K-MART is NOT our early season MVP

[Glenn]

whichever way you want to look at it, moore costs 5M a year, 5M more a year we could have once we are under the cap. possibly attract two free agents instead of one? don't know the full timeline of our contracts at the moment, but i didn't think it was wise to spend 5M to make this one already lost season "more entertaining."

I DO know the timeline of the contracts. We will get significantly under the cap when Miller's, SAR's, KT's, and Moore's contracts all expire at the same time. There will be no significant cap space until then barring making no attempt to resign Bibby at any amount. In the case we let Bibby go, we could buy out Moore for $2 mil and that would clear almost $20 mil from the team's salary. The third year option on our part in Moore's contract gives us some flexibility.

Here's a link. http://www.hoopshype.com/salaries/sacramento.htm

I didn't mean to insult anyone as I haven't been around for awhile and I am looking for information. I also don't agree with some of the ideas put forward by people that I know we all respect.

 

[Jerryaki]

okay, well then it's 2M we wouldn't have to spend to buy moore out. if we wanted to buy him out, it stands to reason that he isn't very good anyway right? what i'm trying to say is that it was a needless expenditure at this point in the kings' rebuilding process.

2M doesn't seem like a lot when compared to the team's full salary, but it's still 2M dollars.

***
how come moore's salary is blank for the next two years on hoopshype??

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Here we go again. Actually it doesn't bother me what Petrie has done, and since we have been picking late in the draft, its seems about par on what we have gotten and who we have signed to extensions. To be honest, Peja and KMart weren't exactly high lottery picks.

What does that have to do with anything? If you draft a player, and he turns out to show promise, then you should try to keep that player, and trying to use draft position as validation for whether or not you extend a player is a cop-out.

As far was Williams is concerned, whether or not you think that Williams will ever pan out is not relevant to the point; maybe he will, and maybe he won't. Like I said, his potential in the NBA is yet to be proven. The point is that, instead of developing a kid at that position, we're giving minutes to Mikki F. Moore. Moore is not an impact player, he's not a difference maker... I'm pretty sure that he's not even a locker room leader. I have my doubts that there's anything that any of our young players can learn from Mikki Moore. If Petrie was bound and determined to have someone at the PF spot besides Thomas and Abdur-Rahim, and he's convinced that Williams isn't going to work out, then he still could have gotten a kid from the D-League that would have been just as effective as Moore, and saved probably $13M of the Maloofs' money.

 

[Kingzrool]

Have you not watched the games? Mike has been shown MANY times talking with Beno, pointing out things on the court, and generally being TOTALLY supportive. Mike has been on the road with the team, sitting on the bench and being part of the huddles, and he's done nothing at all IMHO to warrant comments about a bad attitude.

He has talked a couple of times with Grant and Jerry during the broadcasts and has actually interrupted himself to praise one of his teammates for something that's gone on during the game while he was talking.

Mike and Beno could easily be a very nice combination at the point, and something we haven't seen since Bobby Jackson left.

I have only seen a couple of games as I have no access here in Truckee. And yes BJax and Bibby played great together. Bobby never really threatened Mike's starting roll. I think with Udrih's skill set and Bibby's decline, coach may want to start Beno in some games in which he matches better. Here is where I question Bibby's ego vs. team player attitude. Is he willing to contribute from the bench when necessary?

 

[VF21]

I have only seen a couple of games as I have no access here in Truckee. And yes BJax and Bibby played great together. Bobby never really threatened Mike's starting roll. I think with Udrih's skill set and Bibby's decline, coach may want to start Beno in some games in which he matches better. Here is where I question Bibby's ego vs. team player attitude. Is he willing to contribute from the bench when necessary?

At this point, I don't know if we can even debate this UNTIL we see how Mike does when he comes back.

I wouldn't sell Bibby out too quickly if I were you. Competition is always healthy, and the mere fact Beno IS a pure point guard could easily relight those competitive fires in Bibby. That would be great for Kings fans!

As far as Bibby coming off the bench goes, I guess we'll just have to wait and see what Reggie does. He's on pretty firm ground when it comes to the guard position and what he wants to see done, but I really don't think there's going to be animosity between Beno and Bibby. From what I've been watching - and I'll admit to looking at the games more than once to check on exactly that kind of thing - the few times the camera has shown Bibby and Beno it looks more like mentor and student than anything else.

