How do the Kings play to strengths and still compete in a changed NBA?

[kingsboi]

They won their first 3 game with Durant at the 4 though. Honestly, Durant and Westbrook just choked. I saw lots of poor coaching down the stretch by Donovan... especially inexplicably not calling timeouts to run set plays. Westbrook and Durant are cold... have repeatedly turned it over... it's potentially the final possession of the game.... you're going to go ahead and let them jack up ANOTHER shot instead of drawing up a play?

This is not college. We see this type of attitude in a lot of college basketball games... that's why there's so many half-court buzzer beaters.

so we're blaming the coach now? Donovan did just fine IMO. This was a collective choke job, with of course some help by the Warriors playing for their lives.

 

[kingsboi]

What is our strength? Aside from one 15 game stretch where we were 3 games over 500. I have not seen anything to clearly say what our strength is or if the strength is even capable of working.

The strength WILL be to build a long, big team. Two foundations in place so far. Go from there and don't follow anybody elses route. Control what you can control and be eye to eye with the coach.

 

[King Baller]

They won their first 3 game with Durant at the 4 though. Honestly, Durant and Westbrook just choked. I saw lots of poor coaching down the stretch by Donovan... especially inexplicably not calling timeouts to run set plays. Westbrook and Durant are cold... have repeatedly turned it over... it's potentially the final possession of the game.... you're going to go ahead and let them jack up ANOTHER shot instead of drawing up a play?

This is not college. We see this type of attitude in a lot of college basketball games... that's why there's so many half-court buzzer beaters.

The Warriors are a very deep team. Even if you match their starters they still have Iguodala, Livingston, Barbosa, Ezeli, Speights, Varejao, Rush & Clark. When Westbrook and Durant went cold who was going to score?

 

[Bricklayer]

Give the ball to boogie in the paint

Acquire better outside shooters

Share the ball

Play better perimeter defence

This is really the classic answer to that question: you use the attention your big post guy brings to open up those 3pt shots. tactic that goes back 25-30 years at least.

But I also agree with those noting that Boogie's particular gifts involve using that handle as a faceup player. The way to merge those two elements, for a smart coach or a smart PG, whoever is calling sets, is to vary the attack depending on opposing personnel. Team starts the game with a big 7 footer in there to defend the post? Then you start the game having Boogie face up and attack the lumbering guy off the bounce. You get him pulled in favor of a more mobile defender? Then you start posting Boogie, not only to score, but as a passer knowing that that mobile defender is going to need help, and the help's man is going to be open,

On the other hand, as I have mentioned repeatedly over the past few months, all of this stuff is largely missing the problem. We were ok offensively last year. Indeed, have been ok offensively for almost our entire decade of lottery balls. That's not the side of the ball we have to dramatically improve if we want to compete.

 

[gunks]

I feel like Malone had the blueprint.

We were hanging with, and beating, some legit teams.... despite the roster only being 3 players deep (after Cuz, Gay, and DC it went downhill fast), as well as Malone's own shortcomings as a coach (rotations...but thats on the roster. Thanks PDA).

Rebound, get to the line, and beat the **** outta opposing frontcourts with Cuz. Oh, and DEFENSE.

Our starting 5 was a SMASHING teams. Then the bench would come in and it would go to doo doo. Then Cuz got sick....

The Joerger hire makes me think we're moving back towards bully ball. It'll be interesting to see if he tries to push the pace here. ... We all know the defense should improve dramatically.

 

[206Fan]

I feel like Malone had the blueprint.

We were hanging with, and beating, some legit teams.... despite the roster only being 3 players deep (after Cuz, Gay, and DC it went downhill fast), as well as Malone's own shortcomings as a coach (rotations...but thats on the roster. Thanks PDA).

Rebound, get to the line, and beat the **** outta opposing frontcourts with Cuz. Oh, and DEFENSE.

Our starting 5 was a SMASHING teams. Then the bench would come in and it would go to doo doo. Then Cuz got sick....

The Joerger hire makes me think we're moving back towards bully ball. It'll be interesting to see if he tries to push the pace here. ... We all know the defense should improve dramatically.

