Jersey Patches Allowed Next Season

[Trueblood]

Well, things could be worse. I mean, we have some hating the Sea kits, yet their fans pack the stadium to the tune of about 38K per game, which would be about 7th in the Premier League, which is nothing to sneeze at at all. If also flies in the face of whoever said Americans don't like soccer. Here's an interesting stat. MLS averaged more fans per game than either the NBA or NHL last year. So, one could argue MLS is MORE popular, despite soccer being a boring game(lol, baseball isn't?), and is even MORE POPULAR than NBA basketball is in Sac. But i'm sure it's just that the Kings are incredibly popular, yet the same economy which prevents fans from attending games in Sac fills the staduim for a worse sport in Sea. Say what you want, but almost 2.5 as many fans show up for soccer games in Sea than they do for NBA games in Sac.

We can barely ever sellout and get 17,317 unless it's LA or Mia showing up, yet the horrible sport with horrible jerseys gets more fans at the gate. I'd love to have the problem. People are also being insincere about a 2 by 2 patch by acting like it would suddenly turn into a 6 by 6 patch replacing "Kings" on the front of the jersey. Also not sure why some wouldn't want this IF it helped in making the Maloofs case for leaving even tougher, with yet another new line of revenue on top of revenue sharing. Just my opinion.

But you have to take into consideration the size of the stadium that Seattle plays in. Not only that but they have less games in MLS. Therefore, there is more demand for each game.

Some people will say that it doesn't matter because the Kings don't sell out their games so it doesn't matter if they play in a 17,317 seat arena or a 100,000 seat arena. That's wrong though. If you play in a larger arena, that means that there are more lower bowl seats to be sold and you then wind up selling more seats. Lots of fans prefer sitting in a lower bowl and would just prefer to watch on tv as opposed to sitting in the upper bowl. That's why the Sounders have an edge. More good seats to sell means higher attendance. Throw in the demand angle and you have a good idea why they have such good attendance figures.

 

[Dime Dropper]

i agree i think it looks cheesy as hell. the other guy says people dont notice and arent bothered by it with soccer, but then again, soccer is terrible. so if your willing to sit through an entire soccer game then your tastes are obviously different from the average US sports fan.

Ya, soccer is terrible. That's why it's by far the most popular sport in the world. But if the average US fan isn't interested in it, there must be something wrong with the rest of the world, because Americans are never wrong, right? The stupidity of some people never ceases to amaze me. And your argument that American football is "real" football just because it's American is again, idiotic. If you want a logical debate, I'm here. There's no way you can argue AF (a sport where the ball is thrown/caught/carried for the majority of the game) can legitimately be called football while "soccer" can't. I really like AF and I'm not going to demean it, but it pisses me off when people make such blatantly stupid arguments.

 

[Dime Dropper]

No offense, but we're talking about US basketball, not European soccer. I don't think you can presume anything about potential similarities in fan reactions, especially if you look at the riots, violence, etc. that seem to be part and parcel of a lot of soccer fans nowadays.

Well, your line of thinking seems to be a bit dated w/ regards to violence. It certainly occurs, but nothing like in the past. It's rare, isolated incidents nowadays. Holliganism is, for the most part, in the past. And I'm struggling to see it's relevance to the advertising issue, but I do concede that not everyone is going to agree with me on it not being a big deal.

While sponsor logos may look perfectly alright to you, I find them not only distracting but feel like it cheapens the sport. Just my two cents, but I think it helps illustrate the differences in perspective.

Could you explain why you feel it cheapens the sport? I just think the benefits outweight the negatives, especially for a franchise like the Kings. It's only 2x2, I can't imagine it will be very noticable, especially if it's not placed in the center of the jersey.

 

[VF21]

ALL I was saying is that different people have different perspectives. Since you've now resorted to calling my "line of thinking" outdated, etc. I can see no reason to further the discussion. I don't like the idea of advertising patches on jerseys and it will have a strong influence on whether or not I purchase future jerseys if they have them on them. If you don't have a problem, that's fine. Have a nice day.