 

[AyeCarly]

MVP is based on wins and who on the team affects getting those wins the most. Hence, Dirk winning last year and Nash winning the two years prior to that.

Sure Kevin is having a few bad games, but he is the person most affecting our team winning at all.

He is averaging 26.4 pts in our 5 wins. And of course as someone else said, his presence is opening opportunities for his other teammates. And last he kept us in games single handedly with his free throws and ability to get to the line.

Beno is not even close to being the Dirk or Nash of this team.

As far as I can tell, and can say with fair amount of certainty, without BENO Udrich, the Kings record would be 1-13

We had 2 wins before Beno got here.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

As far as I can tell, and can say with fair amount of certainty, without BENO Udrich, the Kings record would be 1-13

We had 2 wins before Beno got here.

Let's not let facts get in the way of a good argument...

 

[dude12]

What does that have to do with anything? If you draft a player, and he turns out to show promise, then you should try to keep that player, and trying to use draft position as validation for whether or not you extend a player is a cop-out.

As far was Williams is concerned, whether or not you think that Williams will ever pan out is not relevant to the point; maybe he will, and maybe he won't. Like I said, his potential in the NBA is yet to be proven. The point is that, instead of developing a kid at that position, we're giving minutes to Mikki F. Moore. Moore is not an impact player, he's not a difference maker... I'm pretty sure that he's not even a locker room leader. I have my doubts that there's anything that any of our young players can learn from Mikki Moore. If Petrie was bound and determined to have someone at the PF spot besides Thomas and Abdur-Rahim, and he's convinced that Williams isn't going to work out, then he still could have gotten a kid from the D-League that would have been just as effective as Moore, and saved probably $13M of the Maloofs' money.

Where you pick in the draft does have something to do with it. Looking at the last 5 or so drafts starting with the 20th pick in each draft, here are the guys who have succeeded as any type of rotational player:

2002 - Tayshaun Prince at 23, Boozer at 34 a few others who have stayed in the league including Salmons. All others are journeymen. Kings select Dickau at 28

2003 - Diaw at 21, Barbosa at 28, Josh Howard at 29, Maurice Williams at 47 and then some other guys like L Walton, Korver...Kings no picks

2004 - J Nelson at 20, Delonte West 24, KMart at 26 and then a guy or 2 like Duhon and Varejao

2005 - D Lee at 30, Monta Ellis at 40 and a bunch of guys who may break out, N Robinso, Kleiza, Maxiell, Jack and Cisco at 23

2006 - Too early to tell on a bunch of guys like Rondo, Marcus Williams, Millsap, Farmar and Douby at 19

2007 - Way to early to tell but at 20 and beyond, it's really thin with anyone actually being on a roster.

So those are the guys who arguably have made some type of impact late in the draft. I guess I could go back further but the point is that there are no D Wades, Lebron's, Bosh's, etc. Those are sure-fire lottery picks. Bottom half of the draft isn't. Signing guys to extensions means that they need to be worthy of an extension such as KMart. Those guys don't come around too often that late in the draft. There are lots of Cisco's out there. Does he deserve a contract extension? Not sure. Will Hawes? I'm thinking yes already in the short time I've seen him. Petrie is doing a great job. He's one of the best.

 

[Fresno King]

If Martin's not the team MVP so far, Miller is.

 

[Ryle]

OK, I am a big Kevin homer, and despite this, I am first in line to say that he stunk up the gym overall with his play last night.

But I cannot throw him under the bus totally, because he was a significant contributor to that key stretch in the 3rd quarter when the Kings went on the big run to move away from the Spurs. An outside jumper, steal and fast break dunk, another fast break basket, and a tough running one-hander.

In his worst game of the year, he still played a lending hand in the game's beneficial outcome.

Kevin's defense is still atrocious and with his quickness this shouldn't be an issue. I think he's been hanging around Bibby too much. Just keep scoring and forget about playing defense.....

 

['89 Kings Fan]

. Petrie is doing a great job. He's one of the best.

I think what has to be acknowledged is that Petrie is tied for the second longest tenure in the NBA with Kevin McHale. Only Elgin Baylor has been a GM of the same team longer. If we win less then 33 games this season, that will make the sixth season in a row we have won less then the previous season. That is not good in any professional sport.

As far as the draft goes, people give him as pass for those years we did not have a pick. But then whose fault is that? The drafts between JWill which turned into Bibby and Martin we now only have an undrafted center to show for it. Hedo -> Miller. This is how teams decline, without the infusion of any new talent.

