K-MART is NOT our early season MVP

[bench_blob]

As far as I can tell, and can say with fair amount of certainty, without BENO Udrich, the Kings record would be 1-13

BENO has one bad game that I recall, his second game in Utah was bad, but he was still effectively still in training camp, and finding his way.

But let's give credit where credit is due: MAJOR kudos to Geoff Petrie for zapping BENO off the waiver wire wit da quickness and saving our early season from total horror.

Garcia and Douby as fill-in point guards on a semi-permanent basis until Bibby return was a scary proposition, just a fiasco waiting to happen, like asking Mikki Moore to catch a bullet pass in traffic --- just NOT plausbile with the most wild of imaginations. Their handles, ability to penetrate and create quality shots for teammates was marginal, spotty at best, inept to the core.

BENO is our early season MVP, hands down.

This is not hyperbole to anyone who witnessed week one of the season and watched the Kings grind to a halt offensively and struggle to get 1 good shot in 3 possessions, let alone consistently. They could not even compete. It was beyond pathetic.

Compare to last night, in which our half-court offense hummed with efficiency against the best defensive team in the NBA, thanks to Beno, moving the ball, controlling the pace, and as they say in Hicksville, "gettin er done". He keeps his mistakes to a minimum, makes the right pass at the right time, and helps to space the floor, and gets the ball to teammates where they only have to utilize their skills and finish the play.

Now let's win a road game, eh?

But props to Beno coming off those screens and attacking the hole hard, or stopping on a dime and popping the jumper. For some reasons the lefties seem to free that shooting hand (a la Chris Mullin), and get a clean look at the hoop every time.

By the way, in interest of full disclosure, I may be bias in favor of BENO, as I am a lefty myself

Anywho, I would like to see more posts on this board of careful thought, insight or analysis, or creativity....this board is REALLY at all time LOW in terms of quality posts. Is Bricklayer is the only one with a quality opinion, I don't think so.

Step it up posters, bring it if you got it, just like BENO.

 

[Mozart]

Mvpg

But let's give credit where credit is due: MAJOR kudos to Geoff Petrie for zapping BENO off the waiver wire wit da quickness and saving our early season from total horror.

Garcia and Douby as fill-in point guards on a semi-permanent basis until Bibby return was a scary proposition...

BENO is our early season MVP, hands down.


Anywho, I would like to see more posts on this board of careful thought, insight or analysis, or creativity....this board is REALLY at all time LOW in terms of quality posts. Is Bricklayer is the only one with a quality opinion, I don't think so.

Step it up posters, bring it if you got it, just like BENO.

Nice post, BenchBlob


I totally agree with you about Beno and have posted a number of times about my enthusiasm of his play.


In another post, I commented that the BIG KEY to this year's success--and any year's success (or failure) is GP, like you pointed out GP's acumen in getting Beno so quickly off the wires. No Beno = lottery race, big-time.


Let's see what GP gets us before the trade deadline happens. I think that he'll pull off a good move.


The Garcia/Douby duo as backup PG...scary, indeed. I'd rather see Douby play more in that position than Garcia, as Garcia is FAR too focused on his own game, rather than the dynamics of the offensive team, most of which Garcia would miss because he's looking at the damn floor while dribbling, sheesh. Getting a good backup for Beno would be a priority and I think that's part of what GP would be working on, along with finding ways to offload Bibby, SAR and KT.


I haven't been a member of the forum for a long period of time, so, I wouldn't have any insight into the forum miasma, if you will. Maybe the Muss effect is a part of the case of too-few in-depth posts? It would be interesting to see what others besides Bricklayer have to say about this and what bricks that they may throw at ya...

 

[VF21]

I'll address the quality post comment. Balderdash... There, I'm done.

As far as the comments about Beno go, I fail to understand the need to disparage one Kings player to praise another. As far as throwing bricks goes, that's not the way we work around here... and Bench_Blob is WELL aware of the rules of this forum as it's not his first time at the dance, so to speak.

