[Grades] Grades v. Nets 03/31/121

Which do you think is the most likely way Reke caused us to lose tonight?

  • Kept Boogie out all night partying and made him tired

    Votes: 3 11.5%
  • Stole IT and MT's lunches as children, thus making them small and defenseless

    Votes: 6 23.1%
  • Forced Jimmer to graduate from college

    Votes: 1 3.8%
  • Worked with Cisco and Outlaw to help "correct" the form on their jumpers

    Votes: 4 15.4%
  • Performed advanced neurological surgery on JT to disconnect brain from hands

    Votes: 2 7.7%
  • Spiked Smart's Kool Aid

    Votes: 1 3.8%
  • Hung a "D" is for Dummies sign on the lockerroom door

    Votes: 6 23.1%
  • Encouraged Chuck to leave professional jockey world to pursue dream of being NBA center

    Votes: 3 11.5%

  • Total voters
    26
  • Poll closed .

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#1

Tyreke did it! I knows it! The details of what he did are a little shaky, but I KNOW he did it, and will think of something.

So, tired Cuz, NO DEFENSE!!! (until the late run led by Reke and Williams, maybe our two best defenders), no bench (other than Williams) = another fugly unnecessary loss. If anything positive could be taken from it, it would be a message that I doubt Smart will be receptive to, that Reke and Williams together represent the possibility at least of causing Havoc (get it?) when paired in the backcourt defensively.

Boxscore

Evans ( A- ) -- went about causing us to lose in the sneakiest of fashions, being one of the leaders in an excellent unselfish first quarter for us (well, excellent offensively at least), as well as the leader of the 4th quarter defensive comeback attempt. Started the game picking off a crosscourt pass for the first of his four steals, but saw a familiar superathlete (Gerald Wallace) come flying in from behind to block another of his layups, as he has been doing all season. Looked very confident and active in the early going, playing a major role in the early passing game, including a ncie drive and dish to Cousins for a dunk. Was almost defiantly taking jumpers, possibly in reponse to Smart's contention that he should just shoot whenever he's open even if he knows its not a good shot for him. More fell early than late. Struggling to hold down the rebounding on the backside of the zone as he was repeatedly matched against Wallace or Humphries and was picking up fouls fighting the bigger Nets forwards. When he returned our backups had lost all momentum for us, and our starters never picked it bacl up. Had a strong move to get to the hoop and score on our final possesion of the half as we finally got a quarter ending shot to go. No idea what happened to us in the third as we came out and suddenly looked like 5 strangers out there. Reke's little corner of strangerdom wasn;t going any better than anybody else's, and its not often you see him visibly agitated, clapping his hands and yelling "come on!" whether to himself or others. After he went out things went from bad to worse, and by the time he got back in in the 4th we were pretty much dead in the water and went down 19 several times. So came back in with urgency and just tried to juice us himself with very active defense and charges out on the break. Spectacular spin on the break and dish to Donte for the dunk and found a fellow runner and defender in Terrence Williams as we mounted the first defensive charge I can recall in a long time and held the Nets to 20pts in the quarter. Reke was playing PG at the time too, and played some excellent defense on Deron. But it was too little too late, and while everybody was trying, not enough were knocking down their shots, and there was a desperate borderline out of control edge to everything leading to TOs and mistakes. We came up short, but at least it wasn't for lack of effort, at least out of the closing crew.

Thompson ( C+ ) -- one of those games where the 10 and 10 numbers sound better than the game actually was. Running the floor hard and mopping up early, but wasn't on the glass and on defense our bigs were flying around like chickens with their heads cut off as guys went around them, snuck in behind them, scored over them, whatever. Got in foul trouble as well. Missing little post moves and getting a lot of balls slapped away. With Cousins dead legged out there and Hayes suffering from a terminal case of shortness JT was kind of the big guy by default in the 4th. Did a little better on the boards, but never effective and struggled to even get shots off, let alone make them.

