I know it's only 2 games, but

[Rayfa]

For only the second time this year, the KINGs sweep a back to back, and the first was at N.O., where we lost later this year.

CWebb for all his great numbers was the 98th most efficient scorer per shot in league and a minus in the +/_ category.

Before trade, last 2 years..........38-31 with CWebb playing 51-16 when he was not playing.....Yikes

Williamson and Thomas aren't Allstars, but they give us experienced depth and inside presence we haven't had in years.

2-0 for New Look KINGs. Ya I wish we could have got more, but don't you think if Geoff could've he would've.

Keep the faith, this team has improved.

 

[bigbadred00]

He was also #8 in the league in total Efficiency. Shooting was never his strong point but he had a great all around game which is what will miss. These last 2 games even 3 games have been a good sign. Kings didn't even play that badly on the losing streak, they just kept folding in the 4th, I guess b/c they were tired, atleast this gives some depth.

 

[Rayfa]

The stat that crushed me when I heard it on Rome

Was the KINGs record with and without him the last two years. I know some of that was integrating him back into the line-up when he came back last year, but cmon 51-16 vs 38-31 is pretty strong reason to get rid of the big guy. Hey, I love watching him too, but it was time to get rid of the big guy and wish him well, and thank him for all he did.

 

[bigbadred00]

How many of those games were with and without Bobby, Rayfa. If you look, Webber and Bobby have only been together for 24 games of those what 150 games. That's what we've really been missing, his scoring off the bench. We are like a 700 team without Peja, Bibby or Webber, and a 500 or so team without Bobby. You can blame Webber for the losing then so be it, but we have really missed Bobby more than anything. Also we were 17 games above 500 until the losing streak including 10-3 with Mobley, but then we got hurt, injuries affect wins.

 

[Bibby_Is_Clutch]

Hopefully when Peja comes back he can play like his MVP self of last season.

 

[Bricklayer]

Was the KINGs record with and without him the last two years. I know some of that was integrating him back into the line-up when he came back last year, but cmon 51-16 vs 38-31 is pretty strong reason to get rid of the big guy. Hey, I love watching him too, but it was time to get rid of the big guy and wish him well, and thank him for all he did.

I think its hig htime someone took that stat out, so here goes:

a) last season Webb was not Webb. There is no doubt that his return duisrupted things, also no doubt that injuries also made it more acute. But in any case that has almost zippo relevance to THIS season because it is not the same player out there as he was last year.

b) and as I've repeately pointed out this season Webb picked mostly very easy games to miss this year, so of course we win them -- 7-1? Sure. 7-1 with 7 of the 8 being home games and only 1 of the teams having a +.500 record -- the teams were a combined 84 games under .500 when I looked at it just last week.

So 1 year you don't have the real Webb playing. And this year you don't have a remotely reasonable sample. ANY player missing those 8 games wouold have abruptly looked irrelevant.

 

[Padrino]

ya know....it is only 2 games, but if the new guys can gel with the team easy enough, and peja can come back in full form, then i would say the kings chances at gettin relatively deep in the playoffs might just not be completely out of the realm of possibility. i would not go so far as to say we've got a shot at the title, but i'd say we could still claim the #3 seed in the west. when you look at the standing, the kings are only a few games back on seattle in the loss column, and seattle's played 3 less games than us. we're really close with dallas as well, but again, dallas has also played 3 fewer games than the kings have. if the kings can put together a string of wins in march, then they've got a chance at catching seattle. phoneix and SA are well out of reach, so i would prefer if they stay that way, and just beat up on our opposition. again, not much of a shot at a title, but gettin somewhere in the playoffs, and i think the WCF, while optimistic, is a possibilty, and it would do wonders for our confidence going into next season. it'd be especially nice shuttin up a lot of the doubters and nay sayers.

