[Grades] Grades v. Mavs 02/13/2013

Most realistic coaching option next year if the team stays?

  • Jeff Van Gundy

    Votes: 4 9.3%
  • Stan Van Gundy

    Votes: 9 20.9%
  • John Calipari

    Votes: 2 4.7%
  • Nate McMillan

    Votes: 20 46.5%
  • Phil Jackson

    Votes: 1 2.3%
  • Jerry Sloan

    Votes: 1 2.3%
  • Mike Brown

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Keith Smart

    Votes: 2 4.7%
  • Larry Brown

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • a top assistant

    Votes: 4 9.3%

  • Total voters
    43
  • Poll closed .
L

LWP777

Guest
#31
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. If your serious with those comments, then there's nothing I can say that would enlighten you. But I do question why your on the opposite side of the popular view almost every time. Everyone will disagree with the majority from time to time, but in your case, its the norm, and not the exception. Your credibility becomes suspect, when you disagree with the obvious. Perhaps you only pipe in when you disagree! I don't know. But remember, its not the truth that matters, it perception that matters. Just ask Cousins!
Hi Baja! I agree with the majority that Smart is a horrible coach. You'll never see me defending him. I just think that because he's so bad folks around here get suckered into thinking that we are a good team with a lot of talent. I just don't see it that way. Our best and most talented player is an inconsistent head case and our second best player (Evans) hasn't developed the way we would have hoped and will probably be nothing more than a nice player in this league. The rest of our roster is filled with scrubs and bench players on a good team.

Don't forget....we START Salmons, JT and IT. Those guys are not starters on good teams.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#32
Got in to watch this and league pass won't load the game, but loads every single other game.

was it really that bad? :D

Actually no to a certain degree, despite my own complaining. I mean we got blown out bad enough for girls, but it wasn't one of our don't even show up efforts. In fact good ones, including a few spectacular plays, from Cousins, Reke, JT and to a certain wild degree, Johnson. Until the true depth of our terrible defense was revealed, it even looked like we were making a big move in the late 3rd to get right back into things. But defense and coaching, coahcing and defense. And then most of the peopel not names Reke/Cuz/JT were stinky. In other words, pretty common set of circumstances for us. :p

Not one of the ones where we jsut laid down though.
 
#33
I seriously doubt they got blown out by 23 due to coaching. People around here need to wake up. This team is simply not very good. Would they be better and at least more watchable with a competent coach? Yes, but they would still be a losing team and wouldn't come close to making the playoffs.
While I don't agree with Brick all the time, this one he is right on. This was death by a thousand cuts, and many of those can be laid straight at coach Smart's feet. Evans and Cousins are starters on any team in the league. Jason Thompson is better than 50% of the big men in the league and would be a starter on any team not featuring a Blake Griffin or Pau Gasol type player. The SF position is a mess with no easy fix. It really depends on whether we get role-play Salmons or Chucky Salmons on any given night. Evans has suddenly developed an outside shot. After Harden and Eric Gordon, he is the third-best young SG in the league and may be better than Gordon. Our point guard play is lackluster in general. I was a very big fan of IT when he first came to the team, but the growing selfishness has made me wary. We don't need that type of PG next to Tyreke.

There is a lot of talent here. Very little of it fits next to each other on the same team. I think that with a stronger coach and organization, guys like Fredette and Robinson get plugged in as role-players. Let them build their games over time. Instead, Fredette gets touted as PG of the future, when the team doesn't really need one next to Evans, and Robinson gets a green light to jack up crap shots instead of taking the Kenneth Faried hustle-player path to relevance.

But we don't have an offensive system that plays to our player's strengths. We have not gone out and surrounded Tyreke with shooters in the backcourt. We have not found defensive minded role-players to put next to Cousins in the front-court. We have 5 people on the court all the time who want the ball on offense and bide their time on defense until we get the ball back out of bounds after a made shot.

TLDR; the talent is there, the development and rigid structure to make the talent work is not.
 

Spike

Subsidiary Intermediary
Staff member
#34
Don't forget....we START Salmons, JT and IT. Those guys are not starters on good teams.
I agree with you on IT and the Fish. JT, however, I think would start on a few. I feel like we've had that discussion before (not you and I, per se, just on these boards.) Take a look at it this way:

Fredette
Evans
Robinson
Thompson
Cousins

That should be a decent, if not good, starting 5, assuming that they had received proper coaching and development. If you threw these 5 on some other team with good coaching (using the Spurs/Leonard example), they would likely be a lot stronger than what they are here. Management has truly stagnated their growth. Thompson, the oldest of the bunch coming in, is probably about where he should be, which is still a valuable role player/spot starter, and could definitely start.
 
