Is this the worst Petrie miscalculation that you've ever personally witnessed?
- Thread starter Anthony1
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The difference in pay is $560k, if it's the same as last year. John Salmons will collect $270k more than Beno this year, and has another $7.58M due to him the next year.
If management really saddled us with John Salmons to save $290k this year (and pay dearly the next), then may the basketball gods have mercy on us.
If management really saddled us with John Salmons to save $290k this year (and pay dearly the next), then may the basketball gods have mercy on us.
And I am sure Owens number’s would have been higher had he not been playing 4th fiddle to Webber, Mullin and Sprewell. 2nd, I never misrepresented your position. Your exact words were “Stats are a direct, objective reflection of what a player does on the floor. If AK were that much better than Salmons, his numbers would reflect that.” Well Pippen was much better than Owens, but their stats did not reflect that. I am curious; do you believe Scottie Pippen's intangibles were baloney?
People on this board constantly make up a completely unrealistic dream scenario and then feed off of each other until we all begin to think it's a possibility. Then when it doesn't happen there is a crazy uproar as if Petrie just flushed the franchise. Like when we all decided that we were going to get KG which of course was not going to happen. Then when a REALISTIC move happens people start cracking open the cyanide pills. We should really be excited about getting a high-potential new rookie, and not talking about giving up on the team because we didn't get Tony Parker like I've seen so much of. This whole board needs a Xanax.
Oh no you didnt !!!
That's an easy one to prove because MJ took a year off. Pippens minutes stayed the same. He took about 1.5 more shots a game, he had 1 more rebound a game, assists went down .7, his ppg went up3.4 over the previous year, but only 1 ppg more than the year before.
So really, MJ had little effect on Pippens stats. Also, pippens fouls per game were up .5.
That's an easy one to prove because MJ took a year off. Pippens minutes stayed the same. He took about 1.5 more shots a game, he had 1 more rebound a game, assists went down .7, his ppg went up3.4 over the previous year, but only 1 ppg more than the year before.
So really, MJ had little effect on Pippens stats. Also, pippens fouls per game were up .5.
Can't help but agree with you. However, it's been made clear to me over the last two years that that is the nature and the attraction for many on this board and many fans. Not my cup of tea. I do read a lot of it with interest but refuse to give over to anyone but Petrie. You're right though, one of the natural outcomes of the process is unnecessary disappointment and unwarranted criticism.
I like how you conveniantly picked seasons when their stats were comparable to make your point. Why not compare Billy's 13 6 and 3 5th season to Pippen's 21 7 and 7 5th season? I think I know why, because it wouldn't have done much to prove the notion that Pippen was better despite having similar stats because by the time Pippen was playing his best, their stats weren't similar.
What did you have to run back and pull up their career statistics so you would actually sound like you know what you are talking about? Was wondering why it took you so long to respond, seeing as how you usually churn out a response in a couple seconds. What does it matter what seasons were used? You took one season of statistics to back up your assertion that AK-47 and Salmon's are the same and I did the same for Pippen and Owens, using each players 3rd year in the league as my point of reference. You were the one that made it clear that stats are what players are measured by, so I am just following your lead. I'll expect one of your patented responses in a few seconds 
Oh and here are Salmons and AK's stats from their 5th season if you want to use various years. My god AK is so much better.
Salmons: 8.5 PPG, 3.2 APG, 3.3 RPG, 0.3 BPG
AK: 15.3 PPG, 3.2 APG, 8.0 RPG 3.3 BPG
Oh and here are Salmons and AK's stats from their 5th season if you want to use various years. My god AK is so much better.
Salmons: 8.5 PPG, 3.2 APG, 3.3 RPG, 0.3 BPG
AK: 15.3 PPG, 3.2 APG, 8.0 RPG 3.3 BPG
Why are you resorting to red herrings and ad hominem?
It matters because different players develop at different rates and have different ceilings, obviously.
Well you’re right there, my cherry picking seasons was just as unfair as yours. Well, not quite because I think we can agree that there’s a bigger gap between Pippen and Ownes than there is between ak47 and Salmons.
AK was way better at the point in their careers.
It matters because different players develop at different rates and have different ceilings, obviously.
Well you’re right there, my cherry picking seasons was just as unfair as yours. Well, not quite because I think we can agree that there’s a bigger gap between Pippen and Ownes than there is between ak47 and Salmons.
AK was way better at the point in their careers.
Why are you resorting to red herrings and ad hominem?
Please get some new material. If I have to listen to you say red herrings, ad hominem's or strawman one more time I am going to put a bullet in my head
It matters because different players develop at different rates and have different ceilings, obviously.
No argument here, was just using The Rookie Player Evaluation System: Based on Stats.
Well you’re right there, my cherry picking seasons was just as unfair as yours. Well, not quite because I think we can agree that there’s a bigger gap between Pippen and Ownes than there is between ak47 and Salmons.
Wait, there was a big gap between Pippen and Owen? The stats must have lied to me!
AK was way better at the point in their careers.
Please get some new material. If I have to listen to you say red herrings, ad hominem's or strawman one more time I am going to put a bullet in my head
It matters because different players develop at different rates and have different ceilings, obviously.
No argument here, was just using The Rookie Player Evaluation System: Based on Stats.
Well you’re right there, my cherry picking seasons was just as unfair as yours. Well, not quite because I think we can agree that there’s a bigger gap between Pippen and Ownes than there is between ak47 and Salmons.
Wait, there was a big gap between Pippen and Owen? The stats must have lied to me!
AK was way better at the point in their careers.
If I’m being predictable it’s only because you’re predictable yourself. If you don’t want to hear me talking about red herrings, ad hominem's or strawmen, then stop using them and stick to relevant facts and arguments. I mean come on, using the fact that I had to look something up as an argument against me was just lame.
