Jason Thompson needs to go!!
- Thread starter Tha Kali Way
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What I'm more concerned about is the possible effect on the chemistry of the team if JT and Greene don't step it up. Say PW continues to barely play them for the rest of the season, to Donte and JT it'll be like being pushed from being the starters of the future to the end of the bench. Donte and JT are good friends off the court, a little bit but less so with Tyreke as well based on what we see on youtube and twitter and all. The two of them getting less minutes together could possibly end up in a co-ordinated rebellion of sorts.
Of course I don't think this will happen for two reasons, namely that they will get their act together and also that they're great team guys. But it's something one has to possibly wonder about.
Of course I don't think this will happen for two reasons, namely that they will get their act together and also that they're great team guys. But it's something one has to possibly wonder about.
I thought JT was effective against Cleveland. He played a little more under control. JT just tries to hard to make something happen. He has to much heart and hustle and needs to dial back a little bit at times. But all in all heart and hustle is what you want. JT just needs to figure control it. I am definatley not on the he has to go bandwagon. That is crazy talk.
I think your mixing apples with oranges here. Tetsujin never said Dalembert shouldn't play, he said he wasn't ready to play a lot of minutes because of recovering from an injury. Thats different than saying he shouldn't play because he's not talented enough. Having had a couple of bad knees in my time, I can attest that it has nothing to do with soft mentality. It has to do with your fricking knee having a mind of its own, and not co-operating.
First off, the premise of this thread is a little ridiculous. This team is very young with several new players that wern't here last year. For the most part everyone is trying to find out just what their part on the team is. And obviously its going to take a while for the shakedown cruise to end. Greene is a prime example. He was handed the starting job and promptly lost it. One could argue that he didn't have a fair shot, but one can also argue that Casspi has outplayed him. I'm not sure is the dust has settled on that position just yet.
I think JT falls into the position of being a floater right now. By that, he's a center one time out and a PF the next time out. For those interested, JT played guard his first two years in college, and PF/Center his last two year when he grew something like 7 inches in one offseason. I'm not going to continue to make excuses for him. This is his third year, and he needs to become consistent in some fashion to be dependable. Since I spent 14 hours on a bus last night traveling back home, I didn't see the game. But from looking at the box score, it appeared JT played fine. 8 points, and 5 boards in 12 minutes on 3 of 7 shooting is nothing to ***** about. I don't agree that it takes 4 or 5 years for a big to develop. While its possible to get the occasional late bloomer, on average most bigs start to show who they are in their third year. However, 3 games does not a third year make.
At the end of last year I felt like a light went on in JT's head. He started to let the game come to him, instead of trying to force things. So I'm hopefull that after a few games under his belt, he'll settle down become the player we all hoped he would be. Or at least something close to it. That doesn't mean I wouldn't be open to trading him for the right player. Which is an entirely different thing from just getting rid of him.
I think JT falls into the position of being a floater right now. By that, he's a center one time out and a PF the next time out. For those interested, JT played guard his first two years in college, and PF/Center his last two year when he grew something like 7 inches in one offseason. I'm not going to continue to make excuses for him. This is his third year, and he needs to become consistent in some fashion to be dependable. Since I spent 14 hours on a bus last night traveling back home, I didn't see the game. But from looking at the box score, it appeared JT played fine. 8 points, and 5 boards in 12 minutes on 3 of 7 shooting is nothing to ***** about. I don't agree that it takes 4 or 5 years for a big to develop. While its possible to get the occasional late bloomer, on average most bigs start to show who they are in their third year. However, 3 games does not a third year make.
At the end of last year I felt like a light went on in JT's head. He started to let the game come to him, instead of trying to force things. So I'm hopefull that after a few games under his belt, he'll settle down become the player we all hoped he would be. Or at least something close to it. That doesn't mean I wouldn't be open to trading him for the right player. Which is an entirely different thing from just getting rid of him.
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No. bringing a player back from injury early has nothing to do with toughness. We're talking about physical limitations, and time required to recover from injury. Playing Dally more minutes before he's fit would be stupid, not make Westphal any tougher.
