Hawes and other current big men in the NBA

[PurpleHaze]

Reason I thought bad things when we drafted him (which of course I was dead wrong in thinking and admit it) is because (not trying to be racist) how many white guys, especially big men, that have the type of game that Hawes has? How many white Americans are any good? Then I thought to myself... Basketball is more popular than ever, and people that normally wouldn't get the chance are now able to play.

Spencer Hawes was virtually destined to be a Sacramento King when the organization drew the 10th pick. Clearly 7-8 players selected in front of him would have been taken by the Kings if they hadn't been stuck with 10th pick. If Chicago would not have taken J. Noah with their 9th pick it's almost certain he would have been wearing purple and not Hawes. If that other ping pong ball scenario happened it's likely Hawes still would not have slipped very far. Maybe even the Clips would have taken him at 11 instead of Thornton - and while the Kings liked him they couldn't use another wing player.

Here's a partial list of current white big men NBA players ranging from superstars, to stars, to players destined for long careers or already playing in the league many years: *Yes, the majority listed (16 players) are from overseas, but I could have come closer to evening it up by including several more US born reserve big men currently on NBA rosters - but didn't want to do anymore looking around for said stiffs.

Dirk Nowitzski PF 7'0
Pau Gasol F/C 7'0
Chris Kaman C 7'0
Zydrunas Ilgauska C 7'3
Jeff Foster F/C 6'11
Troy Murphy F/C 6'11
Brad Miller C 7'0
Nenad Kristic F/C 7'0
Andrea Bargnani F/C 6'11
Andrew Bogut C 7'0
Mehmet Okur F/C 6'11
Andris Biedrens C 6'11
Darco Milicic F/C 7'0
Farbricio Oberto C 6'10
Joel Prizbilla C 7'1
David Lee F/C 6'10

 

[1kingzfan]

Your forgot a big one..Hedo Turkoglu who, at 20/6/5 currently, certainly will get a few votes for All-NBA Team and thus be an honorable mention selection.

I still say that the Kings should have drafted Al Thornton, since one of our most glaring weaknesses (amongst the millennium of them) is that we are one of the least athletic teams in the league.

Hawes looked really good last night, and he is crafty around the hoop with his ambidexterity that most big men just do not have. But, in the end, like Brad, we will see him out-athleticized over and over again in his stint with us (ie, more athletic guys skying over him for rebounds, more athletic guys quicker to loose balls or long boards, more athletic guys speeding past him in isolation, etc, etc, etc).

The NBA game has become more of a blending of athleticism and skills players, with athleticism at a premium. Spencer thus has a real ceiling that he will not be able to overcome over the course of his career. In order to optimize his potential, though, he needs to bulk up a bit, hit the weight machines big time and build upper body strength, so that he can be a better low post player on both ends and be able score on power, not just running outside for the jumper or sleight of hand beneath the hoop.

Like Brad, place Spencer next to a talented, athletic big guy (who can actually help him in tandem on D), and he will look even better.

 

[kingsfan916]

I have always said that i hate Miller playing the 5 because he is not imposing around the basket. It drives me nuts when other teams attack the rim and miller is standing right there not doing sh!t. However playing Miller at the 4 would be a good idea because his strengths are finding cutters and shooting his little 15 foot jumper. Spencer starting at the 5 will be a good idea because its going to happen anyways and might as well get his feet wet now.

yea but imagine hawes and miller on D? imagine them tryin to guard kenyon martin and camby or some other athletic frontline

 

[PurpleHaze]

Your forgot a big one..Hedo Turkoglu who, at 20/6/5 currently, certainly will get a few votes for All-NBA Team and thus be an honorable mention selection.

I still say that the Kings should have drafted Al Thornton, since one of our most glaring weaknesses (amongst the millennium of them) is that we are one of the least athletic teams in the league.

Hawes looked really good last night, and he is crafty around the hoop with his ambidexterity that most big men just do not have. But, in the end, like Brad, we will see him out-athleticized over and over again in his stint with us (ie, more athletic guys skying over him for rebounds, more athletic guys quicker to loose balls or long boards, more athletic guys speeding past him in isolation, etc, etc, etc).

The NBA game has become more of a blending of athleticism and skills players, with athleticism at a premium. Spencer thus has a real ceiling that he will not be able to overcome over the course of his career. In order to optimize his potential, though, he needs to bulk up a bit, hit the weight machines big time and build upper body strength, so that he can be a better low post player on both ends and be able score on power, not just running outside for the jumper or sleight of hand beneath the hoop.

