[Grades] Grades v. TWolves 11/10/10

What killed us the most on this miserable night?

  • Tyreke's foul trouble

    Votes: 4 5.8%
  • Tyreke being passive

    Votes: 6 8.7%
  • Turnovers

    Votes: 15 21.7%
  • Poor free throw shooting

    Votes: 6 8.7%
  • Landry's continued stink leaving us without a 2nd option

    Votes: 8 11.6%
  • Players' inability to stay with Beasley

    Votes: 21 30.4%
  • Coach's refusal to double team Beasley

    Votes: 9 13.0%

  • Total voters
    69
Even Oklahoma city had a bad season when durant was a 2nd year player and westbrook was a rookie. Maybe we overrated our supporting cast but there's still no need to worry about the future. With some luck and good decisions on draft day we'll have our breakout season pretty soon.
 
All I can say is, Beno Udrih should never, never, never ever outrebound your starting PF.
There was spurts in the game where it finally seemed like we more or less got the hang of moving the ball. Good shots were taken, lots of passing, using the clock well. Glad to see that someone finally had the brains to figure out that if they had 3 defenders waiting for Tyreke at the free throw line, all you had to do was lob it up over the defence to Dalembert.

Some of my observations:

I really don't understand the coaching going on. Does Westphal even know the strengths of our players? Carl Landry - post scorer. Where do we make him take all his shots? No where near the basket. Jason Thompson - hustles for rebounds, scores off putbacks. Where do we play him? SF, on the perimeter.

Youth is one thing, but these guys have been playing basketball for a good number of years now. The level of stupidity on some of the plays that we make really amazes me at times. It's when you facepalm, and go "really? You're getting paid millions a year to do that? Really?" For example, Omri gets offensive rebound in the middle of the paint. Defence all around him, new shot clock. Pass it out and reset right? Nope, turn around shoot a fade get it swatted in your face. Tyreke, really known for his perimeter shooting. Pushes the ball up the floor, has no help but defence is already back. More than 15 seconds on the shot clock, no problem, turn around and pull up for 3! Inbounding the ball. Giving the ball to a guard on the break. These are common sense plays!!! Before I get carried away, I must remind myself of that good spurt of ball movement I talked about... at least they are learning slowly.

I never thought I'd say this but at this point I'm all for trading Landry and keeping Sammy long term. The guy has lost his touch (Free throws anyone?) and is clearly not being utilised to the best of his abilities by the coaching staff. Him being undersized is hurting us on both ends of the floor and I'm not comfortable having a PF shoot outside shots all day long as one of our main offensive plays. Dalembert has really made a big difference and we'd be a lot worse off without him. If he's willing to take much less money and stay with us I'm all for keeping him. He's also surprised me with some passing skills that I did not know he had.

Omri has been looking good so far, but still needs to improve on his passing and decision making. The same goes with Tyreke. It's good to see the two of them developing more chemistry and I think Casspi will benefit much more as Tyreke grows as a passer and an overall player. They could make a pretty good duo in the future.

Cousins has the potential, but right now he's trying to do too much. Typical rookie problem that he will overcome in time. This is the NBA, and it's not going to be as easy for him to dominate in the post with his size or quickness. He should try to refrain from putting the ball on the floor too much. If we could get him the ball down low a little earlier in the clock it would be good too. I noticed that when he gets the ball inside, he often immediately begins trying to back his defender down, turning to both sides trying to find space, picking up travelling calls etc. The best post players catch the ball, size up the defence, wait for guys to cut, then either face up or make a strong move.

Our team has great potential. But that's the problem ... it's just potential at the moment. I'm trying to be patient, but I'm just not convinced that the coaching staff are doing a very good job helping the players and team realise that potential at the moment.

Losing a game, at home, with Tyreke, to the lousier-than-us Twolves, without Flynn, without Ridnour, without Rubio, with Love being insignificant, is just not cool. This sucks.
 
I dont wanna start relentlessly bashing Westphal, but these L's we are piling up are falling directly onto him. It's just bad decision making and sadly getting Landry last year is looking more and more like a curse rather than a gift. I'm a huge Landry fan hell I even was all for him starting this year, but he HAS TO GO TO THE BENCH. He is playing the perfect game for a 6th man off the bench, except he's our damned starting 4. He is all offense and hustle offensive rebounds, there is no reason to have out there guarding Millic who will rebound over him many times over. I see nothing wrong with starting JT at the 4 or our rookie DMC since he wants to take charges all day, but Landry in our starting unit is killing us early in these games. We finally have a shot blocker finally after years of begging, dreaming for one and he is actually a damn good one.

Can PW just get this lineup out there and start winning some games????

Reke
Beno
Omri
DMC or JT
Dally...

