Harrison Barnes

T

Turgenev

Starter
#4
#4
There has been speculation about his health and less speculation (I think) about his contract next year, which could also be a distraction. His personality might be the issue a little and feel someone slightly less talented but more obnoxious would be the more valuable piece right now.
 
N

New Era

Starter
#5
#5
Turgenev said:
There has been speculation about his health and less speculation (I think) about his contract next year, which could also be a distraction. His personality might be the issue a little and feel someone slightly less talented but more obnoxious would be the more valuable piece right now.
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You think somebody less talented but more obnoxious would be a better piece now? Can you elaborate?
 
T

Turgenev

Starter
#6
#6
New Era said:
You think somebody less talented but more obnoxious would be a better piece now? Can you elaborate?
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Well he has been one of the most talented guys on our team for a few years. But he hasn't ever really impacted winning. And maybe he's just too nice and polite. Think a Jae Crowder, who probably isn't as talented, but actually imposes himself on the game, would be better value.
 
TaxMan

TaxMan

Starter
#7
#7
Turgenev said:
Well he has been one of the most talented guys on our team for a few years. But he hasn't ever really impacted winning. And maybe he's just too nice and polite. Think a Jae Crowder, who probably isn't as talented, but actually imposes himself on the game, would be better value.
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At some point, this team does need one or two a-holes. Doesn’t necessarily mean HB needs to go, but we need a couple guys that can provide a little bit of muscle and attitude.
 
twslam07

twslam07

All-Star
#9
#9
The_Jamal said:
Suns just lost Cam Johnson to a torn meniscus. Could be an opportunity there to trade Barnes.
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It was already an opportunity before he went down, but yeah it definitely amplifies that opportunity.

I wonder if his injury actually gives us an opportunity to acquire Cam Johnson this year (assuming he’s going to be out for the year/majority of the year)…


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PHX Gets: Harrison Barnes & Davion Mitchell
PHX Gives: Jae Crowder, Cameron Payne, & Cam Johnson

PG - Paul / Mitchell
SG - Booker / Lee / Shamet
SF - Bridges / Okogie
PF - Barnes / Craig / Saric
C - Ayton / Landale / Biyombo

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SAC Gets: Jae Crowder, Cameron Payne, & Cam Johnson
SAC Gives: Harrison Barnes & Davion Mitchell

PG - Fox / Payne / Dellavedova
SG - Huerter / Monk / Davis / Moneke
SF - Crowder / Johnson / Okpala
PF - Murray / Lyles / Metu
C - Sabonis / Holmes / Len

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Swapping Crowder for Barnes would improve our defense and toughness, and based on how Barnes has been shooting this year, he’d help our spacing too. Meanwhile we get the long term fit of Johnson at SF/PF when he’s back healthy.

The Suns basically swap two players that can’t contribute this season for a solid SF/PF that fits well with the rest of their core. Mitchell can be their PG of the future that eventually takes over for Paul. Paul is a big mentor of his so I’m sure Mitchell would take advantage of being next to Paul the majority of the year.
 
twslam07

twslam07

All-Star
#11
#11
macadocious said:
I'd do that in a a hot minute, no chance the suns do that.
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The other alternative is…


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PHX Gets: Harrison Barnes & 2023 IND 2nd
PHX Gives: Jae Crowder, Dario Saric, & 2023 PHX 1st (Lottery Protected)

PG - Paul / Payne
SG - Booker / Lee / Shamet
SF - Bridges / Johnson / Okogie
PF - Barnes / Craig
C - Ayton / Landale / Biyombo

----------------------------------------

SAC Gets: Jae Crowder, Dario Saric, & 2023 PHX 1st (Lottery Protected)
SAC Gives: Harrison Barnes & 2023 IND 2nd

PG - Fox / Mitchell / Dellavedova
SG - Huerter / Monk / Davis
SF - Crowder / Okpala / Moneke
PF - Murray / Lyles / Saric / Metu
C - Sabonis / Holmes / Len

----------------------------------------


If we move Holmes at the deadline for expirings, we’d have enough cap space to maybe sign Johnson (or Washington, Williams, etc.) outright and have this core going into next year…

PG - Fox / Mitchell
SG - Huerter / Monk
SF - Murray / Okpala / Moneke
PF - Washington or Williams or Johnson (FA)
C - Sabonis
2023 Picks - SAC 1st / PHX 1st / SAC 2nd
 
S

serbiangoat

Starter
#16
#16
Giving up a 1st for Barnes is a massive overpay and clear act of desperation, Crowder for Barnes is a fair deal but I doubt Crowder wants to come to a team where a playoff spot is not a lock.
 
