Greg Monro with the 5th pick

That may well be, but he'll be in the HOF and he won a lot of games for his team. If you have your choice between an a**hole who hits 50 homeruns and a nice guy that gets you 20, who do you want on your team?

The nice guy who gets me 20. I might be in the minority but I would rather lose with a team of good guy competitors than win with a team of Jerks. It's why I don't like Kobe, KG, Brandon Jennings, ect... I don't care how good they are I don't want them on my team. I haven't seen anything that would make me characterize Cousins as a douchebag or not yet, then again I dont exactly have much knowledge when it comes to college players. Confident, crazy, dramatic....fine; rude, inconsiderate, and disrespectful.... I'll pass.
 
Yeahhhh I almost totally disregard character. Its about winning. It should always be about winning. I cant understand any other perspective.
 
I agree that he will have to do a better job at handling the media. And I'm sure which ever team he ends up with, hopefully us, will school him in that area. What I was responding to was how his interviews would affect where he gets drafted, and I doubt the media interviews will have much effect in that area. But the team interviews are a different matter alltogether. I sincerely doubt he went in to the team interviews with the same attitude.

Sure, the team interviews are definitely more important, but unfortunately we weren't privy :(
 
The nice guy who gets me 20. I might be in the minority but I would rather lose with a team of good guy competitors than win with a team of Jerks. It's why I don't like Kobe, KG, Brandon Jennings, ect... I don't care how good they are I don't want them on my team. I haven't seen anything that would make me characterize Cousins as a douchebag or not yet, then again I dont exactly have much knowledge when it comes to college players. Confident, crazy, dramatic....fine; rude, inconsiderate, and disrespectful.... I'll pass.

Well I commend your integrity. It could possibly cost you at the box office, and in the won/lost column, but I admire a man that stands up for what he believes in. Personally I do have some lines that I won't cross. But so far, Cousins hasn't crossed that line. Other than being young and immature and with a bit of a temper, I saw nothing happen this year that convinced me I don't want him on my team. Perhaps the Kings did, and if they pass on him then we'll know.. So I'll leave it up to them.
 
The nice guy who gets me 20. I might be in the minority but I would rather lose with a team of good guy competitors than win with a team of Jerks. It's why I don't like Kobe, KG, Brandon Jennings, ect... I don't care how good they are I don't want them on my team. I haven't seen anything that would make me characterize Cousins as a douchebag or not yet, then again I dont exactly have much knowledge when it comes to college players. Confident, crazy, dramatic....fine; rude, inconsiderate, and disrespectful.... I'll pass.

I would go for a bunch of nice guys working together and actually playing the game too... well throw in a couple of good players with a solid idea of team play and spirit and you have a good basketball team..
 
The nice guy who gets me 20. I might be in the minority but I would rather lose with a team of good guy competitors than win with a team of Jerks. It's why I don't like Kobe, KG, Brandon Jennings, ect... I don't care how good they are I don't want them on my team. I haven't seen anything that would make me characterize Cousins as a douchebag or not yet, then again I dont exactly have much knowledge when it comes to college players. Confident, crazy, dramatic....fine; rude, inconsiderate, and disrespectful.... I'll pass.
Wow.

I am so glad you are not the GM, coach, or the owner of the Kings. That is just so rigid of a principle to follow especially in sports. Maybe we can use that mentality in the world of politics or if we are assembling a church choir, but we are nowhere near politics or church here when we talk about basketball.
 
I would go for a bunch of nice guys working together and actually playing the game too... well throw in a couple of good players with a solid idea of team play and spirit and you have a good basketball team..
Good.

Let us keep on passing on potential bad character guys eventhough they are the guys who can get the job done. Let us do it at the expense of winning.

Are you sure you want to build a championship team or you just don't feel the urgency of winning it all ASAP?
 
Good.

Let us keep on passing on potential bad character guys eventhough they are the guys who can get the job done. Let us do it at the expense of winning.

Are you sure you want to build a championship team or you just don't feel the urgency of winning it all ASAP?


Well who said these good guys have to suck any ways.. there are a mix of talented class acts out there too..

a championship team will be built.. good or bad it will be so long as the management does its job.

i just want us to stay clear of nabbing a bonzi, artest, coleman, marbury, etc.
 
He's got the size and length to actually play good defense. Why does everyone say he's a bad defender? He's not all world, but he's good.

From what I've seen and read just about everywhere one of his weaknesses is his defense whether it's man defense or post defense but you say he's a good defender?

