Here's how i look at it.....

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Gary said:
I would rather have Potapenko play D than Brad. Neither will win awards, but Potapenko vs. Brad if scored like a baseball game would end in a 1-0 loss for Brad.

For sure, that's not even fair, Potatoe Head would kill Bad Brad. O.k. sorry, I know Brad is (still) on the team and he has been great for us in times past. I know I shouldn't beat him up as bad.

On with the topic:



I liked your post about having a vocal coach, which Rick seemed to be in the playoffs a little more than he normally is. I grew up watching the Bears with Mike Ditka screaming his head off and making it all worth it when the Bears won in the mid 80's, I'm for a coach that has a open door policy, is fair, but also screams his lungs out at his player when they deviate from the plan. You need so wear a # of hats and not be too crazy or too laid back. Players more than anything respect a coach that is fair, tells it like he sees it, rewards for effort and accomplishment, and doesn't choke you when you don't quite hit the winning shot because we are all imperfect like it or not. ;)
 
Troy said:
For sure, that's not even fair, Potatoe Head would kill Bad Brad. O.k. sorry, I know Brad is (still) on the team and he has been great for us in times past. I know I shouldn't beat him up as bad.

On with the topic:



I liked your post about having a vocal coach, which Rick seemed to be in the playoffs a little more than he normally is. I grew up watching the Bears with Mike Ditka screaming his head off and making it all worth it when the Bears won in the mid 80's, I'm for a coach that has a open door policy, is fair, but also screams his lungs out at his player when they deviate from the plan. You need so wear a # of hats and not be too crazy or too laid back. Players more than anything respect a coach that is fair, tells it like he sees it, rewards for effort and accomplishment, and doesn't choke you when you don't quite hit the winning shot because we are all imperfect like it or not. ;)
Agreed fully, well said man. The best coach I can come up with that fits all of what you said is Bobby Knight. He may not be the favorite of the players at the time, but he does all the things that you said and every player that has played for him knows he's one of the best.
 
uolj said:
You're allowed your opinion, even if your reasoning doesn't make sense. It is my opinion that Adelman has done a great job while he's been here and his influence has allowed the team to overachieve. There is no way I'll ever get sick of my favorite team doing better than expected.

Now that he's gone, I'll look forward to the next coach and hope that whoever that is does an equally good job, even if he goes about it differently.

Does this make sense:
I'd rather go to the playoffs 5/8 times and win a championship than go 8/8 times and have no hardware.
 
Magruder said:
Does this make sense:
I'd rather go to the playoffs 5/8 times and win a championship than go 8/8 times and have no hardware.

So aside from "someone not named Adelman", who is the coach we're going to pick up that is guaranteed to do that?
 
Rick Adelman Kings era:
325 wins 199 losses .620
8 straight playoff appearances
34 playoff wins

ALL Previous Kings coaches combined:
386 wins 680 losses .362
2 playoff appearances
1 playoff win


Those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it. Not to mention to lack all pretense of perspective.


As an aside, the playoff win %s of a number of the high profile coaches people have talked about replacing Rick:

Nellie .452
Brown .529
Karl .458
Wilkens .449
 
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Adelman is a terrific coach, there's no doubt about that. He's an extremely likeable man as well.

But you have to partially fault Adelman for the playoff chokes year after year. He's certainly not all to blame, but there are a precious few other coaches out there that would instill enough confidence/discipline into their teams that they wouldn't choke.

However, just like the beloved ex-Kings before him that were full of success but never took the team all the way, Adelman will be sorely missed.
 
Variant said:
So aside from "someone not named Adelman", who is the coach we're going to pick up that is guaranteed to do that?
Theres no such thing as a "gaurantee". But look at the job Avery Johnson has done. Someone of his caliber would be nice. Terry Porter would be a good choice. Byron Scott, if he was available. Actually, anybody but Don Nelson.
 