Cousins ( D+ ) -- well phooey. Wanna see another DeMarcus split stat? Cousins on back to backs: 27.4min 15.2pts (.399FG%) 10.3reb 0.8ast 1.2stl 1.2blk. Cousins with at least 1 day of rest: 31.3min 18.5pts (.454FG%) 11.4reb 1.8ast 1.4stl 1.3blk. Guess which Boogie we had tonight? Never really looked lively or relentless at any point, but was being set up repeatedly in the early going by the little guys and converting them all. Was probably a bit of a mirage as if you scratched the surfacce you could see trouble brewing. I've mentioned before that I think DeMarcus at this time is very reactive to nto feelign 100% physically, and the markers were there. He wasn't on the boards the way he normally is, and the defense was so undiscplined that you had him just abandoning the post and shooting gaps up top trying to pick off passes for breakaway steals. Both Petro and Humphries scoring entirely too easily and he was just sloppy. Had all fo his points early. We tried to go to him in the third, but he was getting blocked and stripped repeately and not responding with his normal all out hustle scrapping for boards and finishes. Took him out, got nothing out of the Chuckwagon, and tried to being him back in to support the Reke & Terrence show in the middle 4th. There was just nothing there though, he was sluggish and picked up his 5th foul, and we actually eneded up swapping out DeMarcus Cousins in favor of Donte Greene to get a little life inside for our comeback attempt.

Thornton ( C ) -- after a quiet start quickly heated up in the latter stages of the first as Evans found him for a three and an alley oop, but the most impressive play was a fullcourt wraparound dish to Cousins along the baseline as Marcus joined the first quarter passing party. But never really regained that rhythm, and his attempts for the rest of his minutes were often forced or out of rhtyhm, and then finally quit coming at all as the passing game dried up. Defense was confused as always, although he wasn't primarily responsible for the Morrow explosion. Did show some good energy on the boards, particularly as the 3rd quarter wore on, and that was really his biggest contribution to this one. Otherwise never really a factor and sat out almost the entire 4th as Reke and the reserves tried to make the comeback.

Thomas ( B- ) -- passing well early, own offense was not effective, but found guys moving down the lane repeatedly. Began to get it in gear himself as the half wore on, but not entirely sure tht was for the better as our passing dried up and there were a few forces. Real problem on the other end as not able to impede Deron on defense as he got physically bumped and passed over (because Reke is bigger than any PG, its easy to forget that Deron is actually one of the bigger more powerful PGs out there). Nice job on one play in the third, when Cousins had the ball and IT screamed and pointed to a wide open Reke that Boogie hadn't seen. Running steal from behind on Humphries coming from his blindside in the mid thrid. Somewhat mysteriously subbed out for Jimmer in the late 3rd, given that he was one of the guys who had helped us make a mini-run at that point. But we were getting beaten like a drum on defense, and there were a couple of times where IT just got totally lost behind screens, so that might have been the deal. Although not sure what the odds are that putting in Jimmer was going to fix that.

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Bench

Greene ( B- ) -- tough take to the hoop in the final minute of the first quarter. Not really playing well on defense or hitting outside shots, but was playing big around the glass. Got the alte minutes with Hayes and Cousins ineffective, and had a few moments running with Reke, inclduign a dunk off a Reke open court spin move and a big steal and dunk with a minute left to make it 9 again. Lot of shots in his limited minutes, and did not think the defense was as good as normal, although was helping Reke and TWill disrupt in the 4th. Might be half a grade high here.

Hayes ( F ) -- well, kind of a botttoming out here that I was going to call some sort of D, but how do you do that on a 13min 0pts 0reb 2TO and 0-3 shooting night? In that case what's an F?. Questionable attempts to use Chuck as an elbow high post passer, where the bailout was him taking it to the hoop for those ridiculous stubby gallops. Lack of offense really hurt in the early 4th as the Nets were just completely ignoring hi to double Cousins. Could not stay with Wallace obviously when matched on him. Just generally ineffective.