He may have the ability to play good defense one day but a lot of guys in the NBA have the ability to play solid/good defense but they don't. You have to really want to be a good defensive player and enjoy playing defense to be good at defense. I don't think he has that desire.
 
From what I've seen and read just about everywhere one of his weaknesses is his defense whether it's man defense or post defense but you say he's a good defender?

He may have the ability to play good defense one day but a lot of guys in the NBA have the ability to play solid/good defense but they don't. You have to really want to be a good defensive player and enjoy playing defense to be good at defense. I don't think he has that desire.

I rewatched the Georgetown/Ohio first round NCAA game last night, and his defense was pretty good, though not perfect. I thought he did very well in several aspects:

He was good in man defense in the post. He didn't let smaller players around him, and he forced bigger players to take contested shots. He's relatively groundbound while he does it, but he's not giving up anything easy, and there was one particular possession where he completely stymied his man on a clear-out where his man made about 4 moves trying to get around him and just got nowhere.

He was good when he got switched onto smaller players on the perimeter. Not perfect, and sometimes they got past him (in which case he didn't recover well) but in general he stayed in front of them and forced them to pass.

He has good defensive court awareness as far as spacing issues go. When he was not directly responsible for the ball, he seemed to be very good at knowing where to drift to deny the cuts that the opponents were trying to set up. He also put effort into closing out on open perimeter shooters. He's too slow to actually do anything but rush the shot, but then again, it's not that often you find a guy coming out from the paint to contest a 3 who actually blocks the shot.

And I think he definitely put the effort out. Where I thought he was at his least effective was on help defense in the paint. He tended to stay home on his man when it was pretty obvious that the ballhandler was going to the hole. There were a few possessions where his man was cutting into the paint behind the ballhandler, kind of leading him to the play, and he still didn't find a way to bother the drive. I don't know if that can be taught, but that was his biggest deficiency in my eyes, in that single game.

And I know this comment isn't really about his offense, but he threw 3-4 phenomenally good, highlight-quality passes in one game.
 
Where I thought he was at his least effective was on help defense in the paint. He tended to stay home on his man when it was pretty obvious that the ballhandler was going to the hole. There were a few possessions where his man was cutting into the paint behind the ballhandler, kind of leading him to the play, and he still didn't find a way to bother the drive. I don't know if that can be taught, but that was his biggest deficiency in my eyes, in that single game.

Not sure if this is what's happening here, but I've seen a lot of college teams have their star big man stay at home instead of helping on D because you only get 5 fouls before you're out. More of a situational thing, I guess, though.

And good analysis overall. Monroe's defense may or not be one of them, but there are a lot of narratives in this draft (such as Cousins being a head case) that are just cut and pasted across the media and message boards that have never really been broken down and proven. Nice work dispelling (at least partially) this one.
 
From what I've seen and read just about everywhere one of his weaknesses is his defense whether it's man defense or post defense but you say he's a good defender?

He may have the ability to play good defense one day but a lot of guys in the NBA have the ability to play solid/good defense but they don't. You have to really want to be a good defensive player and enjoy playing defense to be good at defense. I don't think he has that desire.

When it comes to the scouting reports I read mostly DX, nbadraft.net, and Chad Ford. They're mostly complimentary of his defense. DX for some reason lists it as a weakness, but in their primary write-up of his sophomore year really praises how assertive and fundamentally sound he is. But in general, no, its not listed as a weakness. That's why I don't get why everyone on the board keeps saying it is.

What I personally see is what Capt Factorial describes. He's not explosive or quick, so he will never lead the league in blocks. But he's smart, with a big body and plays big. He doesn't leap and block all the shots, but he maks guys take tough shots over his long frame. Actually just had a good comparison pop into my head. He could easily be a Scott Pollard type on defense.
 
I rewatched the Georgetown/Ohio first round NCAA game last night, and his defense was pretty good, though not perfect. I thought he did very well in several aspects:

He was good in man defense in the post. He didn't let smaller players around him, and he forced bigger players to take contested shots. He's relatively groundbound while he does it, but he's not giving up anything easy, and there was one particular possession where he completely stymied his man on a clear-out where his man made about 4 moves trying to get around him and just got nowhere.

He was good when he got switched onto smaller players on the perimeter. Not perfect, and sometimes they got past him (in which case he didn't recover well) but in general he stayed in front of them and forced them to pass.

He has good defensive court awareness as far as spacing issues go. When he was not directly responsible for the ball, he seemed to be very good at knowing where to drift to deny the cuts that the opponents were trying to set up. He also put effort into closing out on open perimeter shooters. He's too slow to actually do anything but rush the shot, but then again, it's not that often you find a guy coming out from the paint to contest a 3 who actually blocks the shot.