 

[Vlad]

I think the most telling stat for any player is his +/-

I bet when Webber was healthy it was +

 

[Vlad]

ya know....it is only 2 games, but if the new guys can gel with the team easy enough, and peja can come back in full form, then i would say the kings chances at gettin relatively deep in the playoffs might just not be completely out of the realm of possibility. i would not go so far as to say we've got a shot at the title, but i'd say we could still claim the #3 seed in the west. when you look at the standing, the kings are only a few games back on seattle in the loss column, and seattle's played 3 less games than us. we're really close with dallas as well, but again, dallas has also played 3 fewer games than the kings have. if the kings can put together a string of wins in march, then they've got a chance at catching seattle. phoneix and SA are well out of reach, so i would prefer if they stay that way, and just beat up on our opposition. again, not much of a shot at a title, but gettin somewhere in the playoffs, and i think the WCF, while optimistic, is a possibilty, and it would do wonders for our confidence going into next season. it'd be especially nice shuttin up a lot of the doubters and nay sayers.

I think the kings have an outside chance of winning a championship with this team. I think the trade really helps us with depth/rebounding/defense. Like Bibby said, there are enough scorers on the Kings, and this trade helped us where we were weak.

 

[love_them_kings]

I think its hig htime someone took that stat out, so here goes:

a) last season Webb was not Webb. There is no doubt that his return duisrupted things, also no doubt that injuries also made it more acute. But in any case that has almost zippo relevance to THIS season because it is not the same player out there as he was last year.

b) and as I've repeately pointed out this season Webb picked mostly very easy games to miss this year, so of course we win them -- 7-1? Sure. 7-1 with 7 of the 8 being home games and only 1 of the teams having a +.500 record -- the teams were a combined 84 games under .500 when I looked at it just last week.

So 1 year you don't have the real Webb playing. And this year you don't have a remotely reasonable sample. ANY player missing those 8 games wouold have abruptly looked irrelevant.

THANK YOU, thank you, thank you!! Also, last season Miller and Bobby got hurt, our schedule got harder, etc,etc, etc. Stats are only stats, and they are so easy to misintepret. Webb brought so much to this team that you can't even put it into words. I know there are those that think we're better without him, but I disagree. I think our chances this year dwindled whe he was traded. Doesn't mean it was a horrible trade, but in my eyes, I think Petrie was looking long term, not short term. Anything could happen, and I still think we will have an exciting and successful end to the season, but if our goal THIS year was a championship, I think CWebb would still be here.

 

[HndsmCelt]

I think its hig htime someone took that stat out, so here goes:

a) last season Webb was not Webb. There is no doubt that his return duisrupted things, also no doubt that injuries also made it more acute. But in any case that has almost zippo relevance to THIS season because it is not the same player out there as he was last year.

b) and as I've repeately pointed out this season Webb picked mostly very easy games to miss this year, so of course we win them -- 7-1? Sure. 7-1 with 7 of the 8 being home games and only 1 of the teams having a +.500 record -- the teams were a combined 84 games under .500 when I looked at it just last week.

So 1 year you don't have the real Webb playing. And this year you don't have a remotely reasonable sample. ANY player missing those 8 games wouold have abruptly looked irrelevant.

How dare you try to counter blind hate with irrelevant things like facts! Some of us just wnat to belive that Webber is the cause of every Kings problem, poor rebounding, poor defense and that he took too many shots freezing out more deserving team mates. So jsut take your reality and leave it has no place here where the idiosyncratic and specualtion rule. We choose to belive the team is now better at rebounding, and will pass the ball better and darn it two wins proove us right!

 

[acisking]

^^lol - u forgot to mention against good but not great teams

 

[BigSong]

I think its hig htime someone took that stat out, so here goes:

a) last season Webb was not Webb. There is no doubt that his return duisrupted things, also no doubt that injuries also made it more acute. But in any case that has almost zippo relevance to THIS season because it is not the same player out there as he was last year.

b) and as I've repeately pointed out this season Webb picked mostly very easy games to miss this year, so of course we win them -- 7-1? Sure. 7-1 with 7 of the 8 being home games and only 1 of the teams having a +.500 record -- the teams were a combined 84 games under .500 when I looked at it just last week.

