Grades v. Pacers 03/03

Most exciting Kings player of the game?

  • Kevin Martin

    Votes: 3 4.8%
  • Spencer Hawes

    Votes: 12 19.0%
  • Bobby Jackson

    Votes: 5 7.9%
  • Rashad McCants

    Votes: 43 68.3%

  • Total voters
    63
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Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
[yt=Song In Our Honor]TJN3PGqDRNg[/yt]

Let's see, theme...somebody in the game thread was begging for kittens in blenders, but that seems a little extreme, so how about Places You Do Not Want To Be, in pictures (stumbled across a grest stash of them the other day).

Cisco ( D+ ) -- started off this one very sloppy and had a whole slate of early turnovers. Then, just when he had maybe started to settle a little with a couple of second quarter hoops, he had to go to the sideline with what was intially reported as a dislocated finger, but later said to be a non-displaced fracture? Thought I saw them pull it back out though? Reminds me of a personal story which I will stick under a spoiler tag so as not to break up the narrative here:
near disaster I had back in law school during my 3rd year -- a group of us were playing a mostly friendly coed soccer game out in one of the fields below the school when one of the girls -- a good athlete and friend of mine from law review, took a fall and came up yelping. She was a tough girl too -- Texas tough. Grew up shooting things on her dad's ranch and was a long way from a delicate flower. Well, we all gather round, and her finger is obviously and grotesquely dislocated..or so it appeared. And I, having experience with such things, tell her that if she has somebody give it a quick yank to pop it back into joint, it will actually feel a helluva lot better. Which would have been true. If it had actually been dislocated. Fortunately she ignored the advice and went right over to the hospital (Penn has the region's premiere hospital right on campus), at which point they reset her broken finger. We were laughing about it later, but I can only imagine what a very very VERY ugly scene it would have been if I had hopped up there and given her "dislocated" finger a good hard tug to fix it. :eek: She would have kicked my *** all the way back to California, and I would have deserved it.
In any case, he sat out until half, and then returned for the third with his fingers taped together with reports it was a non-displaced fracture. Ok, you can play through that as long as it is braced well. But why oh why would he in our situation? What was the point? Why risk it? But actually I guess if his intention was to help us with our draft position, he made the right decision. He had several more turnovers that looked like they might have been finger related (fumbled balls etc.), he was missing everything, and just in general did not look right. Of course a bad finger does not explain at all why he kept on letting guys get so free around the perimeter, but that's another story. Now why Natt played him anyway is the bigger question. Especially since his position is the natural one for almost everybody Natt plays on our bench...except oh, I forgot, Nocioni is now a center, and Greene a power forward. Anyway, bottomline is Cisco was having a sloppy night, then he got hurt, and when he came back it certainly was not any better. Bet Cisco wishes he had just stayed at home.
AwesomeSpectacle.jpg

Leave. Now.

Thompson ( C- ) -- the rawest of raw numbers will say 13 and 7 here, but this was fugly. First of all, I know Jason is a rookie and all and still learning the league, but there are such things as scouting reports, not to mention this curious invention called television, that might have allowed him to get the idea that he might want to guard Troy Murphy at the three point line. Responsible for a number of sloppy turnovers in the first half, and in the mid 2nd had two on back to back possessions to help the Pacers open it up. Just finding new ways to struggle sometimes. Gave us a little push in the early third even as we faded otherwise. Was working hard on the glass in the 4th, but the turnovers, blocks against him, strips, and just general inefficiency killed him, and us. At least he seems to be doing a little better about the fouls. Still is picking up cheapies, but the last few games they haven't completely taken him out of the game.
OOOHHH.jpg

Turn around. Run.

