John Hollinger Article On ESPN.com

[QoooooQ]

I used to like the espn.com NBA page, but I think it's gotten worse this year. Seems like it's become Hollinger's personal NBA stat blog since they publish his latest calculations about twice a week. And that stuff just bores me to death.

 

[est.1999]

I hate that they always have hollingers rankings on the espn bottomline. Efficiency rankings, rookie rankings, all this nonsense he has come up with that inlcudes stats based on his moronic formulas is just that: moronic.

 

[Prince_XY]

Tyreke has improved his offensive patience and his willingness to pass at times, but its still one of his weaknesses. He doesn't have an aggressive passing mode in which he can attack through passing. If he's passing, he is normally playing passively. The same way he becomes passive playing without the ball. It's like if he isn't dribbling the ball then he has no offensive awareness going on in his head. One of the reasons his passes are almost always late, which really can't show in Hollinger's beloved stats, but which even Tyreke PR people admit to.

As if more than 90% of the time Evan's passes are late.

Maybe you should edit your post and put "sometimes" or "many times" instead of "almost always". I've seen so many games and I actually didn't see that much late passes from Evans.

Are you really watching the Kings' games/NBA or the Euro League?

 

[coban]

I hate that they always have hollingers rankings on the espn bottomline. Efficiency rankings, rookie rankings, all this nonsense he has come up with that inlcudes stats based on his moronic formulas is just that: moronic.

Maybe because he is an expert for NBA ?

 

[DocHolliday]

This means nothing to me. Jordan, and Kobe were called ball hogs early in their career. ESPECIALLY Jordan. Jordan had at least the first 4-5 years of his career HEAVILY criticised as a ball hog. He became one of the best players the game has ever seen. If that's what it leads to, I'm ok with that.

By the way.....13 assists in a game?? that's a ball hog?

 

[mr. moustache]

This means nothing to me. Jordan, and Kobe were called ball hogs early in their career. ESPECIALLY Jordan. Jordan had at least the first 4-5 years of his career HEAVILY criticised as a ball hog. He became one of the best players the game has ever seen. If that's what it leads to, I'm ok with that.

By the way.....13 assists in a game?? that's a ball hog?

I don't think tyreke is much of a ball hog, but Steph Marbury delivers assists up the yinyang, but you could still call him s ball hog

 

[Kingsguy881]

John Hollinger is a goofy looking idiot.

 

[Spike]

Maybe because he is an expert statistician for NBA ?

Fixed. There are lies, damn lies, and statistics. I like to think of him (Hollinger) as a clipboard coach - good on paper, but can't adjust when things don't go according to plan.

 

[Widowmaker2k]

Hollinger mentioned that part of the reason is watching Evans play. He states that Evans looks to score at all times, while looking for teammates comes as a last resort. So he does add in subjective analysis along w/his stats.

As for offensive flow, I definitely agree that Tyreke has improved. That's all we really can ask for at this point; identifying weaknesses, and taking steps to rectify them.

Well, he's averaging 8 APG the last 10 games, and 7.5 in march. If all of those assists are coming by accident, that's quite incredible indeed.

 

[Sparky6string]

He doesn't score enough to be a ball hog- barely over 20 a game. He produces with the ball in his hands, a ballhog either does not produce or is one dimensional IMO.

Stats only get you so far really, and as precise as they can be, they can also be misleading.

 

[swisshh]

I would say a ballhog is someone who hogs the ball.

 

[Oscar]

Tyreke is a ball hog. Right now that's a given. I also maintain that's not necessarily a bad thing. He is rapidly establishing himself as the go-to guy in crunch time. And as he advances in his career, he'll figure out the balance between being a ball-hog and picking the right place and time to take the shot. Look at players who came before him. Except for Bird and Magic, great individual players like Jordan, LeBron and Kobe were all ball hogs early on in their careers, and they all developed a great team game.

 

[NewArena]

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insi...espn.go.com/nba/insider/news/story?id=5063940

Does anyone have this ESPN Insider article? It is a debate between Ric Bucher who think Tyreke Evans should be ROY, and Chris broussard, who think it should go to Jennings. Neither of them think that Curry is worthy.

Thank you. BTW im not asking for the whole article, i know that is against the rules.

 

[OnYouLikeGlue]

Here's pretty much what they said

Bucher: Evans is the most dominant rookie and the player out of this draft class he would choose to build a team around. He plays both sides of the floor and has improved and grown throughout the season despite a lack of talent and veteran leadership on the team. And the fact that Evans takes over at crunch time impresses him.

Broussard: Agrees Evans is the most dominant rookie but that Jennings team success outweighs that. Jennings has improved everyone on the team and plays good defense, something neither Tyreke or Curry do (lost credibility with this argument). Jennings is also the first rookie pg to start and lead a team to a 6th seed or higher since the 01-02 season (Seriously?)

 

[coban]

Here's pretty much what they said

Bucher: Evans is the most dominant rookie and the player out of this draft class he would choose to build a team around. He plays both sides of the floor and has improved and grown throughout the season despite a lack of talent and veteran leadership on the team. And the fact that Evans takes over at crunch time impresses him.

Broussard: Agrees Evans is the most dominant rookie but that Jennings team success outweighs that. Jennings has improved everyone on the team and plays good defense, something neither Tyreke or Curry do (lost credibility with this argument). Jennings is also the first rookie pg to start and lead a team to a 6th seed or higher since the 01-02 season (Seriously?)

