Grades v. Rockets 11/21/09

[King Baller]

Sprained his finger?.. Really?
The NBA is way to soft nowadays. Tape that sh*t up and get out there.

Grant and Jerry explained that it is the middle finger on his right hand. It is a painful sprain that is aggravated with every dribble and every caught pass.

I hope Tyreke lets it heal up before he tapes it up and gets out there.

KB

 

[netseee]

As I've mentioend ot other people with player fetishes, you have to get off your anti-Spencer kick when he has a good game or you lose all credibility in critiquing his bad ones.

Exactly, people always tried to find a piece of bone in an egg

 

[bajaden]

I loved how competetive the Kings played, but I hate how STUPID they played... The countless mistakes, the contested shots, and just sheer stupidity out of a timeout is absolutely pathetic. Yes, I know they're young, but for some things there's just no excuse

Have you watched any college ball? Its not unusual to see both teams turn the ball over 5 or 6 times right in a row. It can be so sloppy as to be unwatchable. You can have one player, such as an Evans, or a Griffin, surrounded by teammates that will never get a sniff of the NBA. They simply can't play at the same level as a Griffin or an Evans. But they try and they make mistakes. And mistakes become common place. They become something you just accept and play through.

This is the enviorment these players come from. Playing all of their careers with inferior players, until reaching the NBA. Where the guy at the end of the bench that doesn't play, was the star of his team in college. Where the casual pass you made in college ends up being a basket at the other end of the floor in the NBA. Where if your Hawes, you go from college to where you were bigger than most of the players you played against, to the NBA where your now smaller than a lot of the players you play against.

If your looking for instant gratification, don't come to see the Kings. Go to a fast food chain of your choice. Its going to take a while for this team to adjust to a new coach and a new system. To adjust to new teammates, and in some cases, just learn to adjust to the NBA.

You had a young team last night, that went to war without Evans, Martin and Garcia. I don't know about you, but when I heard that Evans wasn't going to play, I chalked it up as a loss. And to show how emotionally connected I've become, without even realizing it, to watching Evans play. I almost lost interest in watching the game. Well shame on me. But it is a tribute to how much interest he generates. But my point is. This team of very young players minus two of their main players, went out and almost won the damm game.

Did they make mistakes? Yes! Of course they did. Thats why they lost. Thompson was out of sync all night long. They made turnovers at the worse possible times. And went cold on offense when the needed points the most in the fourth quarter. We all watched the game. Were all aware of the mistakes. And its fine to point out where we need to improve. I could go on endlessly about that. But if UCLA played the Greenbay Packers and lost by a field goal, I think a " Nice job, great effort " might be in order. Bad comparison I know. But I do think we need to keep perspective and gauge our expectations accordingly. This team isn't going to win the championship this year. And perhaps they actually did themselves a disservice with a four game winning streak, by raising the expectations of the fans. In truth, thats our fault, not theirs. Its up to us to be intelligent enough to temper our enthusiasm.

 

[Emma]

And to show how emotionally connected I've become, without even realizing it, to watching Evans play. I almost lost interest in watching the game.

I almost didn't watch it as well, for the same reason. However, I reminded myself that Thompson and Casspi are still going to give a solid effort, and that Beno has been possessed by some competitive spirit. So, I turned on the game and was fairly entertained. That kind of shows you the sort of hustle team the Kings have become. The kind of team that plays a game you want to watch regardless of who is on the floor. I'm impressed, and it should only get better.

 

[dbfish]

I think Spencer reads these posts and just got tired of getting beat down and he went out and did something about it.

 

[bajaden]

the rockets are missing their 2 best players, both of which are all-stars and they are also their 2 tallest players... in yao and mcgrady. we are missing martin.


oh you meant evans... hawes was playing so well that i for got that he wasnt there.

I love it when you attempt humor. Especially dark humor...

 

[dbfish]

Have you watched any college ball? Its not unusual to see both teams turn the ball over 5 or 6 times right in a row. It can be so sloppy as to be unwatchable. You can have one player, such as an Evans, or a Griffin, surrounded by teammates that will never get a sniff of the NBA. They simply can't play at the same level as a Griffin or an Evans. But they try and they make mistakes. And mistakes become common place. They become something you just accept and play through.

