Help For LeBron, Cap Room For Us

Bricklayer · May 31, 2009

Or in my MUHAHA variation, "Help For LeBron, Then Snag His ***"

A wacky thought:

1) So, as we have just discovered LeBron still needs help. Even after one of the best individual performances in a playoff series in NBA history, it was still not enough.

2) The Cavs will have a bunch of enders next season. Big Ben is one of them and has even annoounced he may consider retiring, although he has $14million reasons not to.

3) The Cavs will have the #29 pick in the draft (I think the NBA champion still automaticlaly gets the last one (#30). They have #46 in the second round.

4) Multiple problems for Cleveland became evident in the Orlando series -- lack of a true wingman/second star (can't help); lack of power on the front line (can't help); lack of a mobile 4/3 to match the wacky Hedo/Rashard combo (can help); lack of a rangy full sized 2 (can help); lack of bench production (can help).

So:

Andres Nocioni $7.5mil (the mobile 4/3 + strong bench guy) -- through 2012/13
Beno Udrih $6.1mil (our charge for doing this service) -- through 2012/13
Francisco Garcia $5.8mil (the rangy 2 + strong bench guy) -- through 2012/13
----------------------
$19.4mil

for

Ben Wallace $14.0mil ender
Aleksandar Pavlovic $4.95mil ender
#29 pick
--------------------------------
$18.95mil

Leaving our salary situation next year:
Kevin Martin $10.18mil (4 years)
Ben Wallace $14.0mil (ender)
Kenny Thomas $8.55mil (ender)
Aleksandar Pavlovic $4.95mil (ender)
Spencer Hawes $2.33mil (rookie deal)
Jason Thompson $2.03mil (rookie deal)
Donte Greene $0.87mil (rookie deal)
#4 pick (rookie deal)
#23 pick (rookie deal)
#29 pick (rookie deal)
#31 pick (rookie deal)

And leaving us somewhere in the range of $30million under the cap for the great 2010 summer of mega free agents, wiht one borderline star in the hand, and a bunch of young talent on rookie deals. Throw in another guaranteed top 10 pick, have enough cap room to pretty much offer TWO guys max money, and try to sell them on coming to town together to create an instant contender.

As an aside, I like Cisco and Noc as really our two ballsiest leader types on the team and normally am not eager to throw them into things. But they are 28/29, and this is a swing for the fences scenario. Note also that I assume the Cavs would like to use those enders to get another star, but they have so few other resources as to make that rather unlikely, and I don't think they can wait.

Dime Dropper · May 31, 2009

Really like this idea. Would certainly help both teams out. I guess it depends on whether the Cavs would want to abandon the hope for another star in '10. As well as that, I doubt Petries love for Noc has just vanished.

As an aside, if this were to go down, there would be a strong case for us to draft Williams. I think he'll be a much better player than Garcia, and he is a leader. Good character guy, plays tough defense. Great athlete and passer. Perfect replacement.

Again, if this did go down, ideally you could be looking at a draft of;

#4 Rubio
#23 Williams
#29 Collison
#31 Casspi

That's upgrading the PG and adding some depth there, too, along with replacing Cisco/Noc with younger guys who have more talent. Not to mention the cap space.

Thumbs up. Smart thinking.

NewMonkey · May 31, 2009

I'd do it in a minute, but I don't think Cleveland does. It doesn't give them what they really need - a real #2 guy. If they get that guy, everything else they do is (mostly) unimportant. Why go for the scraps when you might get the whole turkey?

asakkings · May 31, 2009

Mo Williams is actually a decent #2 but with this trade they'll get some size on the wings which is something they are sorely lacking. I would do this trade in a heart beat but I dont think Cleveland will commit to that many long term contracts in case Lebron leaves and they have to rebuild.

steelevt · May 31, 2009

yeah im having a hard time believing cavs would do this. though its the right idea, give them help while we get under the cap, it seems like a win-win. but the players we give them might not seem valuable to them. mo williams has the potential to be the #2 but didnt really fit the bill as scottie to jordan. kobe had gasol, melo had billups, dwight had both lewis and hedo. i think the cavs are looking for another "star" that is as good as mo williams if not better and i dont think cisco or noc falls into that category. if they just want to deepen the bench then they might go for it.

kupman · May 31, 2009

This plan would be awesome if the Cavs did it. Then, in the ironies of all ironies it would be the greatest plan of all time if we used all those enders and $$$ to snag King J in 2010.

