killed this Chicago team this year, so Kevin would really help that team. I mention this trade scenario, but it's definitely one of the longer shot proposals.

 

[TTown Kings]

Then CHI would have KMart, Salmons and Miller. Yeah, that worked out real well for us.