Those are all good points. We actually have a bench this year and it showed against the Lakers. While their bench is about the worst in the league, it's basically the same as what we were running out there last year. Being able to bring TRob, Brooks/IT, a healthy Hayes, resurgent Garcia, sophmore Jimmer and possibly Thornton off the bench is a huge improvement over last year. Bringing Thornton off the bench could be the smoking gun. Let him go out there and be a pure scorer without having to worry as much about covering the best SG's in the game. This year should be fun if Smart plays his cards right and the guys keep hustling. I just hope it doesn't turn into another woe is me type of year if they lose a few in a row or get off to a rough start.
How's Coach Smart's coaching this preseason so far
- Thread starter K F Jay
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Those are all good points. We actually have a bench this year and it showed against the Lakers. While their bench is about the worst in the league, it's basically the same as what we were running out there last year. Being able to bring TRob, Brooks/IT, a healthy Hayes, resurgent Garcia, sophmore Jimmer and possibly Thornton off the bench is a huge improvement over last year. Bringing Thornton off the bench could be the smoking gun. Let him go out there and be a pure scorer without having to worry as much about covering the best SG's in the game. This year should be fun if Smart plays his cards right and the guys keep hustling. I just hope it doesn't turn into another woe is me type of year if they lose a few in a row or get off to a rough start.
gunks
Hall of Famer
Smart gets an F... as in F'n up Tyreke's development.
All that scrappy D and passing is probably going to disappear as we start losing in the regular season. Theus, Muss, and Westphal had our teams playing D and passing for a few early season games too...And we know how that turned out.
Here's to another year of a new lineup every game!
All that scrappy D and passing is probably going to disappear as we start losing in the regular season. Theus, Muss, and Westphal had our teams playing D and passing for a few early season games too...And we know how that turned out.
Here's to another year of a new lineup every game!
Brooklyn King
Prospect
As long as Salmons doesn't see the floor he'll get nothing lower than a D from me..I think he's our best coach since Rick Adelman..but I will wait and see how this season plays out..
Section 101
All-Star
Ya, like the 2 years with Westfail isn't the reason Evans hasn't improved. Westfail had them playing D? What world do you live in?
gunks
Hall of Famer
I'm talking a couple games in. Every coach we've had since Rick, there has been a short honeymoon period to start the season. Westphal's first season, a week in, we were all thinking we finally found our replacement to RA.
I think Smart is better than Westphal. But thats not saying anything really. Thats like being the smartest bug in the roach motel.
I think Smart is better than Westphal. But thats not saying anything really. Thats like being the smartest bug in the roach motel.
CruzDude
Senior Member sharing a brew with bajaden
Agree completely. As I said, it was only 1 game and an experiment at that, but he got away with it. That points to increase in talent, coaching, defense and team work. A start. Didn't mean to imply this is the way to go in regular season. Just that for a change Kings have some depth at all 5 spots.
CruzDude
Senior Member sharing a brew with bajaden
Comment on Tyreke and his struggles. All his basketball career he has been a driver, not a shooter. When a rookie getting the 20/5/5 90%+ of his points were on drives to the bucket and fast breaks. To suddenly, 3 years into the NBA, want him to develop a "stop-and-pop" and outside jumpers is a very tall order. The whistle that Coach blows in practice when he passes an open shot is both beneficial (points up open shots to take) and a bit detrimental (anxiety for Tyreke not yet knowing when/when not to shoot and lack of confidence in his jumper yet). It is mandatory for him to develop a jumper to open up the game when he has the ball.
Every team in the league knows to block up the middle to shut down his drives and is daring him to shoot the jumper. If he wants to get to the next level, the jump shot is what will take him there, with the Kings or most anyone else. So he will struggle until his confidence in his jumper increases and he can open up the defenses. Thats why Kobe is so dangerous having both parts of his game but it took a few years to get there.
Every team in the league knows to block up the middle to shut down his drives and is daring him to shoot the jumper. If he wants to get to the next level, the jump shot is what will take him there, with the Kings or most anyone else. So he will struggle until his confidence in his jumper increases and he can open up the defenses. Thats why Kobe is so dangerous having both parts of his game but it took a few years to get there.
Hadlowe
Starter
I really don't get why everyone insists that the jumper is the key to everything for Tyreke. Yes, it would force his man to play him closer which opens up drives and p&r plays somewhat. But an outside shot is not the be-all end-all of guard basketball. I would prefer Tyreke to learn a post-up game. Imagine him posting up Westbrook or Darren Collison, or Chris Paul, or just about any 1 or 2 guard in the league. That would command a double-team just as quickly as his drives do.