Hawes ( B+ ) -- played an indifferent first quarter, but began to take advantage of a curious edge he had in this one -- a footspeed edge over all of the Pacers/ centers, Hibbert, Foster and Nesterovic. Got a couple of slams in the open court in the mid 2nd, taking advantage of the slow footedness of Hibbert, and spent much of the rest of the game really running out and collecting dunks. In fact, and this surprised me a little, his 19 points tonight tied a career high -- seems like with his offensive talent he would have had more at some point, but nope. He's never really put together a dominant full game. In any case, this wasn't either, as the offense aside from the dunks on the break was no better than normal and he resorted to chucking and missing a couple more threes, one of which was a panicky chuck in the final minutes of the game and helped finish any chance we might have had. He provided a little help around the rim on defense at times, but only a little as we got scorched once again, and the boardwork was at best middling. It was still a good game for Spence, and he showed good hustle on the break, including getting back defensively on one play to save a sure hoops after Bobby slowed the Pacers down. But take away the open court dunks and there wasn't all that much going on here.
edgeofahurricane.jpg

Hard to starboard captain! That is the leading edge of a hurricane in case you did not know.
 
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Martin ( D+ ) -- you know that game Kevin had a couple of games ago against the Clippers? He scored only 20pts, shot only 7-17, but I mentioned afterward that it was a distinctly better effort than normal with him helping the team be better in a variety of ways, making guys better, even trying a little on defense. I also mentioned that it may not have been possible against any team that cares more than the Clips. But you could at least still try. Because tonight...was Kevin trying? Or just mailing it in? Tonight he came up with 21 points, but it was a radically different feeling 21pts than the 20 he had on Friday. He did much of our early scoring again, but this time it was just Kevin scoring. He set nobody up, didn't help at all at anything but scoring, delivered nothing but touch fouls on defense. And was satisfied on offense just to try to force his way to the line with various flops and flails. This is another of those nights where that 3-12 from the field for Kevin was almost entirely his own doing -- so floppy and jerky and jumping towards people etc. etc. did he get that the whole point of the freakin' game -- put the ball in the hoop -- got lost in the ugly attempts to get to the line. Nor did he get anybody in foul trouble with it, and when you score like that, just keeping the ball and trying to run into somebody for a whistle, there is no momentum build up. No assists, no passing, no excitement. Came out in the third looking like maybe he was going to make a little scoring push, but it led nowehere and he just completely disappeared down the stretch (a healthy chunk of which was spent on the bench watching a far more effective McCants steal his minutes). Considerably outplayed by undersized journeyman Jarret Jack. Had 3 days off -- should not have been fatigue. Weak defensive team. A team that likes to run, which is Kevin's preference...this sort of effort is just hard to explain.
51u7ur.jpg

Worst job ever? Not even if you paid me like an investment bank CEO. (might be a photoshop however)

BJax ( B- ) -- this was not a great game by Bobby, and in fact in the the first half in particular he got torched on defense. But what people will probably remember from it were a whole string of great hustle plays shwoing that Bobby, at least, was trying. Had a hard time staying in front of superquick TJ Ford in the early going, hard enough that he was briefly replaced before the end of the quarter. Even was getting burned by Travis Diener of all people in the second quarter -- Travis was so confident he was actually running around screens setting Bobby up to be Dienerized on his way to a 4-4 12pt quarter. But Bobby made a great hustle save of an errant full court pass in the middle of the quarter, did better against an out of control Ford in the third quarter, hit a three over Diener to kind of start our final push in the 4th, and made another great hustle play to get back in transition defense and redirect Marquis Daniels long enough for Hawes to recover and block the shot. And so on the night the Pacers' decidedly medicocre PGs wetn for 29pts and 12ast against us, and ours...did not. But Bobby wasn't giving up even if he was getting his *** handed to him.
stolt-surf-storm.jpg

You know, I have me a simple rule designed to maximize my time here on this Earth -- it can even be expressed as an easily understandable mathematical formula: boat > wave. If at some point a boat I am on is, for any reason, confronted by a wave that is bigger than it is, then Bricklayer is leaving.

