Jon Brockman Signing

[Kingsguy881]

It's been well discussed that 2010 was, in fact, pretty much accepted as being the target year to actually set the plan in motion with this year being the one to lay the foundation. I don't see why people are expecting Petrie to do the impossible. It seems to me that some people are just plain anti-Petrie and refusing to wait until next year to see if he can, in fact, pull it together again.

I'm sorry, Brickie, but you giving Petire the whole off-season to fall into step with YOUR parade makes no sense whatsoever. No offense meant whatsoever, but it isn't your parade I'm going to stand in line and pay money to watch.

The old aggressive rebuilding Petrie didn't do everything at once back then either. And it started with a key piece like Vlade. I think there are going to be opportunities to get a new key piece during the next TDOS as the FA class of 2010 looks to be interesting to say the least.

I can only imagine the cries of derision and scorn if Petrie did do something this year that didn't work as we expected and, as a result, we didn't have the ability to be participants in the 2010 fun...

Quite right.....really, the 2 best FA available were Odom and Iverson and I can't see us really wanting and using either to help out our future. As far as any trades are concerned, a wait and see attitude is the best one to have at this point, because until Evans sets foot on the court and shows how well he can command this team we don't know what we have.

 

[AriesMar27]

Get in line -- I said many months ago when this interminable offseason began that with the Maloofs saying they weren't going to meddle I was going to give Geoff this offseason, this entire offseason, to prove that the old aggressive rebuilding Geoff of '98 was back rather than the snoring old man of the last half decade. Well entering the final weeks of an offseason following the worst year in franchise history guess what? zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz....

exactly... but i am willing to wait and see what happens in the 2010 offseason. i'm betting that nothing will be happen, we will draft a new player or two and sergio will hopefully be re-signed. but i dont see any big name free agents signing with the kings next year.

 

[gunks]

Trade deadline. I think Petrie is waiting, knowing he can probably swing some better stuff around then, better know what we have.

Maybe Reke stinks at the point, but beasts as an SG?....Martin + KT's expiring aint a bad package, we could get a stud for that.
Perhaps a playoff team loses thier starting PG? Let some desperate GM take Beno off our hands.

And lets not forget about our stable of SFs, I think at least one of them is gone by the end of next season, all valuable throw ins.

The FA crop of 2009 stunk. I would have dug us getting Sessions, but we'd really have to have a taker for Beno or else he WOULD be the next KT (at this point I think there is still a chance some doofy team will take him if he has a good month or two).


I'm going to extend my goodwill to GP to the trade deadline. If he still does nothing at that point THEN its time to round up the villagers with torches and pitchforks.

 

[AriesMar27]

Trade deadline. I think Petrie is waiting, knowing he can probably swing some better stuff around then, better know what we have.

Maybe Reke stinks at the point, but beasts as an SG?....Martin + KT's expiring aint a bad package, we could get a stud for that.
Perhaps a playoff team loses thier starting PG? Let some desperate GM take Beno off our hands.

And lets not forget about our stable of SFs, I think at least one of them is gone by the end of next season, all valuable throw ins.

The FA crop of 2009 stunk. I would have dug us getting Sessions, but we'd really have to have a taker for Beno or else he WOULD be the next KT (at this point I think there is still a chance some doofy team will take him if he has a good month or two).


I'm going to extend my goodwill to GP to the trade deadline. If he still does nothing at that point THEN its time to round up the villagers with torches and pitchforks.

and dont forget some nice throwing rocks... you cant riot unless someone gets hit in the head with a nice sized throwing rock.

 

[Prince_XY]

It seems Petrie has been sabotaging the Maloofs' business for the past several years because of unknown reasons - either that OR he really stinks as a GM. What he had shown were blunders after blunders for a lot of years now, or since that time he got lucky with assembling the Webber/Divac team.

Petrie is well over-rated by those who keep on defending Petrie's moves.

Some even think Petrie is a genius. ...

 

[Kingsguy881]

It seems Petrie has been sabotaging the Maloofs' business for the past several years because of unknown reasons - either that OR he really stinks as a GM. What he had shown were blunders after blunders for a lot of years now, or since that time he got lucky with assembling the Webber/Divac team.

Petrie is well over-rated by those who keep on defending Petrie's moves.

