[Game] Hawks vs Kings 11/18/2024, 7pm PST 10pm EST
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megapoxy
Starter
Colby and Isaac Jones helped those little minutes they played in both sides of the ball (defense and "circulating" the ball in offense), in 2nd half they were not used at all.
Lyles+Len experiment has failed this season in the short time they spent together (with Sabonis healthy), today we had a rough start again in both halves with the two of them together. Same thing against Minnesota with the Sabonis+Len together starting both halves.
Lyles+Len experiment has failed this season in the short time they spent together (with Sabonis healthy), today we had a rough start again in both halves with the two of them together. Same thing against Minnesota with the Sabonis+Len together starting both halves.
Kingster
Hall of Famer
I had to look that one up: "Ayahuasca journeys can range from one-night events to multi-day dietas, which usually require a participant to refrain from any intense physical stimulants such as sex, alcohol, and rich foods for a period of time"
Personally, I think he should do all of those forbidden things simultaneously to get out of head! If that doesn't work, he's got to meet his "carefree and elusive" Hermine (from Steppenwolf) to reconcile the wild primeval wolf and his rational self. This whole thing where the father got on his case about his anger when he was a kid seems to have messed him up.
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
I’m actually not unhappy with his progression. I also don’t consider his second season a sophomore slump. He has a big leap on defense and shot I think 37 or better from 3 from early December on. That’s very good.
I was pointing out is he has had really rough Novembers in all three seasons. it’s possible it’s a coincidence, but it also is something to explore a bit. Why the shooting struggles in that part of the year? Now if it continues all year then you have a bigger problem on your hands offensively.
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
It worked for Aaron Rodgers- oh wait…
megapoxy
Starter
The ref couldnt have had a better angle. But yet he chose to swallow his whistle.
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
yeh the only other option tonight would have been to try starting Brob given the Hawks were starting Capela. Don’t think you would have wanted to go small with Lyles on him but who knows.
HOU, PHX and GSW all lost tonight too. Just keep with the pack, as long as they stay within striking distance, we're fine. Pretty much as expected, the West is eating itself; you just need to make sure your not one of the teams that finds themselves 5-6 games out of the 6 seed.
Jones2006
Bench
"Short time" being the key words. They've rarely played together so far this year it seems. Both Lyles & Len are vets so I'm not with the overreaction criticizing their games. We have a whole sample size of last year of them playing very well off the bench together. Len by himself has just played 88 minutes this year and I'd say 1/4 of them at most has been with Lyles. (Heck Len has played 44 m the last 4 games and just the 13 minutes tonight roughly was w/ Lyles).
+ what you said that they had a rough start in both the 1st & 3rd isn't even true. They were -10 in the 1st quarter together (because everyone else couldn't hit a shot), but were +6 in their 7 minutes in the 3rd.
I still like the Len/Lyles combo. Starting sure they'll be out-talented most nights, but off the bench they were effective last year & still should be used this season. Coach Brown & coaching staff just haven't used them much it seems which is silly & foolish. When Sabonis was playing, they should have been used a solid 12 minutes each game but they weren't because the coaching staff has been BS'ing the whole bench's minutes and changing rotations every other game.
KingsFanSince85
All-Star
If that’s #77, LBJ or Curry — among many others — that’s whistled as a foul 99% of the time.
It looked like a foul to me in real time, and that picture confirms what I thought I saw.
I circle back to what I said several games back when the KINGS got called for that grab/hold on Devin Booker in PHX with just a couple seconds remaining. Historically the NBA has allowed a lot of contact to go uncalled during the last play of a game. Let the players decide it, essentially.
What’s maddening is when they call that foul for Booker instead of letting it go, but don’t give Swipa the call in a similar situation.
7pts 7rebs 1asts 2stls 6PFs and 4tos....Most impressive part is doing all of that in just 22 minutes of play.
3 back to back horrible games. I was at the game tonight and thought he did well on defense, but he gave absolutely nothing on offense... yet again when we needed him to show up tonight.
12pts in 2013-2014 is not the same as 2024. With 12.8ppg in his 3rd season, Kawhi was the 3rd leading scorer on his team. His team were playoff contenders who won over 60 games. As a matter of fact, they won the finals that year and Kawhi received finals MVP.
During that very season, Kawhi was being touted for his defense, but he oozed offensive potential with the ability to score in isolation and operate in the mid-range.
Aside from their defensive abilities, they are nothing alike on offense.
3 back to back horrible games. I was at the game tonight and thought he did well on defense, but he gave absolutely nothing on offense... yet again when we needed him to show up tonight.
You're leaving out a lot of context comparing 3rd year Kawhi to 3rd year Keegan Murray.
12pts in 2013-2014 is not the same as 2024. With 12.8ppg in his 3rd season, Kawhi was the 3rd leading scorer on his team. His team were playoff contenders who won over 60 games. As a matter of fact, they won the finals that year and Kawhi received finals MVP.
During that very season, Kawhi was being touted for his defense, but he oozed offensive potential with the ability to score in isolation and operate in the mid-range.
Aside from their defensive abilities, they are nothing alike on offense.
MPJ and Klay both have better shooting strokes than Keegan. Keegan has a flatter shot that gives him less margin for error with the way it hits the rim.