Nocioni ( B- ) -- in early in this one at PF since Jason simply refused to guard Murphy out there. Did do a better job of that, but not much else, and of course with him as a PF our interior defense was even more hopeless than when we have full size guys in there. He and Donte combined for a really crappy defneisve play to close the first half, as they were our two "bigs" on the final play to close the first half, and neither one rotated to cut off the full court driving layup by Jarret Jack to finish the half. Was not Noc's only time as a 6'7" "center" either, as with both Hawes and Jason in foul trouble in the late 3rd, he was back out there playing center in the super-smallball lineup as Natt got even dimmer. But much as might be said about that, and much could, it actually kinda worked for a few minutes until the Pacers figured it out. Noc had a major quickenss edge on Foster and used it to break the Pacers down for a while. But once Spencer returned, there were obviously no more minutes for a limited single position center like Noc. Certainly there was no room for him at SF where it was far more important to have the guy with the broken finger fumble balls and leave guys wide open all over the floor.
tornado1600x450.jpg

This is just not good.

Solomon ( B ) -- in briefly in the first quarter, but did nothing and did not last long. Did much better after half, and gave us a little push in the early 4th, using his speed on both ends against Diener -- I am hoping we fine him for acutally defending a little. That stuff can spread. I frankly did not see any 6 rebounds or whatever, but he was active and so I will buy it they say so.
volcanic-eruption.JPG

Um...too close!
 
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McCants ( B+ ) -- another impressive outing for Rashad knocked down a tic simply because again too much of it came after the game was mostly over. Got several hoops in the early second, inside and out, and almost threw away a full court pass to a streaking Bjax, but Bobby saved it between his legs to Spencer for the slam. Might have done the best job of anybody in the first half of guarding Murphy -- when caught on a switch against him actually muscling with him in the post and stonewalling him. Picked up the foul, but it was still the only physical defense we played. Helped us mount a mini-comeback in the early 4th attacking on the break. As Kevin sat on the sideline waiting to come in, McCants kind of took over down the stretch for us and we crawled back within shouting distance -- did it on both ends. On the break, from three, even using his muscle to defend the post. Continuing to make the argument about whether to try to resign him interesting. His physical presence in particular has been impressive.
shark-kayak.jpg

Um...dude. Paddle. Paddle very fast. (my rule about boats and waves applies just as well to boats and sharks) p.s. Actually come to think about it, probably best not to paddle -- make you look like a seal or something. Just sit there like a log. And pray.

Greene ( C ) -- in as a PF in the 2nd quarter against Murphy, as Natt has apparently been listening to Jerry about the game trending toward 3pt shooting SFs masquerading as PFs...everywhere except Boston, Cleveland, Los Angeles, New Orleans, Houston, Utah, San Antonio, Portland and every other contender not blessed with Dwight Howard inside to clean up all messes. But anyway, that can just go in the Jerry is an idiot file. Meanwhile Donte did not even do the thing he should be able to do against a slowfooted PF, and immediately got burned badly on a Murphy drive. Did come up with one "big man" moment with a nice little help block on Foster, but he and Noc did a terrible job on he final play of the first half where Jarret Jack was able to dribble the entire length of the floor in 5 seconds and go in untouched for a buzzer beating layup. Neither guy rotated or cut off the penetration -- no big man instincts.
tsunami_wave_coming_time_to_run.jpg

This is not funny because a lot of people died, but this is when they should have run -- the water suddenly pulls back and you see foam on the horizon.

tsunami_wave_coming_too_late_to_run.jpg

By the time it reaches this point, its too late.
 
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McCANTS!

I didn't see the game, but it looks exciting, and I want him to be our sparkplug for the next handful of seasons.

(((Knee Jerk reaction? Maybe...But it looks good to have something going good for the first time in ages)))
 
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I know this was a lin and all but holy $%*& that was pitiful. All the way around. The refs... TERRIBLE! Our defense... TERRIBLE! Ball movement, turnovers... TERRIBLE! Coaching... Well, you get the point. I don't mind the loss, what I hate is watching crap, and that is exactly what we got tonight.