Like Brad, place Spencer next to a talented, athletic big guy (who can actually help him in tandem on D), and he will look even better.

Hedo could have been on that list at 6'10 along with several other "big white guys" as I indicated. Surely, with only 16 listed I could have come up with maybe 8-10 more if I just wanted to keep on typing.

Thornton was pushing 24 on draft day so that might have been a minor factor in not taking him. But, I still think the Kings brain trust being stuck with their 10th pick were limited by then and simply wanted the best available big man on the board.

If Spencer Hawes develops a game on the level of a Pau Gasol or even a Dirk Nowitzki in a few years that pick will turn into gold. I'm sure the Kings would love it if he bulked up and was able to bang inside more like a Chris Kaman. No question he'll probably never be a Greg Oden type inside presence whenever we get to see the real Oden on an NBA court. Only time will tell how good both those teenagers will be for the Blazers and the Kings.

Quality big men who are an inside force are so hard to find along with dynamic true point guards for any NBA team. 6'6-6'8 wing players are a dime a dozen and easiest to load up on any roster. The Kings need to score via draft, trade, free agency, another very solid PG (not combo guard) and another dominating, big-time rebounding, shot blocking PF/C to address that glaring need. It aint easy as they say!

 

[Arkitect]

Your forgot a big one..Hedo Turkoglu who, at 20/6/5 currently, certainly will get a few votes for All-NBA Team and thus be an honorable mention selection.

I still say that the Kings should have drafted Al Thornton, since one of our most glaring weaknesses (amongst the millennium of them) is that we are one of the least athletic teams in the league.

Hawes looked really good last night, and he is crafty around the hoop with his ambidexterity that most big men just do not have. But, in the end, like Brad, we will see him out-athleticized over and over again in his stint with us (ie, more athletic guys skying over him for rebounds, more athletic guys quicker to loose balls or long boards, more athletic guys speeding past him in isolation, etc, etc, etc).

The NBA game has become more of a blending of athleticism and skills players, with athleticism at a premium. Spencer thus has a real ceiling that he will not be able to overcome over the course of his career. In order to optimize his potential, though, he needs to bulk up a bit, hit the weight machines big time and build upper body strength, so that he can be a better low post player on both ends and be able score on power, not just running outside for the jumper or sleight of hand beneath the hoop.

Like Brad, place Spencer next to a talented, athletic big guy (who can actually help him in tandem on D), and he will look even better.

I think the idea that the NBA has become dependent on athleticism is just not true. The teams full of athletes are not the ones winning championships. Good solid basketball is still the deciding factor for teams who win. Spencer is a talented center. He can definitely play at an NBA level. For a center at the age of 19, it is a good sign that he has already shown that he can play. As he grows up, I think he will naturally get stronger and he will become a better low post player. We don't know his full potential yet, but I think Spencer will be good enough to play on a contending team in a few years. Obviously, he is probably not going to be a centerpiece on a contending team. But one advantage he does have is that he is one of the few skilled centers in the league. The competition at his position is nowhere near what it would be at other positions.

As far as getting skyed over for rebounds and such, that is going to happen. Even Amare and Wallace get beat in the air for boards. But in the end, Hawes still pulled in more boards last night than anyone else on the court. Athletisism is great, but being 7 feet tall with long arms is better and will get you more boards.

 

[Spike]

Spurs, Heat, Spurs, Pistons, Spurs, Lakers

Where were the athletic, high-flyers that impacted their championship run? Martin and Camby don't seem to be pushing Denver deep into the playoffs.

I think "the athlete with potential" is getting overhyped. If anything, we're seeing a return to the skilled player. Athleticism will win you a dunk contest. Hawes is demonstrating that he can be a starter in the NBA, regardless of "athleticism."

 

[bajaden]

I'm wasting my breath on some of you, but basketball is a game of skill. If your athletic and skilled your probably a star. Give me a skilled semi athletic big man over a unskilled very athletic big man every time. Hawes has skills that some big men that have played in the NBA for 10 yrs don't have. He has the ability to score with either hand. He's a very good passer.

Think about why the United States started having trouble in the world championships. Because they were sending over unskilled athletic players by comparison to the European players. They wern't as athletic, but they knew how to play the game. Larry Bird wasn't a great athlete. I suspose most of you wouldn't want him on your team. When you get a very skilled player who also happens to be a great athlete, you have M. Jordan. Very rarely happens, and your lucky if you have him.

