Let's talk about Rajon Rondo
- Thread starter hrdboild
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beb0p
Starter
I agree with everything except the part about Rondo not fitting Karl's system. If George Karl had success in Denver with Ty Lawson, I don't see why he can't have success with Rondo. Lawson is a better shooter, but he's also a ball-pounder (note that I don't see that as a negative for a PG) Karl also took a Gary Payton led Seattle team to the Finals and Payton was a non-shooter. People are going to argue that this is a different era, which is true to some extent, but I don't think the game is all that different from the mid 90s really. Right now offense and three point shooting are en vogue, but it goes in cycles. Defense will come back, I'm sure of it. It's too fundamental to the game to be marginalized for long. Somebody is going to figure out how to exploit an over-eager offense and then everyone else will rush to catch up to them. One thing about George Karl that makes me optimistic, he's had success everywhere he's gone with very different types of players. He's adaptable. He's a coach who could find a way to make it work.
And I'm glad you're coming around on Myles Turner.
I have to do a double-take because you called Payton a non-shooter and nothing could be further from the truth. While not Mark Price, Payton could hit the mid range shot with ease, something that Rondo struggled to do. They are not the same.
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beb0p
Starter
Exactly what I thought.
hrdboild, I like some of your posts and I have nothing against you, but you accusing someone of "evidence be damned" is like a frog calling other animals ugly.
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Larry David
Starter
Hrdboild,
The shark you jumped on this thread got out of the tank, got his own motorcycle, and jumped another shark in a different tank.
The shark you jumped on this thread got out of the tank, got his own motorcycle, and jumped another shark in a different tank.
It's interesting to me that I read post after post of people commenting about what a cancer Rajon Rondo is (most of them offering no proof, just stating it as fact) and then I posted one article (from ESPN, so it's not like I pulled it out of the backwoods) which questions that viewpoint and suddenly you don't want to talk about it. Suddenly this thread has run it's course and there's nothing left to say. I showed you quotes from Doc Rivers, Brad Stevens, Ray Allen, Paul Pierce, Kevin Garnett, Avery Bradley, and Keyoon Dooling that directly contradict this prevailing "Rondo is a team cancer" theory and you don't even want to comment on that? That's entirely up to you. If you're done talking about Rondo, that's fine. But every time somebody tells me Rondo is a horrible teammate I'm going to keep bringing these quotes up because that at at least proves that this prevailing theory is in dispute.
I completely understand people not wanting us to get Rondo because they don't like the way he plays, they don't think he can gel with Cousins or George Karl, or they think his injury has reduced him to an ineffective player and he's unlikely to recover. It really bothers me that a few people (and if you trace all of this back, it's really just a few people making these claims) have taken it upon themselves to completely smear Rondo's reputation because he's not a boring athlete who smiles for the cameras and makes PC statements about playing the right way. His teammates love him, surely that tells you something. And I'll keep responding as long as there's something to respond to. If not, I've said everything I have to say already.
And I happen to like frogs.
I completely understand people not wanting us to get Rondo because they don't like the way he plays, they don't think he can gel with Cousins or George Karl, or they think his injury has reduced him to an ineffective player and he's unlikely to recover. It really bothers me that a few people (and if you trace all of this back, it's really just a few people making these claims) have taken it upon themselves to completely smear Rondo's reputation because he's not a boring athlete who smiles for the cameras and makes PC statements about playing the right way. His teammates love him, surely that tells you something. And I'll keep responding as long as there's something to respond to. If not, I've said everything I have to say already.
And I happen to like frogs.
SwishKing
G-League
I had to do a double-take when you said Payton could hit the mid-range shot with ease. The guy barely made half his FTs. He was one of the worst shooters in the NBA this season. Payton still has a lot of room to grow. Him and Rondo are very similar players (That was even the go-to comparison for him when the draft rolled around last year).
That said, I think Rondo has passed his prime. I wouldn't pretend to know what goes on in the locker room, but I still wouldn't offer Rondo a long-term contract based on his recent performances.
Wrong payton
SwishKing
G-League
Derp. I dumb.
IfAt1st
Starter
Call me crazy, but I trust Demarcus Cousins to know if a player would be a good match for him on the court and in the locker room.
If he tells Simmons that Rondo is the best PG in the NBA, and that they'd both get along, I trust his perspective on that more than blogs and sports"writers".