Garcia and Landry are the prototype for bench production one can be a lights out on the catch and shoot, the other one can feast inside on the 2nd tier big men, we could all coach this team. I just don't understand why a guy I consider a GREAT coach can't see what's wrong here.

One more thing Beasleys 42 doesn't make me as mad as bummy super scrub Telfair looking like his cousin in his prime last night, just LOL at that one.
 
Not sure where to start.

It looks like Westphal has no clue as to what sort of team he has. This would be surprising if this wasn't basically the same team he had for most of last year with added size, and added size is what the coach and everyone wanted. To still be clueless on where players are effective and where they belong at this point is a bit head scratching. To let just one player torch you without offering any sort of counter is ponderous. To not take advantage of Cousins inside, when DMC was playing well early, is again ponderous.

The other issue is the team is just collectively dumb, at least in a basketball IQ sense. The former Kings teams were smart, but athletically lacking. Somehow this team has gone in the total opposite direction. Tyreke's fouls were dumb fouls. The team can't deliver a decent post entry pass. They don't attack at their advantages. Some of this can be explained via lack of experience, but not all of it.
 
I think it's time for them to move to Seattle.

On behalf of all of the Kings fans working hard behind the scenes hoping to keep the Kings here, please, never ever say anything like that again. The only way to keep the Kings here is to get a new arena built, and that will almost certainly require public support before all is said and done. That sort of statement only helps to erode, not shore up public support.
 
This game serves as more evidence - to me anyway - that Westphal is a significant part of the problem. He clearly doesn't know what he's doing.
 
Westphal basically said in the post match interview he isn't sure how to use Cousins and Cousins isn't sure how to utilise his own skill set.

Got to say i'm glad i didn't stay up till 4am to watch this one! Sounds like a horror show!
 
Lol that just proves that Westphal is a dummy. Use him as Zach Randolph. They can be similar players... fat, slow and no hops or defense.
 
I really hope we re-sign Dalembert at the end of the year, the man is a beast and can put in some points when needed.
 
Our team has great potential. But that's the problem ... it's just potential at the moment. I'm trying to be patient, but I'm just not convinced that the coaching staff are doing a very good job helping the players and team realise that potential at the moment.

I couldn't have said it any better myself. Have we seen any improvement from Jason Thompson? Donte Greene? Did we see Spencer Hawes improve his game? It seems most of our young players are around the same quality as when they came into the league. Omri doesn't seem improved either but I leave him out because it's only his second year.

Our team does not have more of an offensive flow than last year. There is no rhythm or consistency in what the offense does and defense is lacking. To be honest we look kind of lost right now. I would like to see more of a team effort and chemistry. Hopefully Westphal is working to instill that while developing these young players to succeed in their inherent strengths.
 
He was playing awful and was totally frustrated as usual lately.

Just what the hell game were you watching? The only thing he diid wrong was a couple of foolish turnovers. He had 7 points on 2 of 3 shooting and grabed 6 boards in 14 minutes of play. He's our future, and he needs to get some minutes. The only thing thats been preventing him from that, is foul trouble. Well last night entering the fourth quarter he had only one foul. I thought great! Now he can get out there and relax and just play. So where does he end up? Sitting on the bench. I'd like to remind Westphal that the huge poster outside ARCO isn't of him. Its a poster of Cousins. There's a reason the Kings put that poster up, and if Westphal doesn't recognize that reason, he'll be looking for job.

I'm sorry if I'm a little extreme right now, but I'm really angry at the moment. I said several times last year that this team had no idenity. Can you think of one thing it does well? Especailly if you remove Tyreke from the equation. They still have no idenity, and they don't appear to be developing one anytime soon. I think we can safely argue that the team has talent. I would argue that it has more talent than Minny does right now. But Minny comes in with the worse recond at 1 an 6 and takes us to the cleaners. They came in last in the league in offense, and second last in defense, and we made them look like one of the better teams in the NBA. I'll stop now until I cool off. All I can say is that its a good thing I'm not the GM of the Kings right now.
 
I couldn't have said it any better myself. Have we seen any improvement from Jason Thompson? Donte Greene? Did we see Spencer Hawes improve his game? It seems most of our young players are around the same quality as when they came into the league. Omri doesn't seem improved either but I leave him out because it's only his second year.

Our team does not have more of an offensive flow than last year. There is no rhythm or consistency in what the offense does and defense is lacking. To be honest we look kind of lost right now. I would like to see more of a team effort and chemistry. Hopefully Westphal is working to instill that while developing these young players to succeed in their inherent strengths.

If you keep drafting or bringing in players that are percieved to be talented and there's no improvement, who do you blame for that? If the offense doesn't look any better, and I could argue that it looks worse, than last year, who do you blame for that? I know were only 7 games into the season, but at some point I want to see some improvement. In everything! I've been watching basketball for over 50 years, and right now there are times when I don't have a clue what plays the Kings are running, or attempting to run. I finally saw them run the pick and roll a couple of times last night. For the most part they look like five individuals out there with no rhyme or reason to what their trying to do. Just who the hell do you blame for that?
 
