HB IS BACK

NewArena said:
This. Not saying everyone should be in love with Barnes but the doom and gloom is odd, considering the way our offseasons used to turn out.

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I mean that is kind of a romanticized way of saying it "Made a run at the 2-seed"..Wasn't much of a run if you ask me, and if we did make a run, it was to chase down the limping injured suspended Morant-less Grizzlies, n we couldn't catch em..... I honestly thought that it was quite dissapointing we were unable to chase down the 2-seed n we could've done better n seemed more focused in that regard, Adams and Clarke injured for the Grizz too if there was ever a time to chase them down it was then, n we balked.
 
We got to wait and see what else happens before we can judge this off-season. For instance…
  1. Waive Dozier
  2. Hold on making the Holmes deal final which technically gives us $6,052,886 in cap space
  3. Give Sabonis a $6,052,886 raise bringing his salary this year to $28,052,886
  4. Extend Sabonis for 4 years. With 8% raises, the max we can offer would be $176,973,225 (average of $44,243,306 per year). For comparison, a full max over 4 years would be $202,234,308 (average of $50,558,577 per year).
  5. Expand Holmes trade to include Toronto. Send out Holmes, Mitchell, & Pick(s) for Anunoby
  6. Go above cap to resign Lyles using the cap hold we have in place
  7. Sign Sasha to the room exception
  8. Fill in remaining roster spots with minimum deals

PG - Fox / Monk
SG - Huerter / Jones
SF - Murray / Barnes / Edwards
PF - Anunoby / Sasha / Slawson
C - Sabonis / Lyles
  • That gives us our elite defender who can raise our defensive team to be average (hopefully) who can also maintain the spacing keeping our offense elite (not to mention his age fits with our core)
  • That gives us an improved bench over last year. Monk & Lyles are consistent yesr over year so it comes down to Jones/Barnes/Sasha vs. Mitchell/Davis/Metu. I’d much rather have the former.
  • That gives us security with Sabonis as he’d essentially be locked up for the next 5 seasons (and at an amount a bit below the max).

Now I’m not saying this scenario will happen. Again, it’s just an example of what we can still do with the flexibility we have at the moment.

Let’s see what else McNair has in store for us…
 
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Honestly, i think the best move here is to take a run at brook lopez to see if ge bites at the same contract as HB. Throw him $18M which is close to what he reportedly is seeking ($20M) and see if you pry him out of Milwaukee (who could have offered him a $15M/yr extension over the last season but didn't). If he takes it you move HB to the bench, Murray to 3, Sabonis to PF and play with Lopez on the perimeter on Offense (he not only likes being there, but that is how Milwaukee played) and let him be you defensive rim protector, taking the anchor load off Sabonis, who struggled there). They would be a far more effective version of the Sabonis/Turner combo because Lopez actually likes playing on the perimeter. Then split the MLE between Sasha and Lyles and get a BAE to a reasonable combo guard FA for deep bench (Gabe Vincent, Shake Milton, Jevon Carter) or hope Keyon Ellis steps into the role. Then put our 2nd rounders on 2 way deals. Can always bring in Len back with a vet minimum exception for deep bench role as well.

Fox/Mitchell/Monk/BAE
Huerter/Monk/BAE
Murray/Barnes/Edwards
Sabonis/Sasha/Murray/Barnes
Lopez/Lyles/Sabonis

Stong 10 man deep group.
 
Ozymandias said:
I mean that is kind of a romanticized way of saying it "Made a run at the 2-seed"..Wasn't much of a run if you ask me, and if we did make a run, it was to chase down the limping injured suspended Morant-less Grizzlies, n we couldn't catch em..... I honestly thought that it was quite dissapointing we were unable to chase down the 2-seed n we could've done better n seemed more focused in that regard, Adams and Clarke injured for the Grizz too if there was ever a time to chase them down it was then, n we balked.
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Those losses to Portland and San Antonio … yuck
 
kingsfan101 said:
Not this year (perhaps not even next, given the kind of money invested in Barnes), but I was hoping that Keegan will move to 4, and we will have someone else starting at 3.

