If you mean Jimmer, I'm with you. He played better at the end of last year which I think means TEAM is part of the equation. The fact that TRob had to bail him out is unfortunate as we learnd little about TRob except that he can handle the ball. He never got to play PF and I think part of that is because he felt the need to protect Jimmer. Maybe that's an exaggeration. I just hope tonight we can actually gain something from this SL and have people play non-pressing basketball and allow us to see our guys playing a normal game. As soon as Charlotte came out in a press, the game was predicatable. It would be silly to ban pressing except in the last 10 minutes of the game or something of that sort but the all game full court press didn't seem very sporting and I swear I would say that if the Kings did it. If they can add the number of fouls a player can accrue (the Cousins rule?) they can say no pressing.
It ruined the game for the Kings and frankly, I'm not sure what the Bobcats got out of that. Are they going to use full court pressure all next year? I doubt it.
It ruined the game for the Kings and frankly, I'm not sure what the Bobcats got out of that. Are they going to use full court pressure all next year? I doubt it.
The more the merrier.
I don't doubt he has the skills to help a team, it appears he has a case of the yips though, it can be hard to shift that mindset once it sets in.
I think whether or not we bring T-Will back will have a lot of bearing on how Jimmer does this season, T-Will appeared to really help settle Jimmer down last season, a mentor of sorts, and he always looked to get him the ball and encourage him to take his shots.
I don't know this for a fact but Jimmer seems "too nice," he made his name taking shots and being agressive, It's Summer League, he needs to rediscover that edge here or he never will.
I don't doubt he has the skills to help a team, it appears he has a case of the yips though, it can be hard to shift that mindset once it sets in.
I think whether or not we bring T-Will back will have a lot of bearing on how Jimmer does this season, T-Will appeared to really help settle Jimmer down last season, a mentor of sorts, and he always looked to get him the ball and encourage him to take his shots.
I don't know this for a fact but Jimmer seems "too nice," he made his name taking shots and being agressive, It's Summer League, he needs to rediscover that edge here or he never will.
The other side of a full court press though is that most NBA quality PG's love it. Press them in the backcourt and they'll blow by you and immediately have a 5 on 4 advantage. If the table were turned and Jimmer pressed Kemba fullcourt, Kemba would have loved it as he'd blow by Jimmer in the backcourt and have an advantage crossing halfcourt each time.
I see what you're saying, but imo an NBA PG's eyes should light up if there's a full court press as they immediately have an advantage. If Char did that to Reke or IT we'd have a numbers advantage the other way most possessions, which is why NBA teams rarely do it. That's why Jimmers lack of improvement with his handle is so alarming. He knows how teams scout him and that the last half of the season he was pressured regularly as it immediately disrupted our flow. At the minimum an NBA PG has to at least get in a position to set up the offense with 15 secs on the shotclock. Jimmer was only able to set up the offense a handful of times. Was only the first summer league game but it didn't look good at all.
But I also don't think at his age he can't really improve his handle that much. Maybe a little, but I brought this up before as it's similar to a first touch in soccer, where the first touch or your handle in basketball is developed at an early age. You rarely see guys age 23 develop their handle or first touch in either sport beyond a minimal amount. Guys can get smarter and better hide their limitations, but you need to be able to get past halfcourt, break a press and set up the offense before that comes into play.
I see what you're saying, but imo an NBA PG's eyes should light up if there's a full court press as they immediately have an advantage. If Char did that to Reke or IT we'd have a numbers advantage the other way most possessions, which is why NBA teams rarely do it. That's why Jimmers lack of improvement with his handle is so alarming. He knows how teams scout him and that the last half of the season he was pressured regularly as it immediately disrupted our flow. At the minimum an NBA PG has to at least get in a position to set up the offense with 15 secs on the shotclock. Jimmer was only able to set up the offense a handful of times. Was only the first summer league game but it didn't look good at all.
But I also don't think at his age he can't really improve his handle that much. Maybe a little, but I brought this up before as it's similar to a first touch in soccer, where the first touch or your handle in basketball is developed at an early age. You rarely see guys age 23 develop their handle or first touch in either sport beyond a minimal amount. Guys can get smarter and better hide their limitations, but you need to be able to get past halfcourt, break a press and set up the offense before that comes into play.
Summer league is a no-win situation for a player. Play well, and the excuse "it's only Summer league" will fly non-stop. Don't play well, and the "he sucks and will never amount to anything" crap flies instead.