Some even think Petrie is a genius. ...

And what are you basing this marvelous piece of suspect journalistic opinion on? The fact that the Maloofs told Petrie to rebuild on the fly, around first Bibby Peja and Miller and then around Artest and Martin?

Yeah, he stinks as a gm, he has had no picks higher than 10 for the past decade (save Reke), he is working for a small market where it is tough to get people to want to come, and yet his team is only 3 years removed from the playoffs. Big failure hunh?

 

[sidney]

It's been well discussed that 2010 was, in fact, pretty much accepted as being the target year to actually set the plan in motion with this year being the one to lay the foundation. I don't see why people are expecting Petrie to do the impossible. It seems to me that some people are just plain anti-Petrie and refusing to wait until next year to see if he can, in fact, pull it together again.

I'm sorry, Brickie, but you giving Petire the whole off-season to fall into step with YOUR parade makes no sense whatsoever. No offense meant whatsoever, but it isn't your parade I'm going to stand in line and pay money to watch.

The old aggressive rebuilding Petrie didn't do everything at once back then either. And it started with a key piece like Vlade. I think there are going to be opportunities to get a new key piece during the next TDOS as the FA class of 2010 looks to be interesting to say the least.

I can only imagine the cries of derision and scorn if Petrie did do something this year that didn't work as we expected and, as a result, we didn't have the ability to be participants in the 2010 fun...

I'm not seeing any 2010 fun. If 2010 was the "target year" why did Petrie trade 2010 expiring contracts at the last deadline and bring back a longer contract in Nocioni? Because of that move in addition to the shrinking cap we won't be able to offer any large contracts. In addition, at least 1/3 of the teams have cap space next summer so competition will be greater. Something could happen but it just doesn't look good. Financial relief alone could have been achieved by trading Salmons for expiring contracts. That was totally doable.

I can see the thread now at the end of summer 2010:
Anti Petrie: Wonderful, another summer where we didn't do anything of impact
Pro Petrie: He didn't have enough cap space to compete. He's not a magician!
Anti-Petrie: Then he should have traded vets for expiring contracts earlier to give us more cap room
Pro Petrie: How do you know he didn't try! I'm quite sure he was doing everything in his power but 2 teams have to agree to make a trade work! Not everything is reported!
Anti Petrie: How many years are we going to have to watch him sit on his hands before it is clear he is not doing a good job
Pro Petrie: I think he has plans for the trade deadline...or summer 2011...or?

 

[Circa_1985_Fan]

I think it's safe to say that Petrie is still doing some housecleaning and is leaving the real remodeling and redecorating for the not so distant future after this season. He just knocked down a couple of big walls and pulled all the carpet up the past year or so, he'll buy the paint and redo all the cabinets this year...next year comes the start of buying new furniture, electronics, and appliances. Be patient folks, Rome or the Kings can't be rebuilt in a day or two anymore. The climate in the NBA isn't what it was in 1998.

 

[sidney]

I think it's safe to say that Petrie is still doing some housecleaning and is leaving the real remodeling and redecorating for the not so distant future after this season. He just knocked down a couple of big walls and pulled all the carpet up the past year or so, he'll buy the paint and redo all the cabinets this year...next year comes the start of buying new furniture, electronics, and appliances. Be patient folks, Rome or the Kings can't be rebuilt in a day or two anymore. The climate in the NBA isn't what it was in 1998.

For example, Nocioni's contract will be the difference between having 8m in cap space and 15m next summer. That's huge.

It may be housecleaning, but not housecleaning for a significant FA signing. Housecleaning to save $$ in the short term, perhaps.

As further evidence, Petrie tried to get Nate R + Jared Jeffries for KT at the deadline which would have taken another 6-7m off our cap space for 2010 since Jeffries contract is another 2 years.

There is really no evidence that Petrie is housecleaning so he can make significant FA moves next summer. In fact, he has made 2 moves recently to indicate otherwise.

 

[sdballer]

I'm not seeing any 2010 fun. If 2010 was the "target year" why did Petrie trade 2010 expiring contracts at the last deadline and bring back a longer contract in Nocioni? Because of that move in addition to the shrinking cap we won't be able to offer any large contracts. In addition, at least 1/3 of the teams have cap space next summer so competition will be greater. Something could happen but it just doesn't look good. Financial relief alone could have been achieved by trading Salmons for expiring contracts. That was totally doable.