Even with that said, a jumper or a post-up or a floater, or a left-handed hook will not aid Tyreke in making the leap to star if he is not put in a situation to succeed. With our current glut of ball-dominant guards and fubar rotations and plays and ownership issues, Sacramento is almost definitely not that situation. If things aren't fixed with the roster, we'll end up dumping him in a fire sale at the trade deadline then watch him immediately improve in new digs, a la JJ Hickson.
Padrino
All-Star
excellent post. i've often bemoaned the lack of creativity in keith smart's gameplan. while a mid-range jumper would undeniably bolster evans' ability to spread a defense out, his strength should be more consistently exploited by the kings' coaching staff, woefully ill-equipped though they may be. in a league composed of small, fast guards, evans stands out as a much bigger, pitbull-styled power player. he could very easily dominate down low in post up situations, a la rick adelman's utilization of bonzi wells against the spurs' guards in the 2006 playoffs...
Agent23
Starter
I agree with everything except the jumper part. He does need a low post game BUT he needs a pull up jumper. That pull up 15-20 foot pull up jumper will make him devastating. I could careless if he is a great spot shooter or an efficient three point shooter. That pull up jumper will unclog the lanes for him and he would kill teams for packing the paint against the Kings as it would give others open jumpers and wider cutting lanes.
I'd like to add that Smart should be emphasizing mid-range pullups. From what I've seen over 2+ seasons, the defense really doesn't sag that much on Tyreke when he's got the ball in his hands. It's not like his defender sees Tyreke catch the ball, takes a step back and dares him to shoot. The defense sags more once Tyreke starts driving past his defender - then the bigs don't bother running out to close on him, they just sit back in the paint and get ready to challenge the shot. That is where Tyreke has the most space to pull up for a jumpshot.
Granted, the few of these shots we have seen haven't looked very pretty thus far. Still, I think it's important for Tyreke to realise that those are the shots he should be taking, as opposed to shooting longer 3s any time he has an inch of space. Didn't the shot doc and Tyreke both agree that he'd be working on more mid-range shots, and shoot the 3 less?
rainmaker
Hall of Famer
That's part of what makes this dynamic with Smart interesting, if you want to call it that. Reke did work on his midrange game, and Petrie was quoted as saying he wants Reke patterning his midrange game after Westbrook.
Here's the thing though, he can't get those midrange shots without the ball in his hands, and he's not getting the ball with much opportunity to attack, but rather getting hit with a pass off a cut or catch and shoot perimeter shots. The scenario you outlined above, which I agree with, where he can beat his defender and there's a midrange gap before he gets to the bigs, is where that shot is. Yet, he won't get to those spots without having the ball and the ability to attack with his dribble.
Trying to turn Reke into some catch and shoot player where he touches the ball once every 5+ possessions won't work. Unless you're a shooting specialists like a Korver, you need more of the ball to find a rhythm. Interesting thing is Reke is better with the ball, and IT and Jimmer seem to play well off him. I think a good chuck of IT's 3's come off Reke kickouts. I think MT would play well off Reke as well, and we were 8-7 with a Reke/MT backcourt last year but for some asinine reason haven't seen it since.
But you can't turn guys in the mold of Wade, Lebron, Rose, Westbrook, Wall into off the ball spot up shooters who only see the ball once every 5+ possessions and expect them excel. The few opportunities Reke has been able to attack with a dribble he's looked good, but those opportunities are rare. There needs to be more of a balance between Reke and whoever is playing next to him in terms of sharing the ball, and the more Reke has the ball the more midrange jumpers we might see.
At what point does Tyreke take responsibility for his own game? LeBron, Wade, Westbrook, and Rose all took it upon themselves to add offensive versatility to their game to become elite players. Blaming Coach Smart for everything wrong with Reke is a cop out for his inability to progress offensively. Star players dominate playing for any coach, on any team, at any time.
It's not just his offensive game either. With his size and athleticism, he should already be one of the best perimeter defenders in the game. We still haven't seen him take that next step defensively and give 100% effort on the defensive end of the floor. LeBron is the best player in the world because he's also a top 5 perimeter defender, a top 5 passer in basketball, a top 5 rebounder for his position, and he knows how to keep his teammates involved on offense.
It's not just his offensive game either. With his size and athleticism, he should already be one of the best perimeter defenders in the game. We still haven't seen him take that next step defensively and give 100% effort on the defensive end of the floor. LeBron is the best player in the world because he's also a top 5 perimeter defender, a top 5 passer in basketball, a top 5 rebounder for his position, and he knows how to keep his teammates involved on offense.