And I think he definitely put the effort out. Where I thought he was at his least effective was on help defense in the paint. He tended to stay home on his man when it was pretty obvious that the ballhandler was going to the hole. There were a few possessions where his man was cutting into the paint behind the ballhandler, kind of leading him to the play, and he still didn't find a way to bother the drive. I don't know if that can be taught, but that was his biggest deficiency in my eyes, in that single game.

And I know this comment isn't really about his offense, but he threw 3-4 phenomenally good, highlight-quality passes in one game.

You beat me to it. I was going to say that his main weaknesses on defense were defending the pick and roll on the perimiter and help defense. He's not bad on man defense in the post. He doesn't have the quickest feet, but he seems to have a good feel for where his man is going. He'll never be a great shotblocker. Maybe not even a good shotblocker. His vertical isn't that bad for a guy his size, but he's not a quick jumper.
 
Just some thoughts- if he can keep himself between his man and the basket that's huge, especially with his length. I've noticed Aminu and Johnson are very effective at this, and at the college level at times that alone was enough to cause a turnover or just destroy the play the opposing team was trying to execute. Also if Monroe doesn't leave his feet often to contest shots he may not lead the league in blocked shots sure but he also may keep himself out of foul trouble more as well.
 
The nice guy who gets me 20. I might be in the minority but I would rather lose with a team of good guy competitors than win with a team of Jerks. It's why I don't like Kobe, KG, Brandon Jennings, ect... I don't care how good they are I don't want them on my team. I haven't seen anything that would make me characterize Cousins as a douchebag or not yet, then again I dont exactly have much knowledge when it comes to college players. Confident, crazy, dramatic....fine; rude, inconsiderate, and disrespectful.... I'll pass.

Nice guys finish last. In the competitive atmosphere where the best men play against the best men for the higest honors, there's almost no way to be nice and succeed. Now there are guys who are cutthroat killers on the court who are good citizens off it and I think that's what you shoot for. I think KG fits that model. I kind of like his schtick personally, but I can see how some people don't like the barking woofing mentality. However, he's completely devoted to his team and winning, and I think a good person off it (as far as I know). I'll take that any day. Shoot, you take any of the greats, Jordan, Bird, Magic...they were notorious trash-talkers and vicious almost psychotic competitors. Magic and Jordan were also far from saints off the court. However, for their chosen field, they were the best ever.
 
Just some thoughts- if he can keep himself between his man and the basket that's huge, especially with his length. I've noticed Aminu and Johnson are very effective at this, and at the college level at times that alone was enough to cause a turnover or just destroy the play the opposing team was trying to execute. Also if Monroe doesn't leave his feet often to contest shots he may not lead the league in blocked shots sure but he also may keep himself out of foul trouble more as well.

Part of having a high basketball IQ is not only knowing how to be effective on the offensive end but being able to use that knowledge to disrupt what the other team wants to do. I think Monroe gets that. And even though he doesn't have the feet or explosiveness to be a game changer on that end, he can be a major part of a good defensive scheme.
 
Nice guys finish last. In the competitive atmosphere where the best men play against the best men for the higest honors, there's almost no way to be nice and succeed. Now there are guys who are cutthroat killers on the court who are good citizens off it and I think that's what you shoot for. I think KG fits that model. I kind of like his schtick personally, but I can see how some people don't like the barking woofing mentality. However, he's completely devoted to his team and winning, and I think a good person off it (as far as I know). I'll take that any day. Shoot, you take any of the greats, Jordan, Bird, Magic...they were notorious trash-talkers and vicious almost psychotic competitors. Magic and Jordan were also far from saints off the court. However, for their chosen field, they were the best ever.


Good points. What about Barkley too- I remember during his playing days it was not uncommon to wake up and read in the paper of fist fights he had gotten into with locals at the bar/bars he decided to patronize after the game. Would I want to play with these guys? Hell no, but I probably do want them on my team. There's a place for everything and the ultra violent you throw into combat. It has to be the correct brand of lunacy though doesn't it? Having it slightly wrong can destroy the team and chemistry.
 
Good points. What about Barkley too- I remember during his playing days it was not uncommon to wake up and read in the paper of fist fights he had gotten into with locals at the bar/bars he decided to patronize after the game. Would I want to play with these guys? Hell no, but I probably do want them on my team. There's a place for everything and the ultra violent you throw into combat. It has to be the correct brand of lunacy though doesn't it? Having it slightly wrong can destroy the team and chemistry.