So 1 year you don't have the real Webb playing. And this year you don't have a remotely reasonable sample. ANY player missing those 8 games wouold have abruptly looked irrelevant.

seriously i don't see what your point is. I don't think Rayfa was saying anything differently, or believe that webber wasnt great for the team in the past. Everyone knows webb was the best thing to ever happen to the Kings. and for the six years or so that we had him he was in his prime for most of it, worth the money and everything else. but post injuries he has been just a shade of his formal self. moving him now was a great move seeing how his contract is bloated for the the last 3 years.

 

[NJKingsFan]

How dare you try to counter blind hate with irrelevant things like facts! Some of us just wnat to belive that Webber is the cause of every Kings problem, poor rebounding, poor defense and that he took too many shots freezing out more deserving team mates. So jsut take your reality and leave it has no place here where the idiosyncratic and specualtion rule. We choose to belive the team is now better at rebounding, and will pass the ball better and darn it two wins proove us right!

"where idiosyncratic and speculation rule"..... sounds like the mind of Ailene Voision.

 

[Evenstar]

^^lol - u forgot to mention against good but not great teams

well i do remember the kings did beat the spurs in SA, the lakers in LA, and the pistons in detroit last year with out webber, for what thats worth. i'm not trying to start anything, just pointing that out. other then that, it was mostly against bad teams.

it's nice to see the kings win the first 2 games. they must be emotionally exhausted. i'm very intrested to see how this team plays when the new guys get a few practices in ( cat included) i think the kings could do very well.

 

[skeletor8]

Wouldn't you have expected the Kings to win these two games with Webber? Just saying that it's not like they just beat two of the 10 best teams in the league the last two games (6ers may get there eventually, will take some time though).

 

[piksi]

Wouldn't you have expected the Kings to win these two games with Webber? Just saying that it's not like they just beat two of the 10 best teams in the league the last two games (6ers may get there eventually, will take some time though).

Considering the opponents that we lost too recently and all the other circumsances - these 2 wins are really good.

 

[bigbadred00]

Well considering we were leading what 5 games in a row only to lose in late in the fourth, on top of them 2 came down to questionable calls, on top of that, they were against top 5 teams in the league. You guys forget the Kings have had the #7th toughest schedule in the league and we were 25 until the last stretch of games. So, the last stretch was tough, on top of us being injured, on top of us introducing new parts. So i hated watching the last 10 or so games, but you can't expect to beat top 5 teams, with injured stars.

 

[skeletor8]

Granted, just pointing out that people are acting like these are games we could not have won before trading that useless superstar last week. Remember that before we lost 6 of 7 we won 8 or 9 of ten.

And these last two wins were won more just as much by the other teams collapsing (Sixers making bad decisions, air-balling wide-open threes, missing Ft's and layups, Washington turning the ball over on ~8 straight possesions in the fourth and going ~50% from the FT line) as it was great play by the Kings. If no trade had been made, Webber haters would have been furious at how we managed to not win impressively against two second or third-tier Leastern conference teams on the road. Now that Webber is gone, these wins are shown as proof that the trade was great and Petrie is still God. Just making an observation, that's all.

 

[piksi]

Granted, just pointing out that people are acting like these are games we could not have won before trading that useless superstar last week.

Hi is not a King anymore. It does not really matter what could have been or not. There is no going back. He is moving on, Kings moved on and we have to do it also.

 

[bigbadred00]

Your just trying to say correlation does not equal causation. Which is definitely true. A couple of good things go right in those losses and they were easily wins. Difference between a Lakers title and a Kings title is 1 made shot or 1 made free throw in regulation in game 7 in 2002. So little stuff does count as much as it hurts.

 

[skeletor8]

Well since people are in fact speculating on how much better the team seems to be playing in two games in which they trailed for ~80% of the games, I feel the need to disagree. I am merely giving an opposing view. If you find no value in an opposing view piksi, so be it.