King Baller
All-Star
Are we watching the same basketball games? Tyreke Evans is the best wing defender on the Kings right now. Perhaps James Johnson can defend the Big SF's better, but that remains to be seen.
Who on the Kings RIGHT NOW defends Kobe better than Tyreke?
KB
Haha the day we can compare Tyreke Evans to Lebron is a good day for all Kings fans. James is right up there with Kobe and Jordan and Magic in the GOAT discussion.
Still, I get what you mean, and I don't think anybody here is saying that Tyreke is blame-free. What we're questioning is why there's been a huge, huge drop off in his productivity, despite him working so much on his jumpshot and things like that. And we look at the games and we see that Tyreke isn't getting the chance to play to his strengths at all. Think about it, as much as Tyreke is a very 1 on 1 player, he was getting the ball to Omri/Garcia/Salmons for multiple wide open 3s every game. He drops off passes to JT and Cuz near the basket on a regular basis too. He's shown the ability to pass the ball and set guys up, he's shown the ability to score. So what gives? How does a minimum 16ppg 4apg guy drop to <10ppg overnight? Look at Wade and all the guys who couldn't shoot in the earlier part of their careers, you didn't find their production suddenly dropping off so badly. You didn't see them looking lost on offense. Struggling to adapt a little yes, but not completely lost.
Section 101
All-Star
First, he should have been averaging more assists than the 5 with the ball in his hands so much. Why did his PPG drop? Simple answer, defenses know how to play him now. His rookie year it's not like teams had to scout and prep much against them. Once teams caught on that they could sag, clog the lane and take away the short pass in front of him his production went down.
Since this thread is on coaching, I want to talk about that aspect:
None of the coaches of the mentioned players took the ball out of their hands during their development. Wade wasn't asked to play out of position to "see the floor better". Kobe looked quite putrid early on as well. I know, because I took joy in watching it. But the ball was always in their hands. Maybe it is the fault of Evans for being 6'6" instead of 6'4", but there's no way you can say that having Smart move him to SF has been helpful. None. Nor was his genius idea to play him off the ball. (Both are related, I guess you could say.)
As for Evans improving on his own, you can practice all you want on your own, but you're going to have to cut your teeth in game situations against real competition. We should have taken our developmental lumps last year with the ball in his hands, (Frankly, I don't care anymore if it would have been at PG or SG.) but we didn't. We chose to score more points instead, which leaves us in our current predicament. There isn't anyone on this board who can say that Tyreke's role was the same from year to year, and that, does a lot more in terms of development wrt to the team aspect than other things that have been mentioned.
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Entity
Hall of Famer
well his shooting % is only .5% percent off from his rookie year. His PPG is down less than 4 a game. Maybe the reason is his attempts is down as well from 16 to 14. 2 less attempts 3.5 less points same %. I don't see a problem in PPG. common sense tells you if a guy shoots less shots of course he will have less points.
Entity
Hall of Famer
honestly Tyreke ROY 20.1 pts 5.3 reb 5.8 ast min 37 attempts 16 45% shooting
now last year stats 16.5pts 4.6reb 4.3 ast min 34 attempts 14 45% shootin
that is pretty much the exact same stats as the year he was supposed to be at his best if you factor in min played, attempts, and %
but yet he is thought of as a failure last year?? I don't see it
now last year stats 16.5pts 4.6reb 4.3 ast min 34 attempts 14 45% shootin
that is pretty much the exact same stats as the year he was supposed to be at his best if you factor in min played, attempts, and %
but yet he is thought of as a failure last year?? I don't see it
Section 101
All-Star
Are you referring to pre-season stats? If so he is still shooting at the same rate of .42 shots per minute. His scoring is going to be down because he's playing 10+ mins less a game. If you are talking about previous year to last year, one shot less was him taking 1 less 3pt shot a game. The one impact on his PPG last year was less FT attempts.
Section 101
All-Star
Funny how I was posting in March how he was playing his best ball since his rookie year, but since he wasn't the PG in the spotlight it was a failure to people.
Brooklyn King
Prospect
this..there were plenty of times Tyreke hit the open man but they just couldn't convert..
Entity
Hall of Famer
exactly I mean the ball was in his hands alot less than it was in his rookie season and he only dropped 1 ast. the rebound can be accounted for with the 3 less min the ppg can be accounted for with less attempts and the % was the same. these stats were the saviour in 09 and a failure in 11? thats strange even for these fans.
Section 101
All-Star
That could be said for a lot teams last year after the lockout. Many of the players stopped working out because they didn't think there would be a season.
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