I feel like I'm shouting into the wind, but I've seen too many great teams and too many great players in my lifetime. And they wern't great because they were athletic. They were great because they knew how to play the game at a high level. Athleticism is simply a tool given by God, or nature if your agnostic. Its what you do with that tool that counts...

 

[RunNGun]

Somebody needs to put this into a poll question "Do you believe Athleticism or Skill is more important in the NBA?". I would, but I am lazy.

Spencer Hawes is my boy. The first time I heard him compared to Vlade I took interest and he has not disappointed. It's simple to see, he just does things that 95% of NBA bigs do not even attempt. He waits with his back to the basket for a passing opportunity to a cutter. If no one gets free then he's got a face up jumper, a hook shot with either hand, and an array of good foot work that throws many big men that just aren't used to skilled big men. Without a doubt in my mind Spencer (barring significant injury knock on wood) will be an All-Star someday as a scoring and passing big man.

I think his play settles the argument against Thorton. Al's already physically developed so you can't see much improvement there. He's got the scoring down and can even rebound well for his size, but at 24 I would expect that. He's also very turnover prone as I saw him get 10 in one game. With Artest, Thorton wouldn't have got any time anyways. At 19 Spencer has enormous potential. And he's already proven that he is a solid 20-25 minute a game player now. You can't find too many players that have potential and can contribute now.

 

[Gary]

If Hawes gives us anything close to Dirk, or Pau I will seriously celebrate in the streets. Watching Spencer over the last month that he has gotten significant minutes I have come to this conclusion.. This kid is really skilled for being 19 years old. He has a step back jumper like Dirk has, he has the inside moves that Pau has, he has the bank shots that Duncan has. Of course he isn't as good at that specific area as the players mentioned above, but if in three years he improves I don't see any reason why he can't be.

Makes you think about the teams that draft guys like Jason Collins, Cedric Simmons, Hilton Armstrong, Saer Sene, or Patrick O'Bryant. May others come to mind but you see what I mean. Athletes that don't have many years of organized basketball who are drafted purely on if they are athletic and tall.

I don't think you draft a defensive player unless you know he will turn out to be a Ben Wallace, or a Mutumbo. At least not in the lottery.

 

[Vlade4GM]

He isn't as athletic as Dirk or Pau and he certainly isn't as long as Pau; not nearly as skilled on the perimeter as Dirk. he's not like them, but he can still be good. He'll be a Bogut/Vlade type, that's about where his ceiling is.

 

[Gary]

He isn't as athletic as Dirk or Pau and he certainly isn't as long as Pau; not nearly as skilled on the perimeter as Dirk. he's not like them, but he can still be good. He'll be a Bogut/Vlade type, that's about where his ceiling is.

Higher than Bogut imo, but Lower than Vlade. Vlade was the type of player that made everyone around him better. A LOT better. A great team guy.

I was talking about Hawes offensive moves in comparing to Dirk/Pau. It's very similar to Dirk the way he shoots the step back/fade away jumper, and his post moves are VERY similar to Pau. His off the glass half hook is similar to Duncan. Of course none of his moves are as good as the three mentioned above. Not yet anyway.

I think about how lucky the Lakers are with Bynum next to Pau. that's the perfect duo to play PF/C for the Lakers. Bynum is a monster inside, and Pau has the ability to step out. Bynum is a strong side defender, and Pau is one hell of a weak side shot blocker. It's crazy how well they are going to do together. Not to mention they have the best player in the league in Kobe (arguably). The playoffs this year I think I am going to be watching a lot of Laker BBall. I think they will be odds on Favorites to win it all. The Hornets are still a couple years away. They lack the playoff experience, and if they were to get the one or two seed I wouldn't be surprised if they were knocked out by Dallas or Golden State.

Hope one day we can get a PF to go along side of Hawes.

 

[netseee]

I don't mind Kings to pick Kevin Love even he is not athletic

 

[SacKings7]

Spurs, Heat, Spurs, Pistons, Spurs, Lakers

Where were the athletic, high-flyers that impacted their championship run? Martin and Camby don't seem to be pushing Denver deep into the playoffs.

I think "the athlete with potential" is getting overhyped. If anything, we're seeing a return to the skilled player. Athleticism will win you a dunk contest. Hawes is demonstrating that he can be a starter in the NBA, regardless of "athleticism."

