Dime Dropper
All-Star
So if someone doesn't want Ron back they're a hater? That's a great argument you got there.
Joe Maloof Says "Kings Want to Extend Ron Artest"
- Thread starter Purple Reign
- Start date
So if someone doesn't want Ron back they're a hater? That's a great argument you got there.
My vote would be for, "I have no idea, I don't get involved in decisions like that. Geoff could tell you."
upinsmoke
All-Star
On the contrary i have made counltess arguements on why artest is good for the team.
Dime Dropper
All-Star
And that counts for what? People disagreed with you, which is fine since nothing you said was factual, and then you call them haters. Your post does nothing to discredit the validity of my question.
Ron is going to achieve nothing for us. I'm sick of waddling along in this mediocrity. I have nothing against Ron, he is a great player when he exerts himself correctly but he is not what this team needs. We need to rebuild. That also means getting rid of any liabilities which could harm us long term (Ron).
Jechtsphere
Starter
Yeah he's the best on the team when he wants to be and that only happens once in a while.
Jechtsphere
Starter
They don't skip playing games against bad teams like Artest, the so called Artest haters apparently are the only ones not blind.
Lets see....
I don't recall either of them running into the stands to beat up on the fans, asking for time off to promote an album, telling the team he's retiring then changing his mind, getting arrested multiple times, or the multitude of other things he's done that causes friction in the locker room for the team and the coach....
Kingster
Hall of Famer
Didn't most of those things happen before he was a Sacramento King? Seriously, I don't understand why this continues to be such a problem for people. I don't see how anything Ron did when he played somewhere else are reasons why we shouldn't keep him in Sacramento. Yes he screwed up in the past, but that was known when he came here in the first place. The question is how he's performed as a member of the Sacramento Kings for the last two and a half seasons, not what he did before that.
Most, but not all. Actually, his most disruptive behavior here happens to be clashing with the coach, waiting until the last second to decide whether he feels like playing in any particular game, and run ins with the law for various reasons. All very mellow compared to some earlier transgressions, but not trivial.
Also, you can't just wipe off the old stuff and say it never happened. No matter how much you would like to....
upinsmoke
All-Star
Fresno King
Starter
I think it all depends on what happens in the draft lottery. If we get lucky and get a 1-5 pick, then I think Artest becomes more expendable. If it's another middle of the road pick, then Artest stays. But no matter what, if he's on the opening night roster for 08-09, he's going to be involved in a lot of trade deadline talk regardless if he doesn't get a multi-year deal from the Kings. Same goes for Miller.
And if Artest does get a multi-year deal, then Petrie should consider packaging Salmons and Miller together. Salmons is useless coming off the bench. More times than not, he's been pretty unemotional and out of the loop on the floor, IMHO. I think he wants Artest out of Sac more than anyone so he can start.
And if Artest does get a multi-year deal, then Petrie should consider packaging Salmons and Miller together. Salmons is useless coming off the bench. More times than not, he's been pretty unemotional and out of the loop on the floor, IMHO. I think he wants Artest out of Sac more than anyone so he can start.
Löwenherz
Starter
Let me preface this by saying my favorite Kings players have been, in succession, Michael "the Animal" Smith, Doug Christie and Ron Artest. I love intense, defensive enforcers and no one can deny number 93 is easily at the top of the list.
That being said, the front office botched any chance to build a contending team with Artest (keep in mind, I didn't say "around Artest") during the off-season following the Spurs series.
Two fatal mistakes doomed the Artest experiment:
1: Letting go of Adelman - a coach Artest appeared to, at least on the surface, respect, and for whom Artest had been playing well and openly lobbied to keep. And worse yet, replacing him with an inexperienced, undisciplined (DUI), brown-noser in Muss.
2: Continuing to ignore the enormous hole at Power Forward. We knew SAR and K9 weren't going to cut it ... so the FO responded by drafting an undersized scoring PG and signing an athletic, free agent swingman.
Going in, there was the opportunity to mimic the "sum-is-better-than-the-parts" pre-brawl Pacers by adding a defensive, inside presence to balance out the roster (As I've mentioned, Tyson Chandler was available) ... instead we went into the race driving a Ferrari with a flat tire.
Now it's too late. We don't have the trade assets to make this team a contender with Artest and don't have the financial flexibility to lure meaningful free-agents.
The only option is to go through the draft and by the time those players develop (assuming we're lucky enough to get valuable prospects), Artest will either be gone or past his prime.*
While I like Artest, I don't believe he can be the cornerstone of a contender. He either needs to be in the Rodman role as the enforcer teamed with a Super Nova like David Robinson and M.J. whom he would respect enough to defer -- or a part of a balanced system like the pre-brawl Pacers.
Yes, Artest is clearly the best player on the Kings ... and unfortunately, therein lies the problem.
*(Enforcers like the 11-year-veteran Ron - i.e Xavier McDaniel, Maurice Lucas, Anthony Mason and Dennis Rodman -- generally seem to have a 12-year shelf life of productivity. Charles Oakley lasted much longer at 16 years)
That being said, the front office botched any chance to build a contending team with Artest (keep in mind, I didn't say "around Artest") during the off-season following the Spurs series.
Two fatal mistakes doomed the Artest experiment:
1: Letting go of Adelman - a coach Artest appeared to, at least on the surface, respect, and for whom Artest had been playing well and openly lobbied to keep. And worse yet, replacing him with an inexperienced, undisciplined (DUI), brown-noser in Muss.
2: Continuing to ignore the enormous hole at Power Forward. We knew SAR and K9 weren't going to cut it ... so the FO responded by drafting an undersized scoring PG and signing an athletic, free agent swingman.