#36
That is all we are asking for right now - a team that is watchable every game and competitive. While we have some great games mixed in, many nights this team is just awful. A good chunck of that is coaching.
.... and a good chunk is not. Plain old basketball instincts gained by playing lots of basketball at any level is enough to arm any player in the NBA to do abetter job than these guys do on any night, no matter how the coach plays them. I do think the issue of how good any of our guys are gets muddied up by the way Smart uses them. It's possible our players are pretty awful. On the other hand their could be a gem among them. I hope I live long enough to find out.
 

hrdboild

Moloch in whom I dream Angels!
Staff member
#37
Don't know about the rest of you, but this was a hard game to watch, and unfortunately, because duty called, I had to watch. There was a point where I wanted to pull out my rifle and shoot JJ in the leg just to get him off the floor. He did make one nice pass under the basket to JT, but other than that, he thought he was Michael Jordan. I have no idea what Smart was thinking, or if he even was thinking, but that lineup he put on the floor was terrible. Did he give the night off to T. Robb and Hayes so they could catch an early plane? Or did the two of them, along with Brooks threaten him with bodily harm for some reason. Or perhaps, he just puts all the names up on the wall, blindfolds himself, and then throws darts to see who will play. This was painful to watch!
I was actually starting to like James Johnson -- he was fitting in and finding a role and actually contributing offensively as well -- but then he gets inexplicably benched and comes back with a game like this. On the one hand I can see why he's upset. He probably didn't get any explanation for why his minutes disappeared and he probably felt like he needed to make an impression with what precious little playing time he can get, but this was not the way to go about it. Then again, who knows maybe coach Smart liked him "taking initiative" and now he's back in the rotation. I'm through trying to figure him out. I'm going to go with your dart theory here as the only thing that makes sense.
 
#38
Last nights game makes me wonder if Smart is under some type of instruction to run the team the way he does.

There's no way a head coach at the highest level could be that dumb. He never would have made it to this point with decision making like that.
 
#39
I really do believe he thinks this "matchup" philosophy works and it's just "bad luck" we end up losing.

most coaches are stubborn, my way or the highway.

i dont believe for a minute he's trying to lose.
 
#40
As much as I hate the Maloofs and Smart's rotations, this is truly the most poorly constructed roster in the NBA. It's like Petrie added the PPG of players he was signing and figured that would be enough to be better than other teams.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#43
Stats: 5min 0pts (0-0, 0-0, 0-0) 2reb 0ast 0stl 0blk 0TO
Hayes ( INC ) -- placeholder... --Capt.

I don't actually know who this is. Was just sent it by a female member of the board. So putting him up and calling him "Guy".

Stats: 6min 0pts (0-4, 0-2, 0-0) 3reb 0ast 0stl 0blk 0TO
Outlaw ( INC ) -- placeholder... --Capt.

Stats: 5min 0pts (0-3, 0-0, 0-0) 2reb 0ast 0stl 0blk 0TO
Honeycutt ( INC ) -- placeholder... --Brick
His name is Michael Weatherly. He's one of the stars of NCIS.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#44
Hi Baja! I agree with the majority that Smart is a horrible coach. You'll never see me defending him. I just think that because he's so bad folks around here get suckered into thinking that we are a good team with a lot of talent. I just don't see it that way. Our best and most talented player is an inconsistent head case and our second best player (Evans) hasn't developed the way we would have hoped and will probably be nothing more than a nice player in this league. The rest of our roster is filled with scrubs and bench players on a good team.

Don't forget....we START Salmons, JT and IT. Those guys are not starters on good teams.
Actually Salmons has started on good teams. Whether he would start now, at his current age is a different question. I think there are several teams JT could start for. There are teams the need a solid guy like JT in the lineup that doesn't need plays run for him, and he still gives you a consistent result night after night. The one thing good coaches love, is a player with no surprises, unless its a good surprise. In other words, consistentcy. On IT, I agree, and I've said as much.

This team needs a solid PG, thats a playmaker. Where you and I disagree, is this. If you have a good coach, along with a good PG on the team, players like Cousins and Tyreke will be used in a way that plays to their strengths. This team has no identity!! Just what style do they play. Run and gun? The triangle? Some combination of both? What kind of defense do they play? One on one? Zone? Or whatever grabs them at the time. There are players on this team that are good passers, but yet, we struggle to get assists. Why? There are players on this team that have been good shooters in the past, and yet our shooting percentages, except for a rare few, are terrible. Why?

