How Has Kevin's Return Affected The Kings?

Capt. Factorial

ceterum censeo delendum esse Argentum
Staff member
There has recently been a lot - a very lot - of speculation on what effect Kevin Martin's return has had on the Kings. Clearly the Kings have not had a great record since he has returned (2-12) and Kevin's performance (in terms of scoring, in terms of efficiency, etc.) has been sub-par given what we expect from him.

These facts have led many readers here to conclude that Kevin is not a good fit for this team, and that he is bringing the team down.

Other readers, however, have pointed out some possible mitigating factors for the Kings W-L record following Martin's return. For instance, of the 14 games since Kevin has come back, 10 have been on the road. Many of these games have also been against strong teams. Also mentioned has been a suggestion that the decline in the Kings performance (down from the near-euphoric heights we saw earlier in the season) began before Martin's return.

This latter suggestion has in some cases not gone over particularly well, and those who suggest that the Kings' slide began before Martin's return have been accused of intentionally and falsely denigrating the rest of the team (especially its performances forcing overtime against the Cavaliers and the Lakers) in order to support Kevin Martin:

And that last good game was 6 weeks ago argument is profoundly ridiculous. ... The worst part of that attempt to sully that young scrappy team is that it comes from their own alleged "fans" ... Our own alleged "fans" are so desperate to protect a single favored player they are willing to distort and trash the record of our other guys without said player.

This is a pretty serious accusation to throw around, and when I saw it I felt that those accused should at least have the opportunity of a factual defense - if the facts support their point of view, it's not a fair accusation. So I decided to see if the facts bore them out.

Of course, it's not the easiest thing in the world to determine how well a team is doing - simply looking at the win-loss record won't suffice for several reasons. First off, there's a big difference between a close win and a blowout, and a big difference between a close loss and being blown out. In addition, the quality of the opponent, and whether a game is at home or on the road will be expected to have an effect on how the team performs. Losing to a playoff team by 2 points on the road suggests a good performance, while barely beating a bad team at home suggests a poor performance.

In order to quantify this, I reasoned as follows: the expected final margin of a game can be estimated by combining three factors - the Kings' average margin ("K", -4.0 points this year), the opponent's average margin ("O", varies), and the margin associated with home court advantage ("HC", +3.3 points, calculated over the entire 2008-2009 season). Thus, the expected margin would be K - O + HC for a game at Arco, and K - O - HC for a road game. For example, the expected margin in a road game against Utah would be -4.0 - 5.0 - 3.3 = -12.3 points, we would expect to lose by about 12. The expected margin for a home game against the Warriors would be -4 -(-4.6) + 3.3 = 3.9 points, we would expect to win by about 4.

Following that procedure, I calculated the expected final margin for each of the 51 games this season, and subtracted it from the actual final margin (after four quarters) to get a measure of Margin Relative To Expected Margin ("RM", or relative margin). Here, positive RM numbers indicate a Kings performance better than expected, and negative RM numbers indicate a Kings performance worse than expected. (I should note that for the four overtime games this season, I set the final margin to 0 - the result after four quarters - so as not to "denigrate" the Kings' excellent performances in the hot-button Cavs and Lakers games, which were ultimately lost by 13 and 9 points.)

Below I present a plot of RM for each game of the season thus far. Red dots are games in which Kevin Martin played, blue dots are games in which Kevin did not play.

withwithoutmartin.png


Since the data are so noisy (and expectedly so), I calculated a running average, which I plotted as a line. This running average takes the mean of the surrounding 7 values (the value at that point, and three games on either side). Where the line is red, every game that went into the average had Martin playing. Where the line is blue, every game that went into the average had Martin out. The line is green during transitions - some games in the average included Kevin and some games did not.

As you can see from the plot, the Kings' Relative Margin plateaued about 10 games into the season between about 2-4 points above expected, then rose to a peak of about 6 points above expected about 30 games in (not coincidentally, the Cavs and Lakers games were games 28 and 29). However, following that peak, there was a stretch of about 7 games where the Kings' RM plummeted before Martin's return, and it continued to drop to about 5 points below expected as the running average transitioned across the No-Kevin/Kevin border. Following Kevin's return, the RM has actually improved back to even.

These data paint a picture that is not very compatible with the hypothesis that Kevin Martin's return is hurting the team. It appears that the Kings were in fact declining before Kevin Martin's return (those "fans" were right!), and that, somewhat paradoxically, that decline stopped - and reversed - shortly after Martin's return despite the fact that Martin has been playing poorly. Why? I certainly don't know, but I would guess that "rookie walls" and random chance have a lot more to do with it than Kevin Martin.

Thoughts?
 
only stats that matter are W-L

anything else is like a bikini - What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital
 
only stats that matter are W-L

anything else is like a bikini - What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital


:D thats so true... but other factors do go into it...

win-loss shouldnt be the only indicator... even if it was we were on a 5 game losing streak before beating denver when he came back against philly, which was the longest losing streak of the season at the time. before martin was injured we hadnt lost more than 3 games in a row with him in the roster, the team without mart did that 3 times... up until his return where the team lost the first 6... but at that time the team had been straight losers... the had a 2-8 record before martins return, both wins were against the nuggets... there is no way that martin is the entire reason why this team is so bad right now.

we ended 2009 with 14 wins... we have 17 now. this team had several chances to surpass last years win total but didnt. thats not martins fault, thats not their fault... but for whatever reason they didnt do it... this team is really bad right now with or without martin...
 
i thought it was a good read, maybe because it supported my thoughts (playing bad teams and home=winning and good teams on the road=losing) with numbers. the sad thing is no matter how much you back up your points with facts/numbers/quantitative proof, some have made up there minds and will not change there minds ignoring logic/data. they have their own theories and will stick to them no matter what because of pride, stubborness, or the fact that in the long run...they might even be right. i appreciate the time that you put into this, unlike others who just throw out a statement based on an assumption, but im sure someone will say your data is wrong or skewed or just plain ignore it because it doesnt support their argument. basically i think this thread will reinforce those who stick by kevin but dont know if it will change any minds of those blaming kevin :(
 
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There is a problem with these statistics however. Prior to Kevin's return, the losses for the most part were games where we were in the game at the end and lost by say five points. Since Kevin's return, we have already lost the game, say down 15 with five minutes left or so, then make a run during garbage time to make it appear closer than it is. There is a big difference between these two scenarios, yet it would show the same in your statistics.