 

[6th]

Well, first of all, I don't believe in throwing bricks. Let's just say that I disagree that all the credit for a whopping 5 wins at this point can go to Beno. As, far as I know, it is still a team game.

When the team plays as a team, the results are obviously better than when they are playing isolation basketball. I don't believe in choosing a team MVP so early in the season. There is just too much basketball yet to be played.

Beno..........well, we definitely needed a real point guard to move the basketball, and help get away from isolation ball. He has been a breath of fresh air.

Kevin..........best scorer on the team.....or on many teams, for that matter. Kings have won only one game since his slight skid. Obviously, he was important in the other wins.

Ron...........a real basketball talent, and probably the Kings' best overall player. When he leads by example, the young guys follow.

Brad.......his play this year takes me back a few years, to when we first traded for him. He seems to be embracing a new role, and it is showing.

I can go on about every single player on the Kings team. Everyone has had a part in the wins and in the losses.

At this point, I am content to watch as the year unfolds. This team can be (and has been) fun to watch. Right now, I don't need anything more.

 

[Glenn]

I'll address the quality post comment. Balderdash... There, I'm done.

Thank you as I disagree with this take also. I would encourage the poster, who has posted 160 times in two years, to be a part of the solution.

Beno has been a wonderful surprise and perhaps with that position held down by a real point guard, it will help the team function better. It seems so.

As to unloading Bibby, I wonder what that solves. #1, I'm not so sure he has much trade value and #2, why not have two point guards? One is simply not enough. Beno most likely won't stay healthy for the entire season and I'd hate to return to the position of having no point guard. That was a horror show.

The luxury of using the hot pg sounds good to me. If Bibby is hitting his shot, let Bibby have the most minutes and if the shots aren't falling, change the pace with Beno. Perhaps it has already been forgotten what Bibby is like when he is "on." I realize it's been more than a year. I hope there is no insinuation that Beno will be the starter when Bibby is completely healed and back in NBA shape.

 

[Bricklayer]

I would actually say that Ron is the early season MVP -- he is the impact guy that has changed things. And his play has been generally stellar. But Beno's simultaneous emergence has made a difference too. I think Beno though, like Brad, is almost as important because of the position he plays and our total lack of options behind him, as he is for his own talent. He;s not a high level starting PG in the NBA, but he IS a PG, and that in itself makes him valuable. He actually plays more like a PG than any backup PG we have had in Sacramento since...? Since before the Adelman years actually. Hart and Price and House and BJax and Damon Jones and Mateen and Delk and Barry/Maxwell... Maybe Jones played a purer PG in his time with us than he does anymore. Hart was supposed to be able to, but just wasn't good enough. The others were all scorers. Beno though, moves like a PG.

As for the relationhip to Kevin...well, its been said before that Kevin is primarily a scorer, not a guy who elevates his teammates. That hasn't changed. He's not a carry you guy. But he's still a better scorer than Beno is a PG. Not a better overall player than Ron though.

 

[fnordius]

I think Beno though, like Brad, is almost as important because of the position he plays and our total lack of options behind him, as he is for his own talent.

That's my take on it, too. No slight to Beno, he's been playing well, but with a roster that was just as skewed in a different direction we'd be saying that someone else was the savior of the team.

 

[Kingzrool]

As for the relationhip to Kevin...well, its been said before that Kevin is primarily a scorer, not a guy who elevates his teammates. That hasn't changed. He's not a carry you guy. But he's still a better scorer than Beno is a PG. Not a better overall player than Ron though.

I propose that Kevin does elevate his teammates. Maybe not in the traditional way of assists and playmaking, but the defensive attention that is put on him night in and night out creates opportunities for the rest of the team.

When other teams focus their defensive energy on Kevin, the rest of the team benefits.




BTW - nice move to not comment on the comment that you are the only intelligent poster on the board. You just sucked that up huh?

 

[6th]

That's my take on it, too. No slight to Beno, he's been playing well, but with a roster that was just as skewed in a different direction we'd be saying that someone else was the savior of the team.

