Grades v. Raptors 02/07/10

[Asaf]

This kind of thing happens on the court all the time. Omri was out of position and Donte was trying to get him out of his way. If your posting up a smaller man the last thing you want, is one of your teammates moving close enough to you that his defender can help out on you. As it turned out the player defending Omri is the one that blocked Donte's shot. So Donte had a legitimate reason to be upset. Its called spacing the floor.

I would like to add that I wonder if the situation was reversed, and it was Omri yelling at Donte, if the euro fans would be so quick to judge.

As a "Euro" fan (again, contrary to popular belief, not all "euro" fans or even all Israeli fans are the same or have the same opinions about everything. It would really be nice if some people here started treating us as individual fans rather than an inseparable group) I think that team members should not be yelling at each other, period. It just hurts your teammates' confidence when you yell at them, and it's the coach's job to point out players mistakes, not the players' job. So yes, if Omri yelled at Donte I would definitely view it as negative behavior.

That being said, this sort of thing happens, and as long as it's not one player consistently yelling at his teammates, I don't think anyone should be making a big deal out of it. Omri and Donte are good friends, and I'm sure they won't be making a big deal about this either.

 

[steelevt]

Anybody noticed how all those guys "that plummet us the worse" in the poll are FRONTCOURT players!?



HMMMM

it's kevin martins fault. i dunno how but somehow it's his fault . i didnt get to see the game but when i looked at the boxscore, just seems like every other game. 3 good quarters. we were winning after the third. glad to see evans get some assists and read that if shots were falling, he could have gotten more. sometimes i wish the game consisted of only 3 quarters.

 

[OptimusRhyme]

This kind of thing happens on the court all the time. Omri was out of position and Donte was trying to get him out of his way. If your posting up a smaller man the last thing you want, is one of your teammates moving close enough to you that his defender can help out on you. As it turned out the player defending Omri is the one that blocked Donte's shot. So Donte had a legitimate reason to be upset. Its called spacing the floor.

I would like to add that I wonder if the situation was reversed, and it was Omri yelling at Donte, if the euro fans would be so quick to judge.

It was pretty uncalled for by donte, even if it was Omris mistake.. donte shouldnt of freaked on him like that. Thats how teammates lose chemistry, im sure Omris not the biggest fan of donte right now. And he has the right to be..

 

[EuroKing]

This kind of thing happens on the court all the time. Omri was out of position and Donte was trying to get him out of his way. If your posting up a smaller man the last thing you want, is one of your teammates moving close enough to you that his defender can help out on you. As it turned out the player defending Omri is the one that blocked Donte's shot. So Donte had a legitimate reason to be upset. Its called spacing the floor.

I would like to add that I wonder if the situation was reversed, and it was Omri yelling at Donte, if the euro fans would be so quick to judge.

dude Donte is one of my favorite players ...
so don't say "if the euro fans would be so quick to judge"
because the only one who was quick to judge was you

 

[bajaden]

dude Donte is one of my favorite players ...
so don't say "if the euro fans would be so quick to judge"
because the only one who was quick to judge was you

Didn't judge, just asked the question. If the shoe doesn't fit, don't wear it. Here's another question. Have any of you people ever played on a team. Teammates yell at each other all the time. Its just something that happens in the heat of battle. Its no big deal, and I'm sure Donte and Omri would tell you the same thing. I've yelled, and I've been yelled at. Its gone 10 seconds after it happens. Sometimes I think people are just looking for anything to ***** about.

 

[JB_kings]

Where are those "not much difference between Bosh and JT" comments you used to see all the time?

 

[mac]

We will start winning some games the day Kevin Martin realises he's not supposed to chuck contested 3s several times with 12 seconds left on the shotclock. We will start winning games the day Donte feels that he's earned the coach's and team's respect and doesn't need to go out forcing wild drives on offense to prove it. We will start winning games the day refes consistently call the opponents for defensive 3s violations. Andrea Bargnani was camping in the lane against tyreke for like 6seconds, no call. He would move, but one foot was still in the paint. We will start winning games when we come out actually executing on offense. If you come out and already are going one on one and chucking shots how do you expect to win? The opponents haven't even made any defensive adjustments and already you go away from your game plan. Or is our game plan to play iso ball every trip down?

 

[kupman]

I know that I am dreaming, but could you imagine Reke and Bosh together in Sacramento?

 

[kupman]

By the way, where was Brockman today?