It took Klay 9 seasons before he shot under 40% from 3pt. It took MPJ 4 seasons before he shot under 40% from 3pt (minus his injured year). Keegan shot just a hair under 36% from 3pt in his 2nd year. He's clearly not on the same level of shooting at these guys.
I think he's more like a prime Trevor Ariza?
edit: should elaborate that I mean current Keegan looks like prime Trevor Ariza who was one of the most important players on the Harden Rockets. He was the mold for 3&D SFs
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iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
The win one lose one is just such a drag as a fan. That’s possibly how it goes most of the season, I just hope we can rip off 4 in a row sometime soon
If he never got one iota better than he is now? And if his shot never comes back? Sure. That's seems highly unlikely though and Ariza has never shown Keegans upside as a scorer or on the glass or frankly as a multi-positional defender 1-4 the way he is now.
You're just being short-term results oriented and missing the bigger picture. The dude who's 2nd in 3PM and 3rd in 3p% for his first 2 years as a pro is probably not going to just fall off a cliff shooting wise and be 30% the rest of his career.
I think the best we can shoot for is "If we go 7-3 to close the year, we 100% lock up the 5 seed". Not "If we go 7-3 to close the year and Dallas goes 4-6 and GSW goes 5-5, we get the 6 seed" Or something to that nature. Basically, we don't want to be in a scenario where we have to close the year strong AND hope we get lucky that other teams fall off. If you can control your destiny to the playoffs, that's what we should be shooting for.
that’s sort of the problem, we went from Middleton comparison to MPJ to Ariza.
Players usually shoot better after rookie season, not worse. Will he become a 40% 3pt shooter again? Maybe, but unlikely this season. Right now, he’s 0 and d guy, not 3 and d guy.
coolhandluke
Starter
#10 in the west when we had the easiest schedule in the league. Untimely injuries have killed any chance of us making a run.
That's what I saw on the replay -- Daniels got no ball and his hand is wrapped around De'Aaron's wrist preventing him from getting a shot off. That is so clearly a foul that you would have to be a complete Atlanta homer to ignore it... or an NBA official, apparently. And yet Trae coming around a screen and whipping his head back warrants a call every time? I just don't understand what the NBA is trying to do by rewarding Trae Young's demonstrative ref baiting while allowing Atlanta's defenders to treat a guy who just scored 109 points in back-to-back games like a human pinball. Do you want to market superhuman skill and athleticism or do you want to market no defense, 3pt chucking, lawyer ball? Seems like an easy choice to me.
It also casts doubt for me on the whole "elite defender" reputation certain guys in the league have. Yeah of course you're an elite defender if the officials will let you grab a shooter's wrist without calling a foul. Try being an elite defender and getting the calls that Keegan got tonight -- that would actually be impressive.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
They'll have to get something like that going because certainly some team will. Right now the 6th seed is at around a 48-49 wins on the year arc. The key as Jerry Reynolds would always point out is the loss column. If you want in, stay away from that 32. At some point some team in that pack will start getting on some type of roll. They always do. The Kings don't want to start racking up L's or playing large stretches of .500 ball like they are early again this season because then they're relying on the failure of other teams than their own success.
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
Some elements individually are startup to trend up for the Kings: Fox has had 5 straight games shooting over 40 percent from 3, Lyles has found his legs, Keon is now over 40 percent from 3 on the season. How does that look with Deebo and Sabonis doing there thing? Now that a few guys are making shots can we utilize Deebo as a facilitator a bit more? Can we go deeper into the bench to keep guys fresh? Does Keegan get going in December? A lot of questions to answer
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
the Kings have had to play 5 games in 7 days TWICE over the last month. Not sure how that counts as easy
Srzly
G-League
Thank you. Trae Young held to 1 FG. Only 4 pts while Keegan was in, but Keegan had a bad game because apparently scoring points is the only thing that matters.
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Tizzy Flip
Starter
Yes, I totally agree that the reffing was awful in this game. That said, we had some really bad stretches of turnovers, bad ball movement, and leaving their guys wide open 3s (and that’s with Trey not making a single 3). If this is us on the 2nd night of a B2B on the road, we call it a schedule loss. When we were up close to double digits late in the 3rd, we could have gone in for the kill but we kept letting Hunter and Daniel’s get uncontested 3s
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
Apparently Mike Brown said the Kings haven’t had a full contract practice since October due to the tight schedule. Just walk throughs.
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What really bugs me is that Fox shot 12 more two pointers than Trae. One is known for his tough shots taking it to the hoop, the other is known as a three point specialist/passer. Yet through three and a half quarters, Trae had more free throws than Fox.
It’s especially egregious when they call the Kings for ticky tack fouls, fouling Keegan out after only 22 minutes. Yet Fox can get mauled multiple times with a ref staring it down and nothing.
It’s especially egregious when they call the Kings for ticky tack fouls, fouling Keegan out after only 22 minutes. Yet Fox can get mauled multiple times with a ref staring it down and nothing.
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
On a completely unrelated note, when the hell did Dean Wade turn into one of the best defenders in the league? The dude’s been on these lists with Keegan for the last two seasons and I remember him being terrible at defense whenever we faced him in the Like Walton era.
Still salty. Rigged league.
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