(BTW - this demonization of Rondo and groupthink against him is eerily similar to what happens against Cuz.
Interesting.)
KingsFans can guarantee that IF this FO acquired Rondo, it would be solely because Cousins had been consulted, and Rondo and Cousins had spoken and wanted to give it a try together.
That would be exciting to me.
If he tells Simmons that Rondo is the best PG in the NBA, and that they'd both get along, I trust his perspective on that more than blogs and sports"writers".
(BTW - this demonization of Rondo and groupthink against him is eerily similar to what happens against Cuz.
Interesting.)
KingsFans can guarantee that IF this FO acquired Rondo, it would be solely because Cousins had been consulted, and Rondo and Cousins had spoken and wanted to give it a try together.
That would be exciting to me.
LOL at groupthink!
Mavs finally being competitive after getting rid of Rondo vs Kings falling flat on their faces, whenever DMC is on the bench...yeah it looks the same.
Since acquiring Rondo Mavs were +0.037 PPP without him and -0.084 with him on the floor, including massive dropoff offensively. And Mavs are far less ball-dominant team. That was actually the main appeal of Rondo to Mavs - get improvement on D (effect turned out to be minimal, even for a team with suspect defense, while Collison's defense for the Kings might have been his most important quality - even with Malone gone, whenever Kings had Darren and Demarcus on the floor during the time, when no one was giving a damn about playing, they were still allowing only 104.3 PPP - no longer NBA-best, but still in competition for top5!!!) and creativity offensively, since shooting is better used in a two-man game rather than isolation. Well, when everyone goes under screen, it kinda defeats the purpose. Before Rondo was still able to combat that with his quickness, which is now gone. Rondo is not signing for less than $8 million, which means, he'd be the only acquisition this summer, and that would be truly terrible.
This year Celtics were the same team with/without him before the trade - slightly better defensively and worse offensively with Rondo on the bench. They replaced Rondo with IT and made PO push on the strength of improved defense, how about that!
Mavs finally being competitive after getting rid of Rondo vs Kings falling flat on their faces, whenever DMC is on the bench...yeah it looks the same.
Since acquiring Rondo Mavs were +0.037 PPP without him and -0.084 with him on the floor, including massive dropoff offensively. And Mavs are far less ball-dominant team. That was actually the main appeal of Rondo to Mavs - get improvement on D (effect turned out to be minimal, even for a team with suspect defense, while Collison's defense for the Kings might have been his most important quality - even with Malone gone, whenever Kings had Darren and Demarcus on the floor during the time, when no one was giving a damn about playing, they were still allowing only 104.3 PPP - no longer NBA-best, but still in competition for top5!!!) and creativity offensively, since shooting is better used in a two-man game rather than isolation. Well, when everyone goes under screen, it kinda defeats the purpose. Before Rondo was still able to combat that with his quickness, which is now gone. Rondo is not signing for less than $8 million, which means, he'd be the only acquisition this summer, and that would be truly terrible.
This year Celtics were the same team with/without him before the trade - slightly better defensively and worse offensively with Rondo on the bench. They replaced Rondo with IT and made PO push on the strength of improved defense, how about that!
KingsFanGER
Starter
Not advocating Rondo to the Kings, but the Celtics success had something to do with splitting the playmaking between Turner, Smart, Bradley and IT. With Rondo they relied almost totally on his playmaking ability, with everyone besides Rondo moving to recieve the pass and finish. After he got traded they had multiple ball handlers and everyone moved the ball and was allowed to dribble drive.
So one can argue, that getting rid of Rondo made them a better team.
But they only got better, because they had so many players that can set people up and can pass the ball. The Kings on the other hand have 1 above average passer, Cousins. So maybe an old fashioned playmaker, would be more viable for us, than he was for the Celtics or Mavs?
On the other hand, I think that the game moves more into the direction of overall ball movement and playmaking out of every position. So aquiring Rondo and handing him the keys to the offense, may be a move against the overall trend of the league.
And in my opinion trends have their legitimate causes.
Smart is actually not handling the ball that much for a nominal PG. Certainly much better than Ben, but, say, comparable to Ray. Bradley handled the ball more this season, but a lot of it resulted in him pulling up from 15-20 feet, so if you want to compare playmaking of DC-Rudy-DMC and 'Dre off the bench to Smart-Bradley-Turner and IT leading the bench, I'm taking Kings. Even under Karl almost 59% of Rudy's and 49% of Boogie's shots were unassisted, which is only 1-2 points lower, than their season averages - they are just more comfortable this way. Replace DC with Rondo, and you mess up Kings offense much more, than Mavs did.