This is the enviorment these players come from. Playing all of their careers with inferior players, until reaching the NBA. Where the guy at the end of the bench that doesn't play, was the star of his team in college. Where the casual pass you made in college ends up being a basket at the other end of the floor in the NBA. Where if your Hawes, you go from college to where you were bigger than most of the players you played against, to the NBA where your now smaller than a lot of the players you play against.

If your looking for instant gratification, don't come to see the Kings. Go to a fast food chain of your choice. Its going to take a while for this team to adjust to a new coach and a new system. To adjust to new teammates, and in some cases, just learn to adjust to the NBA.

You had a young team last night, that went to war without Evans, Martin and Garcia. I don't know about you, but when I heard that Evans wasn't going to play, I chalked it up as a loss. And to show how emotionally connected I've become, without even realizing it, to watching Evans play. I almost lost interest in watching the game. Well shame on me. But it is a tribute to how much interest he generates. But my point is. This team of very young players minus two of their main players, went out and almost won the damm game.

Did they make mistakes? Yes! Of course they did. Thats why they lost. Thompson was out of sync all night long. They made turnovers at the worse possible times. And went cold on offense when the needed points the most in the fourth quarter. We all watched the game. Were all aware of the mistakes. And its fine to point out where we need to improve. I could go on endlessly about that. But if UCLA played the Greenbay Packers and lost by a field goal, I think a " Nice job, great effort " might be in order. Bad comparison I know. But I do think we need to keep perspective and gauge our expectations accordingly. This team isn't going to win the championship this year. And perhaps they actually did themselves a disservice with a four game winning streak, by raising the expectations of the fans. In truth, thats our fault, not theirs. Its up to us to be intelligent enough to temper our enthusiasm.

I will frame this post and put next to the TV so that when I catch myself yelling at the TV when the Kings do something stupid, I will be reminded that this is a young team and we need to be patient.
Deep breath in. Let it out. Have a beer and enjoy. Go Kings!

 

[Kingster]

Hawes

I don't think it's just coincidence that Hawes played well with Evans out. He knew he was going to get a lot more shots. He knew he wasn't going to be the garbageman, and would instead be more of the go-to guy, getting a lot more touches. So he knew he would have FUN. The bottom line is that he's positively uninspired to be a garbageman and very inspired to be the key cog in the offense. If he thinks he's integral to the offense he becomes more inspired to play D and get rebounds, but to be the 4th or 5th option is never going to cut it for him. (Personally, I think he should be the 2nd option on this team). I don't this dynamic is likely to change. You can't ask him to primarily be a rebounder/shot blocker when it's offense that is what makes him good. It's up to the Kings to either make him an integral part of the offense or trade him to some team that needs an offensive center.

 

[fnordius]

I will frame this post and put next to the TV so that when I catch myself yelling at the TV when the Kings do something stupid, I will be reminded that this is a young team and we need to be patient.
Deep breath in. Let it out. Have a beer and enjoy. Go Kings!

At least we didn't have anyone do like Nate Robinson in the Knicks-Nets game. He nailed a 30-foot 3 pointer at the buzzer at the end of the first quarter - but it was the Nets basket he was shooting at, not his own team's. Luckily for him, it was a fraction of a second too late to count...

 

[bajaden]

I don't think it's just coincidence that Hawes played well with Evans out. He knew he was going to get a lot more shots. He knew he wasn't going to be the garbageman, and would instead be more of the go-to guy, getting a lot more touches. So he knew he would have FUN. The bottom line is that he's positively uninspired to be a garbageman and very inspired to be the key cog in the offense. If he thinks he's integral to the offense he becomes more inspired to play D and get rebounds, but to be the 4th or 5th option is never going to cut it for him. (Personally, I think he should be the 2nd option on this team). I don't this dynamic is likely to change. You can't ask him to primarily be a rebounder/shot blocker when it's offense that is what makes him good. It's up to the Kings to either make him an integral part of the offense or trade him to some team that needs an offensive center.