Poor shot selection is one of the main causes. But why? Why do we have players that are shooting a low percentage, going one on one, and then throwing up well defended shots? Youth isn't the answer. Lack of talent isn't the answer. Lack of coaching is the answer. You look at teams that have proven coaches, and you see teams that look like well oiled machines when they play us. They move the ball. They don't panic, their patient, and they end up getting high percentage shots. They have consistent lineups and rotations, and everyone knows whether, and when their going to play. Everyone knows their role.

Make no mistake. I'm not implying that if the Kings were coached by Phil Jackson, they'd be competing for the championship. But I'am saying that the team would certainly have more wins, and just maybe the playoffs would be a possibility. A good coach takes the talent he has, and he finds a system that will work with that particular talent. A bad coach comes in with a system, and tries to force the talent into that system regardless of whether it fits or not. Phil Jackson didn't try and make the Lakers a run and gun team, because he knew that didn't fit Shaq's abilities. When Pat Riley coached the Lakers, he had showtime with Magic and company. But the talent he had could play that way. But when he went to the Knicks, he completely changed the style of play to conform to the talent he had there.

History means something! And when you ignore it, and try to be inventive or creative, you damm well better have something that works, and works quickly, or it will be forgotten quickly along with the creator. I'll be honest with you. I've been watching professional basketball since the mid to late 50's. I've seen a lot of coaches come and go along with a lot of players. But I have no idea what Smart is doing. Even when he gets it right on occasion, he'll find a way to screw it up with a stupid rotation. To make matters worse, he'll stick to it till the bitter end, perhaps hoping for a late miracle. I've said that we have talent, but that the talent we have, doesn't really fit together well. As a result, it tends to be a dysfunctional team. But Smart does his very best to make it more dysfunctional than it needs to be. I won't even address the defensive side of the ball, because I've been too long winded as it is. All I'll say is, What Defense? There was an instance last night when Fredette, one of our top defenders, was left defending two players, of which one had the ball. Are you kidding me? Jimmer has trouble guarding one player, much less two.

Anyway, I'm hopefull next season we'll have new owners, and a house cleaning. There are about 5 players I wouldn't mind seeing in another uniform. They simply don't fit on this team. But mostly, I want to be reading about how well Smart is doing as an assistent in the D-League. Hey, maybe Mussclehead will hire him.
 
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#46
I seriously doubt they got blown out by 23 due to coaching. People around here need to wake up. This team is simply not very good. Would they be better and at least more watchable with a competent coach? Yes, but they would still be a losing team and wouldn't come close to making the playoffs.
nowhere in my comment that you quoted did i say they lost by 23 because of coaching. i said they game wasn't good, we saw the craziest 1st quarter rotation weve seen all year, and coach Smart was on Twitter during the game and it was hilarious
 
#47
Actually Salmons has started on good teams. Whether he would start now, at his current age is a different question. I think there are several teams JT could start for. There are teams the need a solid guy like JT in the lineup that doesn't need plays run for him, and he still gives you a consistent result night after night. The one thing good coaches love, is a player with no surprises, unless its a good surprise. In other words, consistentcy. On IT, I agree, and I've said as much.

This team needs a solid PG, thats a playmaker. Where you and I disagree, is this. If you have a good coach, along with a good PG on the team, players like Cousins and Tyreke will be used in a way that plays to their strengths. This team has no identity!! Just what style do they play. Run and gun? The triangle? Some combination of both? What kind of defense do they play? One on one? Zone? Or whatever grabs them at the time. There are players on this team that are good passers, but yet, we struggle to get assists. Why? There are players on this team that have been good shooters in the past, and yet our shooting percentages, except for a rare few, are terrible. Why?

Poor shot selection is one of the main causes. But why? Why do we have players that are shooting a low percentage, going one on one, and then throwing up well defended shots? Youth isn't the answer. Lack of talent isn't the answer. Lack of coaching is the answer. You look at teams that have proven coaches, and you see teams that look like well oiled machines when they play us. They move the ball. They don't panic, their patient, and they end up getting high percentage shots. They have consistent lineups and rotations, and everyone knows whether, and when their going to play. Everyone knows their role.

