[Grades] Grades v. Pacers 1/14/2014

[Mad D]

Pekovic looks like one of the villains from a very old Superman movie.

Yep. Big ass version of General Zod.

Except I would put my money on Pek if the two ever met up.

Wrong Krytonian Brick. His henchman, Non.

 

[JSin]

Having an agenda can effect your memory.

What's my "agenda", not thinking Cousins is perfect everytime he steps on the court?

 

[JSin]

No disrespect, but I feel quite strongly that you aren't qualified to speak on behalf of the 'Pacers perspective'. A 14-point lead to begin the 2nd half is by no means close to being out of reach. A team as successful as the Pacers are obviously aware of that fact, which is why they rarely become lackidasical or lose leads. Furthermore, the Kings got to within 8 with 1:28 remaining in the 3rd. The game didn't get out of reach until Paul George banked in a lucky 3 to end the 3rd then the Pacers went on another run during the first few minutes of the 4th, with Cuz on the bench, to extend the lead over 20.

In regards to Cousins, he was 8 for 12 in the 3rd and didn't play in the 4th. Simple math will tell you that he was 4 for 9 in the 1st half, a far cry from 4 for 15 and certainly not "something similar".

Honestly, how anybody that watched the entire game could possibly be critical of Big Cuz's performance is well beyond me. He was the sole reason the Kings weren't down by 25 or more by during the 3rd quarter. He kept it a game going into the 4th. He scored 31 of the Kings 74 points through 3 and did so at an efficient rate.

You feel quite strongly about that having no idea who I am? How do you know I'm not the Chief of Internet Pacers Perspective?

Early in the third Cousins was 4-12 to be perfectly accurate. From that moment forward, the Pacers would never have a lead less than 8 points (which they only had for 13 seconds...). You might think 8 points is close, but you have the best team in the NBA, playing one of the worst teams in the NBA. A team that is 19-1 at home, playing a team that is 4-10 on the road. The Kings made a big run in the 3rd and rarely had the lead under double-digits. There was little fear on the Pacers sideline of losing that game.

And I don't disagree that Cousins was the only reason this game was that close, but to think he was flawless is a bigger fault that not giving credit in this case. Cousins was too amped up for this game and it showed (0-2 with 2 early turnovers). He wasn't the reason was lost, he had a decent game, but he deserves some blame (maybe 1%).

 

[JSin]

Yeah, the Pacers considered the game so done they had all their starters out there, we repeatedly cut the lead beneath 10, and they left George on the floor in the 4th to finish us off before Cousins could come back. Truly they were coasting. If you are hearing that form Pacers fans that's just one of those pathetic little whiny attempts to deny the obvious post game.

Cousins was playing in a game less than a week ago when the Kings had a 28 point lead... you theory that playing starters indicates a game is still in jeopardy is flawed. And I never stated the Pacers were coasting, they are a good team that steps on the throat of an opponent. But you honestly think that the entire team was playing with the intensity that they would have been if the game was tied?

 

[Mad D]

Whoa this is the most JSin has posted in about eight years.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Shore duty tends to have that effect.

Oh, wait... J is in the army: all his duty is shore duty... Plus, he's an officer, so it's not like he works for a living. Kind of makes you wonder what he's been doing for the past three years?

 

[Bricklayer]

Wrong Krytonian Brick. His henchman, Non.

you are right

Zod was the bald guy in that one. I keep thinking of Hector Elizondo just because I have forgotten his face

 

[VF21]

More like sour attitude on many non-calls, more than a bit of pouting, etc. Not so much a tantrum as general demeanor that will not help him get to the All-Star game. Sure he was A in his playing both ends considering it was Hibbert but downgraded to poor attitude and pouting on many non-calls.

Hrm.

We must have been watching different games.

 

[Glenn]

Shore duty tends to have that effect.

Oh, wait... J is in the army: all his duty is shore duty... Plus, he's an officer, so it's not like he works for a living. Kind of makes you wonder what he's been doing for the past three years?

Hey, hey, hey!

 

[Glenn]

What's my "agenda", not thinking Cousins is perfect everytime he steps on the court?

You want to cut down Cuz so bad you can't do it when he deserves it. You do it after a great effort. It won't fly.

