fiction916
G-League
Assuming WCS develops as you expect by season's end, and assuming everyone is healthy, what does our depth-chart look like?
Ideal Depth Chart by Season's End
- Thread starter fiction916
- Start date
Jkbiker
Starter
Cuz, Koufos,
WCS, Bargs, 14 Moreland
Gay, Casspi, Butler
Ben, Belenini, 13th Anderson
Rondo, Collison, Miller?
That is 14 on Roster With Moreland,-Anderson inactive Injury Ins could go to D-league?
Yes only 4 active bigs (but Gay may play some 4)
hence the need for Butler
3 pgs needed so Karl can play 2 pgs?
WCS, Bargs, 14 Moreland
Gay, Casspi, Butler
Ben, Belenini, 13th Anderson
Rondo, Collison, Miller?
That is 14 on Roster With Moreland,-Anderson inactive Injury Ins could go to D-league?
Yes only 4 active bigs (but Gay may play some 4)
hence the need for Butler
3 pgs needed so Karl can play 2 pgs?
Sac.Kings
All-Star
I think you may have miscounted. Without Miller, we have 13 on the roster (if you include Moreland). We definitely need a 3rd PG and my hope is that it's Miller, though there is also Stockton as well if you wanna go dirt cheap. I would use the 15th spot for Reggie for some vet toughness and to counter Barg's softness.
Nikolizzle
G-League
Stockton is under contract for the upcoming season (As far as i'm aware) so unless he's waived, you can add him in.
Rondo/DC/Stockton
BMac/Bellinelli/Anderson
Gay/Casspi/Butler
Boogie/Moreland
WCS/Koufos/(Bargs)
Rondo/DC/Stockton
BMac/Bellinelli/Anderson
Gay/Casspi/Butler
Boogie/Moreland
WCS/Koufos/(Bargs)
Sac.Kings
All-Star
So it comes down to Miller or Reggie, although my argument is if we want Miller, then we have no need for Stockton and can let him go. We can use his space then to sign Reggie. The selfish part of me really wants Miller and Reggie both to come back -- Miller for veteran leadership (lead by example) and Reggie because he was close to Cousins, plus he's still a tough guy you can throw out there to p*ss everyone else off.
lwc
Starter
Since the OP asked for our ideal depth chart, this would be mine.
Koufos
Cuz
Gay
Ben
Rondo
WCS
Bargnani
Casspi
Belinelli
Collison
Butler
Moreland
Anderson
However, what I expect to see and could be okay with as long as Karl and the team can make it work is this:
Cuz
Gay
Ben
Collison
Rondo
Main Bench (One of either Rondo/Collison AND Gay/Cousins always on the floor)
Koufos
WCS
Belinelli
Casspi
Situational Only
Bargs
Anderson
Butler
Moreland
Stockton (if kept)
Koufos
Cuz
Gay
Ben
Rondo
WCS
Bargnani
Casspi
Belinelli
Collison
Butler
Moreland
Anderson
However, what I expect to see and could be okay with as long as Karl and the team can make it work is this:
Cuz
Gay
Ben
Collison
Rondo
Main Bench (One of either Rondo/Collison AND Gay/Cousins always on the floor)
Koufos
WCS
Belinelli
Casspi
Situational Only
Bargs
Anderson
Butler
Moreland
Stockton (if kept)
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Olynk
Bargnani
Smith
Turner
Thomas
Bargnani
Smith
Turner
Thomas
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
I doubt WCS starts so maybe?
Cousins C
Gay PF
Casspi SF
Bmac SG
Rondo PG
Cousins C
Gay PF
Casspi SF
Bmac SG
Rondo PG
I think that's very possible.
Karl likes playing two PGs but he doesn't generally start them. Especially if Andre Miller is the 3rd PG.
I think it's very possible that depending on matchups we see either the lineup you posted or this one:
Cousins
Koufos
Gay
McLemore
Rondo
I think we should roll out a starting lineup of:
Rondo
McLemore
Gay
Bargnani
Cousins
I like the idea of Bargnani in with our starters. He'll get a ton of open looks playing with Cousins, Rondo and Gay. Cousins can cover some of his deficiencies defensively and on the boards. In the case Bargs is too much of a liability, we being in WCS or Koufus off the bench. This would give us a bench unit of
Collison
Belinelli
Butler
Casspi
WCS
Koufus
Gives us a deadly 11 man rotation. We have the ability to go big, we can go small, we can go with a running fast break unit with Rondo and Collsion as the guards with Gay at the 4. So many options with this team.