 

[Dime Dropper]

ALL I was saying is that different people have different perspectives. Since you've now resorted to calling my "line of thinking" outdated, etc. I can see no reason to further the discussion. I don't like the idea of advertising patches on jerseys and it will have a strong influence on whether or not I purchase future jerseys if they have them on them. If you don't have a problem, that's fine. Have a nice day.

VF, I wasn't attempting to offend you. But I think it's clear that your thoughts on hooliganism aren't in line with reality today. If you disagree, could you give me examples of the riots/violence you're referring to in recent years? Again, I'm not belittling your opinion, but I don't think you're correct. A lot of soccer fans are complete idiots, I will give you that. Normally rational people are transformed into apes. But most fans are good people. Hooliganism is well and truly gone in the vast majority of countries. Apologies if pointing this out offends you, but I don't think it would have been fair to Europeans to let something inaccurate slide like that. Nothing personal.

 

[VF21]

79 die in soccer riot in Egypt - Feb 2012
Wild Polish soccer riot - June 2012
Soccer loss sparks riot in Istanbul - May 2012

 

[PurpleHaze]

Meanwhile, watching Spain with their wild home crowd leading USA by 11 so far early on ESPN-2. Ibaka and Spain passing very impressive so far. Oh, TDOS.

 

[Dime Dropper]

79 die in soccer riot in Egypt - Feb 2012
Wild Polish soccer riot - June 2012
Soccer loss sparks riot in Istanbul - May 2012

1. Egypt is not in Europe (I replied to your initial post where you stated we're talking about American basketball, not European soccer).
2. Links? Poland has come a long way in the last few years, as seen by the European Championships that they just hosted without any problems whatsoever. I'm not sure if there was an actual riot or whether the headline is sensationalised, difficult to know without a link. Either way, isolated incidents aren't really relevant. I could just as easily point out situations like this in US sports, and will do if you want.
3. See points one and two. It's politically in European Union, but not so much geographically.

 

[Dime Dropper]

Meanwhile, watching Spain with their wild home crowd leading USA by 11 so far early on ESPN-2. Ibaka and Spain passing very impressive so far. Oh, TDOS.

Spain's ball movement is excellent. US looking stagnant. Still expect them to come out on top, but wouldn't be surprised either way.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Spain's ball movement is excellent. US looking stagnant. Still expect them to come out on top, but wouldn't be surprised either way.

I can't watch, but given that the U.S. has basically one big man (Chandler, with Love now apparently on the deep bench and Davis even deeper) if any team is poised to give the U.S. its rude awakening regarding its dismal roster construction, Spain is it.

 

[Dime Dropper]

I can't watch, but given that the U.S. has basically one big man (Chandler, with Love now apparently on the deep bench and Davis even deeper) if any team is poised to give the U.S. its rude awakening regarding its dismal roster construction, Spain is it.

Certainly. USA are on top now and their defense is getting it done. They started to stifle Spain. Two things that will win it for USA - defense and transition baskets. Spain can give them a tough game, though, and I hope USA don't steamroll through the olympics, for the sake of the neutral fan.

 

[PurpleHaze]

I can't watch, but given that the U.S. has basically one big man (Chandler, with Love now apparently on the deep bench and Davis even deeper) if any team is poised to give the U.S. its rude awakening regarding its dismal roster construction, Spain is it.

Exactly. Chandler picked up 3 early fouls and went to bench since you only get 5 in FIBA. Apparenly, LeBron James is playing center now. Team USA could very well regret not taking Cousins if this thing goes downhill in London.

 

[HereWeBoogie]

anyone else notice how lame the Spain jerseys look because of the ads on them............

