Heat get Payton...

[Kings113]

Miami Herald - According to Payton's agent Aaron Goodwin, 15-year veteran point guard will sign a one-year contract with the Miami Heat , which were looking to fill a void at the backup PG position.

Payton flew into Miami late Wednesday and will take a physical and sign the minimum $1.1 million deal Thursday. The Heat are yet to use a portion of their Mid-Level Exception.

For the second time in his career, Payton will join a Shaquille O'Neal-led team in hopes of winning his first title.

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/37343/20050921/gary_payton_to_sign_with_miami/


Man, still haven't used their MLE. I bet they don't even use it... Be interesting and fun to watch this team, for a few reasons.

 

[Lamar_Odom]

I hope Shaq wins another and take GP with him to the championship.

 

[KingKong]

Heat is starting to look like the Lakers of 03-04. We all know what happened there.

 

[Gargamel]

Heat is starting to look like the Lakers of 03-04. We all know what happened there.

They remind me more of the 99-00 Blazers. We all know what happened there too. Nothing has really changed for them though. Their new guys need to stay out of Wade and Shaq's ways. I think they have enough talent to scrape by Detroit, but SA is even more deep (and proven to play well together).

Year 2 in Miami's title plan is in vain. Unless Jeff Gillooly waits for Duncan behind the curtain........

 

[Ray Allen34]

Miami are nothing like the Lakers of a few years ago. They are alot deeper and have much options at PF. Miami should win the east and we could see another 7 game series in the finals again. This time with the Heat and S.A.

 

[Coach]

The Heat last year were one game and a Dwayne Wade rib injury away from meeting San Antonio in the NBA Finals. The team chemistry was great, the offense was efficient, their two best players got the most touches, and everyone knew his role.

Then they decide to acquire dumb, selfish prima donnas Jason Williams, Antoine Walker, and Gary Payton and ruin the whole thing.

Sorry, that's what I think. They will self destruct this year.

 

[Jerryaki]

The Heat last year were one game and a Dwayne Wade rib injury away from meeting San Antonio in the NBA Finals. The team chemistry was great, the offense was efficient, their two best players got the most touches, and everyone knew his role.

i think it was a little more than the injury, it was also dwyane wade rushing to get his shots in game 7. inexperience did them in a bit.

and what's GP doing? he's walking into a situation where he's not gonna be able to play with the ball, just like he did with the lakers.

 

[Gargamel]

Then they decide to acquire dumb, selfish prima donnas Jason Williams, Antoine Walker, and Gary Payton and ruin the whole thing.

Sorry, that's what I think. They will self destruct this year.

I agree with the first part, but I think they have enough talent to get out of the east even if they are just on the border of self-destructing. Imo, they won't self-destruct based on their personalities. If they do, it'll be because their games don't mesh. All those who don't follow the program can be replaced in that lineup (that wasn't the case with the 2004 Lakers).

Payton won't be much of a factor. It's Walker that should be a concern. He's never been reined in as far as his outside shooting goes, and he's a dominant ball handler for a big forward. Williams is there primarily for his PG skills and that means he's another guy to keep the ball out of Wade's hands. I think their biggest task is finding a way to keep Shaq/Wade's touches equal to what they were last year while the newbies contribute their skills in addition to. How Walker fits in is the biggest ? mark.

 

[Bricklayer]

They would have been better off resigning Jones.


As for the other moves -- fact is that the Heat last year were a two man show and absolutely pathetic otherwise. Completely lacking in impact talent after you got beyond Shaq and Wade. Either guy was off, the team crumbled. Barely better than Detroit, maybe not as good as a healthy Indiana, and with Shaq aging, no margin at all. Would have been no guarantees if they stood pat this year and the window would have been shrinking all the time as Shaq approached 35. Now they've got depth of talent at least. Posey should help -- classic roleplayer. Jones WOULD have helped, but he's gone. If they're smart Walker should come off the bench to minimize his interference with Shaq/Wade and to give them some pop off the pine where they had none last year. If Williams sticks to passing, it will work out ok.

