tradepeja
Starter
I'm not sure if you are merely being over-the-top sarcastic or really don't see what you just did there.
Hedo Turkoglu
- Thread starter =LarryLegend=
- Start date
I'm not sure if you are merely being over-the-top sarcastic or really don't see what you just did there.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
No he's not much "better" than Salmons...but he's a much better and more versatile teammate. He plays almost every position, he comes off the bench as well as starts. He can play without the ball. He can create for others and run an offense. He is in all ways a much more useful player. And he's a good guy too. There is not a team in the league that wouldn't want him on it. He fits everywhere.
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RE: Bricks post,
Lots I disagree with. One main disagreement being the perception that this team is unlikely to once again be among the worst in the league next year. The young bigs still give up as much if not more than they get, and I don't see that changing in the immediate future. A resurrected Red Auerbach isn't going to teach these guys to play defense in one years time. Additionally, the other bottom-dwellers, imo, are better situated to win more games next year than we are. Washington, with a healthy Arenas should be much better; Ok. City, possessing a guy with a chance at eventual super-stardom in Durant, is already clearly better; even the Clippers, it could be argued, have more in the cubbard than we do. I don't want to get into a semantic battle as to what "prime shot" at a top pick means, but this team, as currently constructed, could easily be a bottom five team next year, and i believe bottom two or three. Better coaching could help, yes, but imo the impact head-coaches have on games is a bit overstated. Give even the Motley-crew of coaches we have had in the last few years better talent and suddenly they would appear a heck of allot smarter/more competent.
Regarding the Eddie Jordan comment-- he may in fact be able to take a team to .500, (the stretch of years where he reached the playoffs surely supporting said claim) but the Wizards going 1-10 to start this season and Jordan finding himself unemployed after that stretch, doesn't seem to imply he has a magic potion to raise our similarly talent starved team from the ashes. The only goal of this franchise should be to contend for a championship, and the only way that is ever going to happen is if we can acquire a superstar. The odds in the draft may not be so great, but at least it is a chance. You gotta play the cards you're dealt, as the saying goes.
Regarding the Maloofs reengaging--this is a good thing, how? The taxpayers have spoken and, at this point, it seems the fate of any potential arena deal will be worked out in backrooms by bureaucrats and businessmen, and not the Kings fan base.
Regarding Hedo as "special case"-- The ties to the golden years are irrelevant to what kind of impact Hedo can have on this team in the record column, and more importantly, on placing the Kings back on the road to relevancy. The long term answer to the attendance problems isn't bringing back aging former stars to provide short term spikes to ticket sales, but for the Kings to put a product on the floor that achieves national spotlight on its own merits, instead of chasing the ghosts of eras gone by.
The old cliché about taking one step back so you can later take several steps forward, finds its opposite in the potential signing of Hedo. All the goodwill engendered by bringing back Hedo will be both minor and short lived--the warm and fuzzies won't last when, after the losses once again start to pile up, fans realize the team has just spent its resources on a) a player who is 30 and whose statistics are in decline(take a moment and compare Hedo's stats this year to last) and b) in giving said player his contract, we have lost the ability to make an impact free-agent signing when we are again ready to truly matter. Even accepting the premise that we won't be bad enough to nab another Top 3 pick, losing the financial flexibility to take on a contract-- say next year at the trade deadline as teams attempt to join the Lebron, Amare, etc. sweepstakes-- would be a bitter pill.
The comparison between potentially signing Hedo and the signing of Vlade doesn't work imo. Leadership and fostering camaraderie (Hedo hasn't shown anything close to what Vlade did, even with the Hornets before he came to sacto) aside, Vlade's statistical production (double-double big-man), and the fact that he played a position with far fewer talented players than the small forward position of todays NBA, renders the comparison impotent. Now, I agree with the idea that if we can get a "catalyst" piece (a Vlade, Doug Christie) we should look into it, but, other than thinking Hedo is not that guy, the cost would simply be to great. As for the Barry and Mad Max types-- I give Petrie my full permission to use the league minimum exemptions in whatever fashion he sees fit.
The "see how the current players would fit the roles of the former great Kings teams"-- yes I clearly see it, as I am sure the organization does now and will when they inevitably make a push for Hedo. The most important point, however, is that we don't have Webb, the special talent that we can build around that makes it all work. Some might play the crystal-ball card on me (how dare you imply JT isn't the next KG, what are the lottery numbers, blah blah. ..) but I think JT's peers are players like Dale Davis and Joe Smith, good solid big guys but certainly not transcendent talents. If we manage to acquire a Bosh or Amare, maybe Hedo would be worth a second look (l would still probably prefer someone who brought more defense in either case) but the order of acquiring a Hedo before one of the aforementioned names seems exactly backwords.