Thank you for bringing this up. Everyone keeps talking about 2010 when there is going to be massive competition for FA, which we will struggle with due to our market, status, etc. Yet if that was the target, we traded away a tremendous bargaining chip in Miller for nothing of real value. Between his contract and KT's, they would have had $20 million in expiring deals at the trade deadline. Anyone think NY or any of the other teams in the hunt for Lebron won't be willing to trade some young talent and picks to clear space?

Basically, we're in cost cutting mode and Petrie just doesn't seem to have the same creativity he did in the past. Maybe the Maloofs wore him down, maybe the losing did. But either way, my patience as a fan is pretty much gone. Sometimes, a necessary rebuild can include the GM as well.

 

[Circa_1985_Fan]

For example, Nocioni's contract will be the difference between having 8m in cap space and 15m next summer. That's huge.

It may be housecleaning, but not housecleaning for a significant FA signing. Housecleaning to save $$ in the short term, perhaps.

As further evidence, Petrie tried to get Nate R + Jared Jeffries for KT at the deadline which would have taken another 6-7m off our cap space for 2010 since Jeffries contract is another 2 years.

There is really no evidence that Petrie is housecleaning so he can make significant FA moves next summer. In fact, he has made 2 moves recently to indicate otherwise.

I agree with that...buy I do think that there will be one significant purchase on the FA market next summer...add that with another lottery pick, another year's experience for our young guys, and the foundation has some real solidity to it then.

 

[Circa_1985_Fan]

As an addition to the above: by significant purchase, I wouldn't ever include nor think it would be anything in the way of a Labron type of player...that's senile.

 

[sidney]

As an addition to the above: by significant purchase, I wouldn't ever include nor think it would be anything in the way of a Labron type of player...that's senile.

true. We aren't getting Lebron. I do believe there will be an incredible amount of player movement, however. Having a ton of cap space puts us right there in the mix the take advantage of any opportunities that arise. I suppose I am just frustrated that Petrie doesn't value that unknown opportunity as much as bringing in guys like Nocioni and attempts for Nate Robinson/Jared Jeffries.

 

[Circa_1985_Fan]

true. We aren't getting Lebron. I do believe there will be an incredible amount of player movement, however. Having a ton of cap space puts us right there in the mix the take advantage of any opportunities that arise. I suppose I am just frustrated that Petrie doesn't value that unknown opportunity as much as bringing in guys like Nocioni and attempts for Nate Robinson/Jared Jeffries.

I understand some people are frustrated with Nocioni and his contract, but I think his positive value will truly be known when we're a more competitive team on a nightly basis. I think some people will change their tunes once they/we hopefully see the reality of this.

 

[kupman]

Maybe Petrie is taking everyone's advice around here and (re)building through the draft this time rather than with trades and/or FOs.

This is just my guess, but I think the GP will be criticized no matter what he does or does not do until the Kings win 50 games/year again. It will be at that time that people will be coming out of the woodwork to say that the re-build design was actually their idea.

 

[sidney]

I understand some people are frustrated with Nocioni and his contract, but I think his positive value will truly be known when we're a more competitive team on a nightly basis. I think some people will change their tunes once they/we hopefully see the reality of this.

My take on that trade was that it was a culture/style move rather than a talent move. Out with 2 whining softies (Brad, Salmons) and in with a tough, 100% effort, defense playing vet. Numbers alone he is worse than Salmons in almost every way playing the same position. Had to be a personality move.

The problem was that in the last two months of the season we heard more about his griping than his leadership. The experiment is not going well.

 

[sidney]

Maybe Petrie is taking everyone's advice around here and (re)building through the draft this time rather than with trades and/or FOs.

This is just my guess, but I think the GP will be criticized no matter what he does or does not do until the Kings win 50 games/year again. It will be at that time that people will be coming out of the woodwork to say that the re-build design was actually their idea.

Petrie is a solid albeit conservative drafter. Other than that...

Nobody bats 1000 in this game. Utah a few years ago is what I would call a great example of a small market team rebuilding. Shed contracts to create space, got really bad fast, got a high draft pick and got Deron, signed young (at the time) promising talent in Boozer and Okur. All in a couple of years I believe. It wasn't perfect but that's the kind of multi pronged approach needed to turn a horrible team around. There was a plan. There was urgency.

