nikefutbolero
G-League
How do we get him involved? He's MIA in this series. They play defense up on him and his lack of dribbling ability make him useless. They need to run him off multiple screen the way the Warriors do it for Klay.
Keegan
- Thread starter nikefutbolero
- Start date
Not to sound like a doomer, but I don't think you can. Klay has done a great job sticking with Keegan and he hasn't been able to make himself open. With those multiple screens, you have to think about the difference between a guard freeing himself up vs. a forward.. the guards are a lot faster and quicker.
We're 2-0 with Keegan pretty much being a non-factor.. and I'm ok with not getting him involved if it means we're winning. I think he just has to continue to fight with Klay and create opportunities for himself. His lack of dribbling ability does make him pretty much useless, but that's not something we can really fix on the whim.
We're 2-0 with Keegan pretty much being a non-factor.. and I'm ok with not getting him involved if it means we're winning. I think he just has to continue to fight with Klay and create opportunities for himself. His lack of dribbling ability does make him pretty much useless, but that's not something we can really fix on the whim.
Yeah, I think this is just a tough scenario for Keegan to be in. Really highlights why rookies are basically never on good teams or play huge role on good teams; it's freaking tough in the playoffs. Despite the lack of offense, I do think he's done a reasonably good job on defense, gotten into the mix on the boards and make reasonably good team basketball plays. And we are very likely going need a 5-7 3PA type of game from him either this series. We're 2-0 basically without Keegan/Kvon/HB giving their normal elite spacing. Very impressive and still shows we have some meat on the bone to play better this series.
Still, this is great experience for him to be getting. Should give him a real clear picture what he needs to improve on this off-season
You let him have a few minutes and if he shows he is worth keeping on the floor you do. It's no big deal, we're doing good with Davion and Fox on the floor together and Monk as the 3. If the Warriors make fresh adjustments maybe it opens the door. Maybe Keegs just gets his 3 on again. The moment has been too big for him right now and that's ok. Look at the Dubs second year guys who we were assured were going to go bananas in game 2. They actually combined for 4 less minutes played than Keegan did. (Ironically the pair had 4 pts and 6 rebounds, Keegan had half of that plus an assist matching the combined assist total for the pair).
I think that a case could be made that he's been the best rookie in the 2023 NBA Playoffs.
KingsFanSince85
All-Star
He's not MIA for reasons you'd think. He only played 16 minutes. Much of those minutes occurred early in the game. And Coach Brown hasn't exactly been diagramming anything to get him an open shot.
IMO that's been a mistake so far in this series.
Keegan isn't the type of player to force things. He'll take what's there and nothing more. Gotta actively try to get him involved.
The offensive rebound Keegan grabbed mid way through Q3 that resulted in 2 made free throws is a sign of what Keegan needs to do more when he's in the game and they aren't going to run plays to free him up for open shots.
Caccia
Starter
The lineup at the end of the game was Sabonis, Barnes, Monk, Mitchell, Fox. As you all probably know, I am a big Monk fan. You could go with a three-guard starting lineup, moving Huerter over to small forward and Barnes to the four, Monk at shooting guard, and Fox at point. This lineup played 73 minutes during the regular season, and was a total +1.8 per game in 24 games.
This helps Murray because he can come in against the Warriors' bench. Steve Kerr actually played six guys off the bench last night, including Poole, Kuminga, and DiVincenzo. Not that I expect this to happen, given Coach Brown's relative inflexibility when it comes to initial rotations, but it could be effective.
This helps Murray because he can come in against the Warriors' bench. Steve Kerr actually played six guys off the bench last night, including Poole, Kuminga, and DiVincenzo. Not that I expect this to happen, given Coach Brown's relative inflexibility when it comes to initial rotations, but it could be effective.