Make no mistake. I'm not implying that if the Kings were coached by Phil Jackson, they'd be competing for the championship. But I'am saying that the team would certainly have more wins, and just maybe the playoffs would be a possibility. A good coach takes the talent he has, and he finds a system that will work with that particular talent. A bad coach comes in with a system, and tries to force the talent into that system regardless of whether it fits or not. Phil Jackson didn't try and make the Lakers a run and gun team, because he knew that didn't fit Shaq's abilities. When Pat Riley coached the Lakers, he had showtime with Magic and company. But the talent he had could play that way. But when he went to the Knicks, he completely changed the style of play to conform to the talent he had there.

History means something! And when you ignore it, and try to be inventive or creative, you damm well better have something that works, and works quickly, or it will be forgotten quickly along with the creator. I'll be honest with you. I've been watching professional basketball since the mid to late 50's. I've seen a lot of coaches come and go along with a lot of players. But I have no idea what Smart is doing. Even when he gets it right on occasion, he'll find a way to screw it up with a stupid rotation. To make matters worse, he'll stick to it till the bitter end, perhaps hoping for a late miracle. I've said that we have talent, but that the talent we have, doesn't really fit together well. As a result, it tends to be a dysfunctional team. But Smart does his very best to make it more dysfunctional than it needs to be. I won't even address the defensive side of the ball, because I've been too long winded as it is. All I'll say is, What Defense? There was an instance last night when Fredette, one of our top defenders, was left defending two players, of which one had the ball. Are you kidding me? Jimmer has trouble guarding one player, much less two.

Anyway, I'm hopefull next season we'll have new owners, and a house cleaning. There are about 5 players I wouldn't mind seeing in another uniform. They simply don't fit on this team. But mostly, I want to be reading about how well Smart is doing as an assistent in the D-League. Hey, maybe Mussclehead will hire him.
And our coach doesn't even have a system. Baka you mentioned in your grades that maybe the logic for bringing JJ into the game was to guard Dirk, yet we had Tyreke guarding Dirk and JJ and JT helping off their guys to triple team Dirk. And it wasn't a one off thing, we did the same thing repeatedly. If that isn't a sign that an idiot is at the helm I don't know what is. The effects of bad coaching is only amplified on this team that lacks star veterans, because the young guys will try to buy in to the system and listen to the coach, no matte how retarded his decisions are. Any real, established veteran would say **** Keith Dumb and overrule his decisions on the court.
 
#51
Being that I have been a UK Wildcats fan all my life and grew up 1 hour from Lexington, I follow UK closely. John Calipari has repeatedly stated that he will not always be at UK. Once, he went as far as to say that 10 years is enough for anyone for THAT job.

I believe he will retire after UK and work for ESPN until the NBA season arrives.
 
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#52
I would love to know how/why Travis Outlaw gets playing time? I swear he just flat out refuses to pass. Its not like were short of options either, TRob and JJ can handle that role between them.

Another thing, why did we call Honeycutt back from the D-League if we're not going to play him? I would much rather see him get those minutes that are being given to Outlaw.
 
#53
Doesn't matter who the coach is, this is not even an 8th seed playoff team.

We don't have a go to scorer. Cousins has proven to be awful when given the task to win a game. Thornton's game is screwed up. Tyreke can be defended fairly easily by sagging into the paint, which means it's up to one of our "shooters" to get the points for us.

We can't rebound at all. Place some blame on JT but place most of the blame on our SF's and Guards. Other than Tyreke, none of these guys can rebound at all. I'm sure JJ could if given the minutes but he can't shoot at all and that keeps him off the court. Thornton used to be a decent rebounder but he's given that up and now just stands behind the 3 point line all game.

The only thing we'd get a real big improvement on from another coach would be defense. I'm sure a coach who didn't have his head up his *** would stop letting our defenders sag off of hot and/or well known 3 point shooters. What gets me is how often do guys score on Hayes when iso'd one on one with him? Maybe 33% of the time? Yet we still have our guards come in and try and swat the ball away even when our best post defender is doing what we pay him to do. Either our team has the lowest basketball IQ in the league or our stupid coach is telling them to do this.

Either way I don't see this roster being a .500 team without at least half the guys changing over.
 
L

LWP777

Guest
#54
Doesn't matter who the coach is, this is not even an 8th seed playoff team.

We don't have a go to scorer. Cousins has proven to be awful when given the task to win a game. Thornton's game is screwed up. Tyreke can be defended fairly easily by sagging into the paint, which means it's up to one of our "shooters" to get the points for us.