 

[SacTownKid]

I'm not seeing any 2010 fun. If 2010 was the "target year" why did Petrie trade 2010 expiring contracts at the last deadline and bring back a longer contract in Nocioni? Because of that move in addition to the shrinking cap we won't be able to offer any large contracts. In addition, at least 1/3 of the teams have cap space next summer so competition will be greater. Something could happen but it just doesn't look good. Financial relief alone could have been achieved by trading Salmons for expiring contracts. That was totally doable.

I can see the thread now at the end of summer 2010:
Anti Petrie: Wonderful, another summer where we didn't do anything of impact
Pro Petrie: He didn't have enough cap space to compete. He's not a magician!
Anti-Petrie: Then he should have traded vets for expiring contracts earlier to give us more cap room
Pro Petrie: How do you know he didn't try! I'm quite sure he was doing everything in his power but 2 teams have to agree to make a trade work! Not everything is reported!
Anti Petrie: How many years are we going to have to watch him sit on his hands before it is clear he is not doing a good job
Pro Petrie: I think he has plans for the trade deadline...or summer 2011...or?

Very good point that needs to be recognized. With the possibility of a shrinking cap we're looking at about 8 million in cap space next year tops. He's going to have to trade/draft his way out of this.

 

[AriesMar27]

I'm not seeing any 2010 fun. If 2010 was the "target year" why did Petrie trade 2010 expiring contracts at the last deadline and bring back a longer contract in Nocioni? Because of that move in addition to the shrinking cap we won't be able to offer any large contracts. In addition, at least 1/3 of the teams have cap space next summer so competition will be greater. Something could happen but it just doesn't look good. Financial relief alone could have been achieved by trading Salmons for expiring contracts. That was totally doable.

I can see the thread now at the end of summer 2010:
Anti Petrie: Wonderful, another summer where we didn't do anything of impact
Pro Petrie: He didn't have enough cap space to compete. He's not a magician!
Anti-Petrie: Then he should have traded vets for expiring contracts earlier to give us more cap room
Pro Petrie: How do you know he didn't try! I'm quite sure he was doing everything in his power but 2 teams have to agree to make a trade work! Not everything is reported!
Anti Petrie: How many years are we going to have to watch him sit on his hands before it is clear he is not doing a good job
Pro Petrie: I think he has plans for the trade deadline...or summer 2011...or?

and thats exactly how its going to go down here.... if petries target was the 2010 offseason he wouldnt have re-signed beno and garcia to 5 yr contracts and traded for nocioni. okay, garcia is understandable. beno and nocioni adds 11 million dollars to our salary that we could use to lure a big name free agent or work out a trade.

if your goal was 2010 you dont sign someone like beno to be your starting pg. if your goal was 2010 you dont trade a 2010 expiring contract for nocioni.... petrie doesnt have a plan for this team.... either he really doesnt or the maloofs have a really bad plan for this team.

 

[kennadog]

Petrie is a solid albeit conservative drafter. Other than that...

Nobody bats 1000 in this game. Utah a few years ago is what I would call a great example of a small market team rebuilding. Shed contracts to create space, got really bad fast, got a high draft pick and got Deron, signed young (at the time) promising talent in Boozer and Okur. All in a couple of years I believe. It wasn't perfect but that's the kind of multi pronged approach needed to turn a horrible team around. There was a plan. There was urgency.

A key point in Utah is that the coach wasn't fired. Ownership backs/trusts Sloan all the way.

 

[sidney]

A key point in Utah is that the coach wasn't fired. Ownership backs/trusts Sloan all the way.

This is correct. Times got tough in Utah, owner, GM, and coach stuck together and made a solid plan and are reaping the benefits. Times got tough in Sac...

 

[Kingsguy881]

and thats exactly how its going to go down here.... if petries target was the 2010 offseason he wouldnt have re-signed beno and garcia to 5 yr contracts and traded for nocioni. okay, garcia is understandable. beno and nocioni adds 11 million dollars to our salary that we could use to lure a big name free agent or work out a trade.

if your goal was 2010 you dont sign someone like beno to be your starting pg. if your goal was 2010 you dont trade a 2010 expiring contract for nocioni.... petrie doesnt have a plan for this team.... either he really doesnt or the maloofs have a really bad plan for this team.