Bricklayer said:
Rick Adelman Kings era:
325 wins 199 losses .620
8 straight playoff appearances
34 playoff wins

ALL Previous Kings coaches combined:
386 wins 680 losses .362
2 playoff appearances
1 playoff win

If Adelman came to the Kings a year earlier, do you think that number would have been 9? He had one of the best teams in NBA the last 8 years, of course he would get 8 straight playoff appearances. Is there a coach out there who wouldn't have made the playoffs with those Kings teams the last 8 years?

Okay I agree that there will be one champion every year and not winning the NBA championship shouldn't necesssarily translate to bad coaching. But wouldn't you guys agree that it is a coaching failure when you have a team good enough to win 50+ games every season, but not even making the NBA finals once? and only one WC final?
 
SoupNazi said:
8 straight playoffs = 0 championships

Change is good people...take it easy on all the "Oh Rick thank you" crap. As far as im concerned he choked in all the big games every single year. He deserves the axe.

Firing Rick Adelman for not bringing home a championship is like trading away Dominique Wilkens because he isn't Michael Jordan.

Just who do you expect to be introduced as the new head coach next year? Greg Popavich? Phil Jackson? Sorry, not happening.
 
forza kings said:
If Adelman came to the Kings a year earlier, do you think that number would have been 9? He had one of the best teams in NBA the last 8 years, of course he would get 8 straight playoff appearances. Is there a coach out there who wouldn't have made the playoffs with those Kings teams the last 8 years?

Okay I agree that there will be one champion every year and not winning the NBA championship shouldn't necesssarily translate to bad coaching. But wouldn't you guys agree that it is a coaching failure when you have a team good enough to win 50+ games every season, but not even making the NBA finals once? and only one WC final?
Of course? So you think Adelman had nothing to do with making those teams as good as they were? And if that's your measure of successful coaching, most NBA coaches are far bigger failures than Adelman [edit] by your measure. I think his peers would say Adelman is one of the most successful coaches in league history.
 
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forza kings said:
If Adelman came to the Kings a year earlier, do you think that number would have been 9?

Doubtful, but they would have won more, and they wouldn;t have quit (which was the story of that 98 season).

forza kings said:
He had one of the best teams in NBA the last 8 years, of course he would get 8 straight playoff appearances. Is there a coach out there who wouldn't have made the playoffs with those Kings teams the last 8 years?

Many.

Many Kings fans remain delusional about how good their teams have been. This coach took piles of losers and rejects and molded them into a power. He also made the team one of the most resilient in the league. Of all those seasons, there are perhaps 2-3 that are playoff years for a bad coach. And that's only if the bad coach doesn;t affirmatively mess things up.

forza kings said:
Okay I agree that there will be one champion every year and not winning the NBA championship shouldn't necesssarily translate to bad coaching. But wouldn't you guys agree that it is a coaching failure when you have a team good enough to win 50+ games every season, but not even making the NBA finals once? and only one WC final?

Ever hear of injuries? How about Shaquille O'Neal?

Coaches do NOT make the NBA Finals without their top players. As in almsot ever. We never ONCE fielded our full team in our best years. End fo story.
 
SoupNazi said:
8 straight playoffs = 0 championships

Change is good people...take it easy on all the "Oh Rick thank you" crap. As far as im concerned he choked in all the big games every single year. He deserves the axe.
That is just silly. Change may be good. Change can also be disastrous. That doesn't mean you never take the risk and change, but you have to be ready to accept the consequences, good or bad. A new coach may work out great or it could be disastrous. At this point, the decision's made and we get to wait and see which way the scale tips.
 
Bricklayer said:
Rick Adelman Kings era:
325 wins 199 losses .620
8 straight playoff appearances
34 playoff wins

ALL Previous Kings coaches combined:
386 wins 680 losses .362
2 playoff appearances
1 playoff win


Those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it. Not to mention to lack all pretense of perspective.


