Grades v. Rockets 11/06

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Truconfidence said:
Morris Petersen isn't a nobody either, or Lamond Murray...so i think you are underestimating...
I am not "underestimating." Morris Peterson and Lamond Murray are grossly overrated, by just about any standard; Peterson has proven, if anything, that he's utterly ineffective when he doesn't start, and the same goes for Murray. They can be productive when they play big minutes, but if the starters are healthy, they're not going to play big minutes. Our reserves, for example, while possibly not as talented "on paper," are more acclimated to a reserve role, and are therefore more productive coming off the bench. It doesn't really matter which duo is better if they played thirty minutes a game, because neither duo is going to play thirty minutes a game.
 
Mr. S£im Citrus said:
I am not "underestimating." Morris Peterson and Lamond Murray are grossly overrated, by just about any standard; Peterson has proven, if anything, that he's utterly ineffective when he doesn't start, and the same goes for Murray. They can be productive when they play big minutes, but if the starters are healthy, they're not going to play big minutes.

That's just wrong, and sorry, you're credibility in this argument book a big hit.

Lamond Murray? maybe. He doesn't need starting minute as must as he needs a green light to shoot. Big difference.

When Vince was out to start the year, a lot of people picked Mo Pete on their fantasy teams, thinking he'd breakout. He played worse. He plays great when people set him up, whether he starts or plays 40 min makes no difference. If anything, he actually plays worse when starting, because the guy he's replacing is out, which is usually Vince. Without Vince and now Palacio setting him up, Mo Pete can be a dud.

The important thing for Mo Pete is to play with no pressure, weak D, limited offensive option, screening bench bigs (Bonner-style) and a set-up man. That works best off the bench.
 
peja16 said:
That's just wrong, and sorry, you're credibility in this argument book a big hit...

When Vince was out to start the year, a lot of people picked Mo Pete on their fantasy teams, thinking he'd breakout. He played worse. He plays great when people set him up, whether he starts or plays 40 min makes no difference. If anything, he actually plays worse when starting, because the guy he's replacing is out, which is usually Vince. Without Vince and now Palacio setting him up, Mo Pete can be a dud...
If this is true, then perhaps you can explain why it is that Peterson has statistically done better across the board when he gets more starts than he does when he comes off the bench? We're not evaluating intagibles here; statistics say he does better starting.
 
Mr. S£im Citrus said:
If this is true, then perhaps you can explain why it is that Peterson has statistically done better across the board when he gets more starts than he does when he comes off the bench? We're not evaluating intagibles here; statistics say he does better starting.

Ack. I've been sick of talking Raptors all week, but just when I thought I was out...

I'm surprised to hear that, could you post the link? Are the stats only the basic points, rebounds, assists, %. Does they account for minutes, +/-?

pts/48 is very misleading, I hope that's not a source of "proof".

Anyways, the thing with Mo Pete is he is entirely reliant on who's around him. When he started in place of Vince, he was either garbage (mainly FG%) or put up lots of garbage points. He is a dependable starter, and up until last year with defensive improvements, he would regularly get torched by superior starting players.

If he comes in and plays 10 minutes or 40 minutes, all that matters is whose around him. The main point of my post was you saying he's "utterly ineffective" when he doesn't start, which is not true.

He plays the same all the time, the only time his game changes is if it's garbage time, how weak the opponent's inside players are, and how poor their perimiter D is. Whether or not he starts dos not usually matter, except for the fact that better players draw more attention. And again, that has nothing to do with starting, just who else is starting.
 
peja16 said:
... I'm surprised to hear that, could you post the link?
The only link is NBA.com. I look at all eighty-two box scores for Toronto last season, and did the math. He averaged 6.85 ppg as a reserve, and 9.62 as a starter. The field goal percentages played out similarly, and if you insist on seeing them for yourself, I'll do the math after I get back from the Uniform Center; I have to take my blues in to get dry-cleaned.
 
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