There's a lot of truth to what you say. As I stated in an earlier post, he was the hub of the offense in college. The ball basicly ran through him. So I agree. I think he's having a hard time just being one of the indians instead of the chief. Not unique to him. a lot of players struggle with that concept when they come into the league. But water and talent rise to their own level. He's has to adjust. I don't think its a concious thing with him. I just think he hasn't quite figured out how to fit his game into the scheme..

 

[bajaden]

At least we didn't have anyone do like Nate Robinson in the Knicks-Nets game. He nailed a 30-foot 3 pointer at the buzzer at the end of the first quarter - but it was the Nets basket he was shooting at, not his own team's. Luckily for him, it was a fraction of a second too late to count...

Hey, you can't blame him for shooting at the closest basket.

 

[AriesMar27]

There's a lot of truth to what you say. As I stated in an earlier post, he was the hub of the offense in college. The ball basicly ran through him. So I agree. I think he's having a hard time just being one of the indians instead of the chief. Not unique to him. a lot of players struggle with that concept when they come into the league. But water and talent rise to their own level. He's has to adjust. I don't think its a concious thing with him. I just think he hasn't quite figured out how to fit his game into the scheme..

And that's why I wanted Sergio to start at pg when Martin went down, he won't shoot which means that hawes would be bumped up to the 2nd or 3rd option on offense. With beno in he is the 2nd option after Evans and we also have no scoring options off the bench. Casspi is a spot up shooter, Sergio doesn't or won't shoot and the same thing goes for Thomas.

Hawes could easily put up the same of not better numbers as Thompson if he weren't just the 5th guy on the floor. I also think that if nocioni had better shot selection it would open up more oppoortunities for hawes as well. Nocioni misses more shots than hawes takes per game. Hawes and Greene would greatly benefit having Sergio run the show than beno. Beno can still get his points coming off of the bench because he is the only other player that can get his own shot besides Evans.

And isn't it kinda eerie that beno and Evans put up almost identical numbers? It's crazy, like they take turns being the pg and sg without leaving the floor.

 

[CVKingsfan]

Have you watched any college ball? Its not unusual to see both teams turn the ball over 5 or 6 times right in a row. It can be so sloppy as to be unwatchable. You can have one player, such as an Evans, or a Griffin, surrounded by teammates that will never get a sniff of the NBA. They simply can't play at the same level as a Griffin or an Evans. But they try and they make mistakes. And mistakes become common place. They become something you just accept and play through.

This is the enviorment these players come from. Playing all of their careers with inferior players, until reaching the NBA. Where the guy at the end of the bench that doesn't play, was the star of his team in college. Where the casual pass you made in college ends up being a basket at the other end of the floor in the NBA. Where if your Hawes, you go from college to where you were bigger than most of the players you played against, to the NBA where your now smaller than a lot of the players you play against.

If your looking for instant gratification, don't come to see the Kings. Go to a fast food chain of your choice. Its going to take a while for this team to adjust to a new coach and a new system. To adjust to new teammates, and in some cases, just learn to adjust to the NBA.

You had a young team last night, that went to war without Evans, Martin and Garcia. I don't know about you, but when I heard that Evans wasn't going to play, I chalked it up as a loss. And to show how emotionally connected I've become, without even realizing it, to watching Evans play. I almost lost interest in watching the game. Well shame on me. But it is a tribute to how much interest he generates. But my point is. This team of very young players minus two of their main players, went out and almost won the damm game.

Did they make mistakes? Yes! Of course they did. Thats why they lost. Thompson was out of sync all night long. They made turnovers at the worse possible times. And went cold on offense when the needed points the most in the fourth quarter. We all watched the game. Were all aware of the mistakes. And its fine to point out where we need to improve. I could go on endlessly about that. But if UCLA played the Greenbay Packers and lost by a field goal, I think a " Nice job, great effort " might be in order. Bad comparison I know. But I do think we need to keep perspective and gauge our expectations accordingly. This team isn't going to win the championship this year. And perhaps they actually did themselves a disservice with a four game winning streak, by raising the expectations of the fans. In truth, thats our fault, not theirs. Its up to us to be intelligent enough to temper our enthusiasm.