On a side note, I am really starting to think that not only is Kevin Martin not a 1st tier type player, but I don't even think he is a second tier type player. Maybe on offense he's a second tier type, not on defense. With his speed and quickness you would think he could cause havoc... Nope. His game other than offense is very limited. He makes bad decisions and turnovers, doesn't rebound, doesn't assist, is not a leader, and rarely has the hot hand at the END of a game. I have always been a Kmart supporter because we drafted him late in the first, no one had a clue who he was, and he has become much better than anyone expected, but no longer am I going to have expectations of him. Maybe I shouldn't have from the beginning.
 
I know this was a lin and all but holy $%*& that was pitiful. All the way around. The refs... TERRIBLE! Our defense... TERRIBLE! Ball movement, turnovers... TERRIBLE! Coaching... Well, you get the point. I don't mind the loss, what I hate is watching crap, and that is exactly what we got tonight.

On a side note, I am really starting to think that not only is Kevin Martin not a 1st tier type player, but I don't even think he is a second tier type player. Maybe on offense he's a second tier type, not on defense. With his speed and quickness you would think he could cause havoc... Nope. His game other than offense is very limited. He makes bad decisions and turnovers, doesn't rebound, doesn't assist, is not a leader, and rarely has the hot hand at the END of a game. I have always been a Kmart supporter because we drafted him late in the first, no one had a clue who he was, and he has become much better than anyone expected, but no longer am I going to have expectations of him. Maybe I shouldn't have from the beginning.

A combination of problems. KMart had the dubious distinction of being called the savior of the franchise by default when he was the last one standing from the "other era". A good scorer that cannot do much else has been his mantra from the beginning. One of the few that did not come into the NBA with flashing lights and expanded his offensive game at the NBA level while learning on the fly with different coaches. Tough to do, and he is a unique talent. However, anybody who watches him day in and out sees he is simply that - a very talented scorer that never bothered to neither learn, or want to learn the concept of defense. Unfortunate but it's reality. Reminds me of Jamal Crawford in the sense that he truly does want the ball, with only the intent to score. A hell of a nice guy that is less selfish that Jamal, but being on a team that, for a lack of better word, lacks effective offensive execution, and lets just say it, has no real threats on offense, has been relegated to be the focus of many a defense during his tenure here. As much as his numbers have been inflated by the fact that we've had nobody else, he truly is a very effective scorer that doesn't need to dominate the ball to put up numbers, again sepparating him from Crawford. At the end of the day though, that's who I see him being compared to - a great scorer that does nothing else, and truly should not be the focal point or center piece of an offense.

I am though, salivating at the thought of him in the Vlade/Webb style Princeton offense. He would have been absolutely deadly. He can pass, and likes to defer (maybe too much at this point... just shoot the damn thing or drive to the hole, otherwise we're turning it over) and with his ability to cut to the basket he would be talked about as an all star selection. I thought about Rip for a second, but I don't think there is any other perimiter oriented scorer that puts up so much offense on so little attempts. His need to try to force his game to get to the foul line is well noted, he would be better served putting on some muscle and trying to finish plays, but it's something that would be overlooked if he was not the first option. In this situation, it exposes all his weaknesses. Every player has them, it's just that when the spotlight is on you, well, you better perform. KMart has not done so, especially on D, but he never will IMO, so there's no point in crying over it. I think it's a bit too late now to turn him into a solid defensive player, at least until he shows a change in his attitude towards that side of the ball. Anybody can play solid D if they WANT to. Majority of that side is mental. The physical aspect is easy, and rotations and plays are the least of the players problems. There are a couple of them in the leauge that just absolutely refuse to play it. Kind of funny when you watch it actually.
 
Bricklayer said:
Let's see, theme...somebody in the game thread was begging for kittens in blenders, but that seems a little extreme




I was begging you not to! And it worked.:D
 
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Rookies should play NBA live or NBA09 more ... It'll help with knowing what your opponents (supposedly) can do.
 