I really don't see what you're getting at. You're really not making any sense. Dally got injured, came back a few weeks early, and you're mad Westphal doesn't put him out there longer than his body can take, without letting Dally get his fitness back? Makes zero sense. Injuires don't disappear simply because you would like them to. And Westphal telling someone else to play more minutes then their body will allow while recovering from an injury wouldn't make him any tougher. They're not even related.
I really don't see what you're getting at. You're really not making any sense. Dally got injured, came back a few weeks early, and you're mad Westphal doesn't put him out there longer than his body can take, without letting Dally get his fitness back? Makes zero sense. Injuires don't disappear simply because you would like them to. And Westphal telling someone else to play more minutes then their body will allow while recovering from an injury wouldn't make him any tougher. They're not even related.
I'll admit that JT had a couple OK-to-good moves against the Cavs, but IMO he's already become superfluous on the Kings:
Darnell Jackson is doing everything that JT should have been doing for this team, + more.
I just don't see any reason to be playing a guy who STILL baby-pushes a shooter in the back when they're in the middle of a layup.
There's NO WAY that affects their shot, and it at best gives them a free FT and at worst costs you the rebound (if they miss).
JT's line last night was misleading, since 1 of the rebounds he got from his own miss and the other was mopping up Reke's miss (which ANY of our bigs would do in that position). So he was more like 6 points, 3 rebounds while giving up points on bonehead plays yet again.
Watch Darnell Jackson on the floor and I have no idea how we got him. He's so much better out there than JT, I'd much rather give him JT's minutes than cringe through more opportunities for JT to cost us points.
JT's had PLENTY of opportunities to show us what he has to give.
Let other guys get a chance who are proving what they can do RIGHT NOW (primarily Darnell), not what they MIGHT someday become despite 2+ years of evidence that disproves the promise (JT).
Darnell Jackson is doing everything that JT should have been doing for this team, + more.
I just don't see any reason to be playing a guy who STILL baby-pushes a shooter in the back when they're in the middle of a layup.
There's NO WAY that affects their shot, and it at best gives them a free FT and at worst costs you the rebound (if they miss).
JT's line last night was misleading, since 1 of the rebounds he got from his own miss and the other was mopping up Reke's miss (which ANY of our bigs would do in that position). So he was more like 6 points, 3 rebounds while giving up points on bonehead plays yet again.
Watch Darnell Jackson on the floor and I have no idea how we got him. He's so much better out there than JT, I'd much rather give him JT's minutes than cringe through more opportunities for JT to cost us points.
JT's had PLENTY of opportunities to show us what he has to give.
Let other guys get a chance who are proving what they can do RIGHT NOW (primarily Darnell), not what they MIGHT someday become despite 2+ years of evidence that disproves the promise (JT).
Another mentality that doesn't intrigue me.
My thinking is, go for the gold or don't go at all. I, along with most Kings fans, are sick of the losing and finally see a product on the floor that can win some ball games. Yes, they are years away from contending, but guess what, this team might be relocating so while they're here they better put the pedal to the medal and play for a playoff spot. "Saving" Dalembert might cost us some ball games that in the end, we can not afford to lose. IMO, it is a risk you have to take. I'm tired of mediocre seasons, but if they give the fans their money's worth, I'll be satisfied. What I can't stand is guys sitting out games when they can actually be playing.
My thinking is, go for the gold or don't go at all. I, along with most Kings fans, are sick of the losing and finally see a product on the floor that can win some ball games. Yes, they are years away from contending, but guess what, this team might be relocating so while they're here they better put the pedal to the medal and play for a playoff spot. "Saving" Dalembert might cost us some ball games that in the end, we can not afford to lose. IMO, it is a risk you have to take. I'm tired of mediocre seasons, but if they give the fans their money's worth, I'll be satisfied. What I can't stand is guys sitting out games when they can actually be playing.
Fortunately Westphal doesn't give a tinkers damm what you think. Probably doesn't care what I think either. But since your into what if's. What if Westphal plays Dalembert 30 minutes and he reinjures himself and ends up missing 4 to 6 weeks of the season. Just how does that help the team? And thats not an unlikely secnario. For every one like you, that wants to go for the brass ring right now, and Katy bar the door. There's a thousand more that would want to lynch Westphal for being so stupid as to push Dalembert to the point of reinjuring himself.