Fredette ( D+ ) -- quick burst of offense at the end of the first with a drive and runner and a long three. But that would have to serve as the highlight in this one for Jimmer for a long time as things went badly sideways for him and us. Not able to get it over Wallace to close the first quarter. Then missed 3 in a row in the early 2nd as the offense stalled, and a number of them were good open looks set up by teammates. Had no chance athletically against Gerald Green in the late 3rd, but was getting torched by Morrow as well, and may have been involved int he backbreaking play when he fouled Morrow in transition on a three point shot for a 4pt play to put us down 17 all of a sudden. Finally hit another three in the early 4th on a nice unselfish pass by Williams, but this was two little offensive hits with a big Oreo filling of rotten cream.

Garcia ( C- ) -- didn't accomplish anything in his first half stint. Was in there with the Reke/Williams bench squad that made a run at things, but just could. Not. Hit. A damn shot. Set up repeatedly for open shots in crunchtime, missed them anyway. Also was responsible for some of Morrow's outburst as Cisco wasn't stopping anybody tonight either.

Williams ( B ) -- not effective in his first half minutes -- tried to drive and dish to set up several Kings in the corner, but we got no points out of it. Back in and nice pass to a cutting IT. Too, let's say "confident" just dribbling down and taking jumpers off his dribble. Big play on a tough +1 finish with 8 seconds to go in the third, but missed the +1 so lead stayed at 15 heading into the 4th. Nice unselfish pass to Jimmer in the early 4th to send Jimmermania to the bench with some tatters of respectability. Big contibution came when he reamed with Reke to really give us an athletic defensive push in the late 4th. But despite the hustle and defense, was unable to hit the tough threes in the late 4th we needed to complete the comeback.

Outlaw ( F ) -- open court pass from Thontotn just went right through Outlaw's hands. Inhumanly bad jumpshooter anymore. Might as well play me. Not reacting on rebounds. Missed some ridiculous 1 on 1 dribbling take against Gerald Wallace that had the Nets bench yelling "he's going left!" to Gerald long before Outlaw made his move and....went left for a contested fading 20footer. Boxscore says he had 2 blocks. I don't remember them. IF you can prove to me they existed I might give him a D-.
 
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#5
Man, the more I watch this Williams kid the more I think he could be the type of player you pair with Tyreke in the backcourt. Both can handle, both are good defenders, both can defend 3 positions, both can create for themselves and others. If both could get a respectable shot from behind the arc, that backcourt would be beastly.

Add a nice, full sized non ball dominant, 3 pt shooter and good defender at the 3 (Batum) and another 6'10 rebounder/shotblocker/defender at the PF/C to pair with Cousins and JT and we would be pretty good.

From the limited time Williams has been with us, he has shown that he could be that guy you want next to Tyreke. If only our small ball obsessed coach and allergic to defence front office could buy into this, we could be on the way.

Unfortunately what I see unfolding will be completely different come draft and trade time. More pain coming up.
 
#6
Wtf is the point of playing outlaw dude is seriously trash why not give tyler his minutes we nvr rebound good when chuck da midget hays plays center...smart isn't really smart more like coach no brains
 
#7
Man, the more I watch this Williams kid the more I think he could be the type of player you pair with Tyreke in the backcourt. Both can handle, both are good defenders, both can defend 3 positions, both can create for themselves and others. If both could get a respectable shot from behind the arc, that backcourt would be beastly.

Add a nice, full sized non ball dominant, 3 pt shooter and good defender at the 3 (Batum) and another 6'10 rebounder/shotblocker/defender at the PF/C to pair with Cousins and JT and we would be pretty good.

From the limited time Williams has been with us, he has shown that he could be that guy you want next to Tyreke. If only our small ball obsessed coach and allergic to defence front office could buy into this, we could be on the way.

Unfortunately what I see unfolding will be completely different come draft and trade time. More pain coming up.
I agree that a Reke/TWill back court could be beastly defensively. We need a good 3pt shooting SF to go along with them. Throw in a shot blocking PF/C and we could have a competitive defensive team with a nicely balanced offense. Should be simple. But I see the very real possibility that we trade Reke for scraps and continue to use this undersized and defenseless guard paring for the next three years because they put up a bunch of points and it is pretty.
 