It's a questionable if Jennings is still a rookie because he had one season in Europe where he haven't play a lot like he does in NBA ?

But there is a fact that Bucks are improved a lot if we look last season and this season. Maybe Redd injury helped Bucks to improve (Is Redd ball hogger?). We all see how Bogut improved this season till he injured.

It's hardly to know what has helped the team has progressed - Redd injury or explosion of other participants?


Tyreke is a beast we all know , but we don't know what will happen with him next seasons , maybe he go to play for bigger city/market (knicks) , team or bigger pay ..

 

[Chupacabra]

Tyreke is a ball hog. Right now that's a given. I also maintain that's not necessarily a bad thing. He is rapidly establishing himself as the go-to guy in crunch time. And as he advances in his career, he'll figure out the balance between being a ball-hog and picking the right place and time to take the shot. Look at players who came before him. Except for Bird and Magic, great individual players like Jordan, LeBron and Kobe were all ball hogs early on in their careers, and they all developed a great team game.

I thought he was less of a ball hog early in his career. But yes, Evans is still VERY raw. He will gain alot in the coming years.

 

[mac]

It's a questionable if Jennings is still a rookie because he had one season in Europe where he haven't play a lot like he does in NBA ?

But there is a fact that Bucks are improved a lot if we look last season and this season. Maybe Redd injury helped Bucks to improve (Is Redd ball hogger?). We all see how Bogut improved this season till he injured.

It's hardly to know what has helped the team has progressed - Redd injury or explosion of other participants?


Tyreke is a beast we all know , but we don't know what will happen with him next seasons , maybe he go to play for bigger city/market (knicks) , team or bigger pay ..

Highly doubt this, based on his personality. Works both ways, unlikely that Reke would want to go to a bigger city and unlikely that the bigger city would want such a quiet personality.

And I also highly doubt any other team will offer him a bigger pay than we will.

 

[Bricklayer]

Highly doubt this, based on his personality. Works both ways, unlikely that Reke would want to go to a bigger city and unlikely that the bigger city would want such a quiet personality.

And I also highly doubt any other team will offer him a bigger pay than we will.

er...when his time comes up every team in the league will offer him the max, whatever that may be under the new CBA. Ask Cleveland or Toronto how fun it is to have a free agent hi the free agent market. Hell, we went through it with Webb too.

Just hope however the new CBA is structured it retains some variety of the Bird exception and the extra year you can offer your free agents so the home teams retain their edge in keeping guys. If the owners are so damned eager to adopt the football system with its hard cap (which sucks BTW -- we never would have had our golden era with those rules, we couldn't have retained our core), then they damn well better include the franchise player tag the way the NFL does as well, ESPECIALLY in basketball where it is so much more critical to have that franchise guy to build around than it is in football (except for the great QBs).

 

[est.1999]

Lebron was pretty passive his first few years. I always said he needed to take more control and shoot more and once he did that they became virtually unstoppable

 

[venom_7]

I wonder what career assist percentage says about this list of players? (Assist percentage is an estimate of the number of teammate FGs - assisted or unassisted - that the player assisted on. It turns out that the leaguewide average value should be about 14.1.)

Humphries: 5.9
Ilyasova: 7.6
A. Jefferson: 7.6
Beasley: 8.5
Nocioni: 8.7
R. Wallace: 9.7
A. Harrington: 10.3
Ariza: 11.8
J.R. Smith: 14.2
Hughes: 17.9
Ellis: 18.1
Pargo: 21.8
Evans: 26.3
Arenas: 27.1
T.J. Ford: 34.5

Wow. Evans sure looks like a "chucker", all right. Now, I didn't get a chance to see the article (because I'm not enough of a sucker to pay for ESPN's Insider material - ha!) but let's even take into account the fact that Evans shoots a lot.

Usg% suggests that Tyreke is the last player to touch the ball on 26% of the team's possessions. We play 94 possessions/game, so Evans "uses" 24.5 possessions a game (including TOs) and is responsible for 20.0 + (at least) 11.6 (5.8 ast/game * 2) = 31.6 points = 1.29 points per "chuck".

What about a guy like Brandon Jennings, who does kind of look like a "chucker"? Usage of 26.1%, uses 24.0 possessions per game (91.9 poss/game), is responsible for 15.4 + 11.6 = 27.0 points = 1.13 points per "chuck". Hmm, not as good as Tyreke.

Jennings shoots .370 while Tyreke shoots .455. They have the same assists/game. And Hollinger is telling me that Evans is the chucker? OK, dude.

And this is exactly why I trust you with everything statistical.

 

[Superman]

Tyreke is a ball hog. Right now that's a given. I also maintain that's not necessarily a bad thing. He is rapidly establishing himself as the go-to guy in crunch time. And as he advances in his career, he'll figure out the balance between being a ball-hog and picking the right place and time to take the shot. Look at players who came before him. Except for Bird and Magic, great individual players like Jordan, LeBron and Kobe were all ball hogs early on in their careers, and they all developed a great team game.

Agreed, except for LeBron. He was always criticized for being too willing to pass, as recent as two playoffs ago when he passed to a wide open teammate who missed instead of taking the last shot himself. He might force some shots up, sometimes outside the flow of the offense, but that's essentially because he IS the offense.