My final point is that is makes very little sense to invest as heavily in the small forward position as Brick would presumably have us do. Hedo at 7+mil(escalating most likely) Noc at 8mil per(shrinking), Cisco and 6mil per, so that puts us at 21million invested at that position, with not a Lebron or even a Carmello among them? This would effectively strangle us financially. While all these guys would have value to the right teams, this team is not the right place for them at this point. They are "winners" in the sense that they are the kind of guys who flourish next to superstars. Conversley; together, as a platoon of super-role players on a team devoid of said superstar, they would only help assure that this franchise will not have the means of digging itself out of the hole it is now in.
Sorry if I got a bit carried away
Lots I disagree with. One main disagreement being the perception that this team is unlikely to once again be among the worst in the league next year. The young bigs still give up as much if not more than they get, and I don't see that changing in the immediate future. A resurrected Red Auerbach isn't going to teach these guys to play defense in one years time. Additionally, the other bottom-dwellers, imo, are better situated to win more games next year than we are. Washington, with a healthy Arenas should be much better; Ok. City, possessing a guy with a chance at eventual super-stardom in Durant, is already clearly better; even the Clippers, it could be argued, have more in the cubbard than we do. I don't want to get into a semantic battle as to what "prime shot" at a top pick means, but this team, as currently constructed, could easily be a bottom five team next year, and i believe bottom two or three. Better coaching could help, yes, but imo the impact head-coaches have on games is a bit overstated. Give even the Motley-crew of coaches we have had in the last few years better talent and suddenly they would appear a heck of allot smarter/more competent.
Regarding the Eddie Jordan comment-- he may in fact be able to take a team to .500, (the stretch of years where he reached the playoffs surely supporting said claim) but the Wizards going 1-10 to start this season and Jordan finding himself unemployed after that stretch, doesn't seem to imply he has a magic potion to raise our similarly talent starved team from the ashes. The only goal of this franchise should be to contend for a championship, and the only way that is ever going to happen is if we can acquire a superstar. The odds in the draft may not be so great, but at least it is a chance. You gotta play the cards you're dealt, as the saying goes.
Regarding the Maloofs reengaging--this is a good thing, how? The taxpayers have spoken and, at this point, it seems the fate of any potential arena deal will be worked out in backrooms by bureaucrats and businessmen, and not the Kings fan base.
Regarding Hedo as "special case"-- The ties to the golden years are irrelevant to what kind of impact Hedo can have on this team in the record column, and more importantly, on placing the Kings back on the road to relevancy. The long term answer to the attendance problems isn't bringing back aging former stars to provide short term spikes to ticket sales, but for the Kings to put a product on the floor that achieves national spotlight on its own merits, instead of chasing the ghosts of eras gone by.
The old cliché about taking one step back so you can later take several steps forward, finds its opposite in the potential signing of Hedo. All the goodwill engendered by bringing back Hedo will be both minor and short lived--the warm and fuzzies won't last when, after the losses once again start to pile up, fans realize the team has just spent its resources on a) a player who is 30 and whose statistics are in decline(take a moment and compare Hedo's stats this year to last) and b) in giving said player his contract, we have lost the ability to make an impact free-agent signing when we are again ready to truly matter. Even accepting the premise that we won't be bad enough to nab another Top 3 pick, losing the financial flexibility to take on a contract-- say next year at the trade deadline as teams attempt to join the Lebron, Amare, etc. sweepstakes-- would be a bitter pill.
The comparison between potentially signing Hedo and the signing of Vlade doesn't work imo. Leadership and fostering camaraderie (Hedo hasn't shown anything close to what Vlade did, even with the Hornets before he came to sacto) aside, Vlade's statistical production (double-double big-man), and the fact that he played a position with far fewer talented players than the small forward position of todays NBA, renders the comparison impotent. Now, I agree with the idea that if we can get a "catalyst" piece (a Vlade, Doug Christie) we should look into it, but, other than thinking Hedo is not that guy, the cost would simply be to great. As for the Barry and Mad Max types-- I give Petrie my full permission to use the league minimum exemptions in whatever fashion he sees fit.
