Have we destroyed Marcus Thornton?

S

spudfan

Starter
After the trade that brought him to our team he looked really good. He averaged over 21 points in that partial season. Last year he was at 18.7 points. This year he is at 11.4. For the most part it seems like IT and Thornton swapped the dedicated chucker role on the team. Over the last 14 games (since he was injured) he has had this weird minute distribution. It goes something like 8-10 minutes for one game, then 20-30 minutes for 2 games, then 8-10 minutes for a game, repeat. See below.

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Out of everyone on our team he seems like the most wasted to me. A proven scorer sent into oblivion to be completely wasted. He is in his fifth year now and should be producing for a team, instead he gets completely jerked around night to night so we can also fit two younger guys (Jimmer and IT) into the same position/role.

This post isn't really about production/minutes though. It's more about the feeling of how wasteful our team is. When you have pieces that could be traded for picks or better fitting parts you should try and use them instead of killing their value. Much like we tried to completely sabotage Reke by playing him at SF. Luckily for him though he is the clear option for being a starter so he still gets playtime. Thornton, being a solid 6th man bench guy doesn't have that luxury and as such has really been thrown to the wolves here.

I can't wait til the team is managed properly :mad: This rant brought on by looking at Thornton being almost useless on my fantasy team after being picked a keeper ;) I feel for you Thornton, I wish to see you in a stable role in the future!
 
I doubt we've destroyed him, but we may have destroyed his trade value, and like Reke, put a major dent in his career.

All of the above makes me considerably worried what a new regime is going to do -- have whoever it is been watching? Will they actually know there is talent here? But it also means I am looking forward with relief to the idea that everybody is going to be cleared out. Just clear it out and start over. As long as its in Sacramento, its all good. So many years now of not trusting our owners, front office, coaches, of being in fact pretty damn sure I would do a better job than any of them myself. Gets old. Would very much like to have somebody to respect again.
 
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I doubt that we've ruined him. I'm sure he still has confidence in his own abilities. The problem is, and will continue to be, is that everyone in the orginization is a dead man walking. That means every player on the team, is out to prove himself in whatever minutes he gets. Well, maybe not every player, but a vast majority of them. Your going to see a lot of one on one basketball with little passing. Most players will go tone deaf when Smart speaks. Your going to see more lopsided blowouts in the future. At seasons end, the entire coaching staff will be gone. Petire and Co. may hang around a bit longer with the draft coming up, but maybe not if a deal can get done quickly enough.

In short, this is a lost season. But, as Bricky said, if the Kings remain in Sacramento, its all worth it. There will be no trades before the trade deadline, and I suspect that at years end, we'll see the last of several players currently on the roster. Cisco is gone, and its possible that Brooks wants no further part of this mess, and opts out of his contract. I. Thomas is in the last year of his contract, and its possible that new ownership isn't in love with midget PG's. No offense I.T. ! Tyreke and JJ are both restricted freeagents, and who knows, new ownership may just amnesty Salmons final year of the contract, even with the penality. So this team is likely to look completely different next season. Lets just hope it looks different here in Sacramento.
 
I am not sure whether the stats back up the way I feel, but it seems like he doesn't have the same confidence. I recall him being more aggressive driving to the hoop in past years. This year feels like a lot more of his shots are just hoisting up the first look he gets while out on the perimeter. Your dead man walking term seems to fit the team. I see this to be a bigger problem for a middle of the line player like Thornton than it would be for the younger guys on the team, or the ones who no one would argue is a starter on just about any team in the league.

I hope for his sake (and a few other players we have) it really is seen as a lost season and other potential teams and coaches don't look too much into the performance of the guys this year. Would be even more of a shame for them to be judged on the ineptitude that has been going on.
 
As soon as we decided, and by we I mostly mean Smart/Petrie, that Reke at PG was not deserving of any more experimentation, MT's future with us was in doubt. Unless you play Reke at point next to MT for at least 10-15 mins a night, MT simply won't get enough time on this team. The fact he's inconsistent and more a volume future rather than efficient shooter doesn't help him.