Ok, how did Petrie get Webber to Sacramento? By trading Otis Thorpe(expiring) and Mitch Richmond(almost retiring) to make the salaries work, right? Signed Vlade to a contract worth around 60 million IIRC.

So who is to say he can't trade Nocioni(still a valuable player) and KT(expiring) for a newly reupped Stoudemire, or somebody else prior to the trade deadline?

Or what about a sign and trade, now that KT will be off the books and a team knows they are going to lose their star player, trade for Noc and Beno and take the salary cap relief of KT for their star player. Until it happens, we just don't know.

But if we let Petrie go, who are we going to get to do his job? He has so far taken two seperate teams over the course of 2 decades into a) the NBA championship and b) the cusp of a championship. So who are we going to get that is proven and can do the same thing? Who?

 

[Circa_1985_Fan]

Ok, how did Petrie get Webber to Sacramento? By trading Otis Thorpe(expiring) and Mitch Richmond(almost retiring) to make the salaries work, right? Signed Vlade to a contract worth around 60 million IIRC.

So who is to say he can't trade Nocioni(still a valuable player) and KT(expiring) for a newly reupped Stoudemire, or somebody else prior to the trade deadline?

Or what about a sign and trade, now that KT will be off the books and a team knows they are going to lose their star player, trade for Noc and Beno and take the salary cap relief of KT for their star player. Until it happens, we just don't know.

But if we let Petrie go, who are we going to get to do his job? He has so far taken two seperate teams over the course of 2 decades into a) the NBA championship and b) the cusp of a championship. So who are we going to get that is proven and can do the same thing? Who?

And then we do what with Jason Thompson, because I'm sure he's really looking forward to riding the bench behind Amare.

 

[Kingsguy881]

And then we do what with Jason Thompson, because I'm sure he's really looking forward to riding the bench behind Amare.

I was just making an example. I tend to think JT would be more valuable in the long run than Amare, I was just using an excuse of one team who has a disgruntled player at the end of their contract that would be happy for some greener pastures (no cow-town pun intended)

 

[sidney]

Ok, how did Petrie get Webber to Sacramento? By trading Otis Thorpe(expiring) and Mitch Richmond(almost retiring) to make the salaries work, right? Signed Vlade to a contract worth around 60 million IIRC.

So who is to say he can't trade Nocioni(still a valuable player) and KT(expiring) for a newly reupped Stoudemire, or somebody else prior to the trade deadline?

Or what about a sign and trade, now that KT will be off the books and a team knows they are going to lose their star player, trade for Noc and Beno and take the salary cap relief of KT for their star player. Until it happens, we just don't know.

But if we let Petrie go, who are we going to get to do his job? He has so far taken two seperate teams over the course of 2 decades into a) the NBA championship and b) the cusp of a championship. So who are we going to get that is proven and can do the same thing? Who?

The point is not to play the what if game with possible future trades.

Success = disciplined preparation + opportunity.

We can't know what opportunities will be out there in the next year or two but if we keep clogging up our roster with mediocre talent that has no future with our team like Nocioni we limit our ability to take advantage of possible opportunities. That's my argument.

 

[AriesMar27]

Ok, how did Petrie get Webber to Sacramento? By trading Otis Thorpe(expiring) and Mitch Richmond(almost retiring) to make the salaries work, right? Signed Vlade to a contract worth around 60 million IIRC.

So who is to say he can't trade Nocioni(still a valuable player) and KT(expiring) for a newly reupped Stoudemire, or somebody else prior to the trade deadline?

Or what about a sign and trade, now that KT will be off the books and a team knows they are going to lose their star player, trade for Noc and Beno and take the salary cap relief of KT for their star player. Until it happens, we just don't know.