As an aside, the playoff win %s of a number of the high profile coaches people have talked about replacing Rick:

Nellie .452
Brown .529
Karl .458
Wilkens .449
Brick what is the point in trying to use LOGIC to argue with the Fire Adelman camp? It has never been about logic or a ballanced view of the facts. Blaming Rick has always been about one thing-he did not win the Championship, or that nights game. This is a perspective that does not necessarly asume the one coach is good and 29 others suck beceause it does not look that far. It simply says we did not win the championship therefore we have to change coaches. It asumes change is good and remains blind to the risks of changing.

The evidence is in the fact that they welcome the end of Adelman with no idea who will replace him, the most irrational position posible.

So argue if you like but don't expect to have any impact. I personaly will wait and see who turns up as the new coach and try to ignore the irational ravings of those who aplaud firing Rick.
 
HndsmCelt said:
Brick what is the point in trying to use LOGIC to argue with the Fire Adelman camp? It has never been about logic or a ballanced view of the facts. Blaming Rick has always been about one thing-he did not win the Championship, or that nights game. This is a perspective that does not necessarly asume the one coach is good and 29 others suck beceause it does not look that far. It simply says we did not win the championship therefore we have to change coaches. It asumes change is good and remains blind to the risks of changing.

The evidence is in the fact that they welcome the end of Adelman with no idea who will replace him, the most irrational position posible.

So argue if you like but don't expect to have any impact. I personaly will wait and see who turns up as the new coach and try to ignore the irational ravings of those who aplaud firing Rick.

As someone in the "fire" Adelman camp, I disagree. While there are people on this board (like any other) that irrationally dislike him, I think most of us have utilize as much logic and basketball knowledge as the pro-Adelman fans (if not more at times). It isn't about only not winning a championship, though its odd that his supporters criticize that argument while shouting about his number of wins as a reason to keep him.

Its about all of the things the team needs and whether or not he brings those things. Is he a good coach? Yes. Has he helped the team get to where they are? Yes. Is he the right person to take them farther? In my opinion (and more importantly the Maloof's) no. Its not that we don't have an idea of who to replace him with, its that its irrelevant. I think there are a number of coaches that MAY be suitable replacements, but its hard to say until you see the team in action for a season or two. Adelman had 8 years and the team had peaked with his kind of leadership. I say its time to see what a new leader can do.
 
Do you people not get it? Half of us have said to pursue an Avery Johnson type Terry Porter. Look at the Mavericks. They lost by 2 to SA, then blew them out by 20+. Both games IN SA. We got ran in game 1 becuz Rick didn't have them prepared, and he didn't do a good job of settling them down once it was apparent they were rushing things. The problem with you homers is you are KINGS fans, and thats all. The ones who want Rick gone are BASKETBALL fans and understand that Rick took this franchise as far as he could. It's done. Live with it. It's for the best.
 
Magruder said:
Do you people not get it? Half of us have said to pursue an Avery Johnson type Terry Porter. Look at the Mavericks. They lost by 2 to SA, then blew them out by 20+. Both games IN SA. We got ran in game 1 becuz Rick didn't have them prepared, and he didn't do a good job of settling them down once it was apparent they were rushing things. The problem with you homers is you are KINGS fans, and thats all. The ones who want Rick gone are BASKETBALL fans and understand that Rick took this franchise as far as he could. It's done. Live with it. It's for the best.
Oh we get it, belive me. But do your selves a favor and just say getting rid of Rick FEELS good and you have a good feeling about the coach to be named later. It's an eaiser position to defend.
 
Magruder said:
Do you people not get it? Half of us have said to pursue an Avery Johnson type Terry Porter. Look at the Mavericks. They lost by 2 to SA, then blew them out by 20+. Both games IN SA. We got ran in game 1 becuz Rick didn't have them prepared, and he didn't do a good job of settling them down once it was apparent they were rushing things. The problem with you homers is you are KINGS fans, and thats all. The ones who want Rick gone are BASKETBALL fans and understand that Rick took this franchise as far as he could. It's done. Live with it. It's for the best.

Magruder, I would be willing to bet anything I, and many on this board, know a lot more basketball than you, so just stow the pathetic chest beating.