#8
Wtf is the point of playing outlaw dude is seriously trash why not give tyler his minutes we nvr rebound good when chuck da midget hays plays center...smart isn't really smart more like coach no brains
We played him to show the NJ that they were right to amnesty him and how dumb we were to pick him up ;)
 
#9
I agree that a Reke/TWill back court could be beastly defensively. We need a good 3pt shooting SF to go along with them. Throw in a shot blocking PF/C and we could have a competitive defensive team with a nicely balanced offense. Should be simple. But I see the very real possibility that we trade Reke for scraps and continue to use this undersized and defenseless guard paring for the next three years because they put up a bunch of points and it is pretty.
I am am scared that the coach and the FO whose love for the non-defensive, small balling team is sickening, would do something as retarded as retarded as trading away Reke for scraps and go forward with the MT/IT backcourt.

This team is made of mismatched pieces and it would not take too much tweaking to get the right balance but all the indicators from the FO and the coach suggest we are heading in the different direction to the one we should be heading in. Its really depressing.
 
#10
I agree that a Reke/TWill back court could be beastly defensively. We need a good 3pt shooting SF to go along with them. Throw in a shot blocking PF/C and we could have a competitive defensive team with a nicely balanced offense. Should be simple. But I see the very real possibility that we trade Reke for scraps and continue to use this undersized and defenseless guard paring for the next three years because they put up a bunch of points and it is pretty.
I could see that happening. Look at how we handled the Hickson dilemma. Buy high, sell low.
 

Spike

Subsidiary Intermediary
Staff member
#11
This team is not built for smallball. It's built to be big at the starting 5, then instant offense off the bench. Unfortunately, coach has to start all scorers, leaving the team unbalanced during crucial times in the game.
 
#12
this team is built to win you a game of NBA 2k12, it doesn't help that Smart start our 4 best scorers, leaving the bench with no punch and a second quarter to show for it. Theres no way these players don't notice this big problem, surely one of them should step up and say they want to come off the bench to try and bring some balance to this unbalanced lineup. As a head coach Smart should see this and adress it. Petrie should also see this and bring some defensive players in the off season, and unload some of our players for the right pieces.

IMO the only untradable piece we have is Cousins, everyone else should be expendable if it brings the right pieces.
 
#13
We needed better 3 point shooting to win this one. Absolutely needed Garcia and Williams to hit their open 3s, though I don't know how good of a 3 point shooter Williams is so I don't blame him as much for missing them. To be honest I felt the ball movement this game was a lot better than against the Jazz, and I think it was the bench that really caused us to lose it this time. Both IT and Tyreke were setting guys up for easy baskets, and Williams helped out too.

I think we need to explore how to play with Hayes more effectively on the offensive end. IF you haven't noticed by now, everytime we give him the ball at the high post and we can't get a cutter open going to the basket, he ends up with nobody to pass it to and takes it to the rim off the dribble. NOT a good result, and happens a good 3-4 times a game.

T-will is a keeper. Very useful player to have, and one who actually plays D.
 
#14
I was in and out for the game, but i did catch the most of the second half. In the 4th, when Smart began playing Reke/Williams in the backcourt, it was a pretty scary defensive backcourt. We had a lot of steals/stops that kept us in the game.

That said, Cousins wasn't in there with them in that 4th. So while they did good, we can't conclude them to be our starting backcourt until we have our best player, Cousins, operating among them.

Again, we have yet to see a starting backcourt of IT/Reke along with Cousins. So i'd like to see us give that a shot before we resort to Reke and Williams.
 
#15
I was in and out for the game, but i did catch the most of the second half. In the 4th, when Smart began playing Reke/Williams in the backcourt, it was a pretty scary defensive backcourt. We had a lot of steals/stops that kept us in the game.

That said, Cousins wasn't in there with them in that 4th. So while they did good, we can't conclude them to be our starting backcourt until we have our best player, Cousins, operating among them.

Again, we have yet to see a starting backcourt of IT/Reke along with Cousins. So i'd like to see us give that a shot before we resort to Reke and Williams.
My personal opinion is that you don't always need to start your best whatever lineup. It's all about balance, and you can always sub in 1 or 2 players to create your best defensive or shooting lineup as opposed to subbing 4 or 5 guys out. We could start IT with Tyreke, and then handle the rotations in such a way that at some point you have Tyreke with Twill, Twill with Thornton etc, just to balance out the defense and offense. We don't have to start Tyreke, Williams, Garcia/Donte, JT/Hayes/Cousins and then have 0 defense once we bring the bench in.
 