As for the Kings being contenders, and it taking years. Well if thats true, and I personally don't think it is, but if it is, then thats even more of a reason to be careful with Dalembert. The Kings have a one year try out with him, so they have to make sure they see enough to make a reasonable judgement at the end of the year. Instant gratification doesn't often work when your trying to build a contending team that you expect to compete for years to come. It takes patience and the absence of knee jerk reactions. Without that approach, you have to be damm lucky, and have a Tim Duncan fall into you lap. It does happen from time to time, but then winning the lottery does as well. How often have you won it?
As for the Kings being contenders, and it taking years. Well if thats true, and I personally don't think it is, but if it is, then thats even more of a reason to be careful with Dalembert. The Kings have a one year try out with him, so they have to make sure they see enough to make a reasonable judgement at the end of the year. Instant gratification doesn't often work when your trying to build a contending team that you expect to compete for years to come. It takes patience and the absence of knee jerk reactions. Without that approach, you have to be damm lucky, and have a Tim Duncan fall into you lap. It does happen from time to time, but then winning the lottery does as well. How often have you won it?
Still holding out hope. What I just don't get about Thompson is the incredible lack of self-awareness he has on the court. I'd really like to know what he is thinking when he is on the court. Or is he thinking? I really wonder how the coaches are trying to improve his game. I'd almost want tell the guy to go at 3/4 speed, dial it down, even loaf a little, but while you're loafing focus on the little stuff that they tell you in practice, like slowing down when you get the ball in the post. Heck, think about taking a nap in the post when you get the ball; maybe then you could relax enough to show some skill rather than just an ungainly spasm of effort.
It was my hope that he finally got it at the end of last season. He played the last 20 or so games very well. I thought perhaps Landry had a positive influence on him with his patience under the basket. I do think its way too early to be rendering decisions on long term expectations. At the moment the team is off to a good start winning 2 out of 3 on the road, and with a good chance of getting a home opening win tomorrow. I think its fair to say that this team is still quite a way from being a fine polished machine. Tyreke still hasn't played the way we know he can. Beno still looks shaky at times. Landry, is starting to look like, well, Landry. Casspi was apparently terrific in his last game. Can he do it consistently night after night. Cousins is still a long way from being as good as he'll be at the end of the season.
One thing I learned from watching him at Kentucky is that he's a fast learner. If you watched him at the beginning of last season, you wouldn't have recognized him at the end of the season. He started slow and sort of felt his way, finding out what he could and could not do. Right now I think he's capable of putting up 15 and 8 or 9 every night by accident. By the end of the season he'll be a 20 and 10 to 12 guy by design. He'll figure out the defensive end of it. He may never be a great shotblocker, but he's smart, and he'll figure out where a player likes to set up or shoot from and he'll take that away from him. Larry Bird, who was far from a great athlete, said a good defender is someone that makes the other player unconfortable. Don't allow him to shoot from his spot. If he likes to go to his right, make him go to his left.
My point is, that every player on the team is still finding himself, and how he fits on the team. So I think its a little early to pick on any one player just yet.
One thing I learned from watching him at Kentucky is that he's a fast learner. If you watched him at the beginning of last season, you wouldn't have recognized him at the end of the season. He started slow and sort of felt his way, finding out what he could and could not do. Right now I think he's capable of putting up 15 and 8 or 9 every night by accident. By the end of the season he'll be a 20 and 10 to 12 guy by design. He'll figure out the defensive end of it. He may never be a great shotblocker, but he's smart, and he'll figure out where a player likes to set up or shoot from and he'll take that away from him. Larry Bird, who was far from a great athlete, said a good defender is someone that makes the other player unconfortable. Don't allow him to shoot from his spot. If he likes to go to his right, make him go to his left.
My point is, that every player on the team is still finding himself, and how he fits on the team. So I think its a little early to pick on any one player just yet.