It was floating around here about Joerger wanting to increase their pace, but apparently it didn't go too well with everyone else.

I don't know that we move towards bully ball, but we definitely have the personnel in Cousins and Gay to do it... means lots of isos.

 

[Sac.1989]

This is really the classic answer to that question: you use the attention your big post guy brings to open up those 3pt shots. tactic that goes back 25-30 years at least.

But I also agree with those noting that Boogie's particular gifts involve using that handle as a faceup player. The way to merge those two elements, for a smart coach or a smart PG, whoever is calling sets, is to vary the attack depending on opposing personnel. Team starts the game with a big 7 footer in there to defend the post? Then you start the game having Boogie face up and attack the lumbering guy off the bounce. You get him pulled in favor of a more mobile defender? Then you start posting Boogie, not only to score, but as a passer knowing that that mobile defender is going to need help, and the help's man is going to be open,

On the other hand, as I have mentioned repeatedly over the past few months, all of this stuff is largely missing the problem. We were ok offensively last year. Indeed, have been ok offensively for almost our entire decade of lottery balls. That's not the side of the ball we have to dramatically improve if we want to compete.

Basically it comes down to leveraging boogies varied strengths and versitility as a big man and getting better from the perimeter.

The largest area of addresses is defense though and I feel DJs addition as coach make waves there

 

[Telemachus]

It was floating around here about Joerger wanting to increase their pace, but apparently it didn't go too well with everyone else.

I don't know that we move towards bully ball, but we definitely have the personnel in Cousins and Gay to do it... means lots of isos.

There's not a big problem with using isos if the rest of the players stay active. The problem the last few years is that when Cousins (or Gay) got the ball in isolation, everyone else stopped moving. That leaves the guy with the ball with very few options.

 

[Gilles]

I'd add one thing:

Make sure you FOUL them if you're going to put them on the line. No little girl love taps; make them realize what a hard foul is all about.

That old grandma's soft touch!

This playoffs I see the Warriors pounding the ball inside on mismatches, actually. Even isoing in the mid-range. Some styles of basketball will just never die.

One thing will never change in NBA basketball: you can win, only if you are able to constantly create mismatches on the floor. Speaking of Warriors, they have so many besides Steph, that people don't pay attention to, that it comes down to just "Steph and Klay hoist a lot of 3s".

It was floating around here about Joerger wanting to increase their pace, but apparently it didn't go too well with everyone else.

I don't know that we move towards bully ball, but we definitely have the personnel in Cousins and Gay to do it... means lots of isos.

Malone used a lot of cutting from Rudy. Iso is what Raptors and Karl's Kings were using him for.

 

[New Era]

First of all they need to call fouls when Cousins gets fouled in the paint

He averaged over 10 FT's a game last year in just under 35 minutes of action. I don't feel like looking it up but I would guess that's top 3 in the league in terms of FT's per minute played.

The reason why everybody thinks that he doesn't get calls is because there are a lot of plays where he goes to the basket hard and initiates a ton of contact but the defenders are either straight up or retreating. The NBA referees do a pretty good job on those plays.

 

[KingsFanGER]

He averaged over 10 FT's a game last year in just under 35 minutes of action. I don't feel like looking it up but I would guess that's top 3 in the league in terms of FT's per minute played.

The reason why everybody thinks that he doesn't get calls is because there are a lot of plays where he goes to the basket hard and initiates a ton of contact but the defenders are either straight up or retreating. The NBA referees do a pretty good job on those plays.

The reason why everybody thinks he doesn't get calls is that he as a big, strong guy gets treated different than most guards or wings. The amount of contact Boogie is asked to absorb is on a whole different level than the amount defenses are allowed to dish out against Harden for example.
But still drawing fouls as a strategy might turn against us come playoff time, when a lot more contact is allowed especially underneath the basket.
That's one of the reasons I'm not the biggest supporter of bully ball right now. Bullying your opponent might cause us to take a lot of low percentage shots with contact involved. But that makes our offense highly dependable on the ref's. When we don't get calls and don't have an offense that allows us to create high percentage shots our efficiency will plummet and the opposing team will get many opportunities to run and get early offense (most of the time early corner threes).