Getting Payton though, on top of the other moves, is just pressing it. You figure Williams and Walker were already going to be a bit of a risk and require significant management. And now one more ego is in town, and Payotn isn't any more suited to play alongside Wade and Shaq than he was Kobe and Shaq -- needs the ball, not an outside shooter.

Up until now I have generally ignored the fanboy reports that maybe Riley was going to come back down from the rafters, can Van Gundy, and take over the team himself. But with so many egos in town now, I can actually see it happening. Might need somebody with mega-stature to snap the whip.

 

[6th]

They would have been better off resigning Jones.


Getting Payton though, on top of the other moves, is just pressing it. You figure Williams and Walker were already going to be a bit of a risk and require significant management. And now one more ego is in town, and Payotn isn't any more suited to play alongside Wade and Shaq than he was Kobe and Shaq -- needs the ball, not an outside shooter.

Up until now I have generally ignored the fanboy reports that maybe Riley was going to come back down from the rafters, can Van Gundy, and take over the team himself. But with so many egos in town now, I can actually see it happening. Might need somebody with mega-stature to snap the whip.

Exactly!! Payton will add (big time) to the ego problem. Shaq had enough ego for that team and it worked when Wade constantly told everyone how wonderful Shaq was to play with on a team.

I don't think Jason will be a big deal, but Walker and Payton will be giant pains in the team ***. I do not see Miami beating out Indiana for the East. They just have too much that will get in their way,

It certainly looks like Riley wants to step back in and coach. I like Stan Van, but he will not be able to handle this many egos on one team.....unless maybe he enlists Shaq's help.

 

[Kings113]

Personally, I'd like and hope to see the Pacers win the East. Spurs/Pacers final would be tremendous. So would a Heat/Spurs one. I think people could forget about them because of the Heat and all their moves and names on there. Also my favorite east team next to Heat/Cavs/Sixers .

I think possibly for the Heat, defense, and all that talent could hurt them during the season and post-season. No doubt though, they'll be a blast to watch.

I'd say it could go to either of the big three (Indy/Miami/Detroit).

 

[6th]

Personally, I'd like and hope to see the Pacers win the East. Spurs/Pacers final would be tremendous. So would a Heat/Spurs one. I think people could forget about them because of the Heat and all their moves and names on there. Also my favorite east team next to Heat/Cavs/Sixers .

I think possibly for the Heat, defense, and all that talent could hurt them during the season and post-season. No doubt though, they'll be a blast to watch.

I'd say it could go to either of the big three (Indy/Miami/Detroit).

Oh, don't get me wrong. I am thrilled with the potential ego problems on the Heat. I am a Pacer fan (in the East). Actually, I root for them against everyone but the Kings.

 

[LPKingsFan]

Me too. Interesting how it seems that a lot of Kings fans like the Pacers too. Is it because of the Pollard and Miller connections? The fact that we wish we had Artest, or at least that our team played D like they did? Wish we had Jermaine as our C-Webb replacement? All/none of the above?

 

[6th]

Me too. Interesting how it seems that a lot of Kings fans like the Pacers too. Is it because of the Pollard and Miller connections? The fact that we wish we had Artest, or at least that our team played D like they did? Wish we had Jermaine as our C-Webb replacement? All/none of the above?

I am sure that there are many different reasons depending on the fan. In my case, it would be none of the above. Indianapolis is the closest NBA (and WNBA) city to my home town, so I have been a Pacer fan for years.

 

[T[MaC]]

Me too. Interesting how it seems that a lot of Kings fans like the Pacers too. Is it because of the Pollard and Miller connections? The fact that we wish we had Artest, or at least that our team played D like they did? Wish we had Jermaine as our C-Webb replacement? All/none of the above?

I've noticed that too, and even I'm hoping they win the East.