#16
The positive thing about this game is that we helped Portland secure that New Jersey pick. Giving it more chance to bounce out of the top 3 pick. LOL

Hopefully, Portland gives us Batum for this favor.

And lastly, Smart is damn deceptive about us really tanking for Anthony Davis. Personally, I think these loses are pretty intentional. Deep in my heart I believe Smart can really coach a this team other than small ball.

It must be breaking Smart's heart seeing Reke at SF and riding the IT4ROY campaign. This because early this Season, Smart made a beast out of Reke at PG but just can't get Salmons or anyone working at SF.

I'd like to dream that come draft day, Portland gets #4 pick, and Stern hands us the #1 pick. We select Anthony Davis, Drummond goes 2nd, Robinson 3rd, and Portland is torn between 2 SF (Barnes and MKG). So Portland trades Batum to us for MT. And so the Kings dynasty began.

PG - Reke
SG - T-Will
SF - Batum
PF - One-brow
C - Boogie

BTW, I just realized that front court line-up could might as well end up as the most scary combination of nicknames. The Boogie man, The One-brow, and the Bat-"um". LOL
 
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#17
The positive thing about this game is that we helped Portland secure that New Jersey pick. Giving it more chance to bounce out of the top 3 pick. LOL

Hopefully, Portland gives us Batum for this favor.

And lastly, Smart is damn deceptive about us really tanking for Anthony Davis. Personally, I think these loses are pretty intentional. Deep in my heart I believe Smart can really coach a this team other than small ball.

It must be breaking Smart's heart seeing Reke at SF and riding the IT4ROY campaign. This because early this Season, Smart made a beast out of Reke at PG but just can't get Salmons or anyone working at SF.

I'd like to dream that come draft day, Portland gets #4 pick, and Stern hands us the #1 pick. We select Anthony Davis, Drummond goes 2nd, Robinson 3rd, and Portland is torn between 2 SF (Barnes and MKG). So Portland trades Batum to us for MT. And so the Kings dynasty began.

PG - Reke
SG - T-Will
SF - Batum
PF - One-brow
C - Boogie

BTW, I just realized that front court line-up could might as well end up as the most scary combination of nicknames. The Boogie man, The One-brow, and the Bat-"um". LOL
Portland can't really trade us Batum since he is a restricted free agent this summer (unless its a sign and trade).

What you have up there would be my ideal line up going forward and we can have IT come off the bench as a spark plug scorer in a similar mould as Bobby Jackson. There is no reason why he cannot play big minutes off the bench but the line up you have suggested (and the one I suggested in the personnel board) would be a very good line up going forward.

2 guards who are both great ball handlers and both can be exceptional defenders, both can also pass. Batum a potential shut down defender at the 3 who can shoot the lights out and the 2 big man rebounding their backsides off and Davis providing the much needed interior D and shot blocking.

Re-sign JT and you have a strong 3 big man rotation. The great thing about Batum - Williams - Reke line up is that they are all very good defenders and you can mix and match defensively which every way you like. All 3 are capable of defending all 3 perimeter positions. Its a highly flexible line up both offensively and defensively and if Reke and T-Will can get a respectable 3pt shot, it becomes extremely difficult to defend against as well.

We need a bit of luck and some smart trading/signings.
 
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#18
The positive thing about this game is that we helped Portland secure that New Jersey pick. Giving it more chance to bounce out of the top 3 pick. LOL

Hopefully, Portland gives us Batum for this favor.

And lastly, Smart is damn deceptive about us really tanking for Anthony Davis. Personally, I think these loses are pretty intentional. Deep in my heart I believe Smart can really coach a this team other than small ball.

It must be breaking Smart's heart seeing Reke at SF and riding the IT4ROY campaign. This because early this Season, Smart made a beast out of Reke at PG but just can't get Salmons or anyone working at SF.

