[Grades] Grades v. Pistons 2/17/12

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

I don't know. I didn't think it was the small ball that did us in. Just crappy perimeter defense. Cuz and JT dominated the paint .. it was just the Piston's guards that destroyed our guards. Honestly, Evans should be able to shut down one of Stuckey/Prince/Knight .. but all 3 of those guys went off. The matchup's weren't as bad as we made them look.

I'd like to think IT can cover Knight, MT will always struggle on a scorer like Stuckey, and Evans vs. Prince isn't terrible. No worse than any other matchup we'd get in any other game.

This wasn't Smarts best game either. No IT in the fourth quarter made no sense no matter what 'matchup' garbage he said after the game. He's been one of our big 4th quarter performers in a big chunk of the games we have won. He should have been out there.

 

[Tetsujin]

If there is one positive after the game, its that it proved that it shut the "Greg Monroe is better than Demarcus" people up.

 

[BLNINJA #81]

Smart lost this game plain and simple. You have to be an idiot to not play IT in the fourth and sub in Salmons/Outlaw instead of Donte...

 

[Arkitect]

If there is one positive after the game, its that it proved that it shut the "Greg Monroe is better than Demarcus" people up.

I feel like that contingent was small and made up mostly of Detroit fans.

 

[VF21]

Weren't we in this game all the way? Didn't we almost win it? I've read the above and wondered where I was. What does anyone think of the change in the starting lineup? In it Thomas plays more, Salmons plays less, Tyreke handles the ball significantly less. Small ball? What does that mean or infer? I watched most of the first half. The new lineup looked pretty good. The bench that came in not so good but with care can do better. What do you think?

I guess you and I have the same optometrist because I saw things the same way. I can live with this loss for the simple reason that we could have won it if Naismith had smiled down on us just a tiny bit more. A critical turnover and a couple of missed layups aren't the end of the world.

As a plus, I absolutely loved watching IT.

Sure, there are still gaps and lessons to be learned, but this is a team I can watch for a whole 48 minutes and I haven't been able to honestly say that for each of the past few seasons.

 

[Kings Faithful]

Just got finished watching the game off my dvr... Really disappointing. We did everything right and still lost.... so upset right now.

 

[IfAt1st]

Anyone got a play-by-play of the last 3 minutes?
Might help figure out how the Kings lost this one....

 

[William Blake]

I still think the play that made us lose this one was that totally uncontested Knight drive. We had tons of people in the paint and all they did was stand around cluelessly and watch the opponent go up for the easy layup.

 

[Prince_XY]

I am beginning to suspect that Smart is not that smart after all. A lot of times and in many games his substitutions are poor. Also, his fondness of playing small ball will get us nowhere in this league. I think we will know sooner or later that we'll be needing a new coach again. Bye-bye Smart and bye-bye small ball.

 

[OnYouLikeGlue]

Completely agree here. Knight did pretty much all of his damage when Thomas wasn't guarding him. Thomas is the best of the guards at pressuring his man when he has the ball. And on top of that he's the guard most likely NOT to get caught daydreaming while he man doesn't have the ball. Too many times Evans and Thornton tend to watch the ball instead of focusing on their man, then their guy cuts right by them to the hoop or drifts to an open spot where they get an uncontested 3. This team simply plays better when Thomas is on the floor right now.

 

[mac]

What both worries me and relieves me is what the players said in post-game. Both IT and Cousins seemed rather pissed off with the lack of bball IQ on the team. Worries me because we don't want guys turning on each other. Relieves me because at least they know what the problem is. If you don't know what you're doing wrong, there's no way you can fix it.

 

[Glenn]

"It's all a process." Neat phrase but over used. Still ...... it is. I have often thought to myself (maybe I posted it and should ask for the adulation of the mods and long time posters) that this team will never give up because of the driving force of Cousins. I added to my internal thoughts the name of Isaiah Thomas this year. They have a competitiveness that is infectious and with Cuz, maybe even a bit frightening. Then they come out and say what is right and were backed up by Tyreke who was one of the people they were indirectly complaining about.