Martin ( D+ ) -- you know that game Kevin had a couple of games ago against the Clippers? He scored only 20pts, shot only 7-17, but I mentioned afterward that it was a distinctly better effort than normal with him helping the team be better in a variety of ways, making guys better, even trying a little on defense. I also mentioned that it may not have been possible against any team that cares more than the Clips. But you could at least still try. Because tonight...was Kevin trying? Or just mailing it in? Tonight he came up with 21 points, but it was a radically different feeling 21pts than the 20 he had on Friday. He did much of our early scoring again, but this time it was just Kevin scoring. He set nobody up, didn't help at all at anything but scoring, delivered nothing but touch fouls on defense. And was satisfied on offense just to try to force his way to the line with various flops and flails. This is another of those nights where that 3-12 from the field for Kevin was almost entirely his own doing -- so floppy and jerky and jumping towards people etc. etc. did he get that the whole point of the freakin' game -- put the ball in the hoop -- got lost in the ugly attempts to get to the line. Nor did he get anybody in foul trouble with it, and when you score like, that just keeping the ball and trying to run into somebody for a whistle, there is no momentum build up. No assists, no passing, no excitement. Came out in the third looking like maybe he was going to make a little scoring push, but it led nowehere and he just completely disappeared down the stretch. Had 3 days off -- should not have been fatigue. Weak defensive team. A team that likes to run, which is Kevin's preference...this sort of effort is just hard to explain.
51u7ur.jpg

Worst job ever? Not even if you paid me like an investment bank CEO. (might be a photoshop however)

BJax ( B- ) -- this was not a great game by Bobby, and in fact in the the first half in particular he got torched on defense. But what people will probably remember from it were a whole string of great hustle plays shwoing that Bobby, at least, was trying. Had a hard time staying in front of superquick TJ Ford in the early going, hard enough that he was briefly replaced before the end of the quarter. Even was getting burned by Travis Diener of all people in the second quarter -- Travis was so confident he was actually running around screens setting Bobby up to be Dienerized on his way to a 4-4 12pt quarter. But Bobby made a great hustle save of an errant full court pass in the middle of the quarter, did better against an out of control Ford in the third quarter, hit a three over Diener to kind of start our final push in the 4th, and made another great hustle play to get back in transition defense and redirect Marquis Daniels long enough for Hawes to recover and block the shot. And so on the night the Pacers' decidedly medicocre PGs wetn for 29pts and 12ast against us, and ours...did not. But Bobby wasn't giving up even if he was getting his *** handed to him.
stolt-surf-storm.jpg

You know, I have me a simple rule designed to maximize my time here on this Earth -- it can even be expressed as an easily understandable mathematical formula: boat > wave. If at some point a boat I am on is, for any reason, confronted by a wave that is bigger than it is, then Bricklayer is leaving.

Nocioni ( B- ) -- in early in this one at PF since Jason simply refused to guard Murphy out there. Did do a better job of that, but not much else, and of course with him as a PF our interior defense was even more hopeless than when we have full size guys in there. He and Donte combined for a really crappy defneisve play to close the first half, as they were our two "bigs" on the final play to close the first half, and neither one rotated to cut off the full court driving layup by Jarret Jack to finish the half. Was not Noc's only time as a 6'7" "center" either, as with both Hawes and Jason in foul trouble in the late 3rd, he was back out there playing center in the super-smallball lineup as Natt got even dimmer. But much as might be said about that, and much could, it actually kinda worked for a few minutes until the Pacers figured it out. Noc had a major quickenss edge on Foster and used it to break the Pacers down for a while. But once Spencer returned, there were obviously no more minutes for a limited single position center like Noc. Certainly there was no room for him at SF where it was far more important to have the guy with the broken finger fumble balls and leave guys wide open all over the floor.
tornado1600x450.jpg

This is just not good.
Are you insinuating with these photos that the Kings should leave Sacramento?;)
 
stolt-surf-storm.jpg

You know, I have me a simple rule designed to maximize my time here on this Earth -- it can even be expressed as an easily understandable mathematical formula: boat > wave. If at some point a boat I am on is, for any reason, confronted by a wave that is bigger than it is, then Bricklayer is leaving.