Rondo
McLemore
Gay
Bargnani
Cousins
I like the idea of Bargnani in with our starters. He'll get a ton of open looks playing with Cousins, Rondo and Gay. Cousins can cover some of his deficiencies defensively and on the boards. In the case Bargs is too much of a liability, we being in WCS or Koufus off the bench. This would give us a bench unit of
Collison
Belinelli
Butler
Casspi
WCS
Koufus
Gives us a deadly 11 man rotation. We have the ability to go big, we can go small, we can go with a running fast break unit with Rondo and Collsion as the guards with Gay at the 4. So many options with this team.
'89 Kings Fan
Bench
Rondo
McLemore
Gay
Cousins
Koufus
C/PF: WCS
PF/SF: Casspi
SF/SG: Belinelli
PG: Collison
Nine man rotation, no more five bench players at a time.
10th: Moreland In Case of Foul Trouble
11th: Alexander (Garbage time)
12th: Andre Miller (Garbage time)
13th: Butler (In case of emergency, Veteran Leadership)
14th: Quincy Miller (D-League)
15th: Arturas Gudaitis (D-League)
McLemore
Gay
Cousins
Koufus
C/PF: WCS
PF/SF: Casspi
SF/SG: Belinelli
PG: Collison
Nine man rotation, no more five bench players at a time.
10th: Moreland In Case of Foul Trouble
11th: Alexander (Garbage time)
12th: Andre Miller (Garbage time)
13th: Butler (In case of emergency, Veteran Leadership)
14th: Quincy Miller (D-League)
15th: Arturas Gudaitis (D-League)
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
I really like this starting 5, especially on defense. I would however worry that lineup lacks enough shooting. I'd prefer to take full advantage of rondos skills. Now maybe by seasons end it will be
Koufos
Cuz
Gay
Bmac
Collison.
Strong d at three positions (c pf pg) two strong shooters ( sg pg) and two scorers ( pf sf )
DesertFox
Starter
I like it, although I think Butler would be that 10th spot guy. Just last year he was making noise about pt, and if he can still shoot he can fill the extra combo forward role.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Still have no idea why people are so intent on starting Koufos, a 7'0" 265 center, next to Cousins, a 6'11" 270lb center, when you have the obvious WCS who was drafted precisely to play alongside the bruisers with his mobility.
The Hammer
All-Star
Alright I'll play the game, but I'll change the rules. Starting five and bench first month of the season.
Cuz
WCS
Gay
Ben
Rondo
First group of subs:
Belinelli
Koufos (for Cuz in first Q to save gas for fourth and limit foul trouble while keeping D staunch, paired with Belinelli to give us a different offensive look offensively for last few mins of first Q and into second. Our strength is our versatility. Throwing so many looks at you you won't be able to stop them all.)
Then:
Casspi
Collison (still on the floor on 2nd q when Rondo comes back in, and we give their starting five a different look. Stays on floor to go hard and and keep ball movement crisp to fatigue their first team.)
spot/matchup minutes
Butler
Miller
Moreland
4th Q in close games from 7 minutes on:
(the score any way we damn well please while shutting you the **** down inside lineup)
Cuz
WCS
Gay
Collison
Rondo (rondo guards their 2)
OR:
(the lights out shut er down go home raining threes line up)
Cuz
Gay
Belinelli
Ben
Collison
Cuz
WCS
Gay
Ben
Rondo
First group of subs:
Belinelli
Koufos (for Cuz in first Q to save gas for fourth and limit foul trouble while keeping D staunch, paired with Belinelli to give us a different offensive look offensively for last few mins of first Q and into second. Our strength is our versatility. Throwing so many looks at you you won't be able to stop them all.)