The "see how the current players would fit the roles of the former great Kings teams"-- yes I clearly see it, as I am sure the organization does now and will when they inevitably make a push for Hedo. The most important point, however, is that we don't have Webb, the special talent that we can build around that makes it all work. Some might play the crystal-ball card on me (how dare you imply JT isn't the next KG, what are the lottery numbers, blah blah. ..) but I think JT's peers are players like Dale Davis and Joe Smith, good solid big guys but certainly not transcendent talents. If we manage to acquire a Bosh or Amare, maybe Hedo would be worth a second look (l would still probably prefer someone who brought more defense in either case) but the order of acquiring a Hedo before one of the aforementioned names seems exactly backwords.
My final point is that is makes very little sense to invest as heavily in the small forward position as Brick would presumably have us do. Hedo at 7+mil(escalating most likely) Noc at 8mil per(shrinking), Cisco and 6mil per, so that puts us at 21million invested at that position, with not a Lebron or even a Carmello among them? This would effectively strangle us financially. While all these guys would have value to the right teams, this team is not the right place for them at this point. They are "winners" in the sense that they are the kind of guys who flourish next to superstars. Conversley; together, as a platoon of super-role players on a team devoid of said superstar, they would only help assure that this franchise will not have the means of digging itself out of the hole it is now in.
Sorry if I got a bit carried away
DoDiGaG0
Bench
1. He can play SG and PF but he's really suited for SF..
2. He USED to come off the bench, the guy said he wants a MAX contract, good luck convincing him to become a 6th man. Salmons used to come off the bench too w/o problem @ Philli.
3. He is a good shooter and can create, but gets wild and is sort of selfish.. hes not a #1 scoring option and is in no way going to turn us into a playoff contender... Watch and see what happens when they play boston and he is the "go to guy" for Orlando.
4. He's old, our core is young, maybe he'll add 10 or 12 wins, but is that really worth the price? wouldn't u rather lose those 10 or 12 and get the #1-4 pick instead of #7-10 if were going to have a bad season anyways?
tradepeja
Starter
Not true. He's a point forward. For the magic he plays SG/SF position but with a lot of PG and PF duties. He is all over the court.
Salmons sucked coming off the bench. Well, he just flat-out sucked at Philly. He became the player he is now while in Sacramento. When he was signed to the MLE, this board shat a brick. By the time he was traded he was an extremely underpayed player.
All the way off. He's barely a good shooter, with a career FG% of 42, but he is far from selfish. He has averaged 5 APG the last 2 years at orlando. Playing SF. Point forward or not, that impressive if your last name isn't James. Thing is, we don't need a shooter or a #1 scoring option. Okay, we do, but in signing Hedo that wouldn't be the things we are going after. We'd be going for his leadership, solid d, and playmaking ability. We'll get our scorers and shooters through the draft and trades.
Okay, he's NBA "old." But, his game relies nothing on speed and almost zero on power and strength. He's a tall and talented player, with little athleticism. These types have extreme longevity in the league as not only do they tend to receive less beatings and the inevitable injuries, but they just don't have the tools to begin with that age takes away.
And yes I'd rather get a #7-10 next year than a #1-4 because that would mean we're making progress and not just tanking for tanking's sake. Also, it would likely mean the Kings would get to stay in Sacramento. If we're looking at a top 4 draft pick 365 days from today, we'll likely be looking at an even emptier Arco Arena.
sidney
Starter
If we can't use the cap space to get another high lotto pick OR Sessions (should be plan A and B IMO)
Sign and Trade
Hedo 9-10M
Redick 3M expiring
for
Nocioni 7.5M
We can take on more salary since we are under the cap and it gets them under the tax. In exchange we don't have to deal with Nocioni's long contract anymore. This way we just pay the difference between Nocioni and Hedo contracts (3M?) and end up with a real piece rather than Nocioni.
I wouldn't want Nocioni AND Hedo AND Garcia. That's major star money at SF for no major star.
Sign and Trade
Hedo 9-10M
Redick 3M expiring
for
Nocioni 7.5M
We can take on more salary since we are under the cap and it gets them under the tax. In exchange we don't have to deal with Nocioni's long contract anymore. This way we just pay the difference between Nocioni and Hedo contracts (3M?) and end up with a real piece rather than Nocioni.
I wouldn't want Nocioni AND Hedo AND Garcia. That's major star money at SF for no major star.