Pipe dream yes, but hey, it is TDOS.

I would still be one cloud 9 if we used all that $$$ to snag Chris B.

bozzwell · May 31, 2009

Hats of to you Brick.

The best personnel/trade proposal ever. Realistic, eminently doable (Cle getting just Noce would make it doable, Cisco pushes it into CLE salivating territory) and we still get _better_ end of the deal (cap room galore with just Kevin's deal as serious money on the books).

bozzwell · May 31, 2009

kupman said:

With all that cap room in '10 Bosh might be our worst case scenario! Works for me...

SacKings7 · May 31, 2009

Wow, this is awesome. Somebody email Petrie right away

Vlade4GM · May 31, 2009

I'm sure cleveland is hoping to do more with Wallace's expiring than Nocioni, Udrih, and Garcia.

bozzwell · May 31, 2009

Vlade4GM said:

Sure they are. But if the offer is out there, and they don't manage to swap Ben's expiring and picks for a legit all star (possible, but really, really hard) they can do much worse then address ALL their shortcomings from Orlando series in one fell swoop.

Arby's Roast Beef · May 31, 2009

I think Cleveland's problem lies deeper than that--they really need a certified star, not another medley of role players. And if Cleveland does this, they'd be hampered down--we are sending our overpaid role players to them, and I don't think this would bring them over the top. That being said, you're right--they do need a wingman in the worst way, because Wally's deteriorating, Pavlovic just isn't that talented and their trio of combo guards (Mo, West, and Gibson) just don't have quite the height to play taller wings (as the Orlando series showed).

I can imagine them liking Nocioni--he's basically another Anderson Varejao, this time at the SF position and with three point range, so if that's the case they can let Varejao leave (he's asking for $10 mil this offseason, and by no means is he worth that much anyway). Boston supposedly wanted him at the trade deadline from us, so despite the cash strapped onto him he does have value for playoff teams. Garcia can function as another spot up shooter who LeBron can drive and kick to, but I think in their offense he'd be rather ordinary, but at least he has length to bother shooters.

But between the fact that they are only getting role players who are getting up there in age (both players are nearing 30), who are not necessarily a sure thing to bring them over the top, and all that cash they're taking in, I think they'd reject the deal. Danny Ferry has been desperately trying to go the star or near-star route to find LeBron help--he wanted Michael Redd a few years back, he got Mo last year, and he nearly got Shaq at the deadline--so between that I don't think he's going to go for any ordinary role players like the ones we have to offer. He also has an affinity for has-been stars, like Ben Wallace and Wally World. So I think he'll want to strike gold here if he's going to take back a lot of money, rather than to invest it on role players.

Big Cuz 15 · May 31, 2009

this is a great deal for us! noc is a glue guy any team would love to have. i think they might be able to reel in some better talent with those expirings tho..

gunks · May 31, 2009

I dunno if 2 more bench grade role players are really going to put the Cavs over the top. I mean, thats all that team is....A bunch of benchers and Lebron (ok, Mo is decent).

Can you imagine Bron Bron's reaction to the news of this trade if it went down?
"Well LeBron, we finally got you help."
"Who? Amare? Bosh?"
"Better! Andres Nocioni and Francisco Garcia!"
"..."

That being said...I Looooove this trade from our perspective. Anything that free's us up some money so Petrie can do his thang. I just dont see the Cavs doing it. Also, I'd be psyched if we can get Big Ben. Even if he's old, busted, and not getting resigned. That dude is one of my favorite players.

kingsnation · May 31, 2009

Idk, I think Noc would be a great fit for that team. Certainly, it wouldn't be the final trade for them but they wouldn't be giving up much here.

gunks · May 31, 2009

It isnt a hugely unbelievable trade.

...You know, I see them doing something like this AFTER they make a bigger move.