I'd like to dream that come draft day, Portland gets #4 pick, and Stern hands us the #1 pick. We select Anthony Davis, Drummond goes 2nd, Robinson 3rd, and Portland is torn between 2 SF (Barnes and MKG). So Portland trades Batum to us for MT. And so the Kings dynasty began.

PG - Reke
SG - T-Will
SF - Batum
PF - One-brow
C - Boogie

BTW, I just realized that front court line-up could might as well end up as the most scary combination of nicknames. The Boogie man, The One-brow, and the Bat-"um". LOL
Lol let's not get ahead of ourselves. But it is nice to fantasize.
 
#19
PG-Tyreke
SG-T-Will
SF-Donte
PF-JT
C-Cousins

We would be much better defensively with this lineup, but I have a suspicion that scoring might be a problem with this crew. Maybe this lineup would work better..

PG- IT
SG- Tyreke
SF- Donte/T-Will?
PF- JT
C- Cousins

With either scenario, I think Thornton coming off the bench would be the right thing to do. He thinks about scoring too much, and if that's what he wants to do he can probably do it even more effectively coming off the bench and tear apart the other team's second unit. He can still play significant minutes, but since we still suck this season, I would like to see more of what T-Will can do, and give some minutes to Honeycutt if possible.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#20
PG-Tyreke
SG-T-Will
SF-Donte
PF-JT
C-Cousins

We would be much better defensively with this lineup, but I have a suspicion that scoring might be a problem with this crew. Maybe this lineup would work better..

PG- IT
SG- Tyreke
SF- Donte/T-Will?
PF- JT
C- Cousins

With either scenario, I think Thornton coming off the bench would be the right thing to do. He thinks about scoring too much, and if that's what he wants to do he can probably do it even more effectively coming off the bench and tear apart the other team's second unit. He can still play significant minutes, but since we still suck this season, I would like to see more of what T-Will can do, and give some minutes to Honeycutt if possible.
I know this isn't going to happen, at least this season, but I like your first lineup. And, I don't think scoring would be a problem for that lineup. Tyreke can score, as can Williams. Greene can do what Greene has been doing this season. Just takinig whats there. Thompson will get his 10 to 14 pts, and Cuz will get whatever he feels like getting on any given night. The big key, is that defensively, we matchup with just about anyone, and in many cases, we have a size advantage.

And to make everyone happy, call Williams the PG and Tyreke the SG. Or call the both point SG's. Call them what ever you want. The great part, is that then you have IT and Thornton coming off the bench. Now if the basketball gods will just smile on us, and give us Anthony Davis, we can add JT to the bench group, and have a nice 8 man rotation. Forget all that! It sounds too logical.
 
#21
I know this isn't going to happen, at least this season, but I like your first lineup. And, I don't think scoring would be a problem for that lineup. Tyreke can score, as can Williams. Greene can do what Greene has been doing this season. Just takinig whats there. Thompson will get his 10 to 14 pts, and Cuz will get whatever he feels like getting on any given night. The big key, is that defensively, we matchup with just about anyone, and in many cases, we have a size advantage.

And to make everyone happy, call Williams the PG and Tyreke the SG. Or call the both point SG's. Call them what ever you want. The great part, is that then you have IT and Thornton coming off the bench. Now if the basketball gods will just smile on us, and give us Anthony Davis, we can add JT to the bench group, and have a nice 8 man rotation. Forget all that! It sounds too logical.
I respectfully disagree with the thought that those lineups would be able to score. The first one would really struggle.

No outside shooting makes Tyreke and DMC's job a lot harder. Most teams already pack the paint against us when IT and MT are starting .. now they'd have no reason to defend anyone at the 3pt line at all.

My best solution here would be:

Evans - Thornton - Williams - Hayes - Cousins

Still undersized, but at least they are undersized players who can defend. The plan would be to play IT and Jason Thompson the same if not more than Hayes and Williams even though those guys start. Jason Thompson would also fill the MASSIVE rebounding problem the bench unit with Donte and Hayes face every night.

Those guys would start, and the only bench players I'm using are IT, Donte, Salmons, and Thompson.

