iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
if Monte signs Kuzma, why are we to believe your assessment over his?
Jake Fisher article: Sabonis extension expected to be around 4years/120 million
- Thread starter Tetsujin
- Start date
if Monte signs Kuzma, why are we to believe your assessment over his?
captain bill
All-Star
Who's Jake Fisher? Has he ever broken anything?
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
I asked the same thing on draft night and about 5 minutes later one of his leaks proved true.
So, id frankly find swallowing HB loss for Kuzma a tough pill to swallow. HB is a better shooter, better Iso player and better defender not to mention the heart of this team's locker room. Kuz is an above average player, no doubt, but he can be a distraction, doesnt exactly scream committed to the team and isnt significantly better than HB as $10M per year. If you are going to lose your locker room leader, who you trotted out in front of the media to answer for the team blunders after every loss for the last 5 years, it should be to have a needle moving player, or multiple player who together could move the bar.
If we move on for HB id like if we packaged him in a S/T for a big time player so we have more to offer than cap relief to a team who holds the rights to said player. Like sending him and 2 FRP to Clippers for Paul George (at $20M per he's a considerable savings over PG13 and is far more available). In SAC PG13 has less weight to carry and hopefully could stay more healthy as a result. With him the Kings are legit contenders.
If we move on for HB id like if we packaged him in a S/T for a big time player so we have more to offer than cap relief to a team who holds the rights to said player. Like sending him and 2 FRP to Clippers for Paul George (at $20M per he's a considerable savings over PG13 and is far more available). In SAC PG13 has less weight to carry and hopefully could stay more healthy as a result. With him the Kings are legit contenders.
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
And by the way I don’t always agree with Monte. If it was up to me I would have taken Miller at #24, signed HB to a 3 year deal and gave Keegan the keys to the second/third scorer role. I would have seen how that played out along with another year in Browns system and minor additions. Then if it didn’t work out I’d trade Barnes and Holmes combined salary (32 mil) plus draft capital for a splash either at the deadline or the offseason. Monte said himself he won’t bat 1000 but he has a good enough track record for me to trust his plan.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
The thing Kuzma brings is more athletic ability and this team can most certainly use that. As for the other stuff, I agree for the most part, but he's not a complete negative, he's just not truly great at any one thing. In comparison to Barnes, I do think the Kings need a more aggressive scoring personality on the roster so in that way Kuzma could be a much needed addition as well. I've brought up some of the comparison numbers between he and Grant and in looking at a bunch of the actual numbers, yes, I would pick Grant as well.
As for Holmes, I specifically said WORST VALUE contract. I never said Holmes was the worst contract. I agree he isn't. Clearly he isn't because he was traded. Overpaid backup C's are the worst value in the league if they can only play that position and I was trying to be as clear as possible that I was relating it specifically to him being a backup C. I did so multiple times. Holmes was the 17th highest paid C at one point, and the only backup paid that much. If you still don't understand my point, then there's no need for further discussion on it. When you extract words from sentences it's very easy to miss points. It's also easy when you take one individual sentence from a post and focus on that while ignoring the explanation that followed it.
Last edited:
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
That's assuming you can move them then though. If you are iffy on a player, simply don't sign them. Imagine if Monte signed Bogdan back? Letting him go was the wise move because his value in the role he was in would have sunk him to a Holmes level potentially. Monte obviously set his cap up for a window and that window is now. If the team failed he had an out. If it did well, he had options. This is what you do when you have some intent to your build which is something we haven't seen from a Kings GM in, what is it? 16 years? hahaha. Vlade kind of did but he whiffed on plan B's. He's the perfect example of why when you miss out on option A you don't try to quantity your way back to level ground. A million role players don't equal a star if you need stars.
Yeah, he's got to nail the FA cap. He very easily could have just made the pick, traded up for Colby, brought in Vezenkov, keep Lyles and grab a MLE type talent and/or keep HB and call it an off-season. Take one more season to evaluate the roster and go from there.
But moving a FRP for cap very much indicates he's making the push now. He thinks there's someone in this FA class that can put the Kings over the top, otherwise why would you bet your FRP on it?
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
Barnes will always have value even if he is undervalued here. 15 points a game with great efficiency, durable, versatile and willing to play any role will be in demand. My only hang up is the length of the deal. A 4 year deal becomes harder to move.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
It depends though. A much younger Barnes got to the Kings via trade but was that value? He does have value but trade value if the money is high, and the role is diminished varies greatly.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Exactly and when the player you drafted and traded on the surface did appear to fill some of your basic needs you better prove your plan out. If the Kings stagnate next year, the defense is still crap, the Kings need defense at the F spot still, and O-Max is the next Finney-Smith for an improved Mavs Monte's gonna have to explain that lol.
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
for me his value in a trade at that point would be in a three team deal. Some contender takes on HB while the rebuilding team with the player we want gets picks and young assets like a Miller for example.
ParniValjak
All-Star
$120m for Sabonis seems some $60m less than the max for the duration of the contract. I will believe it when I see it.
On Kuzma - he is arguably a better player than HB was at the same age. Like HB, his efficiency should improve when he is no longer #1 or #2 option on the team.