Truth is, we've seen Jimmer play better than he did last night in a "real" NBA game so I think everybody is overreacting quite a bit. Hell, his very first preseason game against the Warriors, he scored 21 points and looked pretty good. Did that translate for the entire season? Nope. So why does last night's performance? Would it have been nice to see Jimmer, Whiteside AND Robinson all put up triple doubles? Sure. But just because they struggled doesn't mean they won't improve. In fact, that's exactly why they are playing in Summer league .. to figure things out and improve their game.
Jimmer is still in the stage of figuring out what he can't do. In college, he did whatever he wanted and had the ball in his hands all the time. His confidence was sky high, which enabled him to perform even better than he really is. Now, his confidence is at an all time low because he hasn't quite learned what he can't do and is trying to force things a bit hoping it'll start to click again. This is the same funk he found himself in his first year and a half in college. He eventually figured it out and improved greatly.
I'm willing to give him 3 years and if he hasn't shown much improvement, then I'll be willing to pull my support. However, we are't there yet. Too bad most of you expect a PG overnight. History proves that rarely happens. This is the kids first official Summer league and training camp. How about cutting him some slack?
Truth is, we've seen Jimmer play better than he did last night in a "real" NBA game so I think everybody is overreacting quite a bit. Hell, his very first preseason game against the Warriors, he scored 21 points and looked pretty good. Did that translate for the entire season? Nope. So why does last night's performance? Would it have been nice to see Jimmer, Whiteside AND Robinson all put up triple doubles? Sure. But just because they struggled doesn't mean they won't improve. In fact, that's exactly why they are playing in Summer league .. to figure things out and improve their game.
Jimmer is still in the stage of figuring out what he can't do. In college, he did whatever he wanted and had the ball in his hands all the time. His confidence was sky high, which enabled him to perform even better than he really is. Now, his confidence is at an all time low because he hasn't quite learned what he can't do and is trying to force things a bit hoping it'll start to click again. This is the same funk he found himself in his first year and a half in college. He eventually figured it out and improved greatly.
I'm willing to give him 3 years and if he hasn't shown much improvement, then I'll be willing to pull my support. However, we are't there yet. Too bad most of you expect a PG overnight. History proves that rarely happens. This is the kids first official Summer league and training camp. How about cutting him some slack?
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Oh he can shoot. Its all about confidence and whether you have it or not. Once it gets in your head, its hard to shake it sometimes. You just have to keep working until your confidence comes back. As a baseball player, I would compare it to a slump for a hitter. You never know how they start, and your not sure why they suddenly end. Jimmer has a lot on his plate right now, and I think some it is affecting the rest of his game, like his shooting. Its just something he has to work through.
One positive, is that almost every shot he took from the outside, was a good open shot, so he was able to get his shot. But in watching him play for 3 years at BYU, I can't ever remember him missing that bad on several sequences in a row. Personally I think he's putting too much pressure on himself. He just needs to relax, and attack. Right now he's playing back on his heels, and nothing goes right when your trying not to make mistakes. Thats the same thing as playing not to lose. You know what happens when you do that? You lose!
One positive, is that almost every shot he took from the outside, was a good open shot, so he was able to get his shot. But in watching him play for 3 years at BYU, I can't ever remember him missing that bad on several sequences in a row. Personally I think he's putting too much pressure on himself. He just needs to relax, and attack. Right now he's playing back on his heels, and nothing goes right when your trying not to make mistakes. Thats the same thing as playing not to lose. You know what happens when you do that? You lose!
I agree completely. Jimmer struggled his first year of college as well. But to his credit, he improved every year. I would expect him to play better tonight. There were several times in last nights game where he was being guarded by Gilchrist, and a few times by Taylor. both those guys would give anyone in the league trouble, much less a young PG still trying to figure things out. People are so quick to judge and discard. If anyone remember's Dirk Nowitzki's first year in the league, you'll remember there were nights where the home crowd booed him. He struggled mightilly his first year. Steve Nash didn't look like Nash until his 5th year in the league.
As you said, I'm willing to give him this year and next, and if nothing changes by then, we let him go or trade him. Its not like he's costing us an arm and a leg. He's hardly the major problem with the team. It would nice if he turned out to be an asset though.