And Kevin is one of my favorite players, and I want it to work out, but this is one of the situations where the statistics lie.
 
There is a problem with these statistics however. Prior to Kevin's return, the losses for the most part were games where we were in the game at the end and lost by say five points. Since Kevin's return, we have already lost the game, say down 15 with five minutes left or so, then make a run during garbage time to make it appear closer than it is. There is a big difference between these two scenarios, yet it would show the same in your statistics.


thats true, i didnt want to say it though... because well... you know. :cool:
 
Your raw value have absolutely no association in term of statistic (no positive trend and negative trend) so to apply a running average is kinda a "fluff" statistic to be honest. Especially with only a few values to use as your average. One large value one way or another and your average will be way off. So I don't think that's very sound logic.
 
There is a problem with these statistics however. Prior to Kevin's return, the losses for the most part were games where we were in the game at the end and lost by say five points. Since Kevin's return, we have already lost the game, say down 15 with five minutes left or so, then make a run during garbage time to make it appear closer than it is. There is a big difference between these two scenarios, yet it would show the same in your statistics.

And Kevin is one of my favorite players, and I want it to work out, but this is one of the situations where the statistics lie.

I knew that the "garbagetime" objection would come up. It's a valid objection, but I simply don't have access to data that would allow me to correct for it. The question is whether the garbagetime effect washes out, or if there was an actual trend for us to suffer in garbagetime before Kevin's return and to flourish in garbagetime afterwards. I can't include vague recollections in the data - these numbers are the best I have.
 
Your raw value have absolutely no association in term of statistic (no positive trend and negative trend) so to apply a running average is kinda a "fluff" statistic to be honest. Especially with only a few values to use as your average. One large value one way or another and your average will be way off. So I don't think that's very sound logic.

I didn't run a linear regression (and the data are at home) but it does look by eye like a linear fit would have a negative slope.

But I don't see why a running average is a problem here. The question is whether there has been any change in how well the Kings are playing over the course of the season, and whether those changes correspond to Martin's presence. A running average isn't a statistic, it's a descriptor. If you just fit a line (or had a very large window) it would not be possible to investigate whether Martin has had any effect. And I think that 7 games is probably a fine window - that's about two weeks of time in the NBA, and fans will certainly talk about team trends over a two-week period.

Yes, the data are noisy. You can choose whether you wish to believe the average or not. But I think the outliers in the data are important in this case - when you have anecdotal assessments of a team's performance, outliers are not just ignored, they are often stressed. So I think it's OK that the average is sometimes dragged around by outliers.
 
And was interesting to read Capt, and I thank you for the work and thought you did put into this. Funny thing is, it sort on confirmed my feelings. The only part that sort of surprised me was the uptick at the end, closer to average again.

I think the truth is, that the team wasn't made terrible or made great by Martin coming back. It just confirms my feeling that there are a lot of factors besides Martin that plays into the losing the Kings have gone through.

Things like schedule (I knew January was going to be brutal when the schedule came out), injuries, quality of opponent, rookies tiring, young players getting a lot more playing time also tiring, having a new coach, the mental effect of long losing streaks, etc.
 
And was interesting to read Capt, and I thank you for the work and thought you did put into this. Funny thing is, it sort on confirmed my feelings. The only part that sort of surprised me was the uptick at the end, closer to average again.

Thanks, Kenna! The uptick at the end surprised me as well - but it appears that we've had at best 3 "easy" games in our last 12, so any upward trend for the team would likely have been masked. It's nice to know that these data suggest that we've been improving!
 
Captain...

This is a really great analysis. What is more objective than numbers? Nothing. Of course the interpretation of the number is where subjectivity gets inserted into the equation.

The only thing I question is the validity of your “line of best fit.” (Apparently pacboy has questions about it too). How do the actual scatter points compare to the line? Are they on average 1, 2 or 3 standard deviations from the line? If it’s usually more than 1, than maybe the “running average” approach is not the best.

Unfortunately I do not really have any better ideas as statistics was never my thing.

Thanks Again Captain F.
 
There has recently been a lot - a very lot - of speculation on what effect Kevin Martin's return has had on the Kings. Clearly the Kings have not had a great record since he has returned (2-12) and Kevin's performance (in terms of scoring, in terms of efficiency, etc.) has been sub-par given what we expect from him.

These facts have led many readers here to conclude that Kevin is not a good fit for this team, and that he is bringing the team down.....
Thoughts?


Ah, don't confuse 'em with the facts! :D
 
These data paint a picture that is not very compatible with the hypothesis that Kevin Martin's return is hurting the team. It appears that the Kings were in fact declining before Kevin Martin's return (those "fans" were right!), and that, somewhat paradoxically, that decline stopped - and reversed - shortly after Martin's return despite the fact that Martin has been playing poorly. Why? I certainly don't know, but I would guess that "rookie walls" and random chance have a lot more to do with it than Kevin Martin.

Thoughts?

Thought #1: Me love me some data and for that reason you are my hero.

Thought #2: Kmart may not be hurting the team, but for 11 milion/ year you would think that he would help the team at least a little.
 
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