Allow me to educate you a little: Rick Adelman has been to the Finals twice. Three times really if you count 2002 where the WCF was clearly the true Finals. In the entire league coaching right now there are exactly four coaches who have been further (i.e. won it all). Pop, Riley, PJ, and Larry Brown. The last of which just turned in one of the all-time worst coaching performances in embarrassing himself and the Knicks. Which is another way of saying that Rick Adelman can take you to the mountain as well as anybody but the unavailable HOFs. Indeed has take his teams to the mountain as often as any coach not named PJ or Riley.

Meanwhile, Terry Porter is a young unproven Adelman-disciple. Princeton priciples, offensive minded, a single playoff appearance under his belt.
 
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Yeah, definitely Ricks fault when Divac slaped that ball back to Horry to take a championship out of our mouth... give me a break!
 
Merdiesel said:
Yeah, definitely Ricks fault when Divac slaped that ball back to Horry to take a championship out of our mouth... give me a break!

You're right. That proves Rick is a good coach.
 
sdballer said:
You're right. That proves Rick is a good coach.

It proves something that that play, blind luck, is the difference between your team and the 3x (2x at the time) NBA Champions led by three HOFs.
 
Bricklayer said:
It proves something that that play, blind luck, is the difference between your team and the 3x (2x at the time) NBA Champions led by three HOFs.

Agreed. An unlucky play but I still don't think it has anything to do with this argument.
 
VF21 said:
EVERYONE who doesn't go on to the championship and win is going to have a LOSING percentage in the playoffs. Hello?

I will refrain myself from comment on the whole Adelman thing, but the statement above is mathematically incorrect.
Anyway, it is not even that important, what is more important is that the Kings have managed to lose to the following teams since 1999: Jazz, Lakers, Timberwolves, Sonics, Spurs, Mavericks. I think that Phoenix is the only team that we played that we didn't lose against in the playoffs, and that's because we only played them once.
 
Interesting times for the Sacramento Kings. Very surprised that the Maloofs pulled the plug on RA and concerned about where that leaves Petrie. Grieving the loss of Pete Caril as well. He was a distinquished presence on our coaching staff.

As for Rick Adelman i would be lying if i said that i am happy about the change (although i have directed frustration at him on occasion) but one thing keeps coarsing through my mind. And that is the impact Ron Artest had on this team. How this team changed when Ron started 'directing' if you will because that's exactly what it felt like to this observer. It's hard to know precisely how much influence Rick had on player's motivation although i know he was a capable coach in terms of knowledge and experience (players got better w/ Sac not just because of Rick's player coach mentality but because of the style of play). But being a "motivator" is, in my mind, one of the crucial elements of a great coach.

I am not saying, necessarily, that Rick floundered there, i am just noting that he has been the coach for some time and the WAY the Kings were playing before Ron Artest and the WAY they were playing after Ron felt somewhat different.

Ron appears to be a motivator. For some reason the Kings were influenced by him. That may be the nature of the beast. It's hard not to like Greg Popovich. And now Avery Johnson looks like part of that mold.

I can't say for sure. I'm just trying to figure it out too...
 
Nazman said:
Interesting times for the Sacramento Kings. Very surprised that the Maloofs pulled the plug on RA and concerned about where that leaves Petrie. Grieving the loss of Pete Caril as well. He was a distinquished presence on our coaching staff.

As for Rick Adelman i would be lying if i said that i am happy about the change (although i have directed frustration at him on occasion) but one thing keeps coarsing through my mind. And that is the impact Ron Artest had on this team. How this team changed when Ron started 'directing' if you will because that's exactly what it felt like to this observer. It's hard to know precisely how much influence Rick had on player's motivation although i know he was a capable coach in terms of knowledge and experience (players got better w/ Sac not just because of Rick's player coach mentality but because of the style of play). But being a "motivator" is, in my mind, one of the crucial elements of a great coach.

I am not saying, necessarily, that Rick floundered there, i am just noting that he has been the coach for some time and the WAY the Kings were playing before Ron Artest and the WAY they were playing after Ron felt somewhat different.