Needless to say, unless Lebron has the patience of KG, he's probably bolting in 2010 if the Cavs dont try to give him a more legit roster next season.

kupman · May 31, 2009

So this deal does look a little sweet from our end and I doubt that the Cavs would do it. However, what if switched-out Garcia and put in Kmart instead?

The Cavs may do it because they probably have 1 last chance for a ring with Lebron. Lebron + Kmart would really put them in the hunt for that ring.

Crazy from our end? I do not think so. I love Kevin. However, I still think he is our best trade bait given his scoring ability. However, he has missed 50 games in the past 2 years and plays poor defense. Plus, if we could re-sign McCants we would still have a strong offensive 2 (who would probably play better "D" and hopefully would not be hurt as much). It would give us all that extra cash to sign an All-Star player as the center piece of Rubio (if we get him), McCants, Hawes, Thompson, Garcia and whatever draft picks pan-out.

SacTownKid · May 31, 2009

Whoa, the Kings get killed talent wise. We aren't getting LeBron so crippling our talent pool more than it already is would be wasteful.

dbfish · May 31, 2009

Bricklayer said:

Or in my MUHAHA variation, "Help For LeBron, Then Snag His ***"

A wacky thought:

1) So, as we have just discovered LeBron still needs help. Even after one of the best individual performances in a playoff series in NBA history, it was still not enough.

2) The Cavs will have a bunch of enders next season. Big Ben is one of them and has even annoounced he may consider retiring, although he has $14million reasons not to.

3) The Cavs will have the #29 pick in the draft (I think the NBA champion still automaticlaly gets the last one (#30). They have #46 in the second round.

4) Multiple problems for Cleveland became evident in the Orlando series -- lack of a true wingman/second star (can't help); lack of power on the front line (can't help); lack of a mobile 4/3 to match the wacky Hedo/Rashard combo (can help); lack of a rangy full sized 2 (can help); lack of bench production (can help).

So:

Andres Nocioni $7.5mil (the mobile 4/3 + strong bench guy) -- through 2012/13
Beno Udrih $6.1mil (our charge for doing this service) -- through 2012/13
Francisco Garcia $5.8mil (the rangy 2 + strong bench guy) -- through 2012/13
----------------------
$19.4mil

for

Ben Wallace $14.0mil ender
Aleksandar Pavlovic $4.95mil ender
#29 pick
--------------------------------
$18.95mil

Leaving our salary situation next year:
Kevin Martin $10.18mil (4 years)
Ben Wallace $14.0mil (ender)
Kenny Thomas $8.55mil (ender)
Aleksandar Pavlovic $4.95mil (ender)
Spencer Hawes $2.33mil (rookie deal)
Jason Thompson $2.03mil (rookie deal)
Donte Greene $0.87mil (rookie deal)
#4 pick (rookie deal)
#23 pick (rookie deal)
#29 pick (rookie deal)
#31 pick (rookie deal)

And leaving us somewhere in the range of $30million under the cap for the great 2010 summer of mega free agents, wiht one borderline star in the hand, and a bunch of young talent on rookie deals. Throw in another guaranteed top 10 pick, have enough cap room to pretty much offer TWO guys max money, and try to sell them on coming to town together to create an instant contender.

As an aside, I like Cisco and Noc as really our two ballsiest leader types on the team and normally am not eager to throw them into things. But they are 28/29, and this is a swing for the fences scenario. Note also that I assume the Cavs would like to use those enders to get another star, but they have so few other resources as to make that rather unlikely, and I don't think they can wait.

Put a blindfold on the Cavs and pull the trigger. With the #4 pick and a top free agent I would actually make it a point to pay to watch the Kings again.
But I'm not holding my breath.
Besides, with that much youth who are they going to hire to change the diapers.

Gary · May 31, 2009

SacTownKid said:

The trade is for the cap space in 2010. It's not a talent for talent swap unless you consider who we will be able to sign in 2010.

If Lebron doesn't stay in Cleveland there is no reason Cleveland does this trade though.

Aenadin · May 31, 2009

gives us another extra pick... we can pair it up with the 31st to move up pick who ever we want..

steelevt · May 31, 2009

Gary said:

and if he does stay in cleveland, how are they gonna pay him and another "star" with so much cap room going to a bunch of mediocre players that we dropped on them. i just dont see why cleveland would do this. of course all the kings fans are for the trade, and based on theory its not lopsided, but if i was a cavs fan and saw this trade go through, id be trying to sell my lebron cavs jersey on ebay as soon as possible cuz he'd be gone the next year.

