The Front Office had an entire off-season to get a vet leader type and did not do it, unless they think Luther Head counts.
Just how good are the kings?
- Thread starter Lucivar
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The Front Office had an entire off-season to get a vet leader type and did not do it, unless they think Luther Head counts.
rainmaker
Hall of Famer
IMO, right now, the pf and pg spot are our biggest problems. I don't like what we're getting from Landry right now, and even when he has it going offensively, he isn't helping in the defensive our rebounding departments. I don't see this team making a leap, until Landry is our 6th man.
I'm not sure if the Kings are plannig on having Tyreke move to sg. It appears that way to me, and are trying to increase his touches off the ball, and are having Beno/Head run the offense about half the time they're out there. But Beno is killing us defensively, and tonight was the latest example. The breakdowns start with him, and will continue to do so as long as he's paired with Tyreke.
Now I love Beno, and what he brings to this team, but we need another pg/sg next to Tyreke who can defend. Bottom line. SF is a concern, but Omri should improve. He needs to stop launching 3's every ****ing time he touches the ball though.
Kingster
Hall of Famer
Expectations were too high for this team. I still think they can be a 30-35 win team this year, but that's dependent on health. Tyreke's ankle problems could put this team right back into the "top" 5 draft position. I pray not.
I think much of the optimism of this team surrounded Cousins, and it was unwarranted. Cousins has talent, but predominantly on the offensive side of the ball, and his offense, unlike Tyreke, is dependent on his teamates to get him the ball in the right situations. That's not a strong point of this team right now, so his strength is not being fully utilized. His weakness on defense, however, cannot be hidden. It's tougher being a rookie center in this league than a rookie guard, no doubt. Tyreke had an immediate payoff. Cousins' is going to have a longer term payoff (hopefully).
The last two games have seen the Kings miss a ton of outside shots. I don't think that is going to last for the rest of the year.
PS The Clippers are an anomaly. Very talented, but unfortunately saddled with one of the biggest losers ever to put on the uniform - Baron Davis. Once Davis is gone and they have a decent pg, they could be extremely good. Right now, they are taking underachievement to never before seen levels. I really can't ever remember a team this talented that has so underperformed.
I think much of the optimism of this team surrounded Cousins, and it was unwarranted. Cousins has talent, but predominantly on the offensive side of the ball, and his offense, unlike Tyreke, is dependent on his teamates to get him the ball in the right situations. That's not a strong point of this team right now, so his strength is not being fully utilized. His weakness on defense, however, cannot be hidden. It's tougher being a rookie center in this league than a rookie guard, no doubt. Tyreke had an immediate payoff. Cousins' is going to have a longer term payoff (hopefully).
The last two games have seen the Kings miss a ton of outside shots. I don't think that is going to last for the rest of the year.
PS The Clippers are an anomaly. Very talented, but unfortunately saddled with one of the biggest losers ever to put on the uniform - Baron Davis. Once Davis is gone and they have a decent pg, they could be extremely good. Right now, they are taking underachievement to never before seen levels. I really can't ever remember a team this talented that has so underperformed.
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gunks
Hall of Famer
Haha, for real. What happened to B-Diddy? It seems like once he signed in LA he just stopped giving a damn. I really hope they get rid of guarunteed contracts in the new CBA. Doubtful though. Those things are the bread and butter of a lot of lazy players.
Those numbers are deceiving since they only reflect offense. Put into consideration Beno's defense and I am pretty sure he will net negative.
Are you familiar with Martin and the Bibby of the post-glorious era years?
To me, the Kings is a very good team. We have acquired significant starter talents, but most of those talents are new to the team. So I am giving Westphal a pass on whatever failed experiment he will keep on doing for the first 30-40 games. BUT, if coach Westphal is not able to turn this "relatively new" team into a winning team (a team winning more than half of it's game) by the middle of the season, I will call for his head.
We have the personnel to win more games.
We have the personnel to win more games.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
I had, and still have great expectations for Cousins, and I think by mid season he'll be completely different player than he is now. He's being hindered with fouls, and the ref's aren't giving him and breaks in that regard. That one that was called on him making his move to the basket should have been a foul on Monroe, who reached in as he went by and got his arm under Cousins arm. But it is what it is. Your right about defense. I saw Cousins get lost in the rotations at least twice. Once again, not all his fault. On one occasion I saw him make a move to rotate and he was being held by Wallace. Welcome to the NBA.