We might still go and get someone to play backup 3. Else, it's more likely going to be Sasha, and potentially more of Kevin and Edwards.
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No way Sasha guards an NBA 3. He can barely guard 4’s in Europe. Both Barnes and Keegan are better guarding 4’s. We don’t have anyone proven that can guard 2-3’s and shoot well enough to stay on the floor. Maybe Ellis and maybe Edwards.
 
Folsomkingsfan said:
So we’re good being a first round exit team again? Because that’s probably what’s going to happen if we just run it back.
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sure we could be a first round exit again. Or maybe your top 5 pick takes a big leap and becomes the player he was drafted to be. Or maybe Monk builds on his best season and becomes more consistent. Or maybe Huerter keeps developing his game, or maybe another year in Browns system improves our defense . Or maybe Davion finds his shot after all the hard work. Maybe Sasha shoots 40 percent from 3 and we add another deadly shooter to an already great offense. “Running it back” requires essentially no growth or change. Our core with this coach has been together 1 year. Our first round exit was an epic battle not a flop. And of course, fans said a similar thing at the deadline last year “everyone else got better” “we are going to slide out of the playoffs”. “We have to add somebody” we then go on to have one of the best records in the second half.
 
iowamcnabb said:
sure we could be a first round exit again. Or maybe your top 5 pick takes a big leap and becomes the player he was drafted to be. Or maybe Monk builds on his best season and becomes more consistent. Or maybe Huerter keeps developing his game, or maybe another year in Browns system improves our defense . Or maybe Davion finds his shot after all the hard work. Maybe Sasha shoots 40 percent from 3 and we add another deadly shooter to an already great offense. “Running it back” requires essentially no growth or change. Our core with this coach has been together 1 year. Our first round exit was an epic battle not a flop. And of course, fans said a similar thing at the deadline last year “everyone else got better” “we are going to slide out of the playoffs”. “We have to add somebody” we then go on to have one of the best records in the second half.
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Or we could do all of that and also look to upgrade the areas that were weaknesses of ours in the playoffs? We have major weaknesses on this team that aren’t masked by our offensive players becoming better offensive players.
 
Folsomkingsfan said:
Or we could do all of that and also look to upgrade the areas that were weaknesses of ours in the playoffs? We have major weaknesses on this team that aren’t masked by our offensive players becoming better offensive players.
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I don't think people should discount the value of continuity. The team gelled very fast last year in Brown's first year. I would imagine year two will be even more of a well oiled machine offensively (before even assuming player improvements). Question will be if Brown get get this team playing a consistently better defense. Moving pieces around doesn't guarantee anything and I would think more often than not **** things up.
 
Folsomkingsfan said:
Or we could do all of that and also look to upgrade the areas that were weaknesses of ours in the playoffs? We have major weaknesses on this team that aren’t masked by our offensive players becoming better offensive players.
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What PF would you have signed as a FA in this market, and what price? Because I can promise you we are not signing a starting SF to step a head of Keegan in the starting lineup.

Give us your full plan. We can match up it against Monte's.
 
So far it's status quo with minor changes around the edges. Still looking for Monte to add the lengthy defense needed to make the Kings competitive with Denver.
 
Kingster said:
So far it's status quo with minor changes around the edges. Still looking for Monte to add the lengthy defense needed to make the Kings competitive with Denver.
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This was my main concern in terms of a "weak spot" that we needed to shore up. Hoping we can find some kind of good value defensive big. In a limoncello infused haze I once opined we should sign Hartenstein. I later realized he's not a FA this year lol. So much for my plans. Bring one home Monte!

Should have just traded up for Wemby though tbqhwy.
 
iowamcnabb said:
sure we could be a first round exit again. Or maybe your top 5 pick takes a big leap and becomes the player he was drafted to be. Or maybe Monk builds on his best season and becomes more consistent. Or maybe Huerter keeps developing his game, or maybe another year in Browns system improves our defense . Or maybe Davion finds his shot after all the hard work. Maybe Sasha shoots 40 percent from 3 and we add another deadly shooter to an already great offense. “Running it back” requires essentially no growth or change. Our core with this coach has been together 1 year. Our first round exit was an epic battle not a flop. And of course, fans said a similar thing at the deadline last year “everyone else got better” “we are going to slide out of the playoffs”. “We have to add somebody” we then go on to have one of the best records in the second half.
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the problem his the huge defensive hole at the 2-3 position. Davion, Monk, Sasha, Keegan aren’t fixing that problem.