Exactly! This team is full of role players. We rely on Kevin for scoring and his rebounding of late has been marvelous. One day, he is the savior. Beno played fantastic against the Spurs. That day, he was the savior. Even then, he needed the big men (Brad and Mikki) to make it work. Beno has a specific role, as does Brad, as does Mikki, as does Kevin, as does <insert any other player's name>.

Ron, since he has played a team game; played to make everyone better; has given up a majority of selfish forced shots; and, has the best overall talent of anyone on the ballclub, has had more impact on the club and on the win loss record. When Ron was suspended to begin the season, our record as 2-5. Since Ron's return, the club is 3-4. Maybe not a huge improvement, but an improvement none the less.

 

[6th]

I propose that Kevin does elevate his teammates. Maybe not in the traditional way of assists and playmaking, but the defensive attention that is put on him night in and night out creates opportunities for the rest of the team.

When other teams focus their defensive energy on Kevin, the rest of the team benefits.

WORD!!

 

[Mozart]

Bibby/Beno

#2, why not have two point guards? One is simply not enough. Beno most likely won't stay healthy for the entire season and I'd hate to return to the position of having no point guard. That was a horror show.

Hmmm, good thought there. I hadn't thought of this option. It would be great if this could work!


It all depends if the Bibby/Beno team could work together smoothly with the understanding that their PT would depend on:

• Defense
• Offensive production (i.e. hot hand)

• Effective distribution of the ball

• Team-first attitudes, not me-first.

Hopefully the two can learn to work together and not in competition with each other. Not a bad idea. Having both of them working smoothly together would mean that both would be fresh and ready to play every time they enter the game--and this could mean a fresh Bibby AND Beno in the end of the season, as well as the playoffs. Wow.

 

[Kingzrool]

Having both of them working smoothly together would mean that both would be fresh and ready to play every time they enter the game--and this could mean a fresh Bibby AND Beno in the end of the season, as well as the playoffs. Wow.

I am sure Beno would be down, but Bibby.......?????

I actually hope GP gets rid of Mike before he comes back in. I really do not see how his attitude is not going to throw any chemistry that is happening out the window.

On second thought, I will embrace the return of Bibby and his bogus attitude in the name of a better draft pick.

 

[1kingzfan]

OK, I am a big Kevin homer, and despite this, I am first in line to say that he stunk up the gym overall with his play last night.

But I cannot throw him under the bus totally, because he was a significant contributor to that key stretch in the 3rd quarter when the Kings went on the big run to move away from the Spurs. An outside jumper, steal and fast break dunk, another fast break basket, and a tough running one-hander.

In his worst game of the year, he still played a lending hand in the game's beneficial outcome.

 

[6th]

OK, I am a big Kevin homer, and despite this, I am first in line to say that he stunk up the gym overall with his play last night.

But I cannot throw him under the bus totally, because he was a significant contributor to that key stretch in the 3rd quarter when the Kings went on the big run to move away from the Spurs. An outside jumper, steal and fast break dunk, another fast break basket, and a tough running one-hander.

In his worst game of the year, he still played a lending hand in the game's beneficial outcome.

Absolutely, no doubt. I love the fact that Kevin is finding new and exciting ways to benefit the team. Although Kevin is getting many more rebounds (more than most players, actually) it is coming at the expense of losing out on some fast break points he used to get by "leaking out." Now, he stays to help the team get the rebound, resulting in additional possessions and opportunities for the Kings overall. That's pretty unselfish team play.

 

[VF21]

I am sure Beno would be down, but Bibby.......?????

I actually hope GP gets rid of Mike before he comes back in. I really do not see how his attitude is not going to throw any chemistry that is happening out the window.

Have you not watched the games? Mike has been shown MANY times talking with Beno, pointing out things on the court, and generally being TOTALLY supportive. Mike has been on the road with the team, sitting on the bench and being part of the huddles, and he's done nothing at all IMHO to warrant comments about a bad attitude.