The Kings eeked out a win against Boston before the break and won by ten over Atlanta at home and people were going crazy ripping into the team. Now with somewhat similar wins, people are hailing the "Return of the King"s which I think is greatly premature. I see many signs that this thing may not work out as well as some people are beginning to think. Obviously Peja returning should help, but that remains to be seen.

 

[Bricklayer]

If no trade had been made, Webber haters would have been furious at how we managed to not win impressively against two second or third-tier Leastern conference teams on the road. Now that Webber is gone, these wins are shown as proof that the trade was great and Petrie is still God. Just making an observation, that's all.

Actually a very good observation.

I am glad we won them -- if we had dropped both these, and we could VERY eassily have done so if Mobley does not bail us out, things could have started to get nasty. But this keeps our heads up, and hopefully gives us a chance to stay focused the rest of the way.

Now were they any sort of "we are the champions" moments? Hardly. Got a lot of work to do. Wins are good, but when you say you want to improve your rebounding, and then get beat in both games, you say you want to improve your defense, then allow 103.5ppg after allowing 100ppg with Webber...well, like I say, work to still be done. These games are NOT failures -- hard for us to win under these circumstances (and remember doing this without Peja too), but our strengths/weaknesses don't look like they've changed much yet, nor would I expect them too.

 

[skeletor8]

Glad to see you could decipher the meaning of my post Bricklayer! Was beginning to think I was speaking some form of gibberish.

I was just getting a little annoyed with people seeing Skinner take one hook from 2ft. out and speculate that he has a good post game, and so on.

 

[ReinadelosReys]

Granted, just pointing out that people are acting like these are games we could not have won before trading that useless superstar last week. Remember that before we lost 6 of 7 we won 8 or 9 of ten.

And these last two wins were won more just as much by the other teams collapsing (Sixers making bad decisions, air-balling wide-open threes, missing Ft's and layups, Washington turning the ball over on ~8 straight possesions in the fourth and going ~50% from the FT line) as it was great play by the Kings. If no trade had been made, Webber haters would have been furious at how we managed to not win impressively against two second or third-tier Leastern conference teams on the road. Now that Webber is gone, these wins are shown as proof that the trade was great and Petrie is still God. Just making an observation, that's all.

And proving/making a point of those who say the Kings are not a better team after the trade. With Webb, its " yeah, well be barely won." Now with out him its " wooo hooo, we're going to win a championship." You can't say that this trade is good for the team right now, that they are going to be a better team this year becasue of it and have the aforementioned line of thinking.

 

[ReinadelosReys]

I was just getting a little annoyed with people seeing Skinner take one hook from 2ft. out and speculate that he has a good post game, and so on.

If thats the case, then from what we saw from Micheal Bradley in a Kings uniform, he's the next [insert great big man here].

 

[love_them_kings]

And proving/making a point of those who say the Kings are not a better team after the trade. With Webb, its " yeah, well be barely won." Now with out him its " wooo hooo, we're going to win a championship." You can't say that this trade is good for the team right now, that they are going to be a better team this year becasue of it and have the aforementioned line of thinking.

it's amazing what lowering your expectations will do, isn't it? Our expectations of Webb were so high that many fans found problems with his games even after he put up a double double. In contrast, everything our new guys do looks spectacular because we expected so little of them. Don't get me wrong, I am thrilled we won these two games, and I like the way the new guys are playing, but some of the people who like this trade are using two mediocre teams to justify the trade being a success. Unless you really believe we would have lost those games if Webb was in there, winning those games doesn't argue for (or against) the trade. Fact is, this trade may or may not be a great thing down the line, but for this season it lowered our (already slim) chances of a championship & our expectations of what our team will do this year.

 

[KP]

Our expectations of Webb were so high that many fans found problems with his games even after he put up a double double.

Sometimes even after a triple double...

 

[bigbadred00]

Webber you know he got 10 assists, we scored what 102 ppg, yet the offence was stagnant. Yeah man just imagine if the offence flowed we would score what 150? The problem with Webber and the Kings wasn't the O. It was definitely the D.

 

[skeletor8]

And still probably is, possibly to a greater extent. Webb didn't move too well but he was definitely our best post defender.