Very well stated and I agree 100%! Thanks for sharing your perspective. I would not mind seeing this post repeated from time to time, as I suspect most of us are not accustomed to having such a young Kings team. Your description and explanation is a nice reminder of the need for patience (and understanding) with this young team. However, more importantly, it makes their successes that much more commendable! Go Kings!!!

 

[Kingster]

There's a lot of truth to what you say. As I stated in an earlier post, he was the hub of the offense in college. The ball basicly ran through him. So I agree. I think he's having a hard time just being one of the indians instead of the chief. Not unique to him. a lot of players struggle with that concept when they come into the league. But water and talent rise to their own level. He's has to adjust. I don't think its a concious thing with him. I just think he hasn't quite figured out how to fit his game into the scheme..

And I don't think Westphal has figured out how to use his versatility. Except for this past game, he's the odd man out. Maybe after this game Westphal can see that he's not just another big body out there.

 

[Kingster]

And that's why I wanted Sergio to start at pg when Martin went down, he won't shoot which means that hawes would be bumped up to the 2nd or 3rd option on offense. With beno in he is the 2nd option after Evans and we also have no scoring options off the bench. Casspi is a spot up shooter, Sergio doesn't or won't shoot and the same thing goes for Thomas.

Hawes could easily put up the same of not better numbers as Thompson if he weren't just the 5th guy on the floor. I also think that if nocioni had better shot selection it would open up more oppoortunities for hawes as well. Nocioni misses more shots than hawes takes per game. Hawes and Greene would greatly benefit having Sergio run the show than beno. Beno can still get his points coming off of the bench because he is the only other player that can get his own shot besides Evans.

And isn't it kinda eerie that beno and Evans put up almost identical numbers? It's crazy, like they take turns being the pg and sg without leaving the floor.

I totally agree about Beno. I was just thinking the same thing before reading your post. Beno is taking shots that Hawes should be getting. Hawes has a ton more offensive talent than Beno ever will. Beno should be given the orders asap: feed the ball to Hawes or else you can sit on the bench. The Noc comment also may be true. I really think this is a situation in which the young offensive talent gets the shaft because of the vets. The reason the maxim doesn't apply to Tyreke is that he's the one with the ball in hands.

 

[fnordius]

Beno should be given the orders asap: feed the ball to Hawes or else you can sit on the bench.

Most of the time lately, Hawes is the coldest shooter on the team, and spends a lot of time hanging around the perimeter. My impression is that the PG's primary duty is to get the ball into the hands of the player who is most likely to be able to score. Hawes is hitting one in eight of his three pointers, and his points-per-shot is down there (1.08) with Mason and Udoka. If Beno passes to him too often when he's at the perimeter, THAT is when I want Beno benched, not the other way around. I am assuming that Hawes is following the playbook, and has been told to hang out some distance from the basket on offensive plays. If so, he needs to adapt, and learn to hit more of his longer shots. Or they need to change the playbook to suit him better. Until one of those happens, on nine nights out of ten, I don't think he should be passed to any more often than others with similar PPS odds.

 

[AriesMar27]

Most of the time lately, Hawes is the coldest shooter on the team, and spends a lot of time hanging around the perimeter. My impression is that the PG's primary duty is to get the ball into the hands of the player who is most likely to be able to score. Hawes is hitting one in eight of his three pointers, and his points-per-shot is down there (1.08) with Mason and Udoka. If Beno passes to him too often when he's at the perimeter, THAT is when I want Beno benched, not the other way around. I am assuming that Hawes is following the playbook, and has been told to hang out some distance from the basket on offensive plays. If so, he needs to adapt, and learn to hit more of his longer shots. Or they need to change the playbook to suit him better. Until one of those happens, on nine nights out of ten, I don't think he should be passed to any more often than others with similar PPS odds.

hawes is out on the perimeter because he is either told to do so or westphal doesnt care that our only center is porched out on the 3pt line..... i really dont think westphal knows what to do with hawes, thompson is doing all of the dirty work in the paint and nocioni is shooting to his hearts desire(i cant believe people call martin one dimensional) and missing more times than not.... 6-16 and 0-4 from three point range? hawes is being treated like the red-haired stepson...