Then:
Casspi
Collison (still on the floor on 2nd q when Rondo comes back in, and we give their starting five a different look. Stays on floor to go hard and and keep ball movement crisp to fatigue their first team.)
spot/matchup minutes
Butler
Miller
Moreland
4th Q in close games from 7 minutes on:
(the score any way we damn well please while shutting you the **** down inside lineup)
Cuz
WCS
Gay
Collison
Rondo (rondo guards their 2)
OR:
(the lights out shut er down go home raining threes line up)
Cuz
Gay
Belinelli
Ben
Collison
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'89 Kings Fan
Bench
The other team will be in foul trouble in two minutes? Whose Dirk going to guard? Draymond Green?
Doesn't mean we finish with that lineup, but if you can knock Aldridge off his game it's worth it.
twslam07
All-Star
Without being able to see Cauley-Stein go up against NBA competition, it's pretty ambitious to slot him in as a starter on day 1 when you're trying to be a contending team. You can try to bring up evidence why you think he will be good enough from day 1 to start, but the fact is that we don't know how he will perform. He is not a known commodity.
I will say this. If he is starting on day 1, I'm going to assume that the coaches have seen enough out of him during practices, training camp, preseason, etc. to know that he is good enough to be our starting PF. However, for all of us (and I say all of us assuming nobody works as a Sacramento Kings coach), we don't have the luxury of seeing Cauley-Stein go up against his teammates in practice everyday. So please, don't sit there and say "still have no idea why people are so intent on starting Koufos...when you have the obvious WCS who was drafted precisely to play alongside the bruisers with his mobility." Koufos is a known commodity, and I will go with the known commodity when making my starting lineup.
Again, coaches have much more access to how rookies are performing and can make that call if Cauley-Stein is playing at a high enough level, but it's wrong for any fan here to say that starting Koufos over Cauley-Stein from day 1 is a mistake. There's just no ground for you to stand on.
Having said that, I think most on this forum (including myself) believe that the player we hope Cauley-Stein will be is the best fit in the starting lineup next to Cousins, but again, there's too many question marks for fans to sit there and have so much confidence in starting a rookie when not having enough exposure to watching him play against NBA competition.
So, please, forgive all of us who would like to reserve the right to see our new rookie against NBA competition before we crown him Cousins' new starting frontcourt mate (especially with a known commodity like Koufos on our team).
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Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Koufos is a known commodity at CENTER. As is Cuz, who got rather good at it. Trying to move one of them out to PF is at least as ambitious as slotting in a 21yr old rookie with the right physical and defensive markers for it. I happen to love Twin Towers sets, but we've never had one in the NBA with two guys as bulky as Koufos and Cuz. And of course any lineup with WCS is a Twin Towers set itself.
twslam07
All-Star
I really am wondering why you think Koufos would be the PF in a Cousins/Koufos pairing. Very odd...
Cousins would obviously be the PF in this rotation, and if your really think Cousins at PF is more a risk than Cauley-Stein starting at PF, than I don't know what to tell you. Randolph and Gasol had a lot of success over the past years, and Cousins is more mobile than Randolph. If a worse defending, less mobile player like Randolph can play PF, I see no reason why Cousins can't.
Again, this will all be moot if Cauley-Stein is able to translate quickly to the NBA because the idea of what Cauley-Stein can be is a better fit than Koufos. However, it's foolish for a fan to be so one sided on the "start Cauley-Stein" train when you haven't seen how his game has translated to the NBA. For a team that needs to start competing immediately, that's too big of a risk. Like I mentioned before, if he is starting from day 1, I'm assuming he's performing very well in practice against NBA caliber players, but again, there is no way anyone here would have that knowledge. Therefore, your strong, one-sided stance is rather silly.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
You are taking a highly foul prone superstar, and moving him out of position to go use up energy chasing around smaller players on the perimeter, and you don't think that's a major risk? meanwhile you are also taking him off the defensive boards, and out of his normal interior charge taking comfort zone.