Overhyped? It's only overhyped when the players in question don't pan out. Seems to me that 2 teams on that list have 2 players with unparalled athleticism, Wade and Kobe. (3 if you count Manu). If I were a rebuilding team, I'd take a chance on an ahtlete with potential over a solid starter any day...depending on the pieces already in place I guess

EDIT: I realize this is a thread about athletic big men, but you didn't state that in your post

 

[creAtivetfh]

I don't mind Kings to pick Kevin Love even he is not athletic

me too

 

[mac]

How athletic our big man needs to be depends on the rest of our players I guess. Hawes has really impressed me, and we don't know how good he'll turn out. He still has how many years to be Dirk/Pau's age? But yeah he definitely needs to bulk up

 

[Spike]

Overhyped? It's only overhyped when the players in question don't pan out. Seems to me that 2 teams on that list have 2 players with unparalled athleticism, Wade and Kobe. (3 if you count Manu). If I were a rebuilding team, I'd take a chance on an ahtlete with potential over a solid starter any day...depending on the pieces already in place I guess

EDIT: I realize this is a thread about athletic big men, but you didn't state that in your post

The two you listed are skilled basketball players. Very skilled. And they're not big men.

 

[Vlade4GM]

Higher than Bogut imo, but Lower than Vlade. Vlade was the type of player that made everyone around him better. A LOT better. A great team guy.

I was talking about Hawes offensive moves in comparing to Dirk/Pau. It's very similar to Dirk the way he shoots the step back/fade away jumper, and his post moves are VERY similar to Pau. His off the glass half hook is similar to Duncan. Of course none of his moves are as good as the three mentioned above. Not yet anyway.

I think about how lucky the Lakers are with Bynum next to Pau. that's the perfect duo to play PF/C for the Lakers. Bynum is a monster inside, and Pau has the ability to step out. Bynum is a strong side defender, and Pau is one hell of a weak side shot blocker. It's crazy how well they are going to do together. Not to mention they have the best player in the league in Kobe (arguably). The playoffs this year I think I am going to be watching a lot of Laker BBall. I think they will be odds on Favorites to win it all. The Hornets are still a couple years away. They lack the playoff experience, and if they were to get the one or two seed I wouldn't be surprised if they were knocked out by Dallas or Golden State.

Hope one day we can get a PF to go along side of Hawes.

I think he's got more scoring potential than Bogut because I think he's got a better jump shot and a little more advanced post game, but Bogut has got better vision/passing than Hawes.

 

[venom_7]

yea but imagine hawes and miller on D? imagine them tryin to guard kenyon martin and camby or some other athletic frontline

Do you really honestly think they can do much worse than Mikki/Brad? Think about alternatives here.

 

[tyrant]

Spurs, Heat, Spurs, Pistons, Spurs, Lakers

Where were the athletic, high-flyers that impacted their championship run? Martin and Camby don't seem to be pushing Denver deep into the playoffs.

I think "the athlete with potential" is getting overhyped. If anything, we're seeing a return to the skilled player. Athleticism will win you a dunk contest. Hawes is demonstrating that he can be a starter in the NBA, regardless of "athleticism."

all of those teams had a player or 2 that had a ton of athleticism. and they all won championships. manu, kobe, ben wallace, wade, alonzo mourning. those guys made the difference.

 

[KCKingsCountry]

all of those teams had a player or 2 that had a ton of athleticism. and they all won championships. manu, kobe, ben wallace, wade, alonzo mourning. those guys made the difference.

And most of those guys you listed are down playing the 2/3 not at the 5.

 

[tyrant]

I'm wasting my breath on some of you, but basketball is a game of skill. If your athletic and skilled your probably a star. Give me a skilled semi athletic big man over a unskilled very athletic big man every time. Hawes has skills that some big men that have played in the NBA for 10 yrs don't have. He has the ability to score with either hand. He's a very good passer.

Think about why the United States started having trouble in the world championships. Because they were sending over unskilled athletic players by comparison to the European players. They wern't as athletic, but they knew how to play the game. Larry Bird wasn't a great athlete. I suspose most of you wouldn't want him on your team. When you get a very skilled player who also happens to be a great athlete, you have M. Jordan. Very rarely happens, and your lucky if you have him.

I feel like I'm shouting into the wind, but I've seen too many great teams and too many great players in my lifetime. And they wern't great because they were athletic. They were great because they knew how to play the game at a high level. Athleticism is simply a tool given by God, or nature if your agnostic. Its what you do with that tool that counts...

who cares about the world championships. you should know that the best players in the league dont always play in those. in the past the league had players who were more skilled. but the game has evolved. displaying more athleticism and talent than just skill.