But if we let Petrie go, who are we going to get to do his job? He has so far taken two seperate teams over the course of 2 decades into a) the NBA championship and b) the cusp of a championship. So who are we going to get that is proven and can do the same thing? Who?

if we were going to trade thomas we wouldve done it by now.... lets not kid ourselves into thinking that he has any value in this league even as an expiring contract. who would you trade thomas for? and why would that team want to get rid of whichever player for thomas' expiring contract?

its too late for thomas' contract to help this team obtain a real star player. because if you think that we will somehow trade for amare or bosh or any star pf without trading thompson you are nuts. what team is that dumb? besides the kings...

this is the 2nd time that petrie has failed to plan ahead for the offseason by signing garbage players to contracts that no other team would offer them. peeler.... damn you peeler... and beno last year. that was the dumbest offseason move i have ever seen.... this team couldve won 17 games without signing beno and petrie knew damn well that the 2009 draft was full of point guards....

if petrie's plan was to make a move in 2010 why in the hell would he sign beno to a 5 yr deal? why would he trade a 2010 expiring contract for nocioni and his 4yr contract? had he kept miller and not signed beno we would actually have enough capspace to seriously have a shot at convincing a big name free agent to come here.

 

[Chupacabra]

^ No big name free agent will EVER come to Sacramento unless the Kings offer is far more than the next closest competitors. The Kings would have to overpay by an absurd amount of money to get any top player to decide to sign with the Kings. Strangely, this is one of the big reasons why im such a huge Kings fan. The Kings organization 100% earns all of its success. It can never be attributed to being in a large media market. Its all about basketball savvy.

I actually think the Kings are 1 or 2 moves away from being a playoff team after next season, without signing any big name FA's. We have ALOT of promising young talent already. I hope Brockman realizes as well as everyone else that his sole purpose on the team is to rebound and get loose balls.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

if we were going to trade thomas we wouldve done it by now.... lets not kid ourselves into thinking that he has any value in this league even as an expiring contract.

Expiring contracts have value in the NBA, and that value is not related to the name of the player attached to the contract. This is simple reality. We may trade KT with some other pieces and get something quite valuable in return. We may trade KT more or less by himself and get something moderately valuable in return. Or we may not trade him at all. But the idea that his specific expiring contract has no value and is untradeable flies in the face of recent NBA history.

because if you think that we will somehow trade for amare or bosh or any star pf without trading thompson you are nuts. what team is that dumb? besides the kings...

I personally have no belief that we can trade KT's contract for a player on the level of Amare or Bosh without including something like Thompson at the very least. But WE are dumb enough to trade a player of the Amare/Bosh caliber for an expiring contract and nothing else? Seriously? Do you really think we are the dumbest team in the league or do you just enjoy getting a potshot in when the opportunity arises?

 

[AriesMar27]

Expiring contracts have value in the NBA, and that value is not related to the name of the player attached to the contract. This is simple reality. We may trade KT with some other pieces and get something quite valuable in return. We may trade KT more or less by himself and get something moderately valuable in return. Or we may not trade him at all. But the idea that his specific expiring contract has no value and is untradeable flies in the face of recent NBA history.



I personally have no belief that we can trade KT's contract for a player on the level of Amare or Bosh without including something like Thompson at the very least. But WE are dumb enough to trade a player of the Amare/Bosh caliber for an expiring contract and nothing else? Seriously? Do you really think we are the dumbest team in the league or do you just enjoy getting a potshot in when the opportunity arises?

its not that i enjoy insulting every move that this team makes but the kings front office keeps making these dumb deals.... miller had 2 years left on his deal so what did petrie do? he traded him for a player with a 4 year deal. webber had 2 years left on his contract and what did he do? he traded him for thomas who had a 5 yr deal, corliss and skinner.... bibby was the only player with 2 yrs left on his deal that was traded for expirings which were useless and we ended up signing beno to a 5yr deal because we no longer had a pg.... now we have 3, well... 2 and evans.... well, 1 pg, beno and evans....

yeah.... they are that dumb.

thomas' expiring contract will most likely not be used in a trade this season. if there was a move to be made it wouldve been done by now. we are not good enough to get through half a season before making a move to improve this team unless thomas is traded for a player with a long contract and limited star potential..... i would be more than happy to see thomas be traded with beno or nocioni for a larger expiring but thats not gonna happen.... unless people are looking forward to a half season rental of amare or bosh, they are the only star players that seem to be available... no other team will be willing to trade their star for our garbage... hell i dont think that phx or toronto would make that trade unless thompson was included so thats not gonna happen.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

its not that i enjoy insulting every move that this team makes

Frankly, I think you do.