 

[JSin]

You want to cut down Cuz so bad you can't do it when he deserves it. You do it after a great effort. It won't fly.

Why would I want to cut down the best player on my favorite team if I didn't think he deserved it? I just fill the gaps, there is already enough IT hate, I always thought Gay would be a good second banana (although I am more weary than most about him based on his history, but I'm hoping it a C-Webb 2.0 situation), I'm a huge fan of McLemore (yeah, not much to discuss there). Cousins is a beast, but I don't think he is near his potential, and it pains me to watch fans think he does no wrong.

Case in point tonight, he was whining FAR too much for me at the end of the game, however, he made a HUGE clutch bucket on a great move coming out of a timeout with the game slipping away.

 

[Tetsujin]

Why would I want to cut down the best player on my favorite team if I didn't think he deserved it? I just fill the gaps, there is already enough IT hate, I always thought Gay would be a good second banana (although I am more weary than most about him based on his history, but I'm hoping it a C-Webb 2.0 situation), I'm a huge fan of McLemore (yeah, not much to discuss there). Cousins is a beast, but I don't think he is near his potential, and it pains me to watch fans think he does no wrong.

Case in point tonight, he was whining FAR too much for me at the end of the game, however, he made a HUGE clutch bucket on a great move coming out of a timeout with the game slipping away.

If that's the case, what do you see his potential as? 30-20 every night? 40-20? He's already putting up insane Shaq level per 36 and 48 stats. What are you asking of him?

 

[JSin]

Shore duty tends to have that effect.

Oh, wait... J is in the army: all his duty is shore duty... Plus, he's an officer, so it's not like he works for a living. Kind of makes you wonder what he's been doing for the past three years?

The end of land wars seem to have that effect, I would let you know what that meant, but I know you Navy guys don't see much sitting in the middle of a ocean on your boats all day.

Actually the timezone is as much to "blame" as anything else, hard to watch Kings games when they start 6 hours before you have to be up for work.

 

[JSin]

If that's the case, what do you see his potential as? 30-20 every night? 40-20? He's already putting up insane Shaq level per 36 and 48 stats. What are you asking of him?

More than numbers...

 

[Tetsujin]

More than numbers...

Such as...

 

[JSin]

Such as...

Emotional control
Maturity
Situational awareness
Defensive pride
Leadership
Winning mindset

Now he's a young kid, I would expect him to have to learn a bunch of this stuff, and I am hoping that Gay as a talented Vet would be the one to show him this stuff (maybe Shaq is as well, given his improvements this year).

 

[Tetsujin]

Emotional control
Maturity
Situational awareness
Defensive pride
Leadership
Winning mindset

Now he's a young kid, I would expect him to have to learn a bunch of this stuff, and I am hoping that Gay as a talented Vet would be the one to show him this stuff (maybe Shaq is as well, given his improvements this year).

And which of these is Demarcus severely deficient in now?

 

[rainmaker]

The end of land wars seem to have that effect, I would let you know what that meant, but I know you Navy guys don't see much sitting in the middle of a ocean on your boats all day.

Actually the timezone is as much to "blame" as anything else, hard to watch Kings games when they start 6 hours before you have to be up for work.

That's likely why your analysis is completely off and it comes across as not having a clue and basing your judgement off what Cuz did in the past when you were actually in a timezone which allowed you to watch.

Anyone with two eyes and a lick of common sense can see improvement across the board in the areas you list as problems. Some of them it's night and day compared to last year. Even national writers who bashed him at every opportunity are recognizing the change.

 

[JSin]

That's likely why your analysis is completely off and it comes across as not having a clue and basing your judgement off what Cuz did in the past when you were actually in a timezone which allowed you to watch.

Anyone with two eyes and a lick of common sense can see improvement across the board in the areas you list as problems. Some of them it's night and day compared to last year. Even national writers who bashed him at every opportunity are recognizing the change.

So, you might be suffering from a little confirmation bias in reading my threads, but I mention in nearly every post that is critical of Cousins that he has made improvements this year. So I guess I have a "lick of common sense". Just because I'm not completely with you, doesn't mean I'm against you.