He's not ruined as a player but I don't think we'll see the old MT until either he or Reke move on. BTW, there was a rumor this week by Marc Stein that Petrie is set on trading Reke and has given up on him and the reason Reke isn't being shopped is that there's a hold on all moves until the ownership situation is settled. Just a rumor, but if true it's good Petrie can't do anymore damage. Trading Reke, one of our two best players right now instead of looking to clear out some of our midget chuckers is insane. We have IT/Brooks/Jimmer/MT, and the guy Petrie has supposedly given up on is Reke? Finally hitting jumpers and posting career highs in shooting %'s.

Well, Petrie is getting free money right now. Can't make a move, doesn't have to make any moves. But that's better than the alternative. Again, just a rumor, but if true he hasn't learned a damn thing from his mistakes. Even if Reke somehow got us Gay, which was part of the rumor, or that we at least wanted to get involved in that trade, it would have left us with either Gay or Prince, next to the a backcourt consisting of IT/Brooks/Jimmer/MT. Just asinine given our problems.
 
rainmaker said:
As soon as we decided, and by we I mostly mean Smart/Petrie, that Reke at PG was not deserving of any more experimentation, MT's future with us was in doubt. Unless you play Reke at point next to MT for at least 10-15 mins a night, MT simply won't get enough time on this team. The fact he's inconsistent and more a volume future rather than efficient shooter doesn't help him.

He's not ruined as a player but I don't think we'll see the old MT until either he or Reke move on. BTW, there was a rumor this week by Marc Stein that Petrie is set on trading Reke and has given up on him and the reason Reke isn't being shopped is that there's a hold on all moves until the ownership situation is settled. Just a rumor, but if true it's good Petrie can't do anymore damage. Trading Reke, one of our two best players right now instead of looking to clear out some of our midget chuckers is insane. We have IT/Brooks/Jimmer/MT, and the guy Petrie has supposedly given up on is Reke? Finally hitting jumpers and posting career highs in shooting %'s.

Well, Petrie is getting free money right now. Can't make a move, doesn't have to make any moves. But that's better than the alternative. Again, just a rumor, but if true he hasn't learned a damn thing from his mistakes. Even if Reke somehow got us Gay, which was part of the rumor, or that we at least wanted to get involved in that trade, it would have left us with either Gay or Prince, next to the a backcourt consisting of IT/Brooks/Jimmer/MT. Just asinine given our problems.
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All I can say is good for Reke, sucks for us.
 
MT plus someone else would have been perfect to get a defensive big over the summer. Now his value is diminished.
 
WE havent destroyed anything. The incompitent kings headcoach has. Thornton AND Thomas need to be traded anyway. Memphis has a gaping hole on the perimeter for a player that can score the last time i checked.
 
Chupacabra said:
WE havent destroyed anything. The incompitent kings headcoach has. Thorntojn AND Thomas need to be traded anyway. Memphis has a gaping hole on the perimeter for a player that can score the last time i checked.
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Ha, goat sucker, we posted notes at the same time.

Edit: I don 't mean we said the same thing but the idea of trading MT is the key to solving the problem.
 
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The roster build is terrible. The backcourt looked full enough with Reke/MT/Jimmer and Salmons/Gacria capable of filling in. IT's emergence as a capable player made it even more full, so in response the team adds a scoring PG in Brooks. Perfect.
 
Heard a rumor MT's grandmother's illness was rocking him. That could explain some of it, but he can't find a rhythm if he doesn't play consistently. This team is such a paradox.
 
DesertFox said:
The roster build is terrible. The backcourt looked full enough with Reke/MT/Jimmer and Salmons/Gacria capable of filling in. IT's emergence as a capable player made it even more full, so in response the team adds a scoring PG in Brooks. Perfect.
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Correction, the backcourt looked full enough with Reke/MT/Beno. Every single move since those halcyon days 2 years ago has been a downgrade/****up. Both Geoff/the Maloofs, and the coach. At least Westphal knew how to ride his horses. He just was an idiot vis a vis Cousins. It makes me ill that I am reduced to missing him.
 
Bricklayer said:
Correction, the backcourt looked full enough with Reke/MT/Beno. Every single move since those halcyon days 2 years ago has been a downgrade/****up. Both Geoff/the Maloofs, and the coach. At least Westphal knew how to ride his horses. He just was an idiot vis a vis Cousins. It makes me ill that I am reduced to missing him.
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Hang in there. With new ownership and new coach as soon as next season, we will bounce back. I can't see Burkle/Mastrov going for a re-tread coach. I expect a proven coach to be hired next season. JVG or Sloan or McMillan and those guys won't jerk it around as much as Westphal and coach Dumb.