 

[bajaden]

And that's why I wanted Sergio to start at pg when Martin went down, he won't shoot which means that hawes would be bumped up to the 2nd or 3rd option on offense. With beno in he is the 2nd option after Evans and we also have no scoring options off the bench. Casspi is a spot up shooter, Sergio doesn't or won't shoot and the same thing goes for Thomas.

Hawes could easily put up the same of not better numbers as Thompson if he weren't just the 5th guy on the floor. I also think that if nocioni had better shot selection it would open up more oppoortunities for hawes as well. Nocioni misses more shots than hawes takes per game. Hawes and Greene would greatly benefit having Sergio run the show than beno. Beno can still get his points coming off of the bench because he is the only other player that can get his own shot besides Evans.

And isn't it kinda eerie that beno and Evans put up almost identical numbers? It's crazy, like they take turns being the pg and sg without leaving the floor.

Its taken me a while to weed through everything you just said. I suffer from looking at everything logically. You don't! And thats not a criticism, it just means you look at things from an entirely different prespective than I do. You suggest starting Sergio and go right to the results you expect from that. And, I can't argue against your suspossed results. First off. Let me say that I like Sergio. I've liked him for a long time, and, I would really like to see what he can do if given a legitimate spot in the rotation. I don't know how realistic that is when Evans is healthy again, which I hope is sooner than later.

However the problem with Sergio has always been that when he on the floor, he's the one you double off of. No one respects his outside shot, and most know that when he drives into the lane, its not to score but to distribute. Now in fairness, he's shot the ball fairly well so far with us. And, as much as I almost choke on the words as they come out of my mouth, Beno has been playing pretty good defense. He hasn't always been effective, but I can't fault his effort.

But back to Hawes. As much as we talk about Evans only being effective with the ball in his hands. I think the same is true with Hawes. Thats where I think the difference is between Hawes and Thompson. I think Thompson can be effective either way, but he's never a spectator. I think Hawes is most effective when you put him in the high post and put the ball in his hands. He's dangerous from there. Because he can do so many things. He can step back and shoot. Post up if he's not doubled. Hit cutters with backdoor passes, or drive and kick to the open man on the perimiter. He's good enough to do all those things.

Where he doesn't fit is in an uptempo game. Hawes fits best in a halfcourt game. Thompson, god love him, hits best in an uptempo game. he runs the floor better than Hawes, and he's also a better transiton player than Hawes on defense.

Its not easy being a head coach. Your given a lot of pieces. A lot of talent. And some of it fits, and some of it doesn't. I don't think Westphal would come out and say it. But I think he tried his best to find out what pieces didn't fit as early as possible. When the game is on the line, you want to put people on the floor that you trust, to give you the best chance possible to win.

I didn't touch on the Beno/Evans comparison that you made. The numbers may be erriely similar, but the players aren't. And I know your not suggesting that they are..

 

[Kingster]

Most of the time lately, Hawes is the coldest shooter on the team, and spends a lot of time hanging around the perimeter. My impression is that the PG's primary duty is to get the ball into the hands of the player who is most likely to be able to score. Hawes is hitting one in eight of his three pointers, and his points-per-shot is down there (1.08) with Mason and Udoka. If Beno passes to him too often when he's at the perimeter, THAT is when I want Beno benched, not the other way around. I am assuming that Hawes is following the playbook, and has been told to hang out some distance from the basket on offensive plays. If so, he needs to adapt, and learn to hit more of his longer shots. Or they need to change the playbook to suit him better. Until one of those happens, on nine nights out of ten, I don't think he should be passed to any more often than others with similar PPS odds.

Beno doesn't care where Hawes is on the floor. He's going to shoot it regardless...

 

[AriesMar27]

I didn't touch on the Beno/Evans comparison that you made. The numbers may be erriely similar, but the players aren't. And I know your not suggesting that they are..

they are totally different, but its crazy how they put up the exact same numbers... that goes to show you how useless comparing stats can be when comparing players... even if they are listed as playing the same position.