He has talked a couple of times with Grant and Jerry during the broadcasts and has actually interrupted himself to praise one of his teammates for something that's gone on during the game while he was talking.

Mike and Beno could easily be a very nice combination at the point, and something we haven't seen since Bobby Jackson left.

 

[kennadog]

Mike and Beno could easily be a very nice combination at the point, and something we haven't seen since Bobby Jackson left.

Exactly! Bibby and Bobby got along great. Why does everyone assume Bibby would not get along with another PG on the team? I'd like to see this team finally have two competent, able PGs for the first time in quite a while. What a concept.

Bibby is a likely trade piece, simply because he is a more tantalizing piece to other teams and the Kings are (hopefully) looking to the future. I do not think a trade will be because Bibby has a bad attitute. If he is traded, I hope the Kings would not go through another long stretch without a decent PG back-up.

Ugly, ugly, it's been and Bibby isn't appreciated sometimes for the absolute workhorse he's been for this team, playing himself to exhaustion and playing hurt, because we had nobody decent behind him.

 

[Insomniacal Fan]

I propose that Kevin does elevate his teammates. Maybe not in the traditional way of assists and playmaking, but the defensive attention that is put on him night in and night out creates opportunities for the rest of the team.

When other teams focus their defensive energy on Kevin, the rest of the team benefits.

I found this funny. Not because the point is silly, but because it's exactly the same argument that Peja apologists were using a few years back. I know I'm not the first to note the congruity between the two players, but substitute Peja for Kevin, and I would have thought I stepped into a time warp by accident.


As to the point you make... Kobe demands triple teams, does he make his teammates better? How would we know?

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Have you not watched the games? Mike has been shown MANY times talking with Beno, pointing out things on the court, and generally being TOTALLY supportive.

I just wanted to chime in on this point: I have no idea where Truckee CA is relative to Sacramento, so I don't know how Kingzrool is watching the games, but as someone who watches from the east coast vis a vis League Pass, I can say that Kings games only tend to get broadcast on LP from the News10/CSN/Whatever the **** broadcast a little less than half the time.

If all I had to go by was what I saw on TV, I probably wouldn't have any particular reason to believe that Bibby was being at all supportive of Udrih.

 

[dude12]

Anywho, I would like to see more posts on this board of careful thought, insight or analysis, or creativity....this board is REALLY at all time LOW in terms of quality posts. Is Bricklayer is the only one with a quality opinion, I don't think so.

You must be kidding. That last sentence made me vomit.

Beno could arguably be viewed as the team MVP but really without KMart's threat to score, Miller's resurgence, and Artest's overall game, I'm not sure who the MVP is for a sub-500 team. I can say who the best player on the team is....Ron Artest. There is no one else in the league who guards all 5 positions on defense. Artest was taking his shot at guarding Tim Duncan!!! This after he guarded 300 lb. Eddie Curry in the post and doing a great job it.

Also nice to see Petrie actually get some credit. Most of the time, many posters will get on here and bash Petrie because he hasn't settled for a mediocre fire-sale of Bibby or Artest. He knows talent and has had Udrih on the radar for a long time. I do recall people clamoring for the likes of Shakur, Wilks, Dee Brown, etc. When the right came along he moved on Udrih. It takes some patience to do some of the deals that will make us better.

Udrih for King's MVP....sure I guess but I don't think he can perform admirably without some of the other guys on this team and visa versa.

 

[Glenn]

Also nice to see Petrie actually get some credit. Most of the time, many posters will get on here and bash Petrie because he hasn't settled for a mediocre fire-sale of Bibby or Artest. He knows talent and has had Udrih on the radar for a long time. I do recall people clamoring for the likes of Shakur, Wilks, Dee Brown, etc. When the right came along he moved on Udrih. It takes some patience to do some of the deals that will make us better.