I am hoping that Tyreke is re-signed and we will start making some moves to shake up a ridiculous roster. I think we will keep MT in a more defined role off the bench (similar to Martin in OKC) and the rest of the sorry bunch in the backcourt and at SF will be gone one way or another.

There will be more 50+ point blowouts along the way but come next season, things will turn and we will make a run. Hopefully Burkle/Mastrov can buy the team and keep it in Sacramento. They strike me as guys who know how to win and what it takes to win. Burkle turned his NHL side around into a winner and I have no doubt he can do the same with the Kings especially since there already are some really good pieces on the roster at the moment that are getting jerked around and mis-used.
 
Marcus put out a tweet after the Sixer game that said something like "just waiting for him to let me loose, then ITS ON" its now deleted from his twitter.

not the first Kings player ive seen poop on Smart on Twitter this year
 
Imagine if the team had just stayed pat in 2011, and even just drafted a bust at pick 7.

Last year:
Reke/MT/Beno in the backcourt, with IT as the 3rdPG and Cisco as the 3rd SG.

At SF
Donte/Omri/Honeycutt/Garcia would have been a young mess, although I'd trade that clean slate for this current one. Plus, the team could easily draft Leonard or any of the players picked in the top 20 besides Jimmer and be in a decent situation.

Bigs: Dally over Hayes would have been better, but hindsight is 20/20.
JT/Cuz/Hayes at the bigs, plus a cheap vet to fill the roster and Whiteside waiting to be cut.


This year:
Backcourt:
Reke/MT/Beno (expiring contract) with IT nipping for backup minutes in his ideal role as a sparkplug.

At SF :
Omri(expring contract)/JJ/Garcia(expiring)Honeycutt

Bigs:
Cuz/JT/Hayes/Trob(although the team would probably have a better record and drafted lower, John Henson would be a great 4th big)

Imagine going in this offseason with an additional 10mil in cap space, a first round pick not owed to CLE, and no memory of Outlaw in a SAC uni. This roster doesn't even include a#7 pick from 2011.
 
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DesertFox said:
Imagine if the team had just stayed pat in 2011, and even just drafted a bust at pick 7.

Last year:
Reke/MT/Beno in the backcourt, with IT as the 3rdPG and Cisco as the 3rd SG.

At SF
Donte/Omri/Honeycutt/Garcia would have been a young mess, although I'd trade that clean slate for this current one. Plus, the team could easily draft Leonard or any of the players picked in the top 20 besides Jimmer and be in a decent situation.

Bigs: Dally over Hayes would have been better, but hindsight is 20/20.
JT/Cuz/Hayes at the bigs, plus a cheap vet to fill the roster and Whiteside waiting to be cut.


This year:
Backcourt:
Reke/MT/Beno (expiring contract) with IT nipping for backup minutes in his ideal role as a sparkplug.

At SF :
Omri(expring contract)/JJ/Garcia(expiring)Honeycutt

Bigs:
Cuz/JT/Hayes/Trob(although the team would probably have a better record and drafted lower, John Henson would be a great 4th big)

Imagine going in this offseason with an additional 10mil in cap space, a first round pick not owed to CLE, and no memory of Outlaw in a SAC uni. This roster doesn't even include a#7 pick from 2011.
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A lot of the moves since that season have been **** up and its not all hindsight either. A number of us have been very vocal about the moves we have made since then.

All that team needed was a good SF veteran to round out what was a pretty solid roster to pair with the 2 young stars in the making. Beno and Tyreke just clicked and Beno also played well with Thornton. Similarly the 3 headed monster frontcourt of Dally-Cousins-JT also just clicked and was giving headaches to every team we played. Even the Bynum-Gasol-Odom Lakers had headaches with that front court.

Now all the team needed was a solid veteran SF who would bring D, leadership and some deep shooting. Interestingly during that off-season there were 3 SF free agents that just fit the need. Battier, Prince and Kirilenko were the SF bunch that off-season. Just one of those would have made a huge difference.

All we needed to do that off-season was to re-sign our own FAs (Dally and MT), draft well at 7 or use that pick to get the hole at SF addressed and/or sign one of the 3 SF free agents that would have been perfect fits for us.