FakeInjury
Bench
I would not like to have HEDO back, specifically because of his back. He isn't known for his durability unlike Nocioni, and the kings are only in the market for extra durable players after being shafted throughout the years by players who couldn't or wouldn't take proper care of their bodies. Vlade smoked ciggarettes, Webb and J-will and Miller smoked pot, Bibby had his dime crew and who the h-ll knows what they did. and Artest couldn't pass a drug or steroid test or feed his dogs himself. Peja was personally against weight lifting and being a celebrity, which is why he left Sacramento for an even smaller town, where the expectation of winning is less than it was here. If Petrie doesn't think that this is his fault for aquiring these guys, he is more of a tool than i thought. I wouldn't put it past Petrie to pick Hasheem thabeet with the 1st pick to specifically spite ME.
coolhandluke
Starter
This is the greatest post in the history of this board. We should "retire" it, preferably along with its writer.
FakeInjury
Bench
I am the thread killer, you are a fun killer. where there is fun you must kill it.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
I've heard that shock theropy isn't pleasant, but there's a slight chance it might help.
coolhandluke
Starter
Hey, you got a bite. What are you complaining about?
Kingsroots
G-League
I think it's time to bring this back up especially after watching how Hedo has performed this postseason. I would love to have Hedo back in a Kings uni. He has become a pretty clutch shooter and would provide a great veteran presence. Hopefully he opts out and we make a run at him.
Showtime
Starter
Signing Hedo on the open FA market isn't going to happen. His stock has risen this season, and he is playing on a contender. Not only will the Kings not be able to compete as far as finances, but he won't want to go from a ECF team to the bottom of the west.
The VERY best scenario for getting him is a sign-and-trade, which isn't likely.
Seriously, I know ppl here are kings fans, but let's get real. It's a pipedream if you think the Kings can and might get him and that he would want to come back with this state of the team.
The VERY best scenario for getting him is a sign-and-trade, which isn't likely.
Seriously, I know ppl here are kings fans, but let's get real. It's a pipedream if you think the Kings can and might get him and that he would want to come back with this state of the team.
Kings Faithful
Starter
Yeah he won't want to come here...
He is exactly the kind of clutch shooter we need though... we are a Rubio (if he's as good as advertised) and a Hedo away from 8th seed contention in my opinion...
He's been here and he has fond memories of the guys who were here then. He doesn't, however, have the kind of emotional attachment that might actually have lured him to return as a FA. And it's probably for the best. As mentioned above, we could simply NOT afford him and I don't think Orlando is going to let him go...
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Yep, this has been shifting as this season went along. Before the season, yeah, maybe. He had had the big year, but many people hadn't caught on to him yet (some still stubbornly refuse to). By midseason it still looked remotely possible because while the Magic wewre winning, and while Hedo was their clutch guy, they were also hemorraging cash and there was the maybe angle just on finances. But now, after we finished up a worst in the league season, the Magic kept steady for a monster 59win season,and Hedo has repeatedly stepped forward this postseason with huge memorable clutch shots...its jsut hard to see even the cash strapped Magic letting a guy that important to everything go. And its harder and harder to see Hedo wanting to leave such a successful situation, for both he and hte team. Returning back to his first team sounded like a possible attraction at one point (at least allowing us to outbid random teams also after him), but it simply can't compare to his situation now.
=LarryLegend=
Starter
Hedo is playing awesome, but I was hoping we would get Rubio because I dont think Hedo is a franchise player, which he would be on the current Kings.
Kingsroots
G-League
Wow, there are a bunch of pessamists here. I like how people say "it's not going to happen," when really you don't know either. We have already heard earlier this year, per ESPN...
"The best piece of player-movement gossip gleaned on my recent trip to Sacramento for Vlade Divac's jersey retirement involves one of Vlade's favorite ex-teammates.
Hedo Turkoglu.
Plugged-in sources say that making a run at bringing Turkoglu back to Sactown -- given Orlando's well-chronicled concerns about re-signing last season's NBA Most Improved Player award recipient and staying under the luxury tax -- holds definite appeal to the Kings.
But going ahead with a legit bid for Turkoglu all depends on whether Sacramento decides it can afford to spend this summer.
It remains to be seen if the increasingly cost-conscious Maloof Brothers, who authorized a flurry of payroll-slashing deals before the Feb. 19 trade deadline, are prepared to use their projected $7-plus million in salary-cap space to assemble a long-term offer to the 30-year-old.
Turkoglu is expected to opt out of the final year of his current contract with the Magic, worth $7.4 million next season, to become a free agent July 1. He signed a six-year deal with Orlando in 2004 worth $39 million but is regarded as a much more mature and dangerous player than he was when he left Sacramento in the summer of 2003 in a three-team deal that landed Brad Miller with the Kings and sent Turkoglu to San Antonio.