 

[bench_blob]

I'm wasting my breath on some of you, but basketball is a game of skill. If your athletic and skilled your probably a star. Give me a skilled semi athletic big man over a unskilled very athletic big man every time. Hawes has skills that some big men that have played in the NBA for 10 yrs don't have. He has the ability to score with either hand. He's a very good passer.

Think about why the United States started having trouble in the world championships. Because they were sending over unskilled athletic players by comparison to the European players. They wern't as athletic, but they knew how to play the game. Larry Bird wasn't a great athlete. I suspose most of you wouldn't want him on your team. When you get a very skilled player who also happens to be a great athlete, you have M. Jordan. Very rarely happens, and your lucky if you have him.

I feel like I'm shouting into the wind, but I've seen too many great teams and too many great players in my lifetime. And they wern't great because they were athletic. They were great because they knew how to play the game at a high level. Athleticism is simply a tool given by God, or nature if your agnostic. Its what you do with that tool that counts...

I didn't read the counterargument to your posts, but I don't know how anyone could disagree.

Look at this guy Stromil Swift, a former #2 pick in the draft a few years back, can jump through the gym, his career is DOA b/c fundamentals are not there.

What about Gerald Green? Can win a slam dunk contest, can't dribble, shoot, make smart decisions, riding bench on 3rd team, playing his way out of the league.

It wasn't until Gerald Wallace learned the fundamentals to go with his athleticism that he became an impact player.

The thing about Hawes is he actually has improved his athleticism over the course of the year by getting in better shape, healing from his injury, and working hard in the gym and practice. He has actually pretty active in the paint, for a 19 year old center he is a borderline PHENOM playing at the level of skill he is showing.

If the draft was held all over, he would be a Top 5 pick!!!!

 

[HighFlyingMonkey]

I'm super excited about having Hawes for the future. A seven footer with Al Jefferson-esque footwork and Brad Miller-esque passing? Hot damn. Those are the hardest parts of the game to learn, and once he starts using that huge frame in conjunction with those skills, we'll have quite a player on our hands. I can see something like 17/9/4 in his future.

 

[bench_blob]

He isn't as athletic as Dirk or Pau and he certainly isn't as long as Pau; not nearly as skilled on the perimeter as Dirk. he's not like them, but he can still be good. He'll be a Bogut/Vlade type, that's about where his ceiling is.

It's too early to be drawing these conclusions. If you would have been forecasting the ceiling on Kevin Martin after his first year, what would you have said? Certainly, not a star.

 

[Spike]

who cares about the world championships. you should know that the best players in the league dont always play in those. in the past the league had players who were more skilled. but the game has evolved. displaying more athleticism and talent than just skill.

The game HAS evolved, and we're being left behind. It's not just the world championships, it's the Olympics, it's any international play. To say it doesn't matter is misguided. Not only are other countries bringing in more athletic players, they are more SKILLED players, and that's why we can't just "out-talent" them anymore.

Sorry to derail what has been a pretty good topic on Hawes and his maturity.

 

[Vlade4GM]

It's too early to be drawing these conclusions. If you would have been forecasting the ceiling on Kevin Martin after his first year, what would you have said? Certainly, not a star.

He improved in his skills, there's a big difference between improving in skills and improving in size/length/athleticism. One you can do with hard work, one you rarely ever can do.

 

[1kingzfan]

Excellent discussion here.

I think the point that many are missing is that with athletic versus skilled, it's not an either/or proposition. It is obvious that a bunch of guys that move quicker or jump higher than any man but cannot dribble or shoot a basketball will not be good players. But we are talking about NBA athletic players here who would not be where they are without a certain skill level and certain level of hoops fundamentals. Both of which can be improved upon.

There are NBA bust athletes and NBA bust pure skills players. For every Stromile Swift and company, you can name a gaggle of fundamentally solid and rooted players that washed out of the NBA. Recent NBA champions all had their several athletic types to aid their successful championship runs, and some have been cornerstones...Kobe, Wade, Hamilton/Prince, etc.

A player who is skilled and not very athletic (no big hops, no big speed, no big quickness, no superb moves, no big reaction time, etc) can be a very good player but will never be athletic. On the flip side, an athletic player can develop better basketball skills over time. You cannot teach being more athletic.