Chupacabra

Chupacabra

Starter
#17
#17
serbiangoat said:
Giving up a 1st for Barnes is a massive overpay and clear act of desperation, Crowder for Barnes is a fair deal but I doubt Crowder wants to come to a team where a playoff spot is not a lock.
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I wouldn't take that. If it's a lesser player than Barnes I want him to be younger, not older.
 
kb02

kb02

All-Star
#19
#19
Barnes has the highest defensive rating on the team and is one of the few natural connectors on this team, on both sides of the ball. Though he's not exceptional at it.

Yes, his offense hasn't been up to his career average--a smart GM would bet on him returning to his career average at 30. And bet on the still solid, full sized wing 3/4 defending. Get him for peanuts and watch him thrive in the playoffs.

Yhall's focus is on the wrong side of the curve.
 
F

Folsomkingsfan

Starter
#20
#20
kb02 said:
Barnes has the highest defensive rating on the team and is one of the few natural connectors on this team, on both sides of the ball. Though he's not exceptional at it.

Yes, his offense hasn't been up to his career average--a smart GM would bet on him returning to his career average at 30. And bet on the still solid, full sized wing 3/4 defending. Get him for peanuts and watch him thrive in the playoffs.

Yhall's focus is on the wrong side of the curve.
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Defensive rating can be misleading. If you look into more advanced defensive stats like def raptor it's not as favorable. He's still not close to the worst defender on the team, but he's not been the best.

Also Barnes has never lead us to any form of success in the 4 years he's been here and is known for disappearing over large stretches of time. We don't owe him a thing in terms of letting him work his way out of this massive slump. If there is a player on the bench who the coaching staff thinks will be more efficient we need to start them, no matter what that does to Barnes value.
 
kb02

kb02

All-Star
#21
#21
Folsomkingsfan said:
Defensive rating can be misleading. If you look into more advanced defensive stats like def raptor it's not as favorable. He's still not close to the worst defender on the team, but he's not been the best.

Also Barnes has never lead us to any form of success in the 4 years he's been here and is known for disappearing over large stretches of time. We don't owe him a thing in terms of letting him work his way out of this massive slump. If there is a player on the bench who the coaching staff thinks will be more efficient we need to start them, no matter what that does to Barnes value.
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Agree, but you need more Barnes types not less.
 
D

dude12

Hall of Famer
#23
#23
When we benched HB last night and went with the guards lineup, it was some of the best switching defense I’ve seen in awhile. We had a group of quick, aggressive players who took control of the game. We did give up some offensive rebounds during this stretch but overall, we came out ahead.

I just think we are better off going small at the 3, making sure Keegan and Lyles are entrenched at the 4 and Domas and Metu are the 5s. No room for HBs disappearing act.
 
R

Rain man

Starter
#25
#25
I know it doesn't work this way, but Barnes is having a not great, but respectable season if you eliminate the two Warriors games. Those were by far his worst two games, and I suspect that it is a matchup that is bad for him. If you eliminate the two Warriors games he is averaging 12/6/2.5, which is not terrible.

The interesting thing is Barnes' shooting splits. On two point shots he is shooting

Season: 50%- 23/46 (2.55/5.1 per game).
Career- 49% (3.8/7.7 per game)
Kings Career- 52% (3.45/6.65 per game)

So he is right on his normal average. The interesting thing is the volume. 2.5 less shots per game from his career average and 1.5 less shots per game from his Kings average. So he is shooting the same percentage from two, just on less volume.

From three point range, the problem is opposite. He is shooting the same amount of threes as his career average (but less than his Kings average), but making WAY less.

Season-- 5/30- 16% (.55/3.3 per game)
Career- 38% (1.3/3.5 per game)
Kings Career- 39% (1.7/4.3 per game)

If you could get him to his normal level of aggressiveness inside, while increasing his efficiency to a more normal level from outside, you would add an extra two and three per game, and you would be talking about Barnes averaging around 16/6/2.5 (i.e. right around his career averages).

That said, I have no idea why he is less aggressive inside and less accurate outside, but he isn't as far off as the stats would suggest, at least offensively.
 