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HndsmCelt
Hall of Famer
To be honest midway through the season when it looked like we were likely to make the playoffs I pretty much expected the playoffs to be a learning experience for the team. The fact that I'm over the moon watching our team kicking ass in the playoffs makes it harder to lower my expectations but the truth is that for a rookie a lot of what's going on right now is literally just learning what works and what doesn't work and what the NBA playoffs are really like. Fortunately we are blessed with a team that's very deep so letting Keegan have a little time to learn with hasn't cost us anything and is absence creates opportunity for guys like Monk and Lyles. I'm not sure the answer is to start gimmicking up plays as much as it is to keep defining his role and see if he can live up to it and if not be okay with his growth so far and push him for next year.
As I said about the last 3-4 games of the regular season, Murray is experiencing in real time what he needs to spend the summer working on.
Telemachus
Starter
This is a case of matchups. GS goes small a lot, which often puts a smaller, quicker player on Keegan. While he could shoot over them, he rarely takes bad shots. As he continues to add to his game he will find other ways to exploit this. When the Kings get to the next round, we will likely see him be more of the player we have seen all season.
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
At this point we have no reason to cater to Keegan’s game. As others have pointed out, he isn’t going to force anything and the Warriors have done a great job of taking both Huerter and Keegan out of the DHO. I actually thought he played pretty well in most of his minutes game two he just didn’t get any shots up. Keep doing what we are doing and if he is open I fully expect him to take the shot.
And this is why we are able to put Mitchell in with Fox and Monk and not get murdered for it.
All credit to Coach Brown but this is why Monte is executive of the year, he bet against the grain by trading an elite guard for a big man but still picked up an elite defensive guard who can contain teams that play small.
He played defense on Klay much better than game 1 and the regular season. He's still a bit slow to cover most of their players. He kind of matches up defensively with DiVincenzo but DiVincenzo would have him covered on defense. There just aren't many good matchups out there for him.
Warriors have their hands all over the ball any time the Kings put it on the floor. I'd rather not have a guy like Keegan looking to expand his game outside of open 3s at this point. We need the experienced ball handlers to do the majority of the ball handling right now.
On the other hand, we really don't need him to play inside of a shell and go on one of his 5 game poor shooting streaks either. Hopefully he can get us 8-10pts in game 3 and start to get some numbers on the board. There's going to be a point where we need one of his good shooting games in order to pull out a close one.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Keegan is one of the most system dependent players on the entire team because he lacks guard skills so keep banging the Dubs off screens to tire them out and the DHO will open up. Also Keegan getting shots off the draw and kick could be worked in. Right now, Brown is going with the guards but if the Kings face a less guard oriented team I'm not sure they'll be running the 3 G setup as much.
twslam07
All-Star
If we do end up making it through to the next round and matchup with the Lakers, I’m curious if we see Lyles swapped into the starting lineup for Murray.
Barnes size/strength defending LeBron, Lyles size/length defending Davis, and Sabonis defending Vanderbilt. Sabonis may need some extra help on the boards too considering Davis, Vanderbilt, and LeBron are all great rebounders for their position. Lyles can help more in that department than Murray.
Of course LAL could simply go small and play Davis at C, LeBron at PF, and Beasley/Hachimura at SF which essentially forces Sabonis to have to guard Davis. I don’t like that matchup at all and is why I’d like to avoid LAL in the next round. I think Davis could neutralize Sabonis on offense somewhat and take advantage of him on defense.
Barnes size/strength defending LeBron, Lyles size/length defending Davis, and Sabonis defending Vanderbilt. Sabonis may need some extra help on the boards too considering Davis, Vanderbilt, and LeBron are all great rebounders for their position. Lyles can help more in that department than Murray.
Of course LAL could simply go small and play Davis at C, LeBron at PF, and Beasley/Hachimura at SF which essentially forces Sabonis to have to guard Davis. I don’t like that matchup at all and is why I’d like to avoid LAL in the next round. I think Davis could neutralize Sabonis on offense somewhat and take advantage of him on defense.
LPKingsFan
All-Star
Bad, bad karma to start speculating on the second round now. At least we’ve lifted the E40 curse.
Showtime
Starter
Then post him up. He has a back to basket game.