We did absolutely none of that. We just managed to **** up everything in the process and get smaller and crappier at the same time. Awesome management at display and it has nothing to do with hindsight and everything to do with lack of vision, planning or understanding what is required. It also has nothing to do with money because we are actually spending more now than we would have if we did what we were supposed to. Its just a complete mismanagement of a team ready to make their move.
 
It's difficult when two of your best players play the same position. I don't have any problem with our organization mainly going with Tyreke at SG; it's clearly been the best position for him to succeed. Unfortuantely, there aren't any minutes for Thornton if we keep Tyreke soley as a SG. I see him as trade bait numero uno this offseason once our ownership situation is all cleared up
 
If you run an offense like this you could make plenty of good players look like scrubs.

only a superstar talent could thrive, someone who can make miraculous shots and create for themselves over and over.
 
I don't even know if a superstar talent could survive 18 minutes a night with no discernible plan other than "every man for himself." An established star? Maybe, but didn't Smart do this same crap in GS?
 
Bricklayer said:
Correction, the backcourt looked full enough with Reke/MT/Beno. Every single move since those halcyon days 2 years ago has been a downgrade/****up. Both Geoff/the Maloofs, and the coach. At least Westphal knew how to ride his horses. He just was an idiot vis a vis Cousins. It makes me ill that I am reduced to missing him.
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The frontcourt was better in those days too! When we finally dealt Landry and had Cousins - Dalembert - Thompson. Then there was Terrence Williams the year after that who should have stuck around.

I was just looking at Beno's numbers in the Dalembert season. 14 points, 5 AST on .500 shooting for a guard. The second highest FG% on the team behind JT. This was in a season where Evans also averaged 5.6 AST and Thornton had 3.4 AST.

This year? No one is averaging more than 3.2 AST, and We have no defensive presence in the frontcout. We put on a clinic on how to **** up a rebuild.
 
One more thing on Beno - His per36 numbers are still very good. He will be a FA this offseason. Someone is going to get a really nice player, and I wouldn't mind it being us.
 
Spike said:
I don't even know if a superstar talent could survive 18 minutes a night with no discernible plan other than "every man for himself." An established star? Maybe, but didn't Smart do this same crap in GS?
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yes he did. thats why they hated him. and look at their team now.....
 
Before we go missing Westphal too much, he did pick Smart as his assistant coach, so he is partly to blame for unleashing the horror upon us... I seem to have erased from memory what was so bad about Musselman and Theus although I know I was on the fire-them-now bandwagon.

Someone needs to remind Smart who was the Kings leading scorer last season and give him some consistent minutes.
 
Krunker said:
Before we go missing Westphal too much, he did pick Smart as his assistant coach, so he is partly to blame for unleashing the horror upon us... I seem to have erased from memory what was so bad about Musselman and Theus although I know I was on the fire-them-now bandwagon.

Someone needs to remind Smart who was the Kings leading scorer last season and give him some consistent minutes.
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Pretty sure Petrie put Smart on Westy's staff.
 
rainmaker said:
Pretty sure Petrie put Smart on Westy's staff.
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I think someone else in the front office other than Petrie was given credit for it. The name Cooper comes to mind, but I wouldn't trust my memory on that. Not even sure someone in the front office has that name.
 
whozit said:
I think someone else in the front office other than Petrie was given credit for it. The name Cooper comes to mind, but I wouldn't trust my memory on that. Not even sure someone in the front office has that name.
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Wayne Cooper is VP of Basketball Operations, at least as of last summer.
 
MassachusettsKingsFan said:
One more thing on Beno - His per36 numbers are still very good. He will be a FA this offseason. Someone is going to get a really nice player, and I wouldn't mind it being us.
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So will Dalembert! Just saying! :D

Oh and in case people are wondering, we are stuck with Chuck for another 2 seasons after this one before he finally comes off the books. He is our new Kenny Thomas, the ultimate moveable piece.
 
Čarolija said:
So will Dalembert! Just saying! :D

Oh and in case people are wondering, we are stuck with Chuck for another 2 seasons after this one before he finally comes off the books. He is our new Kenny Thomas, the ultimate moveable piece.
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To be fair to Chuck he is way more valuable to us now than Kenny Thomas ever was, and commands a slightly lower price
 
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