Your right about it being harder for a center than a guard. A guard is basicly responsible for just his own man. The center is responsible for his own man, plus anyone else that beats one of his teammates, like Beno for instance. He's the last line of defense and therefore has more responsiblites. So it takes time. Cousins is a quick learner. He started slowly at Kentucky, but quickly improved. I'm starting to think that if he could get his playing weight down to 260/265, he could be a load to handle. He has very quick feet right now that would only get quicker with a little less weight..
I'm a little late with my support but I couldn't agree with you more. I was at the game yesterday afternoon and we were hampered by youth maladies - Cousin's inexperience and paying his rookie dues as fouls, hurried or poor shot selection, our best 20 year old's sore ankle, not big deals if we had more options.
I and my compatriats on KF do this all the time. Maybe sometimes we're misguided. Sometimes we get to the right answers first and sometimes we don't get to them at all. Join the club.
Good post. I agree on most of this. I agree with the opening note on what we need. All it takes is huge bucks but that's what we need. Not having it, we have to do the best we can and mostly lump it. Let's come back to this question, say, at the end of January.
Udrih isn't underrated; he's rated exactly where he should be.
Larry David
Starter
As to the All Star issue, barring an injury, 4 guards are locks with Kobe, Williams, Nash, and Paul. There are typically 5 guards and sometimes 6.
At this point, I can’t see the coaches moving Tyreke ahead of Westbrook. With Roy banged up, Manu probably also in line for an appearance. Wins and paying your dues matter a lot to the coaches.
Evans is in the next tier. Also in the running this year would be Gordon and Ellis. To a lesser extent Parker, Richardson, and Martin. I can't see him making it.
At this point, I can’t see the coaches moving Tyreke ahead of Westbrook. With Roy banged up, Manu probably also in line for an appearance. Wins and paying your dues matter a lot to the coaches.
Evans is in the next tier. Also in the running this year would be Gordon and Ellis. To a lesser extent Parker, Richardson, and Martin. I can't see him making it.
kennadog
Dog On It!
Being a fan of:
Clippers?
Whitesox or Cubs?
Raiders for the last 8-9 years?
Buffalo Bills?
or living in:
Detroit?
North Dakota in winter and Death Valley in summer?
Somalia?
Having to live with your in-laws?
Never being able to fold a map back the way it came?
Saying you were a dork/nerd in high school and people saying you still are?
Getting a bad grade on a school paper you paid someone to write?
Having people laugh at you when you're on the dance floor?
Being stood up by a blind date?
Being suckered by another one of your teenager's...er..."stories?"
Reaching retiement age and you still don't know what you want to be when you "grow-up?"
Saying you're 70 (you're 60) and the other person doesn't say "You look so young for your age?"
Kingster
Hall of Famer
I think we agree with the exception of timing. I don't think by mid-season Cousins will be a much different player than what we see now. It's going to take at least an off-season of perspective, looking at film, and some much needed cardio training to get him going. Also, it's going to take more seasoning of his teamates to get him the ball in the right spot. The schedule gets tougher as the year progresses. More back to backs, more traveling, and maybe a lot more long losing stretches. He's really going to be tested this year more than any time in his basketball career, by far. Because he's a first year guy who is not in great shape on a losing team, that's going to make it very tough for Mr. Cousins, especially in the mental/emotional area. He just has to continue to work and have patience, both with himself and his teamates. This is boot camp for him. I just want him to survive this year and commit like a Navy Seal for next year.
kingsboi
Hall of Famer
rainmaker
Hall of Famer
I heard Detroit is usually nice from Aug 1st -Aug 5th.
I had a moment last week when I realized my baseball team (Oakland A's) very likely won't exist in 5 years and my basketball team (Sacramento Kings) might not either. That was pretty depressing. Though, I would have a lot more free time on my hands I suppose because there's no way I would ever watch MLB or the NBA again if that happens.
kingsboi
Hall of Famer
That's why you could switch over to the NFL and enjoy a sport where its not dominated by one franchise every year.
IfAt1st
Starter
Name the Kings players doing better than him this year.
Support for your opinion, with examples and hopefully stats to back it up, would be refreshing.
wow, I found the color control, too
Only if I am rooting for the other team to win.
kingsboi
Hall of Famer
No love?
I think part of the real question in this thread and other threads is: What were the fans expectations of the team? Were they too high?
Unfortunately, grouping fans into one expectation is a bad idea. Some people expected playoffs, which I thought was ridiculous, others said just miss the playoffs, maybe 30 wins, expect DMC to get ROY, etc. There were many varied expectations.