 

[cstorm]

We will start winning some games the day Kevin Martin realises he's not supposed to chuck contested 3s several times with 12 seconds left on the shotclock. We will start winning games the day Donte feels that he's earned the coach's and team's respect and doesn't need to go out forcing wild drives on offense to prove it. We will start winning games the day refes consistently call the opponents for defensive 3s violations. Andrea Bargnani was camping in the lane against tyreke for like 6seconds, no call. He would move, but one foot was still in the paint. We will start winning games when we come out actually executing on offense. If you come out and already are going one on one and chucking shots how do you expect to win? The opponents haven't even made any defensive adjustments and already you go away from your game plan. Or is our game plan to play iso ball every trip down?

This call is so rare, that when it happens it really seems unfair to call it only once in a while. Maybe the refs have a little ticker in their pocket and when a player accumulates 5 or 6 3 second violations, they blow the whistle.

 

[Asaf]

I know that I am dreaming, but could you imagine Reke and Bosh together in Sacramento?

Honestly, I don't think Bosh is what we need. Sure, he would make us a better team and could probably take us to the playoffs, but we would still have no interior defense. If the team is dreaming about contending for a title in a few years, it needs to have a guy who controls the paint on the defensive end. It's been said many times before - our offense is fine, it's our defense that's killing us. Adding another offensive superstar like Bosh doesn't mean that we will be scoring 130 ppg. It might add 2-3 ppg with much worse point distribution between the players. We would still be getting killed every night on defense, and we would have the same chemistry problems that were caused upon Martin's return, of players being unhappy with the number of shots/touches they are getting and their overall influence on the team's play. At this point, Dalembert or Okafur would be much more useful to the Kings than Bosh, Amare, or Al Jefferson.

 

[mac]

Honestly, I don't think Bosh is what we need. Sure, he would make us a better team and could probably take us to the playoffs, but we would still have no interior defense. If the team is dreaming about contending for a title in a few years, it needs to have a guy who controls the paint on the defensive end. It's been said many times before - our offense is fine, it's our defense that's killing us. Adding another offensive superstar like Bosh doesn't mean that we will be scoring 130 ppg. It might add 2-3 ppg with much worse point distribution between the players. We would still be getting killed every night on defense, and we would have the same chemistry problems that were caused upon Martin's return, of players being unhappy with the number of shots/touches they are getting and their overall influence on the team's play. At this point, Dalembert or Okafur would be much more useful to the Kings than Bosh, Amare, or Al Jefferson.

Well it depends how you look at it. Bosh is a decent post defender, not a bad one so he's not a liability. Neither does he provide the goalie presence that Dalembert or Okafor would provide. However, practically all the other wing players not named Kevin Martin play decent defense, other than maybe Beno if you consider him a 2 guard. Our poor interior defense really starts with guards getting beat at the perimeter, forcing our bigs to come over. Because neither JT nor spence move their feet fast enough our rotations are usually slow and we end up picking up fouls. Bosh can improve our defense in this area because he's a better defender overall.

The other reason why a skilled PF would be good is for spreading the floor. Teams can't just collapse in the paint on Tyreke if he can kick it out to our big for a 15ft jumper.

 

[Bricklayer]

At this point, Dalembert or Okafur would be much more useful to the Kings than Bosh, Amare, or Al Jefferson.

No no. Just NO.

I desperately want interior defense and agree with anybody who point to it as a huge problem (and that's about everybody by this point). But we need interior defense ON TOP of the big interior star. And the big interior star is such a huge factor in basketball. Saying anything is much more useful than having a 24 and 11 interior player is just...well, wrong. We will never win a title without interior defense. But we will struggle to even win period until we get a major interior beast able to stare these star bigs eye to eye and do battle with them. If Bosh had been here from the beginning of the year, we are probably a borderline playoff team right now. No contender without defensive help in there, but able to meet almost every challenge we face. Star big + star little = win in the NBA.

 

[ParniValjak]

Honestly, I don't think Bosh is what we need. Sure, he would make us a better team and could probably take us to the playoffs, but we would still have no interior defense. If the team is dreaming about contending for a title in a few years, it needs to have a guy who controls the paint on the defensive end. It's been said many times before - our offense is fine, it's our defense that's killing us. Adding another offensive superstar like Bosh doesn't mean that we will be scoring 130 ppg. It might add 2-3 ppg with much worse point distribution between the players. We would still be getting killed every night on defense, and we would have the same chemistry problems that were caused upon Martin's return, of players being unhappy with the number of shots/touches they are getting and their overall influence on the team's play. At this point, Dalembert or Okafur would be much more useful to the Kings than Bosh, Amare, or Al Jefferson.

Adding Bosh to the mix would improve our offensive efficiency and make us MUCH more difficult to defend because of the 1-2, inside-out punch that Reke and Bosh would create.