In this situation, where exactly would Bricklayer propose to go? :D
 
Bricklayer said:
stolt-surf-storm.jpg

You know, I have me a simple rule designed to maximize my time here on this Earth -- it can even be expressed as an easily understandable mathematical formula: boat > wave. If at some point a boat I am on is, for any reason, confronted by a wave that is bigger than it is, then Bricklayer is leaving.
In this situation, where exactly would Bricklayer propose to go? :D

Yeah... If I were on a boat confronted by a wave bigger than itself, I would definitely question the sequence of events/decisions that put me on that boat, but I would be doing absolutely everything in my power to stay on it.
 
Yeah... If I were on a boat confronted by a wave bigger than itself, I would definitely question the sequence of events/decisions that put me on that boat, but I would be doing absolutely everything in my power to stay on it.

Maybe he meant involuntarily? ;)
 
Great photos. Where did you find the first and last ones? Any chance these are available in higher resolution? I'd love to know the story behind some of these :)
 
I don't really like Kevin Martin.
The guy shows no effort, and plays with a sort of a "too-good-to-try" attitude.
He really doesn't care
I don't care if he scores 25 a game, I want to see things that don't show on the box score: effort, energy, and hustle.
I'm tired of him.
 
Why does Kenny Natt play Cisco so much?
Francisco Garcia is a turnover-machine, just waiting to turn on. And when it does, you're not surprised.
He needs to start taking better shots and taking what the defense gives him, not forcing the issue.
 
Greene ( C ) -- in as a PF in the 2nd quarter against Murphy, as Natt has apparently been listening to Jerry about the game trending toward 3pt shooting SFs masquerading as PFs...everywhere except Boston, Cleveland, Los Angeles, New Orleans, Houston, Utah, San Antonio, Portland and every other contender not blessed with Dwight Howard inside to clean up all messes. But anyway, that can just go in the Jerry is an idiot file. Meanwhile Donte did not even do the thing he should be able to do against a slowfooted PF, and immediately got burned badly on a Murphy drive. Did come up with one "big man" moment with a nice little help block on Foster, but he and Noc did a terrible job on he final play of the first half where Jarret Jack was able to dribble the entire length of the floor in 5 seconds and go in untouched for a buzzer beating layup. Neither guy rotated or cut off the penetration -- no big man instincts.

Last year Boston played James Posey quite a bit at PF, the Cavs use LeBron at PF sometimes, Odom in LA, New Orleans has David West who might as well be a SF and go small quite often, Artest/Battier in Houston, and Travis Outlaw in Portland all play PF for their teams.
 
I don't really like Kevin Martin.
The guy shows no effort, and plays with a sort of a "too-good-to-try" attitude.
He really doesn't care
I don't care if he scores 25 a game, I want to see things that don't show on the box score: effort, energy, and hustle.
I'm tired of him.

I'm somewhat tired of him. I would like to see what other teams would offer for him. If we could get a great young player I would think about it.
 
Last year Boston played James Posey quite a bit at PF, the Cavs use LeBron at PF sometimes, Odom in LA, New Orleans has David West who might as well be a SF and go small quite often, Artest/Battier in Houston, and Travis Outlaw in Portland all play PF for their teams.


That's largely a list of very big strong SFs playing spot minutes for matchups or injuries -- David West aside who is a PF who shoots all of 25 3s a season.

Nothing has changed -- Jerry remains as confused a basektball man as ever. The rules today are the same they were 15 years ago when Horry filled in next to Hakeem. If you have a superduper doiminant megapost playing interior monster, then you can put a roleplaying jumpshooting big man next to him, so long as that roleplaying jumpshooter defends and preferably rebounds. Its the simple extension, due to the 3pt line, of the same principle which guided AC Green next to Kareem, Ho Grant next to Shaq, PJ Brown next to Mourning, Oakley next to Ewing. Face up roleplayers all.