 

[ppine]

I watch the Warriors play against a team like OKC in the playoffs, and it seems like the Thunder can outplay them at least in stretches, but then a look at the score board is kind of a surprise. Part of me thinks that Golden State wins cheap by throwing up 3s from everywhere. Tradition says that you can't win championships by outside shooting, but they have proved that you can. I cannot stand the smug announcers at Golden State. But then closer examination reveals the defensive intensity they have. Even their guards are good rebounders. The team is fundamentally sound at every position and they keep coming after teams. Golden State may epitomize the New Era NBA.

Hold the Kings up next them, and our team is like a team from the 1980s. A throwback team. A dominant center, fast pace, crummy defense and erratic outside shooting. It is like watching reruns from a long time ago. The Kings could use a dose of Warriors style basketball. Finding a 2 guard that can actually shoot would help a lot.

 

[ESP47]

This is really the classic answer to that question: you use the attention your big post guy brings to open up those 3pt shots. tactic that goes back 25-30 years at least.

But I also agree with those noting that Boogie's particular gifts involve using that handle as a faceup player. The way to merge those two elements, for a smart coach or a smart PG, whoever is calling sets, is to vary the attack depending on opposing personnel. Team starts the game with a big 7 footer in there to defend the post? Then you start the game having Boogie face up and attack the lumbering guy off the bounce. You get him pulled in favor of a more mobile defender? Then you start posting Boogie, not only to score, but as a passer knowing that that mobile defender is going to need help, and the help's man is going to be open,

On the other hand, as I have mentioned repeatedly over the past few months, all of this stuff is largely missing the problem. We were ok offensively last year. Indeed, have been ok offensively for almost our entire decade of lottery balls. That's not the side of the ball we have to dramatically improve if we want to compete.

Exactly. Cousins is a big guy but he is not big enough to bully guys like Adams and Bogut. Utilize his athleticism away from the basket when playing teams with monsters that clog the middle. When playing a team like say, Cleveland. Go inside and smash Tristan Thompson into oblivion. I went to the Cleveland game and was going insane watching Cousins brick three after three while being guarded by a massively undersized big man.

I'm hoping Joerger is smart enough to realize that you have to adjust to every team you're playing. You don't necessarily have to play their game but you do have to take advantage of where you have advantages. I feel like we haven't done that for years. It's just been go out and score a bunch of points and hope the other team doesn't match.

 

[IfAt1st]

I think the Kings would do better focusing on what might beat the other 28 teams that aren't named the Warriors.

 

[gunks]

I think the Kings would do better focusing on what might beat the other 28 teams that aren't named the Warriors.

Well, I reckon if we can beat the Ws, we can beat the other 28 teams!

But I get yah..... baby steps!

 

[bajaden]

One elephant in the room that has to be pointed out as that we as Kings fans crucified Karl for the switching defense. Well the Thunder pushed the Warriors to the limit by doing exactly that. Maybe in the regular season you can get away with playing man to man most of game and no switching, but at the level they were playing the WCF that was the only way OKC was going to compete.

The system has to match the personnel. Teams that play a lot of zone, like to have tall PG's because a zone is essentially guarding an area instead of a prescribed player. The Thunder have the size in most areas to match up on a switch. The Kings were often out there with two guards that were around six fee tall. So when 6 foot Collison switches onto 6 foot 7 inche Klay Thompson, how is that going to work?

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Well, I reckon if we can beat the Ws, we can beat the other 28 teams!

But I get yah..... baby steps!

Hey man, why not? The Mavericks rode that strategy to a championship: build a contending team around their star, commit to their system, and hold steady until there's a year where the favorites all falter, and you're in position to fill that vacuum.

 

[bajaden]

It was floating around here about Joerger wanting to increase their pace, but apparently it didn't go too well with everyone else.

I don't know that we move towards bully ball, but we definitely have the personnel in Cousins and Gay to do it... means lots of isos.

I haven't heard any quotes from Joerger about increasing the pace. What I've heard from him is that he wants more ball movement, and player movement. I would imagine that the only pace he desires is in getting the ball up the court to start the offense.