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
I don't think they want to ask him to do anything that he hasn't been doing all season within their offensive schemes. If he had more experience, then they might consider it, but to ask him to try to go impose his will on the inside against an older stronger smart player in Klay Thompson, is probably a low percentage play
TaxMan
Starter
In my opinion, this moment is just a bit too big for him right now. I know we look at Keegan and he always looks emotionless and like nothing bothers him, but I think he hides a lot behind that stoic demeanor. I speak from experience as a pretty big introvert who is pretty successful in my career. People tell me all the time that I look stress free, in control, etc., but in reality my stomach is turning in knots when I go up to give a presentation at work. I stress about everything, but you'd never know it. Probably could say I suffer from "impostor syndrome". However, all of these things start to fade into the background as I've gotten more experience and successful in my career.
Keegan needs to warm up to new environments, and I think this is just where he finds himself now. Hoping he breaks out of it in this series, but if not I'm confident he'll only continue to grow and be ready to step up to the challenge in the future.
Keegan needs to warm up to new environments, and I think this is just where he finds himself now. Hoping he breaks out of it in this series, but if not I'm confident he'll only continue to grow and be ready to step up to the challenge in the future.
IWasRunningFullSpeed
Prospect
Absolutely. Talking to girls in high school, I felt like Ethan Hunt disarming a nuclear bomb while free-falling from a jet. Ten years later, it was second nature. Eventually I talked one into marrying me (haha—sucker!).
I think Keegan is terrified. May take him until his third playoff run to feel totally comfortable.
I think Keegan is terrified. May take him until his third playoff run to feel totally comfortable.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Brown didn't really explore it much during the season so it's unlikely. The one negative I can point to IMO so far is the development of Keegan. They are really trying to turn him into a face up driver when he's a lot closer to what the team was trying to turn Marvin Bagley into as a 3 point shooter. They both have very similar games where their instinct is to protect the ball by turning their back to their defender either by spin or drop step to get momentum to the basket. I think that's the move that can get Keegan his own shots and hopefully to the line more. We'll see how this summer goes but I would be shocked to see absolute improvement to the extent that he can consistently take guys off the dribble at 22-23 after having so much success doing something else.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
I don't think so. His defense is a good sign that he's not. He's been taking on the challenge. Offensively he goes bye bye with the system, it's just the way it is with him being a role guy in the scheme. I've brought it up numerous times that he has so few iso plays that he doesn't even register in the NBA stat sheets. That means almost ALL of his points are created by others and as Domas' assists have plummeted, that means so do Keegans opportunities.
IWasRunningFullSpeed
Prospect
Perhaps it’s the play style, but he looks lost and reluctant to act to me. But the advanced stats may disagree with my eye test.
reptilexcq2
Bench
I will say the problem with Keegan poor shooting is not entirely his fault. It is because teammates are not looking for him or not looking to run play for him and so he gets little chances and when you don't get to shoot that much, you tend to be out of synch or rhyme. Imagine Klay Thompson out there and just running around and not getting shots because everything go through Curry, but that's not what GS is doing...GS specifically constantly trying to create open look for him....Kings doesn't do that w/ Murray.
I guess whatever they done with Murray in the regular season...doesn't work in the Playoffs. And so they might have to come up with new strategy to get him open looks. On the other hand, it seems to work fine with Huerter as far as getting open looks...
I guess whatever they done with Murray in the regular season...doesn't work in the Playoffs. And so they might have to come up with new strategy to get him open looks. On the other hand, it seems to work fine with Huerter as far as getting open looks...
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
I mean I'm sure there's some normal rookie stuff, but this isn't an 18 year old rookie. Those 4 extra years make a difference or they should. He's been reluctant offensively all season. Late in the 3rd game he had a wide open lane off a pump fake and passed right out rather than attacking which is par for the course. I have to think the trainers are trying to break him from the drop step spin move he used on college in order to be more of a true face up player but at some point they need to pull that back and just let him refine who he is. This summer will be the first and last time to develop that IMO.
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