 

[whozit]

ALL I was saying is that different people have different perspectives. Since you've now resorted to calling my "line of thinking" outdated, etc. I can see no reason to further the discussion. I don't like the idea of advertising patches on jerseys and it will have a strong influence on whether or not I purchase future jerseys if they have them on them. If you don't have a problem, that's fine. Have a nice day.

My thinking MAY be outdated but I don't really care. I don't like the idea of patches either and yes I think it cheapens the product. When I used to buy team shirts and such, I knew I was buying advertising for the team and wore the shirts proudly. I would not want to buy a shirt in support of the team and have the "added benefit" of providing advertising to some other company or entity that I couldn't give a rats tail about. No leeching allowed!

 

[VF21]

1. Egypt is not in Europe (I replied to your initial post where you stated we're talking about American basketball, not European soccer).
2. Links? Poland has come a long way in the last few years, as seen by the European Championships that they just hosted without any problems whatsoever. I'm not sure if there was an actual riot or whether the headline is sensationalised, difficult to know without a link. Either way, isolated incidents aren't really relevant. I could just as easily point out situations like this in US sports, and will do if you want.
3. See points one and two. It's politically in European Union, but not so much geographically.

1. If you look at the context of my comment again, you'll see that I was speaking of soccer in general terms, with the "European" tag probably unnecessary but included at the time to differentiate between non-American sports/fans and those here in the US.

2. Here's your link: http://msn.foxsports.com/foxsoccer/...en-euro-2012-festivities-warsaw-poland-061212

Once again, MY INITIAL POINT was that you - as a European - cannot make assumptions about American basketball fans reacting the same way as fans with which you are more familiar. You asked for me to cite examples and I did so. If your only argument is that Egypt and Istanbul are not geographically "in Europe" I think it's pretty apparent that you're more interested in nitpicking fine points than understanding the basic point I was attempting to make.

I've tried a couple of times to get out of this discussion. I'm done. You're either intentionally being obtuse or you aren't going to understand where I'm coming from so I see no need to continue.

 

[Dime Dropper]

Whoa ho! Relax. I haven't said you're wrong. I only stated my opinion, just as you stated yours. I have no idea where we're going with the particular argument about soccer, I just stated that you're beliefs aren't in touch with reality nowadays. Poland and Russia are actually the two countries in mainland Europe that haven't caught up with the rest of Europe which is a shame, but it's slowly improving. To say that violence and rioting is a part of soccer fans nowadays is ignorant and disingenuous. Sorry if that hurts, but I take offense to your comment, especially if you're going to continue playing the victim card when I'm being more than civilised to you. I wasn't attempting to be obtuse or start a needless debate. I was pointing out that your idea of the average football fan is outdated. Europe is far, far more culturally diverse than the USA (that is not a good or bad thing, just a fact that people are often unaware of). For this reason I have absolutely no idea how Egyptians/Turks feel about advertising on jerseys. That is why I clarified when you [incorrectly] linked to Egypt etc.. In fact I couldn't tell you how the Spanish/French/Germans feel about it either. Can only give you an idea of how Irish/British generally feel. I wasn't being obtuse at all. I don't see how it's unacceptable of me to respond to your points!

1. If you look at the context of my comment again, you'll see that I was speaking of soccer in general terms, with the "European" tag probably unnecessary but included at the time to differentiate between non-American sports/fans and those here in the US.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I don't know where you got the idea that I think Americans should feel the same way as I do. I was just stating that I don't see the big deal with small advertising if it benefits the franchise, I was not calling for the beheading of anyone that doesn't agree.

Once again, MY INITIAL POINT was that you - as a European - cannot make assumptions about American basketball fans reacting the same way as fans with which you are more familiar. You asked for me to cite examples and I did so. If your only argument is that Egypt and Istanbul are not geographically "in Europe" I think it's pretty apparent that you're more interested in nitpicking fine points than understanding the basic point I was attempting to make.

I don't believe I made any assumptions about Americans or the way they do or should react. It seems your "basic point" was to point out a couple of isolated incidents and deem it as evidence of the average soccer fan being violent. Which, by the way, has absolutely nothing to do with the issue at hand.