I just think Kings fans like the fact that EVERYONE hustles and really tries hard on the pacers..something we dont see all the time.

 

[Kings113]

Me too. Interesting how it seems that a lot of Kings fans like the Pacers too. Is it because of the Pollard and Miller connections? The fact that we wish we had Artest, or at least that our team played D like they did? Wish we had Jermaine as our C-Webb replacement? All/none of the above?

None.

I started liking them a lot around the same time as I liked the Kings anyways. But have gone back and seen a bunch of 1990s stuff, since I was basically a Bulls fan then and didn't follow NBA too much outside of them.

Obviously any team/fans but the Spurs and Pistons would wish they played defense like Indy.

 

[VF21]

Me too. Interesting how it seems that a lot of Kings fans like the Pacers too. Is it because of the Pollard and Miller connections? The fact that we wish we had Artest, or at least that our team played D like they did? Wish we had Jermaine as our C-Webb replacement? All/none of the above?

None of the above. My dad was an Indiana farm boy. When he died, I felt somewhat compelled to root for the Pacers in his honor. Over the years, I've actually come to enjoy their style of play - and their heart. And the guys from PacersDigest.com aren't exactly chopped liver, either!

 

[Dave McNulla]

the heat will not measure up to last years team

 

[KingKong]

They should save the rest of their money, for ego management.

 

[AriesMar27]

Me too. Interesting how it seems that a lot of Kings fans like the Pacers too. Is it because of the Pollard and Miller connections? The fact that we wish we had Artest, or at least that our team played D like they did? Wish we had Jermaine as our C-Webb replacement? All/none of the above?

i like the bulls..... captain kirk and gordon fisherman.....

 

[SacKingsFX]

that was basically a screw you from GP20 to kobe

 

[Kev.in]

The Heat last year were one game and a Dwayne Wade rib injury away from meeting San Antonio in the NBA Finals. The team chemistry was great, the offense was efficient, their two best players got the most touches, and everyone knew his role.

Then they decide to acquire dumb, selfish prima donnas Jason Williams, Antoine Walker, and Gary Payton and ruin the whole thing.

Sorry, that's what I think. They will self destruct this year.

Yup!

This is a case of "more = less".

GP didn't know how to play a non-star role and fit in with the Lakers, but he did OK with the Celtics. But what'd the Celtics accomplish last season? Not much.

This is another questionable move. Antoine, J-Will, GP... Sure, they're talented and can score the ball, but they're overrated at it and their best days are in the past. They can't defend and each have some history as a grumpy non-team player in certain situations. Has anyone ever used those kind of players to make the finishing touches on a championship team?

 

[Fillmoe]

can you say 04 lakers?

 

[rexb_kings]

I've noticed that too, and even I'm hoping they win the East.

I just think Kings fans like the fact that EVERYONE hustles and really tries hard on the pacers..something we dont see all the time.

can we like..just switch coaches then? i do like Carlisle, he almost developed Detroit from nothing and LBrown just brought them over the hump to win the title last year. and looking at what he did with Pacers...

 

[sono]

Oh, don't get me wrong. I am thrilled with the potential ego problems on the Heat. I am a Pacer fan (in the East). Actually, I root for them against everyone but the Kings.

interesting, what made you to become the Kings fan?
I like them or would say they're my 2nd team. Signing Saras this offseason made them more exciting to watch. Wish they did it a long ago, not impressed with Tinsley's play.

 

[sono]

BTW, chasing the ring makes me think GP's never had any commitment to any team he played for. If he gets the ring, then what... a player with his caliber shouldn't get it as a bench player. The only excuse is his age, but still....sad...

 

[6th]

interesting, what made you to become the Kings fan?
I like them or would say they're my 2nd team. Signing Saras this offseason made them more exciting to watch. Wish they did it a long ago, not impressed with Tinsley's play.