There wasn’t as big a gap as a year three player a there was by year five. I’d say Pippen just had a higher ceiling and by year five, that showed in the stats.
Yes he was. I even admit that he’s better I’m just saying that the gap isn’t as big as was five years ago.
There wasn’t as big a gap as a year three player a there was by year five. I’d say Pippen just had a higher ceiling and by year five, that showed in the stats.
Yes he was. I even admit that he’s better I’m just saying that the gap isn’t as big as was five years ago.
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Don't forget that Kirilenko can also play at the PF position if needed. So as well as improving the SF position, he would also add some depth to the PF position. By the same token, Salmons can play the SG position. If we do resign Dalembert, we'd have the possibility of going very big and putting Cousins, Dalembert, Kirilenko, Salmons and Evans on the floor at the same time. Perhaps not the greatest offensive team, but a team that could certainly defend a lead and rebound. I'm not advocating this as a starting lineup. Just wanted to be clear to the critics.
If I’m being predictable it’s only because you’re predictable yourself. If you don’t want to hear me talking about red herrings, ad hominem's or strawmen, then stop using them and stick to facts. I mean come on, using the fact that I had to look something up as an argument against me was just lame.
You use them when talking with EVERYONE. This is actually the first time i have had the privilege of it being used towards me, so thank you. It comes off as though that is the only material you have and that EVERYONE is twisting your words. Wasn't an argument against you, was just unaccustomed to not getting a response within a few seconds and I figured you were researching.
There wasn’t as big a gap as year three player a there was by year five. I’d say Pippen just had a higher ceiling and by year five, that showed in the stats.
I can only go by what the stats show me.
Yes he was. I even admit that he’s better I’m just saying that the gap isn’t as big as was five years ago.
No argument here.
You use them when talking with EVERYONE. This is actually the first time i have had the privilege of it being used towards me, so thank you. It comes off as though that is the only material you have and that EVERYONE is twisting your words. Wasn't an argument against you, was just unaccustomed to not getting a response within a few seconds and I figured you were researching
.There wasn’t as big a gap as year three player a there was by year five. I’d say Pippen just had a higher ceiling and by year five, that showed in the stats.
I can only go by what the stats show me.
Yes he was. I even admit that he’s better I’m just saying that the gap isn’t as big as was five years ago.
No argument here.
Only if applicable.
From my perspective, lots of people do twist words in arguments, even if unintentional. It’s not just me I notice it happening to, I see lots of people doing it to lots of other people, too. It seems to be somewhat of an epidemic on the internet.
Maybe I should use your whack quoting skills against you, hehehe.
From my perspective, lots of people do twist words in arguments, even if unintentional. It’s not just me I notice it happening to, I see lots of people doing it to lots of other people, too. It seems to be somewhat of an epidemic on the internet.
Maybe I should use your whack quoting skills against you, hehehe.
Just about every mock draft had us taking Rubio if he was there. All the national pundits had us lusting after Rubio. The only desenting note I can remember came from Jerry Reynolds who had some very unfavorable things to say about Rubio, and as a result he was blasted by many on this fourm. Have you forgotten the outcry on this fourm because the Kings passed on Rubio.
But that aside, no one, and I mean no one knows what Petrie is going to do but perhaps a select few inside his circle. All they said about Knight, was that they like him. They said the same thing about Fredette and Walker. They also said the same thing about Burks. The more I looked at what they were saying, and other little things that happened, I became convinced that they were either going to take Fredette or Walker. Especially when I heard Reynolds say, when asked about some team being upset with Knight for not working out against other players, that the Kings were also disappointed.
I don't think they ever intended to take Knight, and that Fredette was their guy all along. Now we'll see if they were right.
But that aside, no one, and I mean no one knows what Petrie is going to do but perhaps a select few inside his circle. All they said about Knight, was that they like him. They said the same thing about Fredette and Walker. They also said the same thing about Burks. The more I looked at what they were saying, and other little things that happened, I became convinced that they were either going to take Fredette or Walker. Especially when I heard Reynolds say, when asked about some team being upset with Knight for not working out against other players, that the Kings were also disappointed.
I don't think they ever intended to take Knight, and that Fredette was their guy all along. Now we'll see if they were right.
That is def true.
You should, they suck.
Well this was certainly our most cordial interaction to date. Good day.
You should, they suck.
Well this was certainly our most cordial interaction to date
. Good day.
See, the funny thing is, we, as fans expect there to be contingency plans like that, but I think in this particular deal, with so many moving parts, and dealing with two teams, I don't think Charlotte and Milwaukee would have been interested in doing the deal if they had to deal with a contingency plan, so it could have been a scenario in which Petrie could have asked for something like that, but then there would also have been a good chance where one or both of the other teams would have balked on it, because then you'd have too many players publicly known to have been traded. How does Salmons return to Milwaukee if we get Brandon Knight, after it was reported on ESPN that he was going to Sacramento. What about Stephen Jackson? How are these players going to return to their teams, after it was so well known publicly? That's why I don't think most teams would agree to such contingencies, because the deals are too complicated, and each side needs to know if it's really going to happen. They can't deal with a last minute change that negates the whole thing.
But... I think Petrie needs to have such a contingency plan, and also needs to make sure the deal is totally secret until after the No.7 selection is made. Why did this have to leak so early? That was a huge mistake. Obviously, there wasn't any contingency plan, because otherwise it would't have leaked early. Petrie either didn't demand a contingency plan, or one of the other two teams balked about any contingency plan. Either way it was a mistake, because if one of the teams balked on it, then Petrie should have just backed out of the deal altogether.
If only we stayed in our shoes, and didn't try to get so cute...
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