I think you could say that most fans expected improvement, and what I will say and speak for all fans in saying is that I don't think anyone will be accepting of tanking a third year in a row. You just don't tank three years in a row. You got to start climbing up the win chart and showing signs. Right now, there are no signs.
Unfortunately, grouping fans into one expectation is a bad idea. Some people expected playoffs, which I thought was ridiculous, others said just miss the playoffs, maybe 30 wins, expect DMC to get ROY, etc. There were many varied expectations.
I think you could say that most fans expected improvement, and what I will say and speak for all fans in saying is that I don't think anyone will be accepting of tanking a third year in a row. You just don't tank three years in a row. You got to start climbing up the win chart and showing signs. Right now, there are no signs.
Aenadin
Starter
The kings are good enough to compete, or at least put up a good fight with the really good teams, the problem is the rotation itself, IF we really want to utilize the Tyreke is "The lebron of point guards" then START Garcia alongside him, Having two "PG" having beno play the role of SG negates that advantage and robs the bench of a solid point when tyreke sits. seriously the kings have all the tools to become a competitive team, the coaching staff just needs to utilize and play the cards right.
we havent even seen much of whiteside....
i'd like to see a white side at 4 and cousins at 5 or dally on 5 and whiteside on 4 combinations....
thompson and landry SHOULD come off the bench, our starters should be
Evans
Garcia
Casspi
Cousins
Dally
we havent even seen much of whiteside....
i'd like to see a white side at 4 and cousins at 5 or dally on 5 and whiteside on 4 combinations....
thompson and landry SHOULD come off the bench, our starters should be
Evans
Garcia
Casspi
Cousins
Dally
rainmaker
Hall of Famer
I agree. It's still very early, and I think most of us realize that, despite different levels in complaining.
The problem the franchise is currently running into with the more casual fans, is that after the constant marketing this past summer, the hype, the "Here We Rise" slogan, and enormous posters of Tyreke and Cousins, etc, the team has taken a nose dive after a 3-1 start. Even though some on here are more upset than other at this point, most realized this was a possibility, and that this in fact is completely normal for young teams.
I don't fault the Maloofs for the marketing, but given our recent play, and where this team looks to be, it might have come too soon.
Your argument is specious. Which Kings are doing better than Udrih this year is not relevant, and here is why:
I don't know if you've noticed this, but what Udrih is or is not doing is quite immaterial to whether or not he is underrated. It's not an "if-then" statement. Udrih, to this point in the season, has been about the third-best player on the Kings roster. Well, the third-best player on the Pistons, to this point in the season, has been Charlie Villanueva, and he's not very good; the third-best player on the Nets has been Travis Outlaw, and he's not any good. In the NBA, even the ****ty, bottom-feeder teams are going to have three guys that get you double figures, just by osmosis. Simple mathematics dictates that somebody has to be the third-best player; that doesn't mean that that player is underrated.
So, a better question to ask would be whether or not I think that we could pull in another PG "off the street," so to speak, that could do the same thing that Udrih is doing. And the answer to that question would be yes. There are probably three dozen guards in the NBA who, given the same role and minutes on this team, could probably put up the same numbers, and have the same (or possibly greater) impact, for less money. I'm not going to name three dozen, but here are a few:
Louis Williams
Will Bynum
Delonte West
CJ Watson
Earl Watson
Jordan Farmar
Shannon Brown
Jason Williams
That's just a quick handful of names, off the top of my head. And I didn't even bother to name any starters or guys still on their rookie contracts. Every single one of those guys is a journeyman in the league, and has played for two or more teams. And you could put any one of those guys on the Kings, give him Udrih's minutes, Udrih's touches, and Udrih's role on the team, and they would produce just as well, if not better, than Beno Udrih. So, no, Udrih is not underrated; he's rated exactly where he should be.
ZZ-TOP
G-League
2010-11 Statistics
Jason Richardson
PPG 22.3
RPG 5.10
APG 1.6
EFF + 19.56
Tyreke Evans
PPG 19.5
RPG 5.00
APG 5.5
EFF + 18.00
It is time to smell the roses.
Tyreke will once maybe be a better player then Jason Richardson.
But at this moment he is NOT.
And Richardson is as instrumental for the Suns as Tyreke is for the Kings at the moment.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
You're a one topicd poster, and that one topic is Tyreke, but you really need to check yourself whenever you start to post something aggressively stupid.
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