This is well put. Despite the clamoring for action on Petrie's part, it doesn't mean that a good deal is available. Simply unloading people and accepting another team's garbage serves no purpose. Other GM's know that there may be a desire to unload some players and I suspect they think they can take advantage of the situation much has Petrie has taken advantage in other deals. The poker phrase about knowing when to hold 'em and knowing when to fold 'em comes to mind. We don't know what deals have passed Petrie's way except rumors and our highly active fantasies and wishful thinking.

I don't think Bibby and Udrih need to be bosom buddies in order to each play at a high level.

 

[Jerryaki]

the goodness of the beno signing is offset by the nonsensical moore signing.

 

[Glenn]

the goodness of the beno signing is offset by the nonsensical moore signing.

How did the signing of Moore hurt us? I need to be filled in on this. We are over the cap so can't compete for free agents either now or in the next several years. We can compete for free agents if we don't resign Bibby perhaps but that does not change because of Moore's signing.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Moore being on the team hurts at least in the sense that his presence takes minutes away from younger players that I (if no one else) would rather see the minutes go to.

Whether you think, for example, that Moore is a better player in the short term than Justin Williams is only relevant if we are contending and need to be good right now. We are not, and therefore have no such need. And the thing is that Justin Williams may become a serviceable shot-blocking, rebounding, role-playing power forward. Or he may never rise above the level he's at right now. But nobody yet knows what he's capable of. I think it's safe to say that, after nine years in the league, everybody knows what Mikki Moore is capable of. So, for Moore to get minutes at Williams' expense, or at Hawes' expense, does a disservice to the long-term development of this team.

And yeah, it's nice to look at free agency, and all the money that we should theoretically have available in two years, but I don't see Sacramento becoming any more desirable a location for big name free agents to play two years from now than it is right now. At some point, we're going to have to develop somebody on our own. I mean, doesn't it bother anyone besides me that Martin is basically the only homegrown talent besides Stojakovic that Petrie has ever extended past his rookie contract?

 

[Jerryaki]

^^ what he said.

 

[Glenn]

So it basically has to do with Justin. My guess, as neither you nor I have little info to go on, is that the coaching staff sees little hope for Williams and the organization saw the need to provide the team with SOMEONE to play power forward. We would have entered the season with a disabled SAR, a 19 year old rookie with a bad knee, KT, Williams, and Watkins. In other words, IF Williams turned out eventually to be able to be part of an offensive organization and even dish out an assist every ten games or so, we would have been stuck with KT as the only functioning proven pro until that time that Williams developed. If Williams didn't turn out, we would not have been able to compete at all for the entire season. People would turn to curling for excitement and be complaining that the cable channels had so little coverage of badminton.

If Justin is going to make it, he'll do so in spite of Mikki and if he can't beat out Mikki, he's not very good. I think we can all agree on that. I can foresee Hawes taking minutes away from Mikki and that's fine. I don't think Mikki is going to slow down Hawes at all. Maybe Mikki helps the coach keep Hawes from playing too much on his knee.

I don't see this team as a contender in the immediate future and if our ability to contend is dependent on the development of Williams, I think we are in bad shape.

In the mean time, I as a fan want to see a team that is trying to compete as best it can right now.

Now the comment above was that the signing of Udrih was balanced by the signing of Mikki. That's not an established fact but merely an opinion depending on some things only the coaches know (how well Williams looks in practice) and the philosophy of the GM.

I wanted the poster to answer the question as it appears many people merely mimic what two moderators say as if it is the gospel.

____________________


BTW, I was writing this as someone else mimicked you.