Our offence is not without flaws. Where Reke is being defended well, we struggle to score. Having Bosh and Reke combo would make it much better and smoother offence.

You are right that we ALSO need an interior defender. Ideally you would want a young Tim Duncan or a young KG but those players are unique in that they are 2 way superstars. Not many of those around. Since you have no chance of getting one of those (since there are none around) you might as well try and get an offensive big man to pair with Tyreke and pair that offensive big man with a defensive specialist in the front court. There is no other realistic way around it I am afraid. Unless of course we draft a young Tim Duncan or a young Kevin Garnett this year.

 

[Asaf]

No no. Just NO.

I desperately want interior defense. But we need interior defense ON TOP of the big interior star. And the big interior star is such a huge factor in basketball. Saying anything is much more useful than having a 24 and 11 interior player is just...well, wrong. We will never win a title without interior defense. But we will struggle to even win period until we get a major interior beats able to stare these star bigs eye to eye and do battle with them. If Bosh had been here form the beginning of the year, we are probably a borderline playoff team right now. No contender without defense help in there, but able to meet almost every challenge we face. Star big + star little = win in the NBA.

Like I said, Bosh would make us a better team, and I agree we would be a borderline playoff team with him. BUT, the bottom line is we are scoring 101 ppg (before Martin's return it was around 104), and giving up 105. With Bosh on our team, even at the end of the rebuilding, when the team matures, would we be scoring 120 ppg? I would say probably not. At best we would be scoring around 107 (and that's super-optimistic), and we would still be giving up not much less than that 105 ppg, which would at best make us a borderline playoff team not only this year, but also 2-3 years down the road. What we really need is to keep that 101-104 ppg scoring rhythm, but get a big that would help us reduce the opponents' scoring from 105 to about 93-94 ppg, along with the improvement of our young players, 2-3 years down the road. Bosh alone isn't going to do that. Dalembert or Okafur? They will not be superstars, but they will definitely improve our defense, which is what we need. Just like if I have a wife and 3 kids, it would make more sense for me to buy a boring family car than a flashy sports car, even though the sports car is a much better car than the family car. You have to acquire according to your needs.

 

[Asaf]

Adding Bosh to the mix would improve our offensive efficiency and make us MUCH more difficult to defend because of the 1-2, inside-out punch that Reke and Bosh would create.

Our offence is not without flaws. Where Reke is being defended well, we struggle to score. Having Bosh and Reke combo would make it much better and smoother offence.

You are right that we ALSO need an interior defender. Ideally you would want a young Tim Duncan or a young KG but those players are unique in that they are 2 way superstars. Not many of those around. Since you have no chance of getting one of those (since there are none around) you might as well try and get an offensive big man to pair with Tyreke and pair that offensive big man with a defensive specialist in the front court. There is no other realistic way around it I am afraid. Unless of course we draft a young Tim Duncan or a young Kevin Garnett this year.

Well, if we get Bosh plus an interior defender, that's a possibility, but it means that you're giving up on Hawes and/or JT as the future bigs of this team. Personally, I think both of them will develop into solid and consistent offensive bigs, and wouldn't like to give up on them, but that's a matter of concept and opinion. I like the idea of rebuilding and seeing what the young guys will develop into. Getting a non-star, defensive minded big would fit into that concept. Getting an offensive star-big who is at most an average defender means taking the team in a whole different direction. That's legitimate, but it cuts into the rebuilding and forces you to move around more and more pieces, which inevitably slows down the process of building a team with title-contention aspirations.

 

[Circa_1985_Fan]

We have better talent... And at one point should have won a title

That's what the Dallas Mavericks have been saying for the past 10 years too.(at least they've been lucky enough to stay competitive longer than we did though)

 

[Tetsujin]

Is it just me or does the last 5 years feel like we're becoming the Detroit lions of the NBA? I'm sick of these losses where we manage to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

Was that an unfortunate pun about Omri?

 

[drogba]

Long ago we decided there could only be one grades thread at a time to avoid splintering discussion. But you, or anyone else for that matter, is free to post their own grades in this one as well.

i have grades for the Defance, in the last 20 games. it is easy and every body gets it i score it F

 

[dbfish]

Where are those "not much difference between Bosh and JT" comments you used to see all the time?

Gone with the wins.

 

[AriesMar27]

Gone with the wins.

i saw that movie and frankly dbfish, i just dont give a damn.