LPKingsFan
All-Star
Reading on Twitter now that Rondo did not receive a playoff share from the Mavs. Sometimes actions speak louder than words.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
I agree with everything except the part about Rondo not fitting Karl's system. If George Karl had success in Denver with Ty Lawson, I don't see why he can't have success with Rondo. Lawson is a better shooter, but he's also a ball-pounder (note that I don't see that as a negative for a PG
And I'm glad you're coming around on Myles Turner.
On the first part, we'll just have to agree to disagree. On Turner, I've always liked him, and I've cut him some slack because of how he was used at Texas. I just happen to like some other players better. But if their gone when we pick, I'd have no problem taking Turner.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
It's interesting to me that I read post after post of people commenting about what a cancer Rajon Rondo is (most of them offering no proof, just stating it as fact) and then I posted one article (from ESPN, so it's not like I pulled it out of the backwoods) which questions that viewpoint and suddenly you don't want to talk about it. Suddenly this thread has run it's course and there's nothing left to say. I showed you quotes from Doc Rivers, Brad Stevens, Ray Allen, Paul Pierce, Kevin Garnett, Avery Bradley, and Keyoon Dooling that directly contradict this prevailing "Rondo is a team cancer" theory and you don't even want to comment on that? That's entirely up to you. If you're done talking about Rondo, that's fine. But every time somebody tells me Rondo is a horrible teammate I'm going to keep bringing these quotes up because that at at least proves that this prevailing theory is in dispute.
I completely understand people not wanting us to get Rondo because they don't like the way he plays, they don't think he can gel with Cousins or George Karl, or they think his injury has reduced him to an ineffective player and he's unlikely to recover. It really bothers me that a few people (and if you trace all of this back, it's really just a few people making these claims) have taken it upon themselves to completely smear Rondo's reputation because he's not a boring athlete who smiles for the cameras and makes PC statements about playing the right way. His teammates love him, surely that tells you something. And I'll keep responding as long as there's something to respond to. If not, I've said everything I have to say already.
And I happen to like frogs.
Chicken fried frog legs. Yum!
bajaden
Hall of Famer
He's talking about Gary Payton when Karl was the coach of Seattle.
Here's Gary Payton's 3pt% in the years he was coached by George Karl:
92/93: 21% (34 attempts)
93/94: 28% (54 attempts)
94/95: 30% (232 attempts)
95/96: 33% (299 attempts)
96/97: 31% (380 attempts)
97/98: 34% (397 attempt)
The year they got to the Finals was 95/96.
Only two of those years even approach average for a guard.
Rondo shot 29% from three last year (90 attempts) and 31% from three this year (86 attempts).
Percentage-wise, that's not that much worse than Payton.
Also, since someone mentioned midrange...
92/93: 21% (34 attempts)
93/94: 28% (54 attempts)
94/95: 30% (232 attempts)
95/96: 33% (299 attempts)
96/97: 31% (380 attempts)
97/98: 34% (397 attempt)
The year they got to the Finals was 95/96.
Only two of those years even approach average for a guard.
Rondo shot 29% from three last year (90 attempts) and 31% from three this year (86 attempts).
Percentage-wise, that's not that much worse than Payton.
Also, since someone mentioned midrange...
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K
Kingsguy881
Guest
Forget Rondo. Let's talk about Chinese people. With their Kung fu...and all that silly ching Chang Chong talk! I can't understand you! Go back to your country, white power. (VF21 before you ban me, it's a Dave Chapelle reference. Totally a joke. White power!)Point being. Let's NOT talk about Rondo. Let him play in China.
randymoss1881
Starter
I'd sign Tyrone Biggums before Rondo
K
Kingsguy881
Guest
Clayton Bigsby. He's blind but I bet he is money from range!
Bosnian Diehard
Starter
Not too far off.
Mod note: There are current threads discussing Rondo. I'm closing this one to new comments because:
1) It's six months old.
2) There is a high likelihood that new comments will be of the "I told you so" type, and I'm cutting that off at the pass.
1) It's six months old.
2) There is a high likelihood that new comments will be of the "I told you so" type, and I'm cutting that off at the pass.
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