I think it was in the 60's when NBA basketball had a regular one day a week schedule on TV that I figured out that when a guy is hot, feed him the damn ball. Cousins and IT complained that Cousins should have gotten the ball more. Well, that's lesson one and it's a big one. Lesson 1 1/2 is that the hot one could be just about anybody or it could be at any time in the game. It could be IT, it could be Jimmer, it could be Tyreke, and we all know it could be Thornton. If Jimmer hits a three, get him the ball and see if he can hit two. His reputation is clear. Same with Marcus. When the big guy is going, when the beast is hungry, feed the damn beast! Cuz is getting to be a guy who provides horrendous matchup problems for some teams and just bad problems for other teams. Can't forget him. When he starts popping in 16-18 footers, feed the beast!!

Edit: Oh and before some clever person complains and says that I want Cuz to shoot 18 footers, that is not what was meant. The fact that I never said that is of no consequence in this forum. When he gets the ball on the right block 18 feet from the basket, he can do one of two things: he can shoot over you if you back off or can go around you if you come up to him. He seldom gets double teamed out there but he can also pass. If he has a signature move, this is where it starts. Last night he was shooting over Ben Wallace. How do you stop that?

 

[pshn80]

What both worries me and relieves me is what the players said in post-game. Both IT and Cousins seemed rather pissed off with the lack of bball IQ on the team. Worries me because we don't want guys turning on each other. Relieves me because at least they know what the problem is. If you don't know what you're doing wrong, there's no way you can fix it.

I didn't hear their interviews but your reporting of them encourages me. You're right, it shows some needed recognition on a player's part that there is BBIQ improvements to be made. Maybe such contention might be good. Hope so.

 

[Tyndel]

Some of the Post game stuff usually ends up on this channel:

http://www.youtube.com/user/kingsflix/videos

 

[Spok22]

If there is one positive after the game, its that it proved that it shut the "Greg Monroe is better than Demarcus" people up.

From Piston's forum:
"LOL, one game doesn't make Cousins better. The guy is still a big man shooting 45%. Monroe's body of work is a lot better, even if he was absolutely awful last night. Let's have some perspective here."

 

[Bricklayer]

Completely agree here. Knight did pretty much all of his damage when Thomas wasn't guarding him. Thomas is the best of the guards at pressuring his man when he has the ball. And on top of that he's the guard most likely NOT to get caught daydreaming while he man doesn't have the ball. Too many times Evans and Thornton tend to watch the ball instead of focusing on their man, then their guy cuts right by them to the hoop or drifts to an open spot where they get an uncontested 3. This team simply plays better when Thomas is on the floor right now.

Thomas got killed by Stuckey, that was his Little Bighorn.

Thornton couldn't stay in front of Knight at all, that was his, and unfortunately we went to that mathcup several times in the final two minutes, and it killed us.

Reke wasn't long enough to stop Prince once he got going, and turned his head several times on Stuckey.

Jimmer actually did ok in the half court, but was helpless in the open court where the size/athelticsim issues saw him blown by at will.


When we had IT on Knight, Thornton oin Prince and Reke on Stuckey we actually did all right. Although the only reason we did ok with the Thornton on Prince thing was because Prince was missing his early shots. Once he heated up there is nothing Thornton could have done. The further we deviated from that gameplan, the worse things got for us.

 

[Bricklayer]

What both worries me and relieves me is what the players said in post-game. Both IT and Cousins seemed rather pissed off with the lack of bball IQ on the team. Worries me because we don't want guys turning on each other. Relieves me because at least they know what the problem is. If you don't know what you're doing wrong, there's no way you can fix it.

http://www.sacbee.com/2012/02/18/4273114/gfdgjdfkljgfkldjgdfkljgkfd.html

Fairly mild at this stage. The one you have to watch is Cousins of cours,e but that wasn't bad...yet. IT's was more of a plea to be on the court himself. Nobody disagreed though. Thornton, who has to be dead center of the comment, agreed. Reke, who only had the one bad three really, but it was a bad one, also agreed. So its fine for the moment.

 

[The_Jamal]

http://www.sacbee.com/2012/02/18/4273114/gfdgjdfkljgfkldjgdfkljgkfd.html

Fairly mild at this stage. The one you have to watch is Cousins of cours,e but that wasn't bad...yet. IT's was more of a plea to be on the court himself. Nobody disagreed though. Thornton, who has to be dead center of the comment, agreed. Reke, who only had the one bad three really, but it was a bad one, also agreed. So its fine for the moment.