Going in, there was the opportunity to mimic the "sum-is-better-than-the-parts" pre-brawl Pacers by adding a defensive, inside presence to balance out the roster (As I've mentioned, Tyson Chandler was available) ... instead we went into the race driving a Ferrari with a flat tire.
Now it's too late. We don't have the trade assets to make this team a contender with Artest and don't have the financial flexibility to lure meaningful free-agents.
The only option is to go through the draft and by the time those players develop (assuming we're lucky enough to get valuable prospects), Artest will either be gone or past his prime.*
While I like Artest, I don't believe he can be the cornerstone of a contender. He either needs to be in the Rodman role as the enforcer teamed with a Super Nova like David Robinson and M.J. whom he would respect enough to defer -- or a part of a balanced system like the pre-brawl Pacers.
Yes, Artest is clearly the best player on the Kings ... and unfortunately, therein lies the problem.
*(Enforcers like the 11-year-veteran Ron - i.e Xavier McDaniel, Maurice Lucas, Anthony Mason and Dennis Rodman -- generally seem to have a 12-year shelf life of productivity. Charles Oakley lasted much longer at 16 years)
DirtyAcres
G-League
Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
Sure, Artest may have matured and cleaned up his act but you cannot simply pretend none of the other stuff happened. And making sarcastic one liners when people are trying to have a civil discussion about it doesn't help at all. Some fans are able to forget all that stuff; others aren't. And it's not just here. Artest has been a polarizing figure for a long time and probably will be until the day he retires.
Jerryaki
Starter
bingo. it's called establishing a precedent. and while some people may be able to forgive/forget, that doesn't make the precedent go away nor lessen the chances of something similar occurring.
and while we're at it, what's with the "let's bring in more players to complement ron!" argument? isn't it just freakin' easier to replace him (the distracting force)??? if he were such a great player, wouldn't he be elevating his teammates no matter who they were or what the situation?
the argument again boils down to retool or rebuild, and i think we see where retooling has gotten us.
and while we're at it, what's with the "let's bring in more players to complement ron!" argument? isn't it just freakin' easier to replace him (the distracting force)??? if he were such a great player, wouldn't he be elevating his teammates no matter who they were or what the situation?
the argument again boils down to retool or rebuild, and i think we see where retooling has gotten us.
AyeCarly
G-League
They used to only pull the balls for the 1st 3 picks and automatically give 4 thru 13 (or whatever) by the worst record. Has this changed?
Dime Dropper
All-Star
No, hasn't changed. The lottery is still only for the first 3 picks, the rest is based on record.
And our chances of going 12th or 13th are 97.5%. With only a 1/40 chance of an early pick, I'd recommend that people forget about the lottery and assume we're picking 12th (93.5%), rather than get headaches worrying about something that's not going to happen.
Although we could still drop to 11th.
Bibby_10
Bench
This is the best post yet. Thank you.
I would love to have seen Artest on a team like the Spurs. Playing with a big man like Duncan. And for everyone that keeps bringing up his past.. get over it. seriously.
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Jerryaki
Starter
well, that's a solid argument right there.
Bibby_10
Bench
That wasn't an argument for him to stay. It just gets old hearing the same garbage over and over again. We know what he did in his past. Let it rest.
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Jerryaki
Starter
ditto on hearing the same garbage defense of it. but hey, i didn't bring it up, this opened the door for it:
He's not gonna implode anytime soon, so enjoy him instead of worrying
JoMama
Bench
I tend to agree with your post. It's logical and makes sense - unlike some others on this thread.
One thing about Artest - he plays hard every night, something Salmons doesn't do. When we're talking head cases, Salmons needs to be in the conversation.
We also know what he's presently doing. Presently, he doesn't show up to play for all of his games, he self-proclaims to take games off (figuratively and literally) for weaker opponents. There's your .500 record right there. If he's really for the team, then he'd have played those games in which he would have made the biggest difference, not just the marquee matchups. When Mikki Moore, yes Mikki Moore, calls you out [I think the term was "I don't know what to expect anymore"], that should send some red flags. Ron Artest is not only a divisive figure on this forum, but clearly in the locker room as well. All of this reflects the info presented THIS year, not junk from past years.
Showtime
Starter
If Artest is not traded in the offseason, and returns for the 08/09 season, I will not be attending any games. If they sign him to an extention, then I will no longer be attending Kings games until something is done that lets me know the Malooffs don't still have their heads up their own asses.
CruzDude
Senior Member sharing a brew with bajaden
Listening to Grant and Mike Lamm on KHTK tonight with the comparisons of CWebb and RonRon, which I agreed with 99%, I can't see how the Kings can consider keeping a disruptor like RonRon and his selfish ways. I knew CWebb was a prima donna and RonRon has some PD ways but unlike CWebb, RonRon is like a box of chocolates, you never know what your gonna' get..... or when your going to get it.
I love RonRon's game but he has to go for the sake of the team.
I love RonRon's game but he has to go for the sake of the team.
I'm not saying Ron is as good as Chris was, cuz he's not. I'm also not going to say Webb had the same personality, cuz he didn't and that is a whole other debate to discuss(I know it would make a lot of people mad also).
Anyway, IF Ron IS like Webber, that is just a whole other reason to keep him(again I'm not saying he is, but according to Grant and Mike he supposedly is). This whole team went down the crapper when we got rid of Chris. Sorry but that is just their hatred of Chris talking causing a stupid bias. Chris was the best thing to ever happen to the Kings and the only reason we were a good team EVER(besides Rick). If Ron was like Chris(again I'm NOT SAYING he is, Grant and Mike are so I'm talking as if said comparison was accurate) that is just a reason to keep him, because a player like Webber is someone you have to keep no matter what(even after the knee injury he was a hell of a player).
Grant is a flippin moron and you should never listen to anything he says EVER.
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