How good was Lionel Simmons?

[MelTurpin]

I sort of noticed him when he was a rookie/soph. He did a lot on the court, but never REALLY stood out to me. Did make Rookie 1st team in 91, though. Beat out GP, for what it's worth, in a relatively bad class.

Checking back, his numbers look like a Garnett blueprint during those first 2-3 years in the league. After that he struggled a lot with injuries, and became sort of a postboy for weird injury stories with the GameBoy injury he sustained.

Rookie:

18 pts, 1 blk, 1.4 stl, almost 9 rebounds, 4 ast, 42% Fg.

Anybody who wtached him more closely?

 

[jcassio]

The L-Train was a basketball player. He was good at many things, but not great at any one thing. Undersized at power forward, but still a good rebounder, defender and could always find a way to score. Good size for a small forward, but slow foot speed by comparison and a so-so outside shot. Really made his money close to the basket. Had great spin moves for a guy who wasn't particularly quick.

 

[pshn80]

The above description of the long and short of him is good. He was a mix it up good all around basketball player who too early succumbed to injuries. I really enjoyed seeing him play.

 

[Krunker]

He was awesome in college, http://www.goexplorers.com/news/201...ted-into-college-basketball-hall-of-fame.aspx

 

[bajaden]

Prior to his first knee injury, Simmons was right up there as one of the best young players in the league. He wasn't gifted with great athleticism, but he wasn't a terrible athlete either. His BBIQ was off the charts. He had a deadly mid-range jumper. He could post you up along the baseline and either step back, or use a very quick spin move to the basket. He rebounded well for his size. After that first injury, he was never the same player. He was still a good player, but I don't think he ever achieved his full potential.

 

[nebs]

Kind of a fun old school vid. Sort of gives you the feel of how Simmons was as a player.

 

[Gilles]

This is, what I got from this clip:
0:29 - Mitch Richmond with a semi-contested transition 3 aka junk shot. I knew, Carry learned that from somewhere.
0:57 - Olajuwon doesn't run back in transition, he kills team spirit with that!

 

[Iced Espresso]

Fantastic rebounder for size, his post game was solid, fairly tough.

Fringe Allstar max talent under the perfect circumstances.

 

[beb0p]

I remember him very differently:

Skinny, unathletic, not a good shooter, bad finisher; but he plays hard and plays within himself. A classic fringe starter putting up nice stats on a bad team. Decent rebounder, and very good rebounding his own misses. Have issues finishing over length, jump shots are very streaky, and usually broken. To compound the problem, he has no catch and shoot ability; he usually has to take a few dribble before he shoot. Has a decent post up game but too often unable to finish. He "go to" move is to back his way inside the FT line, throw a few fakes, and put up an off balance shot. He gets his shot blocked a lot. I remember he lead the league in shots being blocked at least a couple times.

To me, he is hands down the most fraustrating Kings player in that era. He is just a really odd player, imo - a skilled finese player who can't shoot. As a wing he can't spread the floor, as a player who needs the ball he didn't have enough arsenal, as a defender he is not athletic enough to be lock down; but he could do a bit of everything and he played hard. So there.

I hate the way that Simmons consistently kill the offensive flow. Mitch would get triple teamed, passed to Simmons, and instead of taking the open 18-20 ft jump shot, he'd dribble inside and get the ball smacked back in his face. Teams always left him wide open at the perimeter and dared him to shoot. He never did. I remember for a short period of time he managed to punish the defense by knocking them down, but he soon reverted back to form.

You might think his career 43.3% FG is not bad, but this is an era where good offensive players, even the wings, shoot close to or over 50% from the field.

I just remember constantly asking why can't the Kings have normal NBA players - like a SF who can shoot and dunk. I was absolutely elated when Peja arrived - finally a guy that other teams have to guard!! Wow.

Ok, I may be a bit hard on Simmons. But trust me, if you think Rudy Gay is frustrating, you will want to shoot Simmons.
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[macadocious]

He was a mix of SAR and Steve Smith without the shooting.

 

[bajaden]

I remember him very differently:

Skinny, unathletic, not a good shooter, bad finisher; but he plays hard and plays within himself. A classic fringe starter putting up nice stats on a bad team. Decent rebounder, and very good rebounding his own misses. Have issues finishing over length, jump shots are very streaky, and usually broken. To compound the problem, he has no catch and shoot ability; he usually has to take a few dribble before he shoot. Has a decent post up game but too often unable to finish. He "go to" move is to back his way inside the FT line, throw a few fakes, and put up an off balance shot. He gets his shot blocked a lot. I remember he lead the league in shots being blocked at least a couple times.

To me, he is hands down the most fraustrating Kings player in that era. He is just a really odd player, imo - a skilled finese player who can't shoot. As a wing he can't spread the floor, as a player who needs the ball he didn't have enough arsenal, as a defender he is not athletic enough to be lock down; but he could do a bit of everything and he played hard. So there.

I hate the way that Simmons consistently kill the offensive flow. Mitch would get triple teamed, passed to Simmons, and instead of taking the open 18-20 ft jump shot, he'd dribble inside and get the ball smacked back in his face. Teams always left him wide open at the perimeter and dared him to shoot. He never did. I remember for a short period of time he managed to punish the defense by knocking them down, but he soon reverted back to form.

You might think his career 43.3% FG is not bad, but this is an era where good offensive players, even the wings, shoot close to or over 50% from the field.

I just remember constantly asking why can't the Kings have normal NBA players - like a SF who can shoot and dunk. I was absolutely elated when Peja arrived - finally a guy that other teams have to guard!! Wow.