Just what the hell game were you watching? The only thing he diid wrong was a couple of foolish turnovers. He had 7 points on 2 of 3 shooting and grabed 6 boards in 14 minutes of play. He's our future, and he needs to get some minutes. The only thing thats been preventing him from that, is foul trouble. Well last night entering the fourth quarter he had only one foul. I thought great! Now he can get out there and relax and just play. So where does he end up? Sitting on the bench. I'd like to remind Westphal that the huge poster outside ARCO isn't of him. Its a poster of Cousins. There's a reason the Kings put that poster up, and if Westphal doesn't recognize that reason, he'll be looking for job.

I'm sorry if I'm a little extreme right now, but I'm really angry at the moment. I said several times last year that this team had no idenity. Can you think of one thing it does well? Especailly if you remove Tyreke from the equation. They still have no idenity, and they don't appear to be developing one anytime soon. I think we can safely argue that the team has talent. I would argue that it has more talent than Minny does right now. But Minny comes in with the worse recond at 1 an 6 and takes us to the cleaners. They came in last in the league in offense, and second last in defense, and we made them look like one of the better teams in the NBA. I'll stop now until I cool off. All I can say is that its a good thing I'm not the GM of the Kings right now.

Honestly. I think the reason Cousins didn't get many minutes tonight was because SamD was playing very well. If you think of Cousins or Sammy as a PF, then maybe you have a beef, but I don't. At least with this tiny aspect of this particular game.

Outside that, beef is on sale.
 
If you keep drafting or bringing in players that are percieved to be talented and there's no improvement, who do you blame for that? If the offense doesn't look any better, and I could argue that it looks worse, than last year, who do you blame for that? I know were only 7 games into the season, but at some point I want to see some improvement. In everything! I've been watching basketball for over 50 years, and right now there are times when I don't have a clue what plays the Kings are running, or attempting to run. I finally saw them run the pick and roll a couple of times last night. For the most part they look like five individuals out there with no rhyme or reason to what their trying to do. Just who the hell do you blame for that?


I'm completely with you bajaden. I am very unsure if Westphal is the right coach for the Kings. I am hoping he will succeed because he will probably at least coach until the end of the season. All the coaching changes cannot be good for this team, but it is critical that the Kings find a coach that can bring out the best in all the young players we have.


*edit* how do you add the text at the top of the quote that says who originally posted it?
 
I just don't how you play Landry at the low post and Dally/Cousins at the low post. The opposing team packs it in the paint so tight it's ridiculous. If you have a dead-eye outside shooter as your lead guard, and two fine shooters at the wings, fine, then it will still work. But that's not the case with our team. It was amazing to me that Tyreke played as well as he did with the Wolves playing so close to paint (because our big guys were hanging out there). He did some incredible passes in very tight quarters. But that really just highlights the point - this offense is making it more, not less difficult for him to operate, and it's because Dally/Cousins don't fit with Landry in the low post (unless you want to make Cousins a high post center).

If you want to play Landry, play him with Thompson at the high post like last year. Then you open up the court for both Tyreke and Landry.

So if Thompson plays center and Landry plays low post, presumably with a second team, where does that leave Cousins? Heck if I know. And that's the problem that Westphal faces.
 
I just don't how you play Landry at the low post and Dally/Cousins at the low post. The opposing team packs it in the paint so tight it's ridiculous. If you have a dead-eye outside shooter as your lead guard, and two fine shooters at the wings, fine, then it will still work. But that's not the case with our team. It was amazing to me that Tyreke played as well as he did with the Wolves playing so close to paint (because our big guys were hanging out there). He did some incredible passes in very tight quarters. But that really just highlights the point - this offense is making it more, not less difficult for him to operate, and it's because Dally/Cousins don't fit with Landry in the low post (unless you want to make Cousins a high post center).

If you want to play Landry, play him with Thompson at the high post like last year. Then you open up the court for both Tyreke and Landry.

So if Thompson plays center and Landry plays low post, presumably with a second team, where does that leave Cousins? Heck if I know. And that's the problem that Westphal faces.

Look, Dwayne Wade won a championship with Shaquille O'Neal and Udonis Haslem as his bigs. Kobe is mostly a jumpshooter anymore, but Bynum and Gaosl don't exactly stop him, and neitehr di Shaq back inteh days when he was mostly a slasher. Its a difficulty, but its not THAT difficult. Post one guy on the far side of the lane, if his man leaves to come help, hit him with the pass for the dunk/layup. Have the other big come over and set a pick and roll/pop.
 