As you said, I'm willing to give him this year and next, and if nothing changes by then, we let him go or trade him. Its not like he's costing us an arm and a leg. He's hardly the major problem with the team. It would nice if he turned out to be an asset though.
I just can't shake the impression that he looked lost out there last night. That was the reason for my concern. Is it tied into his confidence? Is this something he has to work through himself or can he gain confidence and assurance from his teammates? I like Jimmer and I would most definitely like to see him succeed.
The first person who I can think of would be Jerry Rice. Yep the Hall Of Fame 49er dropped a ton of passes early in his career. He turned out alright.
As for Jimmer he better learn to break a full court press because every team will bring it until he does. Breaking the press may take some practice and his team mates need to help him. I hope to see improvement.
Last year teams were putting Junk Yard Dog type defenders on him and he had trouble dealing with it. Salmons and J Will as back court mates did seem to help.
I'm pulling for Jimmer just like I pull for every player who puts on a Kings uniform. Go Kings!
KB
As for Jimmer he better learn to break a full court press because every team will bring it until he does. Breaking the press may take some practice and his team mates need to help him. I hope to see improvement.
Last year teams were putting Junk Yard Dog type defenders on him and he had trouble dealing with it. Salmons and J Will as back court mates did seem to help.
I'm pulling for Jimmer just like I pull for every player who puts on a Kings uniform. Go Kings!
KB
I know what you're saying but there's a big difference between Jerry Rice, who was running the right patterns but just couldn't hold onto the football, and Jimmer Fredette, who looked at times like he didn't even know where to be, what he should be doing, who he should be looking for, etc. I want Jimmer to succeed. I do not want to send his jersey to the Island of Lost Kings. I will be watching tonight and hopefully see a difference in his demeanor and confidence. I'll be more than happy with just a glimmer.
Yes, he can shoot. Problem with Jimmer is that he is lacking in every other part of his game. When someone is in a shoot slump, they can at least walk away knowing that other parts of their game worked. Defense, rebounding, assists... something. But Jimmer doesn't have that right now, so how do you get that confidence back? Especially when the more you miss shots, the less your teammates are going to give you the ball. It may not be Jimmers fault that he ended up in Sacramento in an unstable environment with a shortened season, but it's up to him alone to take control of his career or it could be a short one. Reke doesn't want to play SF and IT can run the team already. Jimmer has to show someone something right now. Summer League or preseason may be his best shot to prove it.
All true, I agree with you
Jerry Rice had the advantage of a Bill Walsh designed offense and Joe Montana call the shots.
In Summer League Jimmer has new to being a coach Bobby J, Rookie TRob and a bunch of duffers.
Good Luck Jimmer
The Warriors are playing Denver now. Klay Thompson sure looks like a top young player.
KB
Jerry Rice had the advantage of a Bill Walsh designed offense and Joe Montana call the shots.
In Summer League Jimmer has new to being a coach Bobby J, Rookie TRob and a bunch of duffers.
Good Luck Jimmer
The Warriors are playing Denver now. Klay Thompson sure looks like a top young player.
KB
I see what you're saying, and I do think Jimmer can contribute in this league, but let me disagree a little bit with the Nash/Dirk comparison. I think those two should be compared more to a guy like Reke, in that the talent was there, it was just getting up to the flow/speed of an NBA game.
I do think Jimmer has a place in this league, but more and more I think it's an off the ball, Reddick type role. When comparing Jimmer to Nash in his earlier years, of course Nash wasn't near the player he is today, but I think a lot of that is how well he reads the game at this point. But when Nash came into the league eventhough he wasn't reading the game at the same speed he now does, his handle was still damn good and he was pretty quick.
He had to over time learn where his spots would be and then develop runners/one-footers/step backs for when he got to those spots, but with Nash I never saw an inability with his handle or speed to get to those spots, which is what I see with Jimmer. Parker is another example of a guy who had the speed/handle when he arrived, but it took a few years to figure out where his spots would be, when to attack, when to pull it out, when to give it to Duncan, etc, but the actual ability to get to those spots wasn't ever in question.
I don't like the Dirk comparison because his game was never dependent on needing an improved handle to get to his spots. It was more post work and foot work to get his shot off. With Jimmer there is now doubt of whether he even has the tools to ever get to the spots he needs to, let alone go through the experience of how to execute when he does get to those spots down the road. The NBA is about windows, just like receivers in football, where the game is so fast and the guys are so big you need to know where those windows are and be ready to do whatever it is you do when you get to those windows, as they higher the level the quicker they close. The better the player, the more windows there are, as they see opportunities where less talented players don't. But can Jimmer even get to where those windows for NBA PG's are? It's a valid question at this point.