Players adept at running Pete Carril's Princeton offense -- with Carril back on Sacramento's bench and expected to retain a role of prominence with the Kings whether or not they rehire Eddie Jordan as their next full-time coach -- are sure to interest the Kings going forward. Although he acknowledges that Sacramento's young big men are raw, Carril has said that Spencer Hawes and Jason Thompson have the potential to develop into a tandem resembling the Divac-Chris Webber duo if they keep progressing.
Which should make it even easier to understand why trying to bring the popular Turkoglu back has been discussed."
My opinion is that it's a real possibility. If we somehow got Rubio, signed Hedo, then signed a backup center... That is a good offseason.
"The best piece of player-movement gossip gleaned on my recent trip to Sacramento for Vlade Divac's jersey retirement involves one of Vlade's favorite ex-teammates.
Hedo Turkoglu.
Plugged-in sources say that making a run at bringing Turkoglu back to Sactown -- given Orlando's well-chronicled concerns about re-signing last season's NBA Most Improved Player award recipient and staying under the luxury tax -- holds definite appeal to the Kings.
But going ahead with a legit bid for Turkoglu all depends on whether Sacramento decides it can afford to spend this summer.
It remains to be seen if the increasingly cost-conscious Maloof Brothers, who authorized a flurry of payroll-slashing deals before the Feb. 19 trade deadline, are prepared to use their projected $7-plus million in salary-cap space to assemble a long-term offer to the 30-year-old.
Turkoglu is expected to opt out of the final year of his current contract with the Magic, worth $7.4 million next season, to become a free agent July 1. He signed a six-year deal with Orlando in 2004 worth $39 million but is regarded as a much more mature and dangerous player than he was when he left Sacramento in the summer of 2003 in a three-team deal that landed Brad Miller with the Kings and sent Turkoglu to San Antonio.
Players adept at running Pete Carril's Princeton offense -- with Carril back on Sacramento's bench and expected to retain a role of prominence with the Kings whether or not they rehire Eddie Jordan as their next full-time coach -- are sure to interest the Kings going forward. Although he acknowledges that Sacramento's young big men are raw, Carril has said that Spencer Hawes and Jason Thompson have the potential to develop into a tandem resembling the Divac-Chris Webber duo if they keep progressing.
Which should make it even easier to understand why trying to bring the popular Turkoglu back has been discussed."
My opinion is that it's a real possibility. If we somehow got Rubio, signed Hedo, then signed a backup center... That is a good offseason.
Showtime
Starter
Just because the Kings want him doesn't mean anything. The Kings want Lebron, but does that mean they will get him? Absolutely not.
Again, there are two main issues that you aren't taking into consideration:
1. the money. Hedo has said he wants to opt out now so that he gets a new deal before they restructure the salary cap and get a new CBA. He's 30, and will probably look for at least a 4 year deal at around 35 mil. With him shining on the biggest stage atm, other teams have now taken notice and will probably be in a better position to nab him than Sacramento.
2. the draw. From Hedo's perspective, if Sac offers a similar deal as another team in a better situation, then it probably doesn't matter if Sac can be competitive, because they are at the bottom of the west. Again, he is coming off a ECF team (with a possibilitiy of a championship still ahead of him), and I doubt he would just cash in to start all over. He wants money, but he also wants to win.
So again, the most likely scenario for getting Hedo would be to offer Orlando a sign-and-trade deal where Orlando gets talent and possibly draft picks in compensation for letting Hedo go, and Hedo gets a bigger deal because the Kings can offer more after letting some of their contracts go in the deal. There's very little likelyhood of Hedo choosing Sac unless he gets an offer he can't refuse. If Sac is in the ballpark of a similar offer from a better team, then why would he come here?
It's irrational thinking by fans that leads to disappointment. Many fans considered the #1 pick a given, and that Blake would be coming to town. They probably didn't even know about the past drafts not going to the worst teams. Oops, now they are pissed. Many fans are now putting all their hopes into getting Rubio, and that scenario is just built for disappointment. If things don't go well with him, than many fans here will be pissed again. Don't give your hopes up.
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rainmaker
Hall of Famer
Hedo won't come here. Right now Orlando is palying great, and should be up 2-0 on cleveland. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see orlando knock off cleveland, and Hedo will be a major reason why. Hedo is playing himself into a big-time contract right now which we can't afford. And even if we could, why would he leave orland? They've made it this far with out their allstar pg. I can't imagine hedo wanting to leave that situation and come to a team that will be rebuilding for at least the next few years.
Sptsjunkie
Starter
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