Those comments actually have me pretty excited. All 4 guys who commented understand the problem but did so without calling out each other or being an alpha dog. It's a great sign going forward that these guys actually like playing with each other and want to make the team work

 

[Glenn]

Those comments actually have me pretty excited. All 4 guys who commented understand the problem but did so without calling out each other or being an alpha dog. It's a great sign going forward that these guys actually like playing with each other and want to make the team work

Yup to everyone who has commented. And Brickmeister, I'm not worried about Cuz going overboard and actually popping someone in the nose. He is intense and surprisingly to me (I have been absolutely wrong in my assessment of the severity or correctibility of his temper problem) a guy like him cannot be ignored and when he is also correct, he becomes a leader.

As to popping someone in the nose, maybe Greene deserved it last year not that I condone it. It's just that the potentially immensely talented Donte has turned out to be a guy who we'll probably let go and I think it's because his energy is directed away from basketball or so it would seem. Maybe a swing at him was just Cuz's way of "asking" Donte to use his potential. Anyway, Donte has not been used by Smart and if there ever has been a year (read "Salmons") that a guy like Donte should be used, it's this year. He just is no good and it's a shame.

My respect level for Cousins is rising and it already was high.

 

[steelevt]

As to popping someone in the nose, maybe Greene deserved it last year not that I condone it. It's just that the potentially immensely talented Donte has turned out to be a guy who we'll probably let go and I think it's because his energy is directed away from basketball or so it would seem. Maybe a swing at him was just Cuz's way of "asking" Donte to use his potential. Anyway, Donte has not been used by Smart and if there ever has been a year (read "Salmons") that a guy like Donte should be used, it's this year. He just is no good and it's a shame.

My respect level for Cousins is rising and it already was high.

so if you are putting up good numbers, it's ok to start a fight with a teammate, especially if that teammate is a roleplayer. i mean the coach isnt playing greene anyways despite most of the fans seeing him play good defense and decent offensively these last few games when he got pt. gotcha.

 

[Glenn]

so if you are putting up good numbers, it's ok to start a fight with a teammate, especially if that teammate is a roleplayer. i mean the coach isnt playing greene anyways despite most of the fans seeing him play good defense and decent offensively these last few games when he got pt. gotcha.

No.

 

[Siranthony]

My take on the game. We should have won by 15. There was no one in the stadium because it apears the Pistons suck right now. The starting 5 dominated the game. Once we got a 10 point lead the coach took out either Tyreke and cousins or Tyreke and Thornton (can't remember). Then our team immediantly stated sucking. Still I thought we dominated for 2.5 qtrs. I thought Thomas was very good except for a couple of times he tried to do too much. When Salmons was in the game the level of suck increased to gigantic proportions. there is something about that guy. He just brings the team down IMO.
Somewhere in the middle of the third qtr the team seemed to lose energy and focus (Salmons?). We gave the game away. IT WAS VERY DISHEARTENING TO WATCH.

The silver lining is if we can have that kind of energy for 4 qtrs we would be good. Easier said than done.

 

[steelevt]

No.

ok must be a misunderstanding. when i read "i'm not worried about cousins popping someone in the nose", "maybe greene deserved it", "anyways, donte has not been used by smart" and "my level or respect for cousins is rising", i got the wrong idea.

its one thing to commend cousins for being a leader, for playing out of his mind, and for calling out a player that needs to be called out. but from what i remember, he got into with donte because he didnt pass him the ball when alot of us saw that cousins was being guarded quite well. that is not a good reason to take a swing at your teammate. a teammate that from most things ive read and seen is a really good teammate. i think cousins is a great player and think he should be the main piece that we build this team around. but that doesnt mean he should get his own set of rules or get a free pass if he is being disruptive or detrimental to the team.

 

[steelevt]

My take on the game. We should have won by 15. There was no one in the stadium because it apears the Pistons suck right now. The starting 5 dominated the game. Once we got a 10 point lead the coach took out either Tyreke and cousins or Tyreke and Thornton (can't remember). Then our team immediantly stated sucking. Still I thought we dominated for 2.5 qtrs. I thought Thomas was very good except for a couple of times he tried to do too much. When Salmons was in the game the level of suck increased to gigantic proportions. there is something about that guy. He just brings the team down IMO.
Somewhere in the middle of the third qtr the team seemed to lose energy and focus (Salmons?). We gave the game away. IT WAS VERY DISHEARTENING TO WATCH.