I've tried a couple of times to get out of this discussion. I'm done. You're either intentionally being obtuse or you aren't going to understand where I'm coming from so I see no need to continue.

I see where you're coming from with the advertising. No problems there. Just took issue with your views on soccer fans. I am one afterall, as are pretty much everyone I know. It's fine if you don't want to discuss this, I just felt I should dispell the inaccuracies.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Getting back to the topic of jersey sponsorship:

Spoiler

 

[hrdboild]

To say that violence and rioting is a part of soccer fans nowadays is ignorant and disingenuous. Sorry if that hurts, but I take offense to your comment, especially if you're going to continue playing the victim card when I'm being more than civilised to you. I wasn't attempting to be obtuse or start a needless debate. I was pointing out that your idea of the average football fan is outdated.

If anything I would say it's ignorant and/or disingenuous to say that it's not a problem anymore when clearly it is. It doesn't apply to all soccer fans. That's fair. And it's never applied to all soccer fans. Just like Lakers fans flipping police cars and smashing shop windows doesn't mean all NBA fans like to celebrate championships with massive property damage. I don't understood the culture behind soccer riots, but in my experience I'd say the violence in LA is endemic of the culture of LA more than it is of sports fandom. Sometimes people are already looking for excuses to be violent, that's where the real issue is I think. Which is probably what you're saying as well, just with more inflammatory language.

Stern has been consistent in looking at overseas sports leagues for inspiration in expanding the market share of the NBA so I suppose it's not surprising this issue is coming up. They already tried it in the WNBA where for many clubs the additional sponsorship money was needed just to break even. But I think most american sports fans think that advertisements on the team uniforms cheapens the whole experience, and it's going to be hard to sell the idea to the average fan. Personally I wouldn't even feel comfortable letting my kids where a jersey with an ad sewn onto it. I suppose that makes me old fashioned to some people but I think it just means that I support a value system which says omnipresent advertising is a negative cultural influence which I have no interest in supporting. There's no doubt in my mind though that it's going to happen -- it's just a matter of when.

 

[fiction916]

as pointed out on ESPN, soccer does not have commercial breaks, whereas NBA basketball even has timeouts for the sole purpose to cut to more advertizing.

the NBA is a completely corporatized product as it is, but ads on jerseys I think treads on perhaps the only space left that fans and cities can claim as their own. it's nice seeing that big, proud SACRAMENTO inscribed across a purple chest.

all that being said, if ads on jerseys provide a revenue stream that makes small market clubs, like the Kings, financially viable, I'll have to say that the ends justify the means in this case.

 

[Trueblood]

as pointed out on ESPN, soccer does not have commercial breaks, whereas NBA basketball even has timeouts for the sole purpose to cut to more advertizing.

the NBA is a completely corporatized product as it is, but ads on jerseys I think treads on perhaps the only space left that fans and cities can claim as their own. it's nice seeing that big, proud SACRAMENTO inscribed across a purple chest.

all that being said, if ads on jerseys provide a revenue stream that makes small market clubs, like the Kings, financially viable, I'll have to say that the ends justify the means in this case.

Well said.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I forgot this thread existed, but think it needs to be pointed out that at least in Egypt, the football riot had nothing to do with football, it was purely political and a representation of what is going on there politically. This is common in other areas as well because the smaller size of European countries teams are less regional than they may represent a select neighborhood or ethnic group inside a city.

The one thing that is interesting, as an American soccer fan, is that we do see the kit sponsors in MLS as a way of legitimizing the league. Partially because clubs all over the world have kit sponsors, but also because it means that American businesses are taking notice. I do not think NBA/NFL/MLB need any more corporate sponsorship than they already have. By the same token we're talking a small patch vs. the entire front of a kit. Much ado about nothing. Though it might be nice if it cheapened the ticket prices by a few dollars rather than just inflated already inflated salaries.