We don't need to play 12 guys every night. No one else does. And I still firmly believe that the Chuck Hayes signing is and will be completely useless going forward unless he's starting and defending the other teams best post player. Offensive oriented bigs are better bench players because the odds of them having to shut down a major post player from the other teams bench are slim to none. How many teams have offensive low post big men coming into the game off their bench? not many, because those kind of players start. We're currently playing our stubby post defending big to shut down the likes of Jordan Williams, Enes Kanter .... and all the other backup big men around the league. Whats the point of that?

With all of this being said ... I still don't know how Smart benches anyone, because until the Twill signing NO ONE on the bench was playing worthy of taking one of our starters out of the starting lineup.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#22
I respectfully disagree with the thought that those lineups would be able to score. The first one would really struggle.

No outside shooting makes Tyreke and DMC's job a lot harder. Most teams already pack the paint against us when IT and MT are starting .. now they'd have no reason to defend anyone at the 3pt line at all.

My best solution here would be:

Evans - Thornton - Williams - Hayes - Cousins

Still undersized, but at least they are undersized players who can defend. The plan would be to play IT and Jason Thompson the same if not more than Hayes and Williams even though those guys start. Jason Thompson would also fill the MASSIVE rebounding problem the bench unit with Donte and Hayes face every night.

Those guys would start, and the only bench players I'm using are IT, Donte, Salmons, and Thompson.

We don't need to play 12 guys every night. No one else does. And I still firmly believe that the Chuck Hayes signing is and will be completely useless going forward unless he's starting and defending the other teams best post player. Offensive oriented bigs are better bench players because the odds of them having to shut down a major post player from the other teams bench are slim to none. How many teams have offensive low post big men coming into the game off their bench? not many, because those kind of players start. We're currently playing our stubby post defending big to shut down the likes of Jordan Williams, Enes Kanter .... and all the other backup big men around the league. Whats the point of that?

With all of this being said ... I still don't know how Smart benches anyone, because until the Twill signing NO ONE on the bench was playing worthy of taking one of our starters out of the starting lineup.
I understand where your coming from, but frankly, I'm tired of undersized lineups. I would love to say that Williams can score from the outside, but up to now, I have nothing to back that up except my opinion on his potential. The only NBA measuring stick is his one year at New Jersey where he played around 78 games, and shot around 31 to 32 % from the three. Not great, but not horrible. At Houston in 12 games this year, he shot over 40%, but with us so far, he's shooting in the mid 20% range. So in both instances, its too small a sampling to use as measuring stick. What I do know, is that his overall shooting percentage is around 50%.

He's young, and very talented, so I can see him improving in that area. Other than that one year at New Jersey, he really hasn't played in very many games. So he's almost like a second year player in games played. I just think what we might lose offensively, we'll make up in defense, and in assists. So we'll just have to agree to disagree. I'd like to try it and see how it works, instead of just talking about it. I literally hate the idea of Hayes on the floor with Cousins. Neither of them can guard the quick PF's, and Hayes is a poor rebounder by comparison to JT. Cousins needs an athletic PF next to him, and JT is the closest we have to that. I'm sick and tired of watching Hayes, Greene, Outlaw and whomever else is out there at the time, just get killed on the boards.

Hopefully after the next draft and freeagent signing period, both our frontline and SF position will have improved personnel wise. Along with Tyreke's jumpshot. Then your worries will have been abated.
 
#23
Just remember when the minority said Evans was not a PG and you all would fight tooth and nail on the forums with us few that said he's not, saying he was PG and pointing to the lineup and saying the Kings brass know more than I do yadda yadda?

Now that he's not anymore I know what you all went through. I COULD go down the same road you all did but meh...

Will say one thing though.. Evans is not a PG.
 
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#24
Any lineup with Chuck in it is trouble. I'm tired of watching leads disapear whenever he enters the game. Never really understood getting him in the first place. I'm just not a fan of 5'4" centers.
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#26
I know this isn't going to happen, at least this season, but I like your first lineup. And, I don't think scoring would be a problem for that lineup. Tyreke can score, as can Williams. Greene can do what Greene has been doing this season. Just takinig whats there. Thompson will get his 10 to 14 pts, and Cuz will get whatever he feels like getting on any given night. The big key, is that defensively, we matchup with just about anyone, and in many cases, we have a size advantage.