Now, look at your Kings and what has happened to them in the last couple years. Really look at and see why we usually get outrebounded and play poor defense at the 4 and 5 slots. Don't look at one game where Hawes led all players in rebounding, but rather look at the long-term trend. Primarily, we are overmatched athletically on the front line. As a result, we lose in a lot of different ways in those match-ups on a play by play basis.

I really wish we had kept Justin Williams and gave him a little more time, especially in this losing season. Just like KMart, he seemed like a player that just needed some more playing time and NBA seasoning to develop more. Not very good fundamentally, true, and he was indeed a coaching "project", but I thought he just needed a little more time.

Again, it is my opinion that the NBA game has evolved another step in the last decade, and our team is still trying to build like it's the 90's. Without a hefty dose of athleticism injected to our roster, we have no chance of regaining our former competitive stature. KMart and Artest are not enough. That's why I liked Thornton over Hawes and still do. But both players have a long ways to go to hit their max strides, so we shall see.

 

[BritishColumbia]

Excellent discussion here.

I think the point that many are missing is that with athletic versus skilled, it's not an either/or proposition. It is obvious that a bunch of guys that move quicker or jump higher than any man but cannot dribble or shoot a basketball will not be good players. But we are talking about NBA athletic players here who would not be where they are without a certain skill level and certain level of hoops fundamentals. Both of which can be improved upon.

There are NBA bust athletes and NBA bust pure skills players. For every Stromile Swift and company, you can name a gaggle of fundamentally solid and rooted players that washed out of the NBA. Recent NBA champions all had their several athletic types to aid their successful championship runs, and some have been cornerstones...Kobe, Wade, Hamilton/Prince, etc.

A player who is skilled and not very athletic (no big hops, no big speed, no big quickness, no superb moves, no big reaction time, etc) can be a very good player but will never be athletic. On the flip side, an athletic player can develop better basketball skills over time. You cannot teach being more athletic.

Now, look at your Kings and what has happened to them in the last couple years. Really look at and see why we usually get outrebounded and play poor defense at the 4 and 5 slots. Don't look at one game where Hawes led all players in rebounding, but rather look at the long-term trend. Primarily, we are overmatched athletically on the front line. As a result, we lose in a lot of different ways in those match-ups on a play by play basis.

I really wish we had kept Justin Williams and gave him a little more time, especially in this losing season. Just like KMart, he seemed like a player that just needed some more playing time and NBA seasoning to develop more. Not very good fundamentally, true, and he was indeed a coaching "project", but I thought he just needed a little more time.

Again, it is my opinion that the NBA game has evolved another step in the last decade, and our team is still trying to build like it's the 90's. Without a hefty dose of athleticism injected to our roster, we have no chance of regaining our former competitive stature. KMart and Artest are not enough. That's why I liked Thornton over Hawes and still do. But both players have a long ways to go to hit their max strides, so we shall see.

It can be a long discussion and I do not wanna be in it but the truth is that you CAN TEACH BEING MORE ATHLETIC. You can not teach being a 100m Olympic champion if somebody does not have an unique athleticism .. but quickness, physical power, jump can be improved significantly. As a college basketball player I was a pretty quick PG for 6'5" (with shoes) but my jumping ability was miserable. I could not even dunk. In my senior year, when I was 23, I finally decided to improve my leap. I worked very hard and at the end of the year I did it. May be you won't be able to jump like a monkey but you can improve it.

 

[JoMama]

I was talking about Hawes offensive moves in comparing to Dirk/Pau. It's very similar to Dirk the way he shoots the step back/fade away jumper, and his post moves are VERY similar to Pau. His off the glass half hook is similar to Duncan. Of course none of his moves are as good as the three mentioned above. Not yet anyway.

Hawes can also score with his right or left hands. I'm impressed with the kid, even though I was pissed when the Kings drafted him. My bad.

 

[diggining]

It can be a long discussion and I do not wanna be in it but the truth is that you CAN TEACH BEING MORE ATHLETIC. You can not teach being a 100m Olympic champion if somebody does not have an unique athleticism .. but quickness, physical power, jump can be improved significantly. As a college basketball player I was a pretty quick PG for 6'5" (with shoes) but my jumping ability was miserable. I could not even dunk. In my senior year, when I was 23, I finally decided to improve my leap. I worked very hard and at the end of the year I did it. May be you won't be able to jump like a monkey but you can improve it.

Exactly. The key here is that Spencer is still only 19! You can't expect a 25-year-old to improve his athleticism, but you can expect a 7-0 230 19-year-old to get bigger, stronger, and he might even grow another inch by the time he is 23.