Bricklayer · May 31, 2009

Gary said:

You've got the purpose of this trade reversed -- the entire idea (for Cleveland) is for Cleveland to have enough success so that LeBron DOESN'T leave. Its not as if they were THAT far from the promised land either. Another two 12-15ppg type shooter/scorers replacing non-entities might do it. Maybe.

As an aside, LeBron getting a star wingman is a nice platitude, but how does that work? Cleveland has enders, but no other tradeable assets. When we talk about getting a Bosh in Sacramento we talk about using a good young PF, or a Top 5 pick or both or whatever. Cleveland has none of that. They've got enders. One young undersized PF who might be a solid bencher someday and who did not play at all in the playoff run, and really late #30/#40 type picks. Not even Memphis gives up a star for that type stuff. Yet if they don't do SOMETHING to strengthen the squad, LeBron might be gone next year. I see them as desperate to make a move. There is no planning for "what if LeBron leaves". Everything is about making sure he doesn't. He's the franchise.

ParniValjak · May 31, 2009

I love this idea.

Then after Cavs fail to get the holy grail we offer LeBron the max and the max to one of the other marquee FAs like Amare or Bosh and we are back in business baby!

Hawes
Amare
LeBron
Martin
Rubio

Sweet!

mdme · May 31, 2009

Čarolija said:

Email this to LeBron, so King J can make this happen.

Hey LeBron, we can guarantee you a ring in 2010 if you do this....

KevinSalvadori · May 31, 2009

bozzwell said:

Anyone else think CLE might see Garcia having the potential to pull a Turkoglu for them in next year's playoffs? I do. That deal would be awesome for both sides (in my opinion), and I see the only drawback being Petrie abdicating his love for Noc, and CLE thus being duped into taking excess contracts with the big one still a question mark. Although they need some semblance of a core if he does leave, to thus avoid being the new T-Wolves.

SacTownKid · May 31, 2009

Gary said:

I'm saying since the odds are very, very slim that we land LeBron, let alone two max players, it's better to stock up on as much talent as we can in hopes to swing a deal one day, or in hopes that the team will improve on it's own in time.

LPKingsFan · May 31, 2009

SacTownKid said:

Agree with you that 2010 FAs are a pipe dream, but the talent we're shipping out in this deal isn't going to improve much on it's own. They're all already at or around their peak years.

VF21 · May 31, 2009

SacTownKid said:

I agree. And I'm still convinced Nocioni will surprise people. I love his heart and his hustle - and his willingness to get in and get his hands dirty, so to speak.

Garcia is a great player to have on our bench, which we're desperately going to need.

Maybe I'm just incredibly homeristic - I know, big shock - but I'm liking what Pertrie is doing. I'm really looking forward to our draft picks and seeing a little more of the picture that is his vision revealed for the rest of us to see.

KevinSalvadori · May 31, 2009

VF21 said:

Me too, and I don't think it's homeristic at all. Nocioni, if nothing else, can land 28-40 minutes a game here some nights and is in control of his own reputation. That alone can promise big things potentially. As to Garcia, he brings energy, points, and situational defense off the bench- valuable to any team but ESPECIALLY for a contender. Whether for us, the Cavs, or anyone, we have a great piece there.

And I think the odds could still be good that Petrie lands someone LIKE a Ben Wallace this offseason- big contract, coming off a down year, potential upside but unknown dedication at this stage. We have the right pieces to make a move like that, and could use a veteran of that caliber with a young team.

Help For LeBron, Cap Room For Us

Don't Make Me Use The Bat

All-Star

Bench

Bench

All-Star

Starter

Starter

Starter

Starter

All-Star

Starter

Starter

All-Star

Hall of Famer

All-Star

Hall of Famer

Starter

Hall of Famer

Bench

All-Star

Starter

All-Star

Don't Make Me Use The Bat

All-Star

Bench

Bench

Hall of Famer

All-Star

Super Moderator Emeritus

Bench