And to make everyone happy, call Williams the PG and Tyreke the SG. Or call the both point SG's. Call them what ever you want. The great part, is that then you have IT and Thornton coming off the bench. Now if the basketball gods will just smile on us, and give us Anthony Davis, we can add JT to the bench group, and have a nice 8 man rotation. Forget all that! It sounds too logical.
I don't think it works. No matter how you cut it or what names you want to ascribe, it's not enough ballhandling or outside shooting. I'll tell you what, why don't we just get a good all around 3, a big 2 that can shoot outside, a 4 who is a step better defensively than Thompson, add Cousins and IT for topping, and now you have a team. Otherwise, you're still fitting round pegs into square holes.
 
#27
I think our Gary record is scratched. It keeps saying the same thing over and over and over.
;)

Has been now for almost three years. I think a lot of people here have scratched records.

Have you ever seen the 107.9 "the end" playlist? You can see it hour by hour. It's crazy how often they play the same music. Sometimes they will play the same song they did 45 minutes before. Now that would get annoying. Glad I don't like top 40.
 
#28
I understand where your coming from, but frankly, I'm tired of undersized lineups. I would love to say that Williams can score from the outside, but up to now, I have nothing to back that up except my opinion on his potential. The only NBA measuring stick is his one year at New Jersey where he played around 78 games, and shot around 31 to 32 % from the three. Not great, but not horrible. At Houston in 12 games this year, he shot over 40%, but with us so far, he's shooting in the mid 20% range. So in both instances, its too small a sampling to use as measuring stick. What I do know, is that his overall shooting percentage is around 50%.
You really can't do that (Evans at PG and Williams at SG). It might be a big lineup (when you put Greene at SF) but it's not a very good lineup. You can't just put big guys at all the positions and expect them to succeed if they aren't very good. For one, we are talking about a guy we picked up off the streets and another that wasn't even playing, and has not been successful so far in his NBA career. Not to mention this lineup has almost no offensive capability beyond 18ft and would be easy to defend.

We are so mismatched right now in terms of who our best players are, that we need to make some off season moves or we will continue to bring out the small ball. We need to have a good draft, and not waste our 2nd rounder. We should actually think about purchasing a late 1st rounder from a team that does not need it (teams buy late first rounders every year it seems) and grab a guy like Fab Melo to bolster our defense. Maybe look at getting Teague as well. He has the potential to be a great defender, and he's a full sized PG. I am not a big fan of his brother but his brother is developing nicely.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#29
I don't think it works. No matter how you cut it or what names you want to ascribe, it's not enough ballhandling or outside shooting. I'll tell you what, why don't we just get a good all around 3, a big 2 that can shoot outside, a 4 who is a step better defensively than Thompson, add Cousins and IT for topping, and now you have a team. Otherwise, you're still fitting round pegs into square holes.
I won't argue the outside shooting, but Tyreke is a terrific ballhandler, and Williams is a very good ballhandler. I'll give you Greene, but his has improved over his stay here. I think Williams could develop into the big 2 that can shoot. No guarntee's, as I don't have a crystal ball. But his shooting has never been terrible. But I'm on board for a top SF being added.

We all know what the team needs. We've discussed it adnausem. If I have carte blanche, I can make up a line up that everyone would love. But I'm trying to deal with what we now have on the roster. Williams is a good passer with good court vision. So far I've been impressed with his play. So all I'm saying, is that for the few games we have left, lets try something different, that doesn't require a bunch of midgets running round the floor.
 
#30
I don't think it works. No matter how you cut it or what names you want to ascribe, it's not enough ballhandling or outside shooting. I'll tell you what, why don't we just get a good all around 3, a big 2 that can shoot outside, a 4 who is a step better defensively than Thompson, add Cousins and IT for topping, and now you have a team. Otherwise, you're still fitting round pegs into square holes.
Were you the one who had the really really messed up, weird definition of "ballhandling"?