Kingster

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#26
#26
Rain man said:
I know it doesn't work this way, but Barnes is having a not great, but respectable season if you eliminate the two Warriors games. Those were by far his worst two games, and I suspect that it is a matchup that is bad for him. If you eliminate the two Warriors games he is averaging 12/6/2.5, which is not terrible.

The interesting thing is Barnes' shooting splits. On two point shots he is shooting

Season: 50%- 23/46 (2.55/5.1 per game).
Career- 49% (3.8/7.7 per game)
Kings Career- 52% (3.45/6.65 per game)

So he is right on his normal average. The interesting thing is the volume. 2.5 less shots per game from his career average and 1.5 less shots per game from his Kings average. So he is shooting the same percentage from two, just on less volume.

From three point range, the problem is opposite. He is shooting the same amount of threes as his career average (but less than his Kings average), but making WAY less.

Season-- 5/30- 16% (.55/3.3 per game)
Career- 38% (1.3/3.5 per game)
Kings Career- 39% (1.7/4.3 per game)

If you could get him to his normal level of aggressiveness inside, while increasing his efficiency to a more normal level from outside, you would add an extra two and three per game, and you would be talking about Barnes averaging around 16/6/2.5 (i.e. right around his career averages).

That said, I have no idea why he is less aggressive inside and less accurate outside, but he isn't as far off as the stats would suggest, at least offensively.
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He's very mediocre on the defensive end. Not a great fit for a team that needs length and physicallity in that area.
 
W

Woot!

Starter
#27
#27
Chupacabra said:
Is a good player who has struggled 8 games into the season.
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Folsomkingsfan said:
Defensive rating can be misleading. If you look into more advanced defensive stats like def raptor it's not as favorable. He's still not close to the worst defender on the team, but he's not been the best.

Also Barnes has never lead us to any form of success in the 4 years he's been here and is known for disappearing over large stretches of time. We don't owe him a thing in terms of letting him work his way out of this massive slump. If there is a player on the bench who the coaching staff thinks will be more efficient we need to start them, no matter what that does to Barnes value.
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"Also Barnes has never lead us to any form of success in the 4 years he's been here..."

"Also the same is true of every player who has suited up for the Kings since HB was in middle school."

Yes, he disappears. And, yes, that's always been at least as much on the coaches and the ball handlers as on HB. You think he has simply refused to come off his corner three spot while they repeatedly call his number?

Fact is that HB has been a 16 mpg scorer on some of the league's most efficient shooting since he arrived in Sacramento while getting ridiculously few touches, especially given his team-leading minutes every year. I have no idea why he seems so passive waay too often. But, equally, I have no idea why his coaches and teammates don't do more to get him more involved. That latter piece is on THEM, not him.
 
pdxKingsFan

pdxKingsFan

So Ordinary That It's Truly Quite Extraordinary
Staff member
#28
#28
Kingster said:
Both Barnes and Holmes are not great fits for this team. Both are fairly puny, which is not what the Kings need. Maybe at the trade deadline we'll see something going down.
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If we wait until the deadline it will be too late. Hopefully when the December moratorium arrives also with teams that are trying to compete this year there will be some urgency to see what Barnes and Holmes can bring them and maybe we get a useful piece back. If we don't move on before the deadline we're a lotto team unless they suddenly figure out a way to fit into what Brown is doing.
 
pdxKingsFan

pdxKingsFan

So Ordinary That It's Truly Quite Extraordinary
Staff member
#29
#29
Woot! said:
Fact is that HB has been a 16 mpg scorer on some of the league's most efficient shooting since he arrived in Sacramento while getting ridiculously few touches, especially given his team-leading minutes every year. I have no idea why he seems so passive waay too often. But, equally, I have no idea why his coaches and teammates don't do more to get him more involved. That latter piece is on THEM, not him.
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Unfortunately this year it's on him when he can't hit spotted up open threes. I thought he'd be a valuable piece this year so perhaps in my case it's too high expectations but I just can't with him right now.
 
Chupacabra

Chupacabra

Starter
#30
#30
The Barnes hate isn't justified. Keegan is in a slump too, should we bench him? If Barnes plays really well for a whole year, do you look to trade him 10 games into the following year if he is in a slump?

I do dislike the "3rd option, 4th option" argument. It's as if Tom Brady is looking through all the different routes for the play he called. Barnes is an efficient scorer who can rebound and has decent defensive versatility. His shots start going in again and this thread will disappear to the nether realm of pages 2 and 3.
 
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