That's the kicker. Their "lunacy" is driven towards vanquishing their competition. In terms of the rest of their life they knew how to be professionals, partly because they knew that was key to achieving their ultimate goals. Cousins, my worry is that his attitude isn't driven in that direction. He might just be kid of an insecure guy who doesn't deal well with people or authority. That's dangerous in the small society of an NBA locker room. However, the other side is his teammates did speak well of him and when the games were played he was as committed to victory as ayone. So maybe he just has some growing up to do. I hope we get the opportunity to find out.
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGgJkrBU8Fs

Well Monroe had his workout.

he mentioned he did solo workouts due to scheduling but the Jazz said that was a specific request from his agent so no idea why he's dancing around that.

Still think Monroe can offer us some good skills.

been watching more vids of this guy and he has a real nice passing touch; he looks for people down low seems to find the target well.

Still like Cousins more personally.
 
That's the kicker. Their "lunacy" is driven towards vanquishing their competition. In terms of the rest of their life they knew how to be professionals, partly because they knew that was key to achieving their ultimate goals. Cousins, my worry is that his attitude isn't driven in that direction. He might just be kid of an insecure guy who doesn't deal well with people or authority. That's dangerous in the small society of an NBA locker room. However, the other side is his teammates did speak well of him and when the games were played he was as committed to victory as ayone. So maybe he just has some growing up to do. I hope we get the opportunity to find out.

As you know, I'm a fan of Cousins, and I agree with you that he played hard in all the games I watched, which was quite a few. So here's what I don't get with the criticism. Some are questioning his work ethic or his determination to become a good player. Using weight as one of the issues. But when I watch him play, he plays like someone thats committed to winning. Its not as though he looks like Oliver Miller, or even Derrick Coleman.

He stated that he's never lifted weights before. Not that uncommon in highschool. Could be they don't have an obligitory program at Kentucky. Whatever the reason, he's certainly going to be introduced to the weight room in the NBA. I'd certainly have to be convinced by him, that he's commited to becoming the best player he can. I guess what appeals to me is, if he was out of shape this year and still dominated, how good can he be when he's in the best shape of his life? Thats a scarey thought.
 
For you Monroe fans...check http://www.kingsfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37382 for a video of his workout.

Looked like he's got nice shot, but seems very slow. First move in the paint...a jumper. Oh boy

I'm pretty sure I dozed off while watching his workout video just now, but I don't remember. Good lord, he's slow. The face-up game is there, but who the hell is he ever going to beat off the dribble running like that? He did nothing to dispel the "black Spencer Hawes" notion here -- at least for me.

The song remains the same in my opinion: Cousins, Johnson, or Udoh.
 
For you Monroe fans...check http://www.kingsfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37382 for a video of his workout.

Looked like he's got nice shot, but seems very slow. First move in the paint...a jumper. Oh boy


...There's always the chance that that's what they asked to see from him at that time...

IMO, yea he looks slow and winded. For being so big he didn't get off the ground for too many dunks either. Shot is not bad but kinda slow release, not what we need from a big anyway... I say go with bpa at 5, and I really don't think at this point it's gonna be Monroe.
 
Wow; he looked like he was blowing bubbles there.

maybe he was doing sprints before that but he looked knackered.

one of the strengths of his game is passing, so this individual workout didn't really showcase that at all.

his post up games alright but boy he looks like he's on a treadmill when he runs.
 
For you Monroe fans...check http://www.kingsfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37382 for a video of his workout.

Looked like he's got nice shot, but seems very slow. First move in the paint...a jumper. Oh boy

I'm pretty sure I dozed off while watching his workout video just now, but I don't remember. Good lord, he's slow. The face-up game is there, but who the hell is he ever going to beat off the dribble running like that? He did nothing to dispel the "black Spencer Hawes" notion here -- at least for me.

The song remains the same in my opinion: Cousins, Johnson, or Udoh.

...There's always the chance that that's what they asked to see from him at that time...

IMO, yea he looks slow and winded. For being so big he didn't get off the ground for too many dunks either. Shot is not bad but kinda slow release, not what we need from a big anyway... I say go with bpa at 5, and I really don't think at this point it's gonna be Monroe.

I guess you see what you want to see. If you don't like Monroe, you watch that tape and he looks slow, gassed and has a slow release on his jumper. Somehow reminds you of Spencer Hawes.

If you do like him, like me, I was impressed that a 6'11 250 guy could be that smooth. The jumper looked impressive and I don't know how it comes off slow. As for being gassed, if I were the Kings, I would have pushed him very hard in that direction. So that's either a red flag or to be expected, depending on the pace of the individual workout.
 
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