 

[Livinthedream]

I watch the Warriors play against a team like OKC in the playoffs, and it seems like the Thunder can outplay them at least in stretches, but then a look at the score board is kind of a surprise. Part of me thinks that Golden State wins cheap by throwing up 3s from everywhere. Tradition says that you can't win championships by outside shooting, but they have proved that you can. I cannot stand the smug announcers at Golden State. But then closer examination reveals the defensive intensity they have. Even their guards are good rebounders. The team is fundamentally sound at every position and they keep coming after teams. Golden State may epitomize the New Era NBA.

Hold the Kings up next them, and our team is like a team from the 1980s. A throwback team. A dominant center, fast pace, crummy defense and erratic outside shooting. It is like watching reruns from a long time ago. The Kings could use a dose of Warriors style basketball. Finding a 2 guard that can actually shoot would help a lot.

Trying to match the NBA's 'new style' in the GSW is what leads teams to draft Nik Stauskus. What the Warriors did was recognize that their 2 best players were their guards with crazy range and built around that. The smartest thing a team can do is play to their strength, as the thread title suggests.

The trend always favors the teams that are winning. For years everyone wanted to be like the Spurs, but couldn't. Now everyone wants to be the Warriors, but can't.

 

[funkykingston]

I think people tend to overthink these sorts of things.

How do the Kings beat the Warriors? They don't.

So far no team in the NBA has been able to topple the Warriors in the last two years and for a perennial lottery team to focus on how to beat the best team in the league is a bizarre place to start anyway.

The goal should be, how do the Kings finally win more games than they lose?

And that, to me at least, is a question with a pretty straight forward answer. It starts on a page like this where you can sort team statistics.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2016.html

If you sort them by opponent FG% you'll find that of the 10 worst teams in terms of Opp FG% 9 of them were lottery teams with only the Pistons barely making the playoffs. In fact, all six of the worst teams last season occupy the first 6 slots in terms of worst opponent FG%.

And on the other side, of the best 10 teams in the league in terms of Opp FG%, 8 of the 10 were playoff teams with only Chicago (who barely missed the playoffs and are still largely the roster that Thibs made a defensive powerhouse) at 7 and surprisingly the Knicks at #10. The first 5? Atlanta, the Clippers, Golden State, San Antonio and Oklahoma City.

In a lot of ways is really is that simple. You want to improve? Fix the defense. Increase the effort and the results on that end and the team will get better.

As for the offense? If you're building around Cousins you get guys that compliment him. An athletic, low usage, defensive PF. 3& D perimeter players at least one of whom is a great defender. A complimentary secondary scorer. A playmaker either at PG or possibly at one of the wing positions. A stretch 4. A solid backup center. A sixth man who can get hot in a hurry. A change of pace PG.

We can argue how many of those pieces the Kings have (WCS fits the first one pretty much to a T) but that's the type of roster you want to build around Cousins.

Is Rudy good enough to be a #2 guy on a good team? If not, can the Kings somehow get a #2 guy so he can play the role of the #3 scorer? Or what could they get for him in trade?

Are Rondo's poor/reluctant shooting and lack of effort on defense too big of liabilities to work around and succeed?

Who can they get to be a starting SG?

How important is a stretch 4?

What should they do with their draft pick and caproom?

All questions that need to be answered, but the reality is that most of this is pretty common sense. Improve the team defense, get players that compliment Cousins, including a legit second option (this is the toughest task if the determination is that Rudy Gay isn't that guy) and a solid bench and win games. Beat the Warriors? No. Not be in the lottery for the first time in what feels like forever? Absolutely.

 

[Blastoff]

The Warriors are going to be a playoff team for a long time, but the Kings just need to be in position to be contending (re-build complete) when the Warrior's "unbeatbable" window closes (When their supporting cast gets broken-up by free agency). It's not like we have to wait until Curry retires to make a run...though it would be nice if someone started looking into whether he wants to play Minor League Baseball for a couple of years.

 

[Bricklayer]

I haven't heard any quotes from Joerger about increasing the pace. What I've heard from him is that he wants more ball movement, and player movement. I would imagine that the only pace he desires is in getting the ball up the court to start the offense.

I think the key thing is understanding that what Joerger calls pace and what we have been calling PACE!!! are not likely yo be the same thing.

During Joerger's three years in Memphis their pace was 30th, 26th, and 27th in the league. He wanted to play at a faster pace than that, but his old lumbering crew did not and vetoed it. So him coming to Sacto with a younger more athletic group is going to let him play with more pace than HE is used to, but for us its almost surely going to be a significant slowdown after all the nonsense of the last couple of years around here. If you are used to playing at the league's slowest pace, even coaching an average pace team is going to feel outrageously pacey.

 

[bajaden]

I think the key thing is understanding that what Joerger calls pace and what we have been calling PACE!!! are not likely yo be the same thing.

During Joerger's three years in Memphis their pace was 30th, 26th, and 27th in the league. He wanted to play at a faster pace than that, but his old lumbering crew did not and vetoed it. So him coming to Sacto with a younger more athletic group is going to let him play with more pace than HE is used to, but for us its almost surely going to be a significant slowdown after all the nonsense of the last couple of years around here. If you are used to playing at the league's slowest pace, even coaching an average pace team is going to feel outrageously pacey.

We are in agreement!

 

[Kingster]

How do you beat the Warriors? Easy peezy: Add a couple of All Star talents. All this talk about complementing Cousins and have some non-versatile defensive players who can hit an outside shot gives you the 8th slot in the playoffs and a quick exit. Given the putrid performance over the last decade, maybe we should hang banners up in the new arena for such an achievement. But including the Kings in the same sentence as the Warriors is fantasy-land unless there a huge talent infusion by management. The current minimally talented Kings team, no matter how complementary and well coached, is going to be around the .500 mark, plus or minus 10%, on an annual basis, imo.

 

[IfAt1st]

First off, the Kings DO need to add talent.

But they shouldn't be compared to the Warriors. Anyone doing that is wasting effort. The title of the OP is about competing in the changed NBA, not beating one of the best teams in the history of the game.

Also, I believe that with a well-fitting coach (and competent SG), the Kings would have competed for the 5th spot in the West last season, even with the roster as is.
This team was just behind the Clippers in potential and ability last season - they aren't that far off from being competitive, and their upper-ceiling is certainly not 8th spot (if they can just solve their SG abyss).

 

[ESP47]

I honestly think that if Joerger was our coach last year, we would have contended for the 8th spot. Probably wouldn't have squeaked in there but at least the games would have mattered for the last month of the season.

If you take the same team we had last year and add a SG who can handle the ball, dish out 3.5 assists/gm, shoot at an average clip and defend at an average clip, we make the playoffs.

 

[upinsmoke]

We should sign K. Bazemore he's a capable wing who I think would fit right in here. He's going to be looking for his 1st big deal in his career and isn't going to turn down a generous offer. Not only can he legitimately play the 2 but if Mclemore finally has his breakout season can play the 3 and truly be a threat in the open court.

 

[twslam07]

We should sign K. Bazemore he's a capable wing who I think would fit right in here. He's going to be looking for his 1st big deal in his career and isn't going to turn down a generous offer. Not only can he legitimately play the 2 but if Mclemore finally has his breakout season can play the 3 and truly be a threat in the open court.

Kent Bazemore is 6'3.75" without shoes with a 6'11.75" wingspan while weighing 200 lbs. He really has no business playing SF on a regular basis. He'd be best at SG.

 

[upinsmoke]

Kent Bazemore is 6'3.75" without shoes with a 6'11.75" wingspan while weighing 200 lbs. He really has no business playing SF on a regular basis. He'd be best at SG.

Bazemore played some 3 in Atlanta but OF COURSE he doesn't play SF in extended mins and is best at SG. I was simply stating against certain match ups it's something coach can kick the tires on.

 

[ppine]

On paper the Kings are starting to look like the Battle of the Big Men. Meanwhile they have no real PG except for DC. The 2 spot has been a disappoint for years. I can't see this team going anywhere yet again unless they find some guards to lead the team. I hope there is a plan in place for a trade or FA.