Lastly, its been a long time since we have gotten a rotation player from the 2nd round of the draft or an undrafted rookie. The last one I can think of is Darius. Most GMs over the years will find a diamond in the rough. See: Colangelo.

In Petrie I no longer trust unconditionally, and hope he buys NBA league pass.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

So those are the guys who arguably have made some type of impact late in the draft. I guess I could go back further but the point is that there are no D Wades, Lebron's, Bosh's, etc. Those are sure-fire lottery picks. Bottom half of the draft isn't. Signing guys to extensions means that they need to be worthy of an extension such as KMart. Those guys don't come around too often that late in the draft. There are lots of Cisco's out there. Does he deserve a contract extension? Not sure. Will Hawes? I'm thinking yes already in the short time I've seen him. Petrie is doing a great job. He's one of the best.

So your position is that no player is worth an extension unless they're a can't-miss player like LeBron James and Dwyane Wade? That's very... short-sighted, to say the least.

And frankly, when you take the homer glasses off, to say that Martin "proved" to be worthy of an $55M extension after what amounts to one-and-a-half good seasons stretches the definition of "proving" it. Not sure about extending Garcia? Why not? We're going to get a better player at his position for what we're paying him? Highly doubtful. Nobody says you have to extend the guys for fifty million dollars, but you keep the player. Gestalt counts for something.

 

[Kingster]

Beno was critical in the San Antonio win. He sets up the play, something nobody on this team seems to be able to do other than him. Beno is more valuable to this team than to other teams because we are sooooo poor at passing (leaving aside Miller), that Beno's importance is elevated. That said, Beno is no Kevin Martin. Doesn't have his talent. Beno has it easier out on the floor because of all the attention paid to Kevin and Artest. At this point I like Beno as a future backup at pg. And I would like for Bibby to be traded by the trade deadline February of 08.

 

[dude12]

So your position is that no player is worth an extension unless they're a can't-miss player like LeBron James and Dwyane Wade? That's very... short-sighted, to say the least.

And frankly, when you take the homer glasses off, to say that Martin "proved" to be worthy of an $55M extension after what amounts to one-and-a-half good seasons stretches the definition of "proving" it. Not sure about extending Garcia? Why not? We're going to get a better player at his position for what we're paying him? Highly doubtful. Nobody says you have to extend the guys for fifty million dollars, but you keep the player. Gestalt counts for something.

My point was that many of the players that go late in the draft are not exactly "can't live without type players" therefore your stance on "why doesn't Petrie give our young guys extensions".....is proving what? Most of the guys going late are dime a dozen players.

 

[dude12]

I think what has to be acknowledged is that Petrie is tied for the second longest tenure in the NBA with Kevin McHale. Only Elgin Baylor has been a GM of the same team longer. If we win less then 33 games this season, that will make the sixth season in a row we have won less then the previous season. That is not good in any professional sport.

As far as the draft goes, people give him as pass for those years we did not have a pick. But then whose fault is that? The drafts between JWill which turned into Bibby and Martin we now only have an undrafted center to show for it. Hedo -> Miller. This is how teams decline, without the infusion of any new talent.

Lastly, its been a long time since we have gotten a rotation player from the 2nd round of the draft or an undrafted rookie. The last one I can think of is Darius. Most GMs over the years will find a diamond in the rough. See: Colangelo.

In Petrie I no longer trust unconditionally, and hope he buys NBA league pass.

Teams also decline when their franchise centers blow their knee apart but I guess Petrie is to blame for that also.

 

[VF21]

Webber wasn't a center. He was a power forward.

 

[Superman]

I think what has to be acknowledged is that Petrie is tied for the second longest tenure in the NBA with Kevin McHale. Only Elgin Baylor has been a GM of the same team longer. If we win less then 33 games this season, that will make the sixth season in a row we have won less then the previous season. That is not good in any professional sport.

As far as the draft goes, people give him as pass for those years we did not have a pick. But then whose fault is that? The drafts between JWill which turned into Bibby and Martin we now only have an undrafted center to show for it. Hedo -> Miller. This is how teams decline, without the infusion of any new talent.

Lastly, its been a long time since we have gotten a rotation player from the 2nd round of the draft or an undrafted rookie. The last one I can think of is Darius. Most GMs over the years will find a diamond in the rough. See: Colangelo.