I was living in Sacramento when the Kings moved here. In fact, I lived in Sacramento for 23 years; moved to Illinois (where I was born) for 2 1/2 years; and, then moved back to Sacramento this past May. I consider Sacramento my home. I have lived here longer than I have lived anywhere else.

 

[loopymitch]

Is he following Shaq? Ahhh he misses him, isn't that sweet?

 

[Kings113]

So it continues more...:

And Payton's place?

[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=-1]Published September 25, 2005[/size][/font]




[font=Verdana,Arial, Helvetica]There is no debate. Or is there?

"I traded for Jason Williams because we needed a starting point guard," Heat President Pat Riley said Friday.

That trade, of course, was back on Aug. 2, when Gary Payton still was perceived as a big-ticket item in free agency, one seemingly beyond the Heat's grasp.

Now Payton is here. And now the issue could be how Williams reacts to the latest in a career-long string of challenges.

During his final year with the Kings, Williams often lost out on meaningful late-game minutes to Bobby Jackson. Then, over the past three years in Memphis, those same crucial minutes often were spent on the bench in favor of Earl Watson.

Now a future Hall of Famer is waiting in the wings.

"I don't think your best players or most talented or most versatile players will necessarily start," Riley said the day after signing Payton.

While that might have worked with Riley's championship Lakers, when Kurt Rambis, clearly an inferior talent, started ahead of Bob McAdoo, this is a different era. Starters now are greeted by fireworks, lasers, video tributes, semi-naked dancers. Reserves are mumbled into action during stoppages.

While Williams, at 29, clearly has the younger legs, Payton, at 37, hardly enters Stan Van Gundy's training camp at a comparative disadvantage.

Last season, with both playing as starters, Payton averaged more points (11.3 to 10.1), rebounds (3.1-1.7), assists (6.1-5.6) and steals (1.14-1.06), shot far better from the field (.468-.413) and slightly better on 3-pointers (.326-.324). Granted Payton did it in an average of 33 minutes a game to 27.5 for Williams, but that also spoke to the confidence from their respective coaches in Boston and Memphis.

With Williams under contract for three more years at more than $24 million, and with Payton on a one-year deal at the $1.1 million minimum, there are far too many considerations for the front office to encourage open competition.

Riley said the right thing last week: "It's whatever Stan wants and whoever he sees is in the best interest."[/font]

But it's about more than that. It's about Riley, from the top of the organization, making it work with a rotation of those who have almost exclusively played as starters most of their careers, be it Payton, Antoine Walker, James Posey or even Alonzo Mourning.

Riley, in fact, sounded none too pleased to learn Walker recently told ESPN.com, "I've never come off the bench in my career, so I'm not even looking at that as a possible option."

"There's not going to be any issue about who starts, who plays at the end of the game," Riley said. "The less they talk about it, the better it will be."

Should Walker emerge as starting power forward, Udonis Haslem likely would thrive off the bench, a role from which he emerged two years ago as a rookie.
Should Walker start at small forward, Posey already has proved a capable reserve.

But the Williams situation is different. Too many games have been played in recent years with the former Gators guard looking over his shoulder. By not bringing back incumbent starter Damon Jones, the Heat seemingly defused that issue. Now, with Payton in place, a player who has not played as a reserve in more than a decade, how can a healthy debate not ensue?

"To me," Riley said, "Jason Williams is probably the guy we're going to start."

So, in essence, Williams' Heat tenure begins punctuated the same way his Grizzlies tenure ended -- with a question mark.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/basketball/heat/sfl-ira25sep25,0,6411346.column?coll=sfla

I personally think, and would hope that Posey and Haslem are the starters at foward. It'd also be the best for the team and starting line-up. Posey is more of a pure swingman/SF, doesn't have an ego or anything (or to risk that), could fill the Eddie Jones role, and has good versatility. Plus he's become one of my favs over the last year or two. But I don't know about Posey getting that spot from the sound of things lately :/. Haslem, because of chemistry, time with the team, knows his role, younger, more athletic, better rebounder, and good consistency.