And so now you have Dwight Howard in Orlando, and the principle perhaps taken another level with Lewis/Hedo -- true big SFs rather than PFs. But its the same idea. Nothing has changed, its just the counter to the big pivots. Otherwise its the same garbage strategy as its always been -- smallballers and lottery teams. And that of course is where Jerry's love affair lies. He even let it slip last night, that it makes the game more aesthetically appealing in his eyes. That's the real reason he blathers on in such ignorance -- he wants it to be that way, and cannot separate want from reality.

Here are the 3pt attempt totals of the starting PFs for all 9 Western teams (the good ones) and the Big Three out East (basically the top 12 teams in the league):

3pt Attempts
LAL - Gasol - 2
NOH - West - 20
SAS - Duncan - 2
DAL - Dirk - 124
PHX - Amare - 7
HOU - Scola - 3
UTH - Milsap - 3 (Boozer has taken 0)
DEN - Martin - 33
POR - Aldridge - 17
BOS - Garnett - 8
CLV - Wallace - 0
ORL - Lewis - 419


Yes, that Lewis move next to Dwight is quite a trend amongst successful teams isn't it? Definitely the way the game is being played now. :rolleyes: At least if you are a crappy team who can't find itself a real PF to play inside.

You cannot listen to Jerry on topics like this -- he will lead you astray.
 
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Kevin almost didn't play in the Utah game because he agrivated his ankle the game before. In all fairness to Kevin, we don't know how much his ankle is bothering him. But I do think he could show a little more excitement and bring a little more energy to the court.
 
I feel so bad for Bobby Jackson. That guy deserves better (a lot better). He shouldn’t even be playing that much time but he’s the only one (or one of the few) who has pride. I hope he gets a ring next year. He deserves it.

I wonder if the other players ever wonder why the fans love Bobby so much – just look at how he plays the game. If they want that kind of support then they should do the same.

I was reading something about Mikki that make me smile. Maybe it will put a smile on other people’s faces.

Said Allen: "I played with Mikki [in Seattle]. I know how Mikki can help us. I know his talent. He can knock down that jumper, he's a great rebounder, he's long, he can block shots. He can help us because he gives us greater size."

source: http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/articles/2009/02/26/moore_signing_a_big_lift/

Oh my…lol
 
I don't really like Kevin Martin.
The guy shows no effort, and plays with a sort of a "too-good-to-try" attitude.
He really doesn't care
I don't care if he scores 25 a game, I want to see things that don't show on the box score: effort, energy, and hustle.
I'm tired of him.

Hogwash.
 
That's largely a list of very big strong SFs playing spot minutes for matchups or injuries -- David West aside who is a PF who shoots all of 25 3s a season.

Nothing has changed -- Jerry remains as confused a basektball man as ever. The rules today are the same they were 15 years ago when Horry filled in next to Hakeem. If you have a superduper doiminant megapost playing interior monster, then you can put a roleplaying jumpshooting big man next to him, so long as that roleplaying jumpshooter defends and preferably rebounds. Its the simple extension, due to the 3pt line, of the same principle which guided AC Green next to Kareem, Ho Grant next to Shaq, PJ Brown next to Mourning, Oakley next to Ewing. Face up roleplayers all.

And so now you have Dwight Howard in Orlando, and the principle perhaps taken another level with Lewis/Hedo -- true big SFs rather than PFs. But its the same idea. Nothing has changed, its just the counter to the big pivots. Otherwise its the same garbage strategy as its always been -- smallballers and lottery teams. And that of course is where Jerry's love affair lies. He even let it slip last night, that it makes the game more aesthetically appealing in his eyes. That's the real reason he blathers on in such ignorance -- he wants it to be that way, and cannot separate want from reality.