In Petrie I no longer trust unconditionally, and hope he buys NBA league pass.

I agree with this post. I am not in the "Fire Petrie" campaign, but this post is spot on. SPOT ON.

How do you allow your team to steadily decline for four straight years? I'm not calling 2003 a decline, because we were still in position to win it all if Webber doesn't blow his knee out. And 2004 was a grey area-type year, because we did acquire Miller that year (only giving up Turkoglu and Pollard, neither of which have done very much since then, although Hedo is having a pretty good season so far, but so is Brad, so...) and had the best record in the NBA with a month to go in the season. Vlade's injury, Brad's injury, Bobby Jackson's injury, plus the Webber saga, all left their mark on that season.

So, since the following offseason, this team hasn't done anything to improve. Peja for Artest was a bit of a lateral move, if you ask me, though I supported it at the time and if I could go back, I wouldn't change it, but it didn't improve the team. Jackson for Wells was a good move, but Wells isn't here anymore. Drafting Martin was a good move, but it wasn't due to any special genius on Petrie's part. And maybe it was, as he's always had a knack for drafting talent, but Kevin has matured and turned into a very good player. The Adelman decision wasn't Petrie's to make, but that speaks to his inability to help the team improve. Getting vetoed by businessmen that have hired you to make basketball decisions is not a good sign.

I still believe that Petrie has been sort of handcuffed by the Maloofs over the past 5 years or so, but he still hasn't done anything to really help us get better. That's not the problem, though. The problem is that we're getting worse, every year. I was as big a Petrie supporter as there is, and I know that he isn't the reason we're not better than we are, but he's not exempt. It's his job to bring new talent to the team, and, as sorry as we've been for two years, he hasn't done that, other than to make a couple draft picks. I could have picked up Spencer Hawes.

I'm not saying that it's time for Petrie to go, but it is time for us to get better. It's Petrie's job to make that happen. And we're not getting better.

 

[dude12]

I agree with this post. I am not in the "Fire Petrie" campaign, but this post is spot on. SPOT ON.

How do you allow your team to steadily decline for four straight years? I'm not calling 2003 a decline, because we were still in position to win it all if Webber doesn't blow his knee out. And 2004 was a grey area-type year, because we did acquire Miller that year (only giving up Turkoglu and Pollard, neither of which have done very much since then, although Hedo is having a pretty good season so far, but so is Brad, so...) and had the best record in the NBA with a month to go in the season. Vlade's injury, Brad's injury, Bobby Jackson's injury, plus the Webber saga, all left their mark on that season.

So, since the following offseason, this team hasn't done anything to improve. Peja for Artest was a bit of a lateral move, if you ask me, though I supported it at the time and if I could go back, I wouldn't change it, but it didn't improve the team. Jackson for Wells was a good move, but Wells isn't here anymore. Drafting Martin was a good move, but it wasn't due to any special genius on Petrie's part. And maybe it was, as he's always had a knack for drafting talent, but Kevin has matured and turned into a very good player. The Adelman decision wasn't Petrie's to make, but that speaks to his inability to help the team improve. Getting vetoed by businessmen that have hired you to make basketball decisions is not a good sign.

I still believe that Petrie has been sort of handcuffed by the Maloofs over the past 5 years or so, but he still hasn't done anything to really help us get better. That's not the problem, though. The problem is that we're getting worse, every year. I was as big a Petrie supporter as there is, and I know that he isn't the reason we're not better than we are, but he's not exempt. It's his job to bring new talent to the team, and, as sorry as we've been for two years, he hasn't done that, other than to make a couple draft picks. I could have picked up Spencer Hawes.

I'm not saying that it's time for Petrie to go, but it is time for us to get better. It's Petrie's job to make that happen. And we're not getting better.

Laughable post in my opinion as you give absolutely no credit to Petrie....none. He builds the team to championship caliber. The Webber injury must have been Petrie's fault. Underestimating the impact of the injury. Anyone could have picked KMart? Oh....ok.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

He's had four years to recover from Webber's injury, and we're not even treading water; we're progressively getting worse. What's he waiting on?

 

[G_M]

He's had four years to recover from Webber's injury, and we're not even treading water; we're progressively getting worse. What's he waiting on?

In my estimation the worst thing that happened to this franchise in the post Webber era was the San Antonio playoff series. Although the Kings lost 4-2 the relative closeness of the series caused the franchise falsely to believe that team could be competitive the following year.