Its about acquiring an asset for the cap space. An asset that is the same age group as your stars. In the current NBA climate, $25m per season is not stupidly ridiculous money for a 27 year old combo forward that averages 21/7/4 on the season.
On Kuzma - he is arguably a better player than HB was at the same age. Like HB, his efficiency should improve when he is no longer #1 or #2 option on the team.
Its about acquiring an asset for the cap space. An asset that is the same age group as your stars. In the current NBA climate, $25m per season is not stupidly ridiculous money for a 27 year old combo forward that averages 21/7/4 on the season.
Pimpis Zajoba
G-League
4/120?....really....guys plz don't be so gullible...Domas gets 22 next season so you bump that to 30 140% of that is 4/168 is more realistic....
Yeah, what really bothered me on draft night is I just hate the process of giving away the FRP for no guaranteed value. Just not good business giving up that rookie scale that could potentially be a foundational player. If we look back at this range (We'll go 20-35), the last 6 years:
2022-
Braun
Kessler
Nembhard
Jaylin Williams
2021-
Grimes
Bones?
Cam Thomas
Santi Aldama
Herb Jones
Jermiah Robinson-Earl
2020-
Achiuwa
Maxey
Quickley
Pritchard
Jaden McDaniels
Bane
Xavier Tillman
2019
Thybulle
Brandon Clarke
Grant Williams
Jordan Poole
Keldon Johnson
Kevin Porter Jr
Nic Claxton
2018
Okogie
Grayson Allen
Anfernee Simons
Mo Wagner
Landry Shamet
Robert Williams
Jevon Carter
Jalen Brunson
Mitch Rob (pick 36)
Gary Trent (pick 37)
2017
Jarrett Allen
OG Anunoby
Kyle Kuzma
Derrick White
Josh Hart
Not in the parameters, but this draft had some huge late steals:
Thomas Bryant pick 42
Isaiah Hartenstein pick 43
Dillon brooks pick 45
Monte Morris pick 51
Long story short, picks in this 20-35/40 range are very valuable and give a great chance to find an awesome player. So whatever FA bet you're making, it's really got to give this team a major boost the next 2-3 years.
LPKingsFan
All-Star
Zach Lowe in his latest pod laid out the scenario where Sabonis gets a raise of 8 million for 23-24 and an extension based on that $30 million figure, and the Kings still have a little over $20 million to sign a free agent (in addition to Lyles and Sasha). Is that enough for Sabonis? Is that enough room for a forward upgrade?
That's fine to pick out the players who have done well but if you look at Captain's thread from before the draft, 37% of players picked between 20-30 make it to 10,000 minutes in their career. This site (link) says the same, less than half of non lottery first round picks are in the league 5-10 years after being drafted.
I don't disagree with the premise of what you have said, and think I was equally dissatisfied with the draft day trade, but think it's better to say 'picks in the 20-35 range CAN be very valuable but are often not'. You could also say 'Having cap room may be of value but...'.
That $22M number Lowe used is base salary + expected bonuses, but I'm pretty sure that the extension size is calculated on base salary, which is $19.6M. I noted in the other thread that we need to give Sabonis about a $12.5M raise to get to the point where we can give him his "max" extension. I suppose it's possible that he would accept something a bit south of the "max" on that, so we might not need to go the whole $12.5M. Since we can clear cap space in the $32-33M range while keeping Lyles' cap hold, that would leave us with kind of smack-dab on $20M to sign a free agent. Whether that is enough for some of the FAs we are looking at would seem to be an open question.
Pimpis Zajoba
G-League
I am sure Domas is fine to play out his contract and then sign the max....but if Kings want to lock him up they will have to pay to do it....it's not Domas who is negotiating but his agent...the moving of the pick for cap means that deal is already done (Domas or FA) or most likely both...Sasha will get room exception and we will know the rest in the first 15min of 6PM Eastern on Friday
NewArena
All-Star
He can't. I wouldn't want the risk
HndsmCelt
Hall of Famer
I demand a video!
I dont think anyone here said it was happening, i think we all are reacting to an article by a person who knows likely less than we do about the Kings plans who said 4/$120M and said if he was willing to do it, then do it already, where do we sign!?!
Those who are hyperventilating thinking of Kuzma signing with Sacramento should read this article with some analytics breakdown. I’m expecting Kuzma to be signed by Sacramento tbh.
ParniValjak
All-Star
I recall there being probably as much of an outcry when we got HB. Fact is that HB has his best years in Sacramento.
I expect similar sort of thing with Kuzma. Efficiency will go up simply because he will get more open looks in our offense. He would give us more length and rebounding than we currently have. Better passer and creator. Defense is pretty much even but in a team system he could do his bit.
I don't see how Kuzma is not an upgrade (talent and productivity wise) on HB. Not to mention that he is closer aligned to our core in terms of age. Forget about the passion or personality. Forget about the inefficiency on Wizards given that he was asked to do more that what he is really capable of (similar to HB before coming to Sacramento).
I expect the scoring average to drop but efficiency and shooting percentages to rise.