 

[Jerryaki]

well, the thread up to the point where i had posted seemed to be talking about giving credit to petrie where it was due. which is why i pointed out that he has his share of good moves and not so good ones (i.e. beno versus moore).

as for your comments about mimicking the mods, agreeing with them (a lot of times because they present their arguments in a logical manner backed with a good amount of facts and support) doesn't make their word "gospel." merely logical. and it may not be your intent, but it sounds like you are calling (at least me) a parrot to the mods. which is both presumptious and offensive.

you say that you don't think this team is a contender yet you want it to compete as best as it can right now. that sounds a lot like "rebuilding on the fly" which over the course of the past few seasons hasn't worked out so great. really, what was the point of signing moore when you could've played KT at the 4 and we'd be in the exact same spot as we are right now? do you honestly think this team is all that mroe entertaining with moore on it? because i don't. and here we just have a difference of opinion.

we have an MLE to spend every year. we don't have to, you know. certainly not for sub-mediocre talent, who had one (count, ONE) good season during a contract year playing next to one of the all-time great point guards.

***
and just to point out, i called the signing "nonsensical." you are the one who took that to mean "bad." i merely think that it doesn't help us, so why spend 5M this season for it.

 

[Jerryaki]

How did the signing of Moore hurt us? I need to be filled in on this. We are over the cap so can't compete for free agents either now or in the next several years. We can compete for free agents if we don't resign Bibby perhaps but that does not change because of Moore's signing.

whichever way you want to look at it, moore costs 5M a year, 5M more a year we could have once we are under the cap. possibly attract two free agents instead of one? don't know the full timeline of our contracts at the moment, but i didn't think it was wise to spend 5M to make this one already lost season "more entertaining."

 

[TheFifthMookie]

I don't see this team as a contender in the immediate future and if our ability to contend is dependent on the development of Williams, I think we are in bad shape.

So we entered the season with Moore, SAR with a bad knee, a 19 year old rookie with a bad knee, Kenny Thomas, Williams, and Watkins. 6 guys at power forward.

We are in bad shape.

While Williams isn't key in our ability to contend in say 4 years, Moore is -definitely- not key in our ability to contend 4 years out, and Williams -may- be able to contribute out there.

Why not find out now? What do we lose by playing Williams now? a few games? going 20 wins instead of 25? 18 instead of 24?

 

[dude12]

Moore being on the team hurts at least in the sense that his presence takes minutes away from younger players that I (if no one else) would rather see the minutes go to.

Whether you think, for example, that Moore is a better player in the short term than Justin Williams is only relevant if we are contending and need to be good right now. We are not, and therefore have no such need. And the thing is that Justin Williams may become a serviceable shot-blocking, rebounding, role-playing power forward. Or he may never rise above the level he's at right now. But nobody yet knows what he's capable of. I think it's safe to say that, after nine years in the league, everybody knows what Mikki Moore is capable of. So, for Moore to get minutes at Williams' expense, or at Hawes' expense, does a disservice to the long-term development of this team.

And yeah, it's nice to look at free agency, and all the money that we should theoretically have available in two years, but I don't see Sacramento becoming any more desirable a location for big name free agents to play two years from now than it is right now. At some point, we're going to have to develop somebody on our own. I mean, doesn't it bother anyone besides me that Martin is basically the only homegrown talent besides Stojakovic that Petrie has ever extended past his rookie contract?

Here we go again. Actually it doesn't bother me what Petrie has done, and since we have been picking late in the draft, its seems about par on what we have gotten and who we have signed to extensions. To be honest, Peja and KMart weren't exactly high lottery picks. I'm going to give Moore more than the dozen or so games we have played before I condemn him. He got a short contract. He's looked better lately. I hope he keeps playing at this level of the last few games. I do know this. He plays better big man defense than all of our other bigs. These younger guys need to earn their minutes. They probably will at some point. When its all said and done, Justin Williams will be a blip on the radar in Kings history and in the NBA.

 

[Jerryaki]

I'm going to give Moore more than the dozen or so games we have played before I condemn him. He got a short contract. He's looked better lately. I hope he keeps playing at this level of the last few games. I do know this. He plays better big man defense than all of our other bigs. These younger guys need to earn their minutes.

i watched moore for a season, his "good" season, last year with the nets. didn't think much of him even then. had good energy, but his life was made easier by kidd and the other shooters that the nets had at their disposal. i didn't think he was all that entertaining.