On the other hand you have WCS exactly in his comfort zone. This blanket rookie fear is very odd. Half of the point of drafting such an old rookie was precisely to take advantage of his NBA readiness. I'm a little curious what people think WCS can possibly do out there to scuttle us that cause them to resort to radical contortions to avoid it. If Koufos were a star this might be warranted. But he's just a roleplayer too, and we're running around moving Top 10 players in the world out of position out of preference for one roleplayer over another.
twslam07
All-Star
Interesting how that said player has openly said he would prefer to play "out of position" as you so elegantly put it...
But you are missing the point. It's about making the team better. If Cauley-Stein is not able to perform at a high level on day 1, you start Koufos instead. You can talk about Cousins not playing his natural position (which I agree that center is his natural position), but a non-NBA ready rookie and Cousins is not going to make the team better than Koufos and Cousins playing together. I really don't see how anyone can argue that.
You keep avoiding my point when it comes to knowing his NBA readiness. You don't know. We believe that he is more NBA ready than a lot of the other prospects that were drafted, but the only people who will know (or at least have a much better idea) by opening day are the coaches. To sit here and make proclamations that Cauley-Stein should start without that knowledge is absurd. The logical stance is to have an open mind about Cousins frontcourt mate on day 1.
I've already said that if Cauley -Stein becomes the player we think he will be, he is a better fit next to Cousins than Koufos is, but again, to have such a strong stance on the matter when you are lacking valuable insight and knowledge is silly. You can choose to believe that if you'd like, but you really have no ground to try and challenge anyone who doesn't have as strong of a gut feeling as you do.
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jcassio
Starter
Rajon Rondo/Darren Collison/??
Ben McLemore/Marco Belinelli/James Anderson
Rudy Gay/Omri Casspi/Caron Butler
Willie Caulie-Stein/Eric Moreland
DeMarcus Cousins/Kosta Koufos
I would like to see us ink a 3rd PG who would only get minutes if/when Rondo or Collison are out. Could be Stockton or Miller.
This gives us 13 players; then I would use the 14th spot to bring in players from Reno and/or to sign a nice pickup off waivers.
I would definitely like to see Karl start WCS, but will assume he plays him fewer minutes - at least to begin the season. So who gets the other 20-35 min at PF is the more interesting question. Gay should get some PF minutes, of course, since that's been Karl's plan and since we're (arguably) deepest at the 3. To the extent that we can play Cuz and Koufos at the same time, then some of those minutes will go there. Moreland should get some opportunities. Even Casspi may get some minutes at PF, depending on match-ups. So while it may seem that we are least deepest at the 4 and 5, I think we've got it covered.
Ben McLemore/Marco Belinelli/James Anderson
Rudy Gay/Omri Casspi/Caron Butler
Willie Caulie-Stein/Eric Moreland
DeMarcus Cousins/Kosta Koufos
I would like to see us ink a 3rd PG who would only get minutes if/when Rondo or Collison are out. Could be Stockton or Miller.
This gives us 13 players; then I would use the 14th spot to bring in players from Reno and/or to sign a nice pickup off waivers.
I would definitely like to see Karl start WCS, but will assume he plays him fewer minutes - at least to begin the season. So who gets the other 20-35 min at PF is the more interesting question. Gay should get some PF minutes, of course, since that's been Karl's plan and since we're (arguably) deepest at the 3. To the extent that we can play Cuz and Koufos at the same time, then some of those minutes will go there. Moreland should get some opportunities. Even Casspi may get some minutes at PF, depending on match-ups. So while it may seem that we are least deepest at the 4 and 5, I think we've got it covered.
I completely agree with the first part, I don't think it's a good idea to put Cousins next to Koufos- this pairing isn't playing to the strengths of what Cousins do best on offense and on defense.
I do have the same rookie fear- I don't know why you think old rookies are so much better at adjusting to the NBA, here is a short list of high picks from last year draft:
Nik (So.)- wasn't even close to ready.
Elfrid Payton (Jr.)- was supposed to be a defensive stopper but opponents shot 4% higher FG% on him than usual.
McDermott (Sr.)- didn't really contribute his rookie year.
Adrien Payne (Sr.)- was sold as a "NBA ready" product and gave next to nothing his rookie year.
If you want to look at players we drafted in the past you can look at 2012 when we drafted a Junior (like WCS) in Thomas Robinson who wasn't exactly ready to contribute or go to 2011 when we drafted a Senior in Jimmer...