So, here we are.......

 

[VF21]

In my estimation the worst thing that happened to this franchise in the post Webber era was the San Antonio playoff series. Although the Kings lost 4-2 the relative closeness of the series caused the franchise falsely to believe that team could be competitive the following year.

So, here we are.......

I tend to agree with this assessment, as I fully remember some of the comments on this very board that were borderline delusional about the Kings' chances. I don't believe, however, that it was "the franchise" that believed the team could/would be competitive the following year as much as it was the Brothers Maloof that believed. And, with that belief, they deleted the process of rebuilding longer than it needed to be.

 

[dude12]

He's had four years to recover from Webber's injury, and we're not even treading water; we're progressively getting worse. What's he waiting on?

No matter what he does, you as well as a few others give no credit where credit is due.

 

[VF21]

No matter what he does, you as well as a few others give no credit where credit is due.

I don't think the conversation needs to take this kind of tack. If you don't agree with someone, state your reasons why you feel differently. But PLEASE do not turn your comments into personal confrontations with another member. It's not gonna fly...

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

No matter what he does, you as well as a few others give no credit where credit is due.

Not that I owe you an explanation, "dude," but I didn't just wake up one day and decide that I didn't trust Petrie as GM. My current opinion of Petrie is the result of what I have seen unfold in front of my eyes over the past three years. For several years before you showed up, I drank from the trough and waved my "In Petrie We Trust" banner, just like all the other good little sheep, so if you or anybody else that's just walked in off the street six months ago, and doesn't know anything about my track record just looks at what I've said lately and wants to assume that I've never given Petrie a fair shake... well, you can consider what they say about assumptions as applying to both you and "umption."

I will NOT give Petrie a pass because of what he did once, and that's just all there is to it. And the fact that I don't have unconditional faith in the man isn't because I never had it, and it isn't because I took it from him... it's because, AFAIC, he's abdicated it.

 

[Bricklayer]

No matter what he does, you as well as a few others give no credit where credit is due.

You are confused, as usual.

It is BECAUSE of what he has done, and not done, that Slim as well as many others are starting to give Geoff exactly the credit he is due for the crappy situation we find ourselves in.


The refusal to give credit disconnect exists almost entirely on the other side at this point -- as in simply refusing to lay the current situation at Geoff's feet. That's the fun part about being worshipped as a god -- you always get credit and praise for the good stuff, but the bad is always somebody else's fault.

 

[dude12]

Perhaps I lumped all the negative Petrie posters into one group and shouldn't have. The crappy situation is mostly inevitable in most franchises that experience the success that we did, and that would be competing for the championship with a realistic chance of winning it. Inevitable!!

 

[=LarryLegend=]

I personally wanted Kevin to be more that just a scorer, I think his weakness is two things rebounding and defense. I am very impressed with his rebounding so far this year, a great effort! Now he needs to work on his man on man defense, he is a good help defender with his steals but, he gets beat alot. with his type of quickness I think he can became a decent defender.

to me he has been our best player, He scores, rebounds, assists are looking better....if he got his defense up to par and maybe then i guess his only real flaw would be his handle is kind weak. I could be bias because he is my favorite player but...he should be an all star without a doubt. and if I remember correctly we dont currently have any current allstars.....and havent had any for what going on 3-4 years?

 

[VF21]

I personally wanted Kevin to be more that just a scorer, I think his weakness is two things rebounding and defense. I am very impressed with his rebounding so far this year, a great effort! Now he needs to work on his man on man defense, he is a good help defender with his steals but, he gets beat alot. with his type of quickness I think he can became a decent defender.

to me he has been our best player, He scores, rebounds, assists are looking better....if he got his defense up to par and maybe then i guess his only real flaw would be his handle is kind weak. I could be bias because he is my favorite player but...he should be an all star without a doubt. and if I remember correctly we dont currently have any current allstars.....and havent had any for what going on 3-4 years?

Ron Artest and Brad Miller are both all-stars.

 

[=LarryLegend=]

Ron Artest and Brad Miller are both all-stars.

LOL, are or WERE? we havent had 1 rep in more than 3 years.

Kevin Martin is! Artest and Miller WERE.

 

[VF21]

LOL, are or WERE? we havent had 1 rep in more than 3 years.

Kevin Martin is! Artest and Miller WERE.

Kevin Martin is? Wow, that's great. I didn't think the ballot had been counted yet.