Kessler, Jones, Ellis or Slawson could. You are basically hoping for improvement from at least one of a slew of 2nd Round picks.
 
sactowndog said:
the problem his the huge defensive hole at the 2-3 position. Davion, Monk, Sasha, Keegan aren’t fixing that problem.

Kessler, Jones, Ellis or Slawson could. You are basically hoping for improvement from at least one of a slew of 2nd Round picks.
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Duarte will help and I do think at least one of those guys step up but I agree we need more
 
sactowndog said:
the problem his the huge defensive hole at the 2-3 position. Davion, Monk, Sasha, Keegan aren’t fixing that problem.

Kessler, Jones, Ellis or Slawson could. You are basically hoping for improvement from at least one of a slew of 2nd Round picks.
Click to expand...

Duarte is a pretty good buy low to address this problem. And built in chemistry with Domas.

Could do worse (probably) than Duarte taking the TD role
 
Vinny Basketballerino said:
What PF would you have signed as a FA in this market, and what price? Because I can promise you we are not signing a starting SF to step a head of Keegan in the starting lineup.

Give us your full plan. We can match up it against Monte's.
Click to expand...

I don't know Monte's full plan so I'm taking a wait and see approach. I do trust him overall though.

My opinion was just running it back with a few minor changes is probably going to result in another first round exit. I didn't say what positions we need to address or who we should bring in, but there are free agents out there that can help. Is that not an ok opinion to have?
 
The_Jamal said:
Duarte is a pretty good buy low to address this problem. And built in chemistry with Domas.

Could do worse (probably) than Duarte taking the TD role
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it’s also a reminder that Monte values experience and ready to go players over future bets. It takes the fun out of the draft process a bit but we should probably get used to it with Monte at the helm
 
The_Jamal said:
Duarte is a pretty good buy low to address this problem. And built in chemistry with Domas.

Could do worse (probably) than Duarte taking the TD role
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yeah he is okay but with a 6’7” wingspan he isn’t really long enough to be a lock down defender.

Edwards is 6’ 11”
Slawson 6’ 11.75”
Prosper Wingspan 7’ 1”

these guys have the tools. But can they shoot.
 
Vinny Basketballerino said:
This was my main concern in terms of a "weak spot" that we needed to shore up. Hoping we can find some kind of good value defensive big. In a limoncello infused haze I once opined we should sign Hartenstein. I later realized he's not a FA this year lol. So much for my plans. Bring one home Monte!

Should have just traded up for Wemby though tbqhwy.
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we shall see how Prosper turns out. But he was exactly the prototype size for the 3 and D defender we needed. Most of us who are not happy are unhappy because he was on the board but we dumped him to save cash.

So far the tinkering on the edges does not show a commitment to make the team better at its most obvious area of need.
 
Folsomkingsfan said:
I don't know Monte's full plan so I'm taking a wait and see approach. I do trust him overall though.

My opinion was just running it back with a few minor changes is probably going to result in another first round exit. I didn't say what positions we need to address or who we should bring in, but there are free agents out there that can help. Is that not an ok opinion to have?
Click to expand...

I'm a wait and seer myself. I'm just weary of the approach that we should "do something" when doing very little might actually be the best course of action. Letting these guys cook for another season. We might be able to get better just by getting better, and not adding a major star. My hunch is that we'll add a few more minor pieces. Who knows, maybe even a major one. I hope we get some interior D because that's pretty much why we lost to the Ws.
 
sactowndog said:
we shall see how Prosper turns out. But he was exactly the prototype size for the 3 and D defender we needed. Most of us who are not happy are unhappy because he was on the board but we dumped him to save cash.