WCS has great tools, but I think it will take him (like nearly all rookies) time to cash in on them.
I'm not sure how I feel about this but from the way this team was built I see a very good chance we are going to go with Gay at the 4 with Casspi who was great under Karl getting the starting SF job, In April (8 games) as a starter he recorded 19.9 points, 5.8 rebounds and 2.9 assits with great efficiency (55.4 FG%, 50% from three on 3.3 attempts).
If that is the plan I can understand better why he took a paycut to stay and why Butler signed a vet minimum deal with our team (cause I don't see him being happy as an end of the bench player in a non-contending team).
CuzistanKing
G-League
My only fear with starting WCS next to Cuz is that refs LOVE whistling rookies for fouls that they'd normally let go. Remember when Stauskas checked in for the first time and was whistled for 3 fouls in like 10 seconds? Add that to Cuz being foul prone in general and you have a reason for concern. That's why Josh Smith made so much sense to me - big enough to guard fours, mobile enough to chase them around. Outside of WCS, right now our options are either too small (Rudy) or too lumbering (Koufos).
All that said, I still start WCS and let him earn his stripes (he has the right attitude and fire) - better start developing our twin towers of the future from the get-go.
All that said, I still start WCS and let him earn his stripes (he has the right attitude and fire) - better start developing our twin towers of the future from the get-go.
'89 Kings Fan
Bench
I have seen enough from WCS that I think he should start. He might be foul prone but we are a deep team, so if he gets 6 fouls every night it won't hurt us. I still think we should pick up Quincy Miller as our stretch 4, bonus that he played for Karl in Denver. Instead of David Stockton or 40 year old Andre Miller, I think we should steal Aaron Craft from the Warriors. They don't have a roster spot for him and we need a real backup with two injury prone PGs.
PG: Rondo/Collison/Craft
SG: McLemore/Belinelli/Alexander
SF: Gay/Casspi/Butler
PF: WCS/Moreland/Miller
C: Cousins/Koufos/Gudaitis
PG: Rondo/Collison/Craft
SG: McLemore/Belinelli/Alexander
SF: Gay/Casspi/Butler
PF: WCS/Moreland/Miller
C: Cousins/Koufos/Gudaitis
KingsFanGER
Starter
Craft would be a good pickup, although it might be a better idea to get a lockdown shooter as the 3rd PG.
The twin towers lineup with Cuz and Koufos can only work, if Koufos is able to punish smaller guys on offense enough to force the other coach to go big. I do think Koufos is a better player than Asik, but his game is somewhat similar. And the Pel's really had problems on the offensive end in the playoffs with Asik on the floor. I'm not sure that Koufos is skilled enough to punish strong, smaller defenders. And the best big man of the opposing team will always guard Cuz no matter if he plays as a nominal PF.
And I do think, that Koufos will have some trouble guarding quicker PF's like Griffin, AD or even Randolph full time.
To me a lineup of:
Rondo/DC
Ben
Gay
WCS
Cuz
or
Rondo/DC
Ben
Bellinelli
Gay
Cuz
makes the most sense. It really depends on Karl and his preference to maximize the defensive or the offensive output of our team.
I would like to keep Casspi in his role as a facilitator, cutter and ball handler in the bench unit.
The twin towers lineup with Cuz and Koufos can only work, if Koufos is able to punish smaller guys on offense enough to force the other coach to go big. I do think Koufos is a better player than Asik, but his game is somewhat similar. And the Pel's really had problems on the offensive end in the playoffs with Asik on the floor. I'm not sure that Koufos is skilled enough to punish strong, smaller defenders. And the best big man of the opposing team will always guard Cuz no matter if he plays as a nominal PF.
And I do think, that Koufos will have some trouble guarding quicker PF's like Griffin, AD or even Randolph full time.
To me a lineup of:
Rondo/DC
Ben
Gay
WCS
Cuz
or
Rondo/DC
Ben
Bellinelli
Gay
Cuz
makes the most sense. It really depends on Karl and his preference to maximize the defensive or the offensive output of our team.
I would like to keep Casspi in his role as a facilitator, cutter and ball handler in the bench unit.
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