Here are the 3pt attempt totals of the starting PFs for all 9 Western teams (the good ones) and the Big Three out East (basically the top 12 teams in the league):

3pt Attempts
LAL - Gasol - 2
NOH - West - 20
SAS - Duncan - 2
DAL - Dirk - 124
PHX - Amare - 7
HOU - Scola - 3
UTH - Milsap - 3 (Boozer has taken 0)
DEN - Martin - 33
POR - Aldridge - 17
BOS - Garnett - 8
CLV - Wallace - 0
ORL - Lewis - 419


Yes, that Lewis move next to Dwight is quite a trend amongst successful teams isn't it? Definitely the way the game is being played now. :rolleyes: At least if you are a crappy team who can't find itself a real PF to play inside.

You cannot listen to Jerry on topics like this -- he will lead you astray.

Greene is still 6'9" + and almost 240 pounds. That's pretty big, he needs to hit the weights but I don't think a move up to PF is out of the question. He could be a lot like Josh Smith where his athletic ability is tremendously valuable at PF. He obviously needs to harness that ability as well as his shooting ability but there is potential there.
 
Care to explain why you disagree?
Dude, are you serious? They say if your shot is off, get to the free throw line. Kevin went to the line 14 times and hit all of his free throws, almost half to the teams total amount. Yes, he did look like he gave up in the mid third qtr, but **** I would have to if my teammates kept missing me on wide open cuts to the basket. SMH.
 
That's largely a list of very big strong SFs playing spot minutes for matchups or injuries -- David West aside who is a PF who shoots all of 25 3s a season.

Nothing has changed -- Jerry remains as confused a basektball man as ever. The rules today are the same they were 15 years ago when Horry filled in next to Hakeem. If you have a superduper doiminant megapost playing interior monster, then you can put a roleplaying jumpshooting big man next to him, so long as that roleplaying jumpshooter defends and preferably rebounds. Its the simple extension, due to the 3pt line, of the same principle which guided AC Green next to Kareem, Ho Grant next to Shaq, PJ Brown next to Mourning, Oakley next to Ewing. Face up roleplayers all.

And so now you have Dwight Howard in Orlando, and the principle perhaps taken another level with Lewis/Hedo -- true big SFs rather than PFs. But its the same idea. Nothing has changed, its just the counter to the big pivots. Otherwise its the same garbage strategy as its always been -- smallballers and lottery teams. And that of course is where Jerry's love affair lies. He even let it slip last night, that it makes the game more aesthetically appealing in his eyes. That's the real reason he blathers on in such ignorance -- he wants it to be that way, and cannot separate want from reality.

Here are the 3pt attempt totals of the starting PFs for all 9 Western teams (the good ones) and the Big Three out East (basically the top 12 teams in the league):

3pt Attempts
LAL - Gasol - 2
NOH - West - 20
SAS - Duncan - 2
DAL - Dirk - 124
PHX - Amare - 7
HOU - Scola - 3
UTH - Milsap - 3 (Boozer has taken 0)
DEN - Martin - 33
POR - Aldridge - 17
BOS - Garnett - 8
CLV - Wallace - 0
ORL - Lewis - 419


Yes, that Lewis move next to Dwight is quite a trend amongst successful teams isn't it? Definitely the way the game is being played now. :rolleyes: At least if you are a crappy team who can't find itself a real PF to play inside.

You cannot listen to Jerry on topics like this -- he will lead you astray.

You should send this whole post to a Kings rep.
 
You should send this whole post to a Kings rep.

To look at it from a slightly different angle, here are the bigs (whether PF or C) in the NBA who hit an average of at least one 3-point shot per game:

1. R. Lewis ORL
2. T. Murphy IND
3. A. Harrington NYK
4. R. Wallace DET
5. M. Bonner SAS
6. A. Bargnani TOR
7. R. Gomes MIN
8. A. Jamison WAS
9. C. Villanueva MIL

6 of the 9 are playing for lottery teams, Detroit's barely above .500, and the other 2 are playing next to Dwight Howard or Tim Duncan. That pretty much sums that up.
 
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