I hope for the best with Jimmer, but I really don't think a guy his age will all the sudden improve his handle that much. I'd love for him to do it, but it's not something I've seen with NBA players. I've yet to see an NBA PG who had trouble even getting into a position to set up the offense, improve his handle enough to become a successful rotational PG, let alone a starting PG. I would love to see what would happen with Jimmer's confidence if we played him off the ball, off screens, let him concentrate on what he does best, shooting, and let his confidence build. I really do think we're doing a disservice to Jimmer by forcing him to run the team. But, we'll see where it goes, it was only the first summer league game.
I do think Jimmer has a place in this league, but more and more I think it's an off the ball, Reddick type role. When comparing Jimmer to Nash in his earlier years, of course Nash wasn't near the player he is today, but I think a lot of that is how well he reads the game at this point. But when Nash came into the league eventhough he wasn't reading the game at the same speed he now does, his handle was still damn good and he was pretty quick.
He had to over time learn where his spots would be and then develop runners/one-footers/step backs for when he got to those spots, but with Nash I never saw an inability with his handle or speed to get to those spots, which is what I see with Jimmer. Parker is another example of a guy who had the speed/handle when he arrived, but it took a few years to figure out where his spots would be, when to attack, when to pull it out, when to give it to Duncan, etc, but the actual ability to get to those spots wasn't ever in question.
I don't like the Dirk comparison because his game was never dependent on needing an improved handle to get to his spots. It was more post work and foot work to get his shot off. With Jimmer there is now doubt of whether he even has the tools to ever get to the spots he needs to, let alone go through the experience of how to execute when he does get to those spots down the road. The NBA is about windows, just like receivers in football, where the game is so fast and the guys are so big you need to know where those windows are and be ready to do whatever it is you do when you get to those windows, as they higher the level the quicker they close. The better the player, the more windows there are, as they see opportunities where less talented players don't. But can Jimmer even get to where those windows for NBA PG's are? It's a valid question at this point.
I hope for the best with Jimmer, but I really don't think a guy his age will all the sudden improve his handle that much. I'd love for him to do it, but it's not something I've seen with NBA players. I've yet to see an NBA PG who had trouble even getting into a position to set up the offense, improve his handle enough to become a successful rotational PG, let alone a starting PG. I would love to see what would happen with Jimmer's confidence if we played him off the ball, off screens, let him concentrate on what he does best, shooting, and let his confidence build. I really do think we're doing a disservice to Jimmer by forcing him to run the team. But, we'll see where it goes, it was only the first summer league game.
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Jimmer actually wasnt bad against the Lakers for most of the game. If he made some of his 3's he wouldve had a good game. He just needs to regain some confidence to start hitting those shots. He drove the ball, used screens well, and made some good passes which we have not seen from him in his brief time in the NBA. Im looking forward to see him grow from this performance.
I am not sure Jimmer can regain his swag while with the Kings. I think his teammates want to see him succeed and want to see those Jimmer threes raining, but the situation of the entirety of the Kings isn't all that positive. I feel that Cousins is the only player in the last five years who has made an obvious jump in ability and performance from one year to the next. Every other talent has seemed to quickly plateau or fizzle out. You can say JT has become a pretty good big man, but that took four years and he's still inconsistent.
There is no direction or system within the Kings organization. That's not good for young talent. You almost have to be a stubborn mofo like Cousins to succeed in that situation.
There is no direction or system within the Kings organization. That's not good for young talent. You almost have to be a stubborn mofo like Cousins to succeed in that situation.
IMO there's only one way for Jimmer to become valuable to us, and that's if he's played with Tyreke. That would bring us back to the original idea of having Jimmer essentially become Beno with better range, meaning Evans would still be the primary ballhandler and Jimmer would be used more as a shooter/secondary ballhandler. Right now there's no way Jimmer can handle being the main ballhandler.
IT wouldn't work because then Jimmer would have to match up with full-sized SGs, John Salmons doesn't pass to Jimmer and I'm not willing to make Twill our pointguard.
IT wouldn't work because then Jimmer would have to match up with full-sized SGs, John Salmons doesn't pass to Jimmer and I'm not willing to make Twill our pointguard.