 

[Glenn]

So, you might be suffering from a little confirmation bias in reading my threads, but I mention in nearly every post that is critical of Cousins that he has made improvements this year. So I guess I have a "lick of common sense". Just because I'm not completely with you, doesn't mean I'm against you.

He has made HUGE improvements and he is not perfect. I have trouble with your way of viewing him because it isn't in my nature to view people like that. Boogie has gone from a high risk pick to a potential all star and who knows, maybe a Hall of Famer. I think a great number of people have finally exhaled after 3 years of holding their breath. I cannot be overly critical to such a person and that's where we part company in the way we view them. I am not saying not to criticize. You would get less of a reaction from me if you were more balanced. This isn't the same jsin I remember from the past.

 

[JSin]

He has made HUGE improvements and he is not perfect. I have trouble with your way of viewing him because it isn't in my nature to view people like that. Boogie has gone from a high risk pick to a potential all star and who knows, maybe a Hall of Famer.

It's funny that you mention the hall of fame, those are my expectations for him and why my view of him is so harsh compared to the happy-go-lucky majority. I expect him to improve past the point of being a 20-12 big man, that doesn't satisfy my hopes for his career. I think he has the temperament to be a leader and impose his personality on a winning basketball team, but not yet. He has made improvements, but he still has a long way to go. In a perfect world, there would be a senior, seasoned NBA player (Chuck Hayes maybe) to show him how to do these things in the league and act like a professional, but unfortunately he is mainly on his own to learn these lessons.

Plus, I don't know how I can be more "balanced". My criticisms are minor tweaks to enhance his game. He is performing at an 80-85% level right now. I'm just pointing out the items that I think he can improve to complete that journey, while the impression I get from everyone else is that he has arrived as a finished product and we just need to wait for the world to find out. Do you think Cousins is at his ceiling? If not, why not?

 

[Glenn]

It's funny that you mention the hall of fame, those are my expectations for him and why my view of him is so harsh compared to the happy-go-lucky majority. I expect him to improve past the point of being a 20-12 big man, that doesn't satisfy my hopes for his career. I think he has the temperament to be a leader and impose his personality on a winning basketball team, but not yet. He has made improvements, but he still has a long way to go. In a perfect world, there would be a senior, seasoned NBA player (Chuck Hayes maybe) to show him how to do these things in the league and act like a professional, but unfortunately he is mainly on his own to learn these lessons.

Plus, I don't know how I can be more "balanced". My criticisms are minor tweaks to enhance his game. He is performing at an 80-85% level right now. I'm just pointing out the items that I think he can improve to complete that journey, while the impression I get from everyone else is that he has arrived as a finished product and we just need to wait for the world to find out. Do you think Cousins is at his ceiling? If not, why not?

He is learning the lessons from a guy named Shaq, a minority owner of the Kings. I think that in large part is the person who deserves credit for what we are seeing. He's 23. I think with Boogie it is difficult to know what his ceiling is as he has a large range of capabilities. I think the chopping at the ball thing has to stop although he may have learned that from Hayes who was a master at it. The coast to coast pg things need to stop or at least be used more judiciously. I don't want to take all the fun out of his game. Then get better at everything he can already do.

 

[VF21]

He is learning the lessons from a guy named Shaq, a minority owner of the Kings. I think that in large part is the person who deserves credit for what we are seeing. He's 23. I think with Boogie it is difficult to know what his ceiling is as he has a large range of capabilities. I think the chopping at the ball thing has to stop although he may have learned that from Hayes who was a master at it. The coast to coast pg thinks need to stop or at least be used more judiciously. I don't want to take all the fun out of his game. Then get better at everything he can already do.

BINGO!!!!

Jason Williams undeniably became a better point guard under Hubie Brown, But at what expense? He lost the one thing that made him so freaking much fun to watch - he lost his spirit, the thing that made him so special, the one thing so many of us loved him for.

I do not want Demarcus Cousins to become a perfect player because there are no perfect players. Yes, there is still room for growth and improvement but I do not want to see him lose his passion in the process.

 

[Glenn]

BINGO!!!!

Jason Williams undeniably became a better point guard under Hubie Brown, But at what expense? He lost the one thing that made him so freaking much fun to watch - he lost his spirit, the thing that made him so special, the one thing so many of us loved him for.