 

[ParniValjak]

Well, if we get Bosh plus an interior defender, that's a possibility, but it means that you're giving up on Hawes and/or JT as the future bigs of this team. Personally, I think both of them will develop into solid and consistent offensive bigs, and wouldn't like to give up on them, but that's a matter of concept and opinion. I like the idea of rebuilding and seeing what the young guys will develop into. Getting a non-star, defensive minded big would fit into that concept. Getting an offensive star-big who is at most an average defender means taking the team in a whole different direction. That's legitimate, but it cuts into the rebuilding and forces you to move around more and more pieces, which inevitably slows down the process of building a team with title-contention aspirations.

You mean the same way that trading Al Jefferson for KG, slowed down the process of building a team in Boston?!

Fact is that as of right now, we are about 2 or 3 moves away from building a contender. With Bosh and Tyreke, you are 1 move away from building a contender.

A star is a star, regardless of whether or not they cover all the holes. As I said, there is not a PF out there that will address all of our interior needs.

All I will say if we get Bosh, or even Amare on this team, we are a lot closer to being a contender than if we bring Dalembert or Okafor. These 2 guys are role players, important role player but it is the star power that wins in the NBA.

Lakers were nothing until they got Gasol who is still labelled as soft and average defender but he is a star that creates inside-outside threat with Kobe. Kobe couldn't do it with Kwame Brown playing C despite Kwame being a good low post defender.

It is much easier to get a player like Dalembert than it is to get a player like Bosh. We need that interior scorer to balance out the offence AND we absolutely need an interior defender.

And please, would people stop treating Hawes and JT like they are some sort of second coming of jesus. They can be good, productive NBA players. Good productive NBA players don't win you titles, stars do. For as long as their backside point to the ground, JT and Hawes will never be as good or as productive as Bosh or Amare. They just don't have the same talent level. Never have and never will.

 

[pshn80]

Well, if we get Bosh plus an interior defender, that's a possibility, but it means that you're giving up on Hawes and/or JT as the future bigs of this team. Personally, I think both of them will develop into solid and consistent offensive bigs, and wouldn't like to give up on them, but that's a matter of concept and opinion. I like the idea of rebuilding and seeing what the young guys will develop into. Getting a non-star, defensive minded big would fit into that concept. Getting an offensive star-big who is at most an average defender means taking the team in a whole different direction. That's legitimate, but it cuts into the rebuilding and forces you to move around more and more pieces, which inevitably slows down the process of building a team with title-contention aspirations.

I think I would rather have the problems you describe. If we expect the development of those two as you describe, the best thing we could do for them is to get a Bosh, for the team, and as a worthy competition for them. IMO it doesn't cut into the rebuilding, it enhances it.

 

[Tetsujin]

I think I would rather have the problems you describe. If we expect the development of those two as you describe, the best thing we could do for them is to get a Bosh, for the team, and as a worthy competition for them. IMO it doesn't cut into the rebuilding, it enhances it.

I think a frontcourt of Bosh and Hawes would be among the best offensive big men tandems in the league.

 

[DeaconBlues]

RE: the poll - As an individual performance I was thinking Millsap's was the most dominant (although Bosh and Wallace are up there) but I'd give the nod to the Raps' frontcourt over any of these others because Bargs had a decent contribution of his own - 22 and 8 on a cold night from outside.

Not sure why Tyreke had such a quiet night. Didn't Westphal get the scouting report bout Jose being the worst defensive PG in the league? Granted he gave a better performance then usual, but Reke still should have chewed him up and spit him out.

 

[FaStRmAn]

So when does Petrie pull the ripcord on this roster?

It is pretty apparent that this team is in freefall at this point. Wins are nearly impossible with the total lack of defensive effort in the post. Or is it defensive inability? Petrie needs to make a change just to shake this group up. They are complacent and according to the coach some are in cruise control. That is hard to believe as bad as some are playing. Hope Petrie makes that trade soon. Getting tired of watching players getting paid millions of dollars who are putting out minimum wage effort. The Kings need to get a post player who can play defense because they just dont have that right now.

 

[Rookie]

I think a frontcourt of Bosh and Hawes would be among the best offensive big men tandems in the league.

What about defense?

 

[Tetsujin]

That's what the Dallas Mavericks have been saying for the past 10 years too.(at least they've been lucky enough to stay competitive longer than we did though)

Dirk's knee didn't blow up, so that's a big big help.

 

[Tetsujin]

What about defense?

Nonexistant but most likely better than we have now (which isn't saying much), but at the same time Vlade and Webb weren't exactly Bill Russell and Dikembe Mutumbo out there and still managed to get the job done.

 

[Rookie]

Nonexistant but most likely better than we have now (which isn't saying much), but at the same time Vlade and Webb weren't exactly Bill Russell and Dikembe Mutumbo out there and still managed to get the job done.

true....I wouldn't mind giving it a chance if we get the opportunity.