Ok, I may be a bit hard on Simmons. But trust me, if you think Rudy Gay is frustrating, you will want to shoot Simmons.
.

I'm not sure if we were watching the same player. Now if you were watching Simmons post injuries, then you saw an entirely different player from the one the Kings drafted. He had four good years, and then three miserable years where he was just a shell of his former self. He couldn't run or jump anymore. His bad knees affected his jump shot and his rebounding. Prior to his injuries, he was a very good player, and a very good mid-range shooter. I agree that he was never a three point shooter, but at that time, the three point shot wasn't as prevalent as it is now. His first four years he shot around 45% overall and averaged 17 pts a game. He also averaged 7.9 rebounds a game, which is very good for a SF. He averaged 1.4 steals a game, and 4.1 assists a game. Here is some game film of him with Mitch Richmond when he was still healthy.

 

[IfAt1st]

Classic put-up-numbers-on-bad-team guy.

Never impressed me, and I don't think the rest of the league feared him whatsoever.

 

[beb0p]

I'm not sure if we were watching the same player. Now if you were watching Simmons post injuries, then you saw an entirely different player from the one the Kings drafted. He had four good years, and then three miserable years where he was just a shell of his former self. He couldn't run or jump anymore. His bad knees affected his jump shot and his rebounding. Prior to his injuries, he was a very good player, and a very good mid-range shooter. I agree that he was never a three point shooter, but at that time, the three point shot wasn't as prevalent as it is now. His first four years he shot around 45% overall and averaged 17 pts a game. He also averaged 7.9 rebounds a game, which is very good for a SF. He averaged 1.4 steals a game, and 4.1 assists a game. Here is some game film of him with Mitch Richmond when he was still healthy.

That's not how I remembered him. He was a guy who every time he touches the ball me and my friends would say, "Oh crap, please don't shoot. Please don't shoot. Oh S***!!"

I was at a game at Arco in Simmons' 3rd of 4th year, the Kings were down by one with time running out. Mitch was triple teamed and ball came to Simmons, he took a few dribbles, faked, and released the shot. The entire arena said, "NNNNOOOOOOOOO!!!" The ball went through the net and the arena erupted. It was the only jump shot he hit the entire game. That sum up Simmons - he usually sucked but did have his moment.

His FG% in his first four year is actually 43.8%, not 45%. His career high of 45.4% might seem alright today until you realize great wing players of that era shoots over 50% from floor. Check out Chris Mullin, Penny Haraway (pre-injury), Reggie Miller, etc. Their career high season all are above 51%. Using a curve, Simmons' 45.4% is like 40.5% in today's game. That's not good.

He was never a good mid range shooter, not awful but probably below average as he can make one occasionally. He wouldn't be a starter on a good team and he probably wouldn't make the NBA if the pre-injruy Simmons were trying make it today. The fact that he was our starter and one of our "best" players during that period tells you a lot of why we sucked.
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[bajaden]

That's not how I remembered him. He was a guy who every time he touches the ball me and my friends would say, "Oh crap, please don't shoot. Please don't shoot. Oh S***!!"

I was at a game at Arco in Simmons' 3rd of 4th year, the Kings were down by one with time running out. Mitch was triple teamed and ball came to Simmons, he took a few dribbles, faked, and released the shot. The entire arena said, "NNNNOOOOOOOOO!!!" The ball went through the net and the arena erupted. It was the only jump shot he hit the entire game. That sum up Simmons - he usually sucked but did have his moment.

His FG% in his first four year is actually 43.8%, not 45%. His career high of 45.4% might seem alright today until you realize great wing players of that era shoots over 50% from floor. Check out Chris Mullin, Penny Haraway (pre-injury), Reggie Miller, etc. Their career high season all are above 51%. Using a curve, Simmons' 45.4% is like 40.5% in today's game. That's not good.

He was never a good mid range shooter, not awful but probably below average as he can make one occasionally. He wouldn't be a starter on a good team and he probably wouldn't make the NBA if the pre-injruy Simmons were trying make it today. The fact that he was our starter and one of our "best" players during that period tells you a lot of why we sucked.
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We'll just have to disagree. His bread and butter was his 15 to 17 foot jumpshot. Look, I'm not putting him in the same category with the Chris Mullins and Reggie Millers of the world. Those guys are some of the best shooters to come down the pike. How Simmons would have fared in today's world is a different question. He didn't play in todays world, and back then, at least to me, he was a solid player. He only had four good years, and we'll never know how he might have improved his game as time went on. I was a season ticket holder, and at that moment in time, one could argue that he was the second best player on the team.

Now that may say more about the team than it does Simmons. But I don't think he's as bad as your painting him out to be. He only played seven years in the league, all of them with the Kings. His last three years were a waste of time. I'd like to remember him for his first four years when he seemed like a bit of hope on a very bad basketball team. You seemed determined to create a negative picture of Simmons. Have a good day!

 

[Iced Espresso]

Classic put-up-numbers-on-bad-team guy.

Never impressed me, and I don't think the rest of the league feared him whatsoever.

Before he was injured, I recall hearing about a Simmons and Horry swap with Houston that almost happened.

 

[Iced Espresso]

Before he was injured, I recall hearing about a Simmons and Horry swap with Houston that almost happened.

Looked around was sort of surprised it was online.

http://www.thedreamshake.com/2010/5/20/1477326/dreamland-review+remembering-the

The Kings tried to trade Lionel Simmons for Horry.