I do not want Demarcus Cousins to become a perfect player because there are no perfect players. Yes, there is still room for growth and improvement but I do not want to see him lose his passion in the process.

I think Malone understands this also as if he didn't approve of the coast to coast ramblings of the largest and most frightening pg in modern basketball, the ramblings would stop. Granted he might avert his head when it happens.

 

[randymoss1881]

Cousins doesn't need to get rid of the coast to coast thing he just needs to know when the right time to use it is. I would like to see him settle at 25-12-3 with good pick and roll defense. I believe he is already good at man to man defense but like someone said the swing at the ball move gets him 2 fouls a game he needs to stop that.

 

[Bricklayer]

It's funny that you mention the hall of fame, those are my expectations for him and why my view of him is so harsh compared to the happy-go-lucky majority. I expect him to improve past the point of being a 20-12 big man, that doesn't satisfy my hopes for his career. I think he has the temperament to be a leader and impose his personality on a winning basketball team, but not yet. He has made improvements, but he still has a long way to go. In a perfect world, there would be a senior, seasoned NBA player (Chuck Hayes maybe) to show him how to do these things in the league and act like a professional, but unfortunately he is mainly on his own to learn these lessons.

Plus, I don't know how I can be more "balanced". My criticisms are minor tweaks to enhance his game. He is performing at an 80-85% level right now. I'm just pointing out the items that I think he can improve to complete that journey, while the impression I get from everyone else is that he has arrived as a finished product and we just need to wait for the world to find out. Do you think Cousins is at his ceiling? If not, why not?

DeMarcus Cousins is turning in one of the greatest offensive seasons of all time for a 23yr old big man. Modern era of course. Wilt at 23 was probably averaging 40-20. But I've done these numbers any number of times. People don't even realize what they are watching. His numbers stack up well alongside Shaq, Hakeem, Duncan, easily eclipse guys like Mailman, Ewing etc. This is an epic season for a player his age. So yeah, if you are calling for even more you need to reset your calibration to something a little more realistic. Go check out the two tables I posted in the Boogie All star thread, and then know that since that time his numbers have actually gone up. He IS putting up flat HOF numbers for a 23 year old.

Will he get better as he gets older? Sure. In three years unless we crowd his team with chuckers he could easily be averaging 27 and 12, right amongst the all time greats. But this early? At this age? You should be honored to be watching it. The franchise could go another 60 years before seeing it again.

 

[Toasty]

He should a most improved player candidate.

 

[JSin]

DeMarcus Cousins is turning in one of the greatest offensive seasons of all time for a 23yr old big man. Modern era of course. Wilt at 23 was probably averaging 40-20. But I've done these numbers any number of times. People don't even realize what they are watching. His numbers stack up well alongside Shaq, Hakeem, Duncan, easily eclipse guys like Mailman, Ewing etc. This is an epic season for a player his age. So yeah, if you are calling for even more you need to reset your calibration to something a little more realistic. Go check out the two tables I posted in the Boogie All star thread, and then know that since that time his numbers have actually gone up. He IS putting up flat HOF numbers for a 23 year old.

Will he get better as he gets older? Sure. In three years unless we crowd his team with chuckers he could easily be averaging 27 and 12, right amongst the all time greats. But this early? At this age? You should be honored to be watching it. The franchise could go another 60 years before seeing it again.

Again, numbers. I never have said a word about his need to improve his "numbers".

If you think he is having an epic season, why are you so quick to think he will improve as he gets older? Is there a season above epic?

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Again, numbers. I never have said a word about his need to improve his "numbers".

If you think he is having an epic season, why are you so quick to think he will improve as he gets older? Is there a season above epic?

Yes, eleven. He could have an eleven season. Because it's one louder than epic.

Alternatively, for our younger fans, he could go Super Saiyan, and have an OVER 9000~! season.

 

[Padrino]

Again, numbers. I never have said a word about his need to improve his "numbers".

If you think he is having an epic season, why are you so quick to think he will improve as he gets older? Is there a season above epic?

it's contextual, as Brick has repeatedly pointed out. DMC is having an epic and historically great season for a 23-year-old, a season that suggests an impressive and dominant upward trajectory.