On behalf of all of the Kings fans working hard behind the scenes hoping to keep the Kings here, please, never ever say anything like that again. The only way to keep the Kings here is to get a new arena built, and that will almost certainly require public support before all is said and done. That sort of statement only helps to erode, not shore up public support.

Ummmm, okay. I'm entitled to my opinion. If they put a decent product on the floor then I would care more. Every game this year has been a bore fest (even the wins). I had way more fun watching them play last year. The arena is not going to get done so get used to the name Seattle Kings.
 
Ummmm, okay. I'm entitled to my opinion. If they put a decent product on the floor then I would care more. Every game this year has been a bore fest (even the wins). I had way more fun watching them play last year. The arena is not going to get done so get used to the name Seattle Kings.

Cut that out, seriously.

The fight goes on, both oncourt and off.

Also not sure how you could call a bunch of 18pt come from behind victories boring, but whatever.
 
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I didn't see that at all early. He struggeled when he came back in late but he was already sitting on the bench for a long time. That first stretch he had like 7 points and 5 boards in like 9 minutes. Sitting him for that long after made no sense to me. It's hard to break back into a game after sitting for that long.

He also had like 4 or 5 S-T-U-P-I-D turnovers in 9 minutes. We had 19 turnovers and would have 30 if he was left on the floor.

I don't get why people complain about Darnell Jackson getting minutes.. so far he earned every minute he got on the floor, and quite frankly should get more from how he plays.

Very true. I cant agree more with you, Jackson brings energy and hustle off the bench, something thats lacking in about every other big we have except for Dalembert.
 
Ummmm, okay. I'm entitled to my opinion. If they put a decent product on the floor then I would care more. Every game this year has been a bore fest (even the wins). I had way more fun watching them play last year. The arena is not going to get done so get used to the name Seattle Kings.

Cruising for a bruising, bro.
 
Look, Dwayne Wade won a championship with Shaquille O'Neal and Udonis Haslem as his bigs. Kobe is mostly a jumpshooter anymore, but Bynum and Gaosl don't exactly stop him, and neitehr di Shaq back inteh days when he was mostly a slasher. Its a difficulty, but its not THAT difficult. Post one guy on the far side of the lane, if his man leaves to come help, hit him with the pass for the dunk/layup. Have the other big come over and set a pick and roll/pop.

Three big differences: (1) Tyreke doesn't have the outside game yet of Wade (even during the Shaq years) or Kobe; (2) those teams you mention are excellent defensive teams, which makes for easy fast breaks; (3) they have dominant low post offensive centers (Gasol can also play the high post) that demand double-teams, which opens up the floor for Wade/Kobe drives. You are envisioning something that may occur two or three years from now, but not today. In today's world, you need to open up the floor with three or four excellent outside shooters to go with Tyreke. Also, it would help to have a much better defense. This defense is anything but dominant, which means they have to set up the offense much more than they would be doing with a team that really plays D and gets a lot of fast breaks. If the Kings would get a shut-down defender at the 3 and really get after it on D, then they could get away with this mediocre offensive set up and the lack of chemistry that they currently have and be a .500 team. I think that's the kind of team they want to have, but now they are in transition mode with the pieces not fitting and a defense that is pretty pitiful. The opposing teams are always going to go after the weakest link, and right now those are the 3, Landry, and Beno. The personell has to change to find a defensive identity.

Bajaden talks about lack of identity. In large measure that's because we have one-way players. Landry, who can shoot, but can't defend and rebound. Casspi, who can shoot (sometimes), but can't defend. Cousins, who can play offense, but not defense. Dally, who can play defense, but little offense. Greene, who can't do either offense or defense right now. Beno, who plays offense, but gets killed by quick guards on defense. The contrasts are striking.
 
Ummmm, okay. I'm entitled to my opinion. If they put a decent product on the floor then I would care more. Every game this year has been a bore fest (even the wins). I had way more fun watching them play last year. The arena is not going to get done so get used to the name Seattle Kings.

Why in sam hell would The Kings leave one city with arena issues for another city that recently lost its team because of arena issues?
 
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Far as I'm concerned...we're one impact veteran away...not to use him as an example, but I will since he's on the block...Carmelo Anthony, imagine a lineup of Evans, Beno, Anthony, Cousins, Dalembert.(we'd obviously have to give up a GRIP to get him, but Petrie's pulled off far worse robberies in the past) BTW...what ever happened to that other tall kid we had on the bench...White something???:rolleyes:
 
I'm completely with you bajaden. I am very unsure if Westphal is the right coach for the Kings. I am hoping he will succeed because he will probably at least coach until the end of the season. All the coaching changes cannot be good for this team, but it is critical that the Kings find a coach that can bring out the best in all the young players we have.


*edit* how do you add the text at the top of the quote that says who originally posted it?

I think our ideal head coach is already on our bench...last name: Elie.
 
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