The silver lining is if we can have that kind of energy for 4 qtrs we would be good. Easier said than done.

i think i remember one of the pistons runs coming when cousins went out. but that was due to foul trouble so not much the coach could do. but i agree with the post in general. i still have no idea what salmons or outlaw have done to deserve to be on the court. salmons had 2 games but overall has stunk. donte played well in one half then was benched and got a dnp-cd. IT helped get us off to a great start yet didnt finish? overall i enjoyed how the kings played this game and agree that if we play this way to whole game, we would be good.

 

[pshn80]

Just got finished watching the game off my dvr... Really disappointing. We did everything right and still lost.... so upset right now.

I would agree that that the result was disappointing but the game itself was not disappointing for me. Lots of good play and not as much bad play.

 

[VF21]

Salmons ( C- ) -- in at the end of the first, and began the second again getting what looked like a set call for him out of the break, and bricking it. Had several more of those ball stopping plays where he jsut caught it and started looing for his shot and was going to take it no matter what. One thing if you are a star, if you are John Salmons...but of course that has always been an issue with him. He and Thronton seemed to feed off each other's selfish instincts there too. Maybe they should be kept apart, because together it looked like they wanted to get their own shot up before the other guy stole it from them. After a couple of early hits, was still missing that same stile of little pullup jumper he's been missing all season. Surprised however by getting the late minutes, and producing a great bullet pass for an assist. Didn't look terribly active on defense, but the derfenseive review showed him only getting scored over twice, and he stepped into the passing lanes for a couple of steals. Slightly improved, but still largely the same John Salmons show, just bringing his 5pts 1reb 1ast off the bench now rather than in the starting lineup..

I'm actually going to go back and watch the parts of the game where that happened because, for me, reading your assessment was a true "AHA!" moment.

 

[VF21]

http://www.sacbee.com/2012/02/18/4273114/gfdgjdfkljgfkldjgdfkljgkfd.html

Fairly mild at this stage. The one you have to watch is Cousins of cours,e but that wasn't bad...yet. IT's was more of a plea to be on the court himself. Nobody disagreed though. Thornton, who has to be dead center of the comment, agreed. Reke, who only had the one bad three really, but it was a bad one, also agreed. So its fine for the moment.

Isaiah has the heart and mind of a true player:

"I felt like I could have helped, especially down the stretch when I could have got the ball to the big fella and we could have worked through him," Thomas said. "But it's a learning experience. We learn as a team."

Hopefully, some of his knowledge and understanding that this is, in fact, a team game will rub off on his teammates as they learn that giving the ball gets you the ball.

 

[Siranthony]

i think i remember one of the pistons runs coming when cousins went out. but that was due to foul trouble so not much the coach could do. but i agree with the post in general. i still have no idea what salmons or outlaw have done to deserve to be on the court. salmons had 2 games but overall has stunk. donte played well in one half then was benched and got a dnp-cd. IT helped get us off to a great start yet didnt finish? overall i enjoyed how the kings played this game and agree that if we play this way to whole game, we would be good.

Agreed. I think we should stick with Thomas as long as he shows his energy out there.

 

[bajaden]

A missed layup by Tyreke. A mishandled pass under the basket by Thornton, and then forcing up a shot. A three point atempt with no King under the basket with less than a minute to play by Tyreke, and that was the ballgame folks. Three crucial mistakes in crunch time. Formula for a loss just about every time. Our bench for the most part sucked. They managed to lose just about every lead the starters left them with. The team played their best offensively when either IT or Jimmer was on the floor as the primary ballhandler. I have no explaination for why Smart went both IT and Jimmerless at the end of the fourth period. IT should have gone in when Jimmer went out. They suddenly looked like a ship without a rudder, and it was everyman for himself. Detroit fans Don't have a clue about Cousins. But I respect their loyality to Monroe.

The best matchup we had for Prince sat on the bench all night. Don't know why. And while I'm at it> Hickson is just terrible right now. Bring me the Birdman.

 

[Glenn]

And while I'm at it> Hickson is just terrible right now. Bring me the Birdman.

I second that emotion. Both of them.