Not saving Dalembert may cost use some games in the end, too. I'd rather lighten the load at the start than have him out for the last 30 games of the year. Knees are tricky things - the older I get, the more I understand them, and I haven't logged the miles that NBA professionals have. At this point, I'll defer to the medical staff.
This is brilliant thinking. Let's make Dalembert play more minutes than he is ready to play so the Kings "might" get a couple extra wins early in the season. Of course, when he re-injures his groin and misses a month or 2 of the season we will all think those extra wins or more than worth it. There are many injuries that players can play through without worrying about it getting worse. A groin strain is definitely NOT one of them. It is the type of injury that can plague a player for the whole season if you allow it to do so. And when talking about a player who relies on his athleticism and ability to change directions quickly (something hard to do with a hurt groin), it is even more important to take it slow.
Agree with this point. A lot is going on. The thing that puts us in the games so far is the team. We've got good parts, maybe not great. If they were all great it would be easy. The coaches are working on making a good team and so far so good. Lots of challenges ahead, like next week, etc., etc. Don't judge too early or too harshly.
I don't think Westphal has turned the right key yet with JT. Thompson needs to seriously relax in the post. PLAY. Not strain. Excessive effort creates strain, which is exactly why he misses 2 footers. I swear I'd give him the ball in the post and demand that he "play" like the Harlem Globetrotters for a quarter. Fake a pass under his legs, wrap the ball around his waist, fake another over a defender's head, do a piroquet, and then for the finale just try and back-handed over the back toss to the basket. The guy needs to play; not work; play. Wooden used to talk about wanting to win soo badly that inevitably you don't get what you want. Thompson is a perfect example.
Regarding Cousins, I'm happy with everything he's done so far. I would have liked for him to come into camp in better shape, but he get's a pass because he's a rookie. Not next year though...And if Westphal doesn't get ALL these guys to come into camp next year in outstanding shape, I'll be out for his head. It's inexcusable what happened this year.
Regarding Cousins, I'm happy with everything he's done so far. I would have liked for him to come into camp in better shape, but he get's a pass because he's a rookie. Not next year though...And if Westphal doesn't get ALL these guys to come into camp next year in outstanding shape, I'll be out for his head. It's inexcusable what happened this year.
I agree that he has the talent to be a good starting center, and I have been one of his biggest supporters. However, he better figure it out soon or he might find himself playing over in Europe. Philly pretty much handed him the starting center position and he has stunk up the court so far. He is averaging 3pt/3rbs a game while shooting under 30% from the field. At least he is averaging 1 block a game.
While many people wouldn't listen to me on this, I know Philly, and Hawes could nto have picked a WORSE place to end up. Nor a worse coach. The coach is a noted screamer who everybody hates within three years. The fans are tough to the point of being nasty. They will NOT tolerate softness, or perceived softness, of every kind. Iverson becoming a folk hero there had everything to do with their tough in your face attitude. And then you have Spencer, Flutter, a guy struggling with physicality and aggressiveness. This is going to be a crucible. Either he he is going to be transformed, hardened, forged into something far tougher than we have ever seen him be. Or they are going to break him, chew him up and spit him out into little pieces. There may be tears involved. They will absolutely loathe him, and they'll boo you if they like you. If they don't...
If that happens, I don't know what happens to Spencer's career. I have limited sympathy there. Its his own fault. He has all the talent needed to be a good center for a long time. But he himself is holding himself back.
If that happens, I don't know what happens to Spencer's career. I have limited sympathy there. Its his own fault. He has all the talent needed to be a good center for a long time. But he himself is holding himself back.
I agree that Philly is the worst place that Hawes could have ended up. I wouldn't be surprised if he has already been booed off the court. Not having watched any of their games so far, I couldn't tell you. You are right though, they expect their players to play hard for every second they ar on the court and will let them hear about it when they slack off (even when having a good game).
I couldn't agree more. When I heard it was Philly he was going to, I thought, my god, their sending him to hell. Philly is the only town that would boo Jesus Christ if he was playing center field and misplayed a ball. They call it the city of brotherly love. They must have been thinking of Cain and Abel.