We can't rebound at all. Place some blame on JT but place most of the blame on our SF's and Guards. Other than Tyreke, none of these guys can rebound at all. I'm sure JJ could if given the minutes but he can't shoot at all and that keeps him off the court. Thornton used to be a decent rebounder but he's given that up and now just stands behind the 3 point line all game.

The only thing we'd get a real big improvement on from another coach would be defense. I'm sure a coach who didn't have his head up his *** would stop letting our defenders sag off of hot and/or well known 3 point shooters. What gets me is how often do guys score on Hayes when iso'd one on one with him? Maybe 33% of the time? Yet we still have our guards come in and try and swat the ball away even when our best post defender is doing what we pay him to do. Either our team has the lowest basketball IQ in the league or our stupid coach is telling them to do this.

Either way I don't see this roster being a .500 team without at least half the guys changing over.
This x 1000000000
 

Mr. S£im Citrus

Doryphore of KingsFans.com
Staff member
#55
Doesn't matter who the coach is, this is not even an 8th seed playoff team.

We don't have a go to scorer. Cousins has proven to be awful when given the task to win a game. Thornton's game is screwed up. Tyreke can be defended fairly easily by sagging into the paint, which means it's up to one of our "shooters" to get the points for us.

We can't rebound at all. Place some blame on JT but place most of the blame on our SF's and Guards. Other than Tyreke, none of these guys can rebound at all. I'm sure JJ could if given the minutes but he can't shoot at all and that keeps him off the court. Thornton used to be a decent rebounder but he's given that up and now just stands behind the 3 point line all game.

The only thing we'd get a real big improvement on from another coach would be defense. I'm sure a coach who didn't have his head up his *** would stop letting our defenders sag off of hot and/or well known 3 point shooters. What gets me is how often do guys score on Hayes when iso'd one on one with him? Maybe 33% of the time? Yet we still have our guards come in and try and swat the ball away even when our best post defender is doing what we pay him to do. Either our team has the lowest basketball IQ in the league or our stupid coach is telling them to do this.

Either way I don't see this roster being a .500 team without at least half the guys changing over.
Eh, you and others insist it's not, I and others insist it is. It is completely and utterly unprovable. This team will never have a good coach because, once we get the new ownership, we will not only have a new coach, but 25-50 percent of the current players will also be gone. The 12 guys that are currently referred to as the 2012-13 Sacramento Kings have never had a good coach, and they never will, so there will never be an occasion to find out who's right.

So, I guess we'll have to settle for what we've been doing: seeing who's willing to yell the loudest.
 
L

LWP777

Guest
#57
Eh, you and others insist it's not, I and others insist it is. It is completely and utterly unprovable. This team will never have a good coach because, once we get the new ownership, we will not only have a new coach, but 25-50 percent of the current players will also be gone. The 12 guys that are currently referred to as the 2012-13 Sacramento Kings have never had a good coach, and they never will, so there will never be an occasion to find out who's right.

So, I guess we'll have to settle for what we've been doing: seeing who's willing to yell the loudest.
You make a lot of good points but when the team has new ownership and changes to a solid NBA coach there still will be a good chance that the posters who don't believe this is a good team regardless of who coaches might just be proven right. As long as the core of DMC, Reke, MT, IT, and TRob stay as the core next year, we will have an opportunity to see if they flourish under a competent coach. This is assuming the other role players will change some as well but there won't be any high powered free agents coming in.

IMO, that core will never be a serious playoff contender. We need to get lucky in the draft, make some great trades, or sign high impact free agents.
 

Mr. S£im Citrus

Doryphore of KingsFans.com
Staff member
#58
You make a lot of good points but when the team has new ownership and changes to a solid NBA coach there still will be a good chance that the posters who don't believe this is a good team regardless of who coaches might just be proven right.
The point is that there is an equally good chance that they will be proven wrong.



As long as the core of DMC, Reke, MT, IT, and TRob stay as the core next year, we will have an opportunity to see if they flourish under a competent coach. This is assuming the other role players will change some as well but there won't be any high powered free agents coming in.

IMO, that core will never be a serious playoff contender.
Only time will tell.
 

gunks

Hall of Famer
#59
Switch out one of IT or MT for a competent PG who doesnt need a lot of shots and that core has pretty beastly potential.

Everyone always blames the coach, but honestly, with the jokers the Magoofs have brought in since RA, its a valid excuse. When you're pining for the good old days of Reggie Theus, you know you have a coaching problem.
 
#60
these grades seem like they get more ridiculous by the night. Johnson a B- really? yea he got some lucky buckets but if you watch every other thing he did he deserves an F