So far the tinkering on the edges does not show a commitment to make the team better at its most obvious area of need.
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We dumped him to free Holmes's salary for someone who might actually play on the basketball court. Even if it is just giving early extensions, those would open up money next year (if we do extend Domas now it should help in retaining Monk who is way underpaid relative to his role on the team).

Also you can't keep a guy like Richaun a coach-DNP for 3 seasons. He was a good soldier who did not make waves last year, but you're destroying the man's career.

Can we at least see what we do with the money?
 
sactowndog said:
we shall see how Prosper turns out. But he was exactly the prototype size for the 3 and D defender we needed. Most of us who are not happy are unhappy because he was on the board but we dumped him to save cash.

So far the tinkering on the edges does not show a commitment to make the team better at its most obvious area of need.
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I simply don't understand this sentiment. Are you honestly claiming that Monte/Vivek is not committed to making the team better? You're accusing Vivek of just stashing cash for his own bank account at the expense of the team?

If one is compelled to "make a big move" in order to "show a commitment"... rather than objectively evaluating the situation and all possible moves - which may include not making a big move - which may still be the legitimate best thing to do... then I'm afraid that could be a mistake.

I get that people want to SEE some big moves, and criticize not doing so. My only point is... what would you have done? I'm seeing a lot of "we should have done something!!"

--

Edit: And so what in your mind is this most obvious area of need, and what would you do differently to address that? I'm honestly open to hearing people's opinions. Just saying "we should have done something" about an unspecified area of need however unfortunately I'm afraid does not qualify as an opinion in my very humble internet opinion. I'd call that complaining. Don't shoot the messenger!! :)
 
sactowndog said:
No way Sasha guards an NBA 3. He can barely guard 4’s in Europe. Both Barnes and Keegan are better guarding 4’s. We don’t have anyone proven that can guard 2-3’s and shoot well enough to stay on the floor. Maybe Ellis and maybe Edwards.
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The thing is, as currently constructed, it doesn't matter if Keegan is better at guarding 3's or 4's. He's getting majority of the minutes at 3, and will end up guarding that position.

It's possible that next year or beyond, the team moves him to 4, and either trades Barnes, or uses him as a backup (expensive backup) to get a more natural 3. If it happens, great. Else, we have to go with what we have.
 
Folsomkingsfan said:
I don't know Monte's full plan so I'm taking a wait and see approach. I do trust him overall though.

My opinion was just running it back with a few minor changes is probably going to result in another first round exit. I didn't say what positions we need to address or who we should bring in, but there are free agents out there that can help. Is that not an ok opinion to have?
Click to expand...

Maybe, maybe not.

I sometimes forget that last season the Kings started off 0-4. That KZ Okpala was in the starting lineup.

In terms of individual growth I think Keegan is the only player that we can reasonably expect to take a big leap, but let's not forget that Sabonis only played a handful of games in a Kings uniform before last season, and only what, five of them with Fox? Huerter was new to the team. Monk was new to the team. Murray was a rookie. Edwards came over midway. Brown and the coaching staff were new.

I was always okay with Barnes coming back, so this isn't me trying to rationalize an outcome I don't like. Because I really believe that continuity is underrated in the NBA.

I think the Kings still need to figure out the backup center spot (it's why I'm high on the Lyles experiment as a small ball center) and it's yet to be determined if Vezenkov is (a) coming over and (b) a quality player at the NBA level.

But the fact that this team is going into next season after being the 3rd seed and battling the Warriors in a seven game series instead of with the weight of a franchise that hadn't made the playoffs in 17 years matters. That they were better after the all-star break than before it (16-9 or .64 vs 32-25 or 0.56) matters. Another year with the same key pieces and the same coaching staff matters.
 
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NBA teams are compelled to spend X amount of money. There is a small range between X and Y, where anything over Y makes it extremely difficult to sign new players or complete trades. Once you go well past Y, every player on the team better be contributing or you're f'd.

The team has been very responsible with salary to leave room to imrpove. This is smart management not being cheap. If we let a key player walk for nothing, that's cheap. Incidentally, you could actually make this argument if we had let HB walk before locking in a replacement that actually improves the team.
 
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