Ron appears to be a motivator. For some reason the Kings were influenced by him. That may be the nature of the beast. It's hard not to like Greg Popovich. And now Avery Johnson looks like part of that mold.

I can't say for sure. I'm just trying to figure it out too...
Ron was motivating because he had the Freedom and space by his coach in Rick adleman To express his views on the Game. In Indiana he was supposed to be one of the top guys, But he didn't have the Freedom to Motivate the way he had the Freedom to display this new found leadership skills of his that he expressed here in Sacramento. It all depends on the situation, He came here not really Wanting to come to Sacramento, He and His agent came in with all kind of Demands as well as allot of Baggage that they needed to be accomadated with blah blah blah.


Rick allowed Ron artest Freedom of Expression in his game and Ron artest Responded in a positive fashion using his Expression on the court in the game and not in soap opera. Ron open up his leadership skills to the freedom style of coaching, The dude wanted out of Indiana Because he was tired of Being Restricted in the Rick carlise's system of constant play calling, strict post up sets and no 1 on 5 sets Ran for himself


Ron got the chance to Go Tracy McGrady and kobe Bryant 1 on 5, He got the oppurtunity to free lance with his Dribble and keep the ball for himself for 15-20 Seconds on the shot clock,Ron got the chance to play point guard,something he Craved in his Basketball Dreams, Wanting to play like Kobe Bryant and Mcgrady and if you listen to his comments about how he compares himself to Duncan and others you will see this Desire of his.



Ron had much to do with the Turn around of this season as Did the maloofs, but it wouldn't have had work if you didn't have Rick adleman. Rick adjusted to the Trade because he is a personality coach, He knew Ron would Respond well to the freedpm of putting the ball in his hands and allowing him to create as a Guard. You have a Different coach in there, Ron wouldn't be allowed to Go 1 on 5 and Bogged down the offense on the fly, A Carlimeso or any other dude wouldn't give Ron the patience or basketball on the run like this, They would make him concentrate of Defense and force him back to this role player that he hated Being.


Ron's energy had a positive Effect because of the Freedom, Ron wasted Two seasons in Indiana because of the super discpline and lack of Freedom,It had a Negative Effect on himself and the Team because he felt Restricted as a player, He wanted more, He wanted to display his point guard skills and 1 on 5 game, He exploded because he felt he was just used like a Role player.


A strict discplined Coach will have a Negative Effect on ron artest, These coaches like PJ and Van gundy will run the ship how they want to run it, They will yell, Be over Demanding, They won't let Ron Run wild with the basketball, You won't see him bringing the basketball up like a point guard, like Kobe and Mcgrady, Ron wants to play this way, They will have Ron in the post and playing Defense like a Role player. This will have a negative Effect on Ron and his Attitude,Rick gets no Credit with having teh clarivoyance in Seeing what type of dude Ron is.

Ron will see as everyone else what Effect Rick Adleman has had with this Team and The players Before and After who came to this organization.
 
Magruder said:
VF21, you've got your blinders on becuz you are such a big Kings fan you really don't see what they do wrong. I have played and coached hoops for a long time, and I usually say out loud what rick should do before he does it. I call timeouts at my t.v. about 1 or 2 plays before it actually gets into Ricks head. I tell my wife who rick should put in, and about half of the time I am 1 step ahead of him. The rest of the time he just sits there with his palms up not doing anything, and its those times I wish Ricky were someone else who wasn't afraid to "try something different". Well, now I get to see someone else. I just hope the Maloofs realize the best person for this job is an Avery Johnson type Terry Porter.
Agreed, it's pretty obvious to Basketball fans who like the Kings that Adelman doesn't make smart decisions. Some people are blinded by homerism and their love for the team, others see it and tell it like it is and they can't take it. It's also pretty apparent that when you think you can't have a winning record in the playoffs unless you make the finals..well..let's not go there lol. I agree with